[PASSED] Condemn North Korea

[Comradeland]

Don't let your own opinions on the writer of this condemnation, his actions, his region, or his allegiances get in the way of what is important. The North Koreans have blatantly stolen our region, a region we had plans to refound. Their attempt to justify it was under the pretense of "preventing it from falling into fascist and capitalist hands", a flimsy excuse at best. Attempts to negotiate for it's return peacefully ended abruptly when they became aware of our "anybody but Nazis is welcome" policy, which allows people THEY dislike, such as capitalists and fascist and other non-Lefitsts, to reside within our region so long as they do not cause trouble.

Learning this, they ultimately decided that our own region should not belong to us simply because we believe in freedom of speech and thought. They then proceeded to use every insult they could think of as an excuse to prevent our region from returning to us, lying to their own members about our alignment, hypocritically citing we're a "liberal" and a "homophobic fascist" region. None of which has any real basis. Before they decided to suspend negotiations, I had made it clear to them prior that we have capitalists (such as myself) and fascists in our region. Such information was apparently ignored until they needed a new excuse to prevent Slavya's return to it's rightful owners.

Actually, youll find quite a few good faith efforts to return your region to you, that is until you blatantly had fascists in your region and supported their thought. I think the best part of this is how easily its disproved simply by looking at your racist, homophobic and fascist supporting RMB. You then came to our region to complain, and were given a succinct explanation of our position on bourgeois concepts of "freedom of speech". It is hilarious to hear someone whose position is ending the rights of every oppressed minority talk about having their freedom of speech curtailed. Oh but somehow, just because of the word "freedom" we are supposed to bootlick your love of oppressive language. Not in this life. If oppression is to be ended then oppression through speech can not continue, something that your regional members wholeheartedly support and perpetuate.

To be clear, we are not some liberal washingboard where all are welcome. We have never claimed to be. We are not interested in your RMB politics, we are interested in not supporting fascism or fascist thought. Its called the "no platform policy". We dont care about you, your entire region faded from memory as soon as you stopped coming to our RMB to complain, we only care about following our policies for the development of leftism.

As for this condemnation proposal. I suppose if we get condemned by the head of the exploitative parasitic class on NS I can call it a win. NK will never bow before the capitalists insistence that it is their RIGHT to oppress people (which their entire way of life is built on, all "freedoms" they may enjoy aside). We will always be at the forefront of the revolutionary struggle on NS against the forces of the reaction and the right.

[Godless Munky]

Someone might as well just copy & paste this proposal and find & replace NK with Liberatem & Slavya with The Cooperative Union.

[Sklavinia]

Actually, youll find quite a few good faith efforts to return your region to you, that is until you blatantly had fascists in your region and supported their thought.

First off, there weren't any "good faith efforts", so don't kid yourself. From the very beginning, you played the "oh, well, we'll have to talk about it" card. Not once did you say anything that would give us the impression of good faith. We have always had fascists in our region, two. Just two. Nothing more. Neither of which have made attempts to convert anyone to their train of thought. They have not once shown any behavior that would be a threat to the region, and although we do allow them to reside here, we do not support their thought. We do not support any thought. We have never supported any thought. Just because we have fascists in our region, a measly two by the way, one of which isn't even in the region at the moment, which have caused no trouble whatsoever, does not mean we endorse fascism. Not to mention you had prior knowledge of fascist membership before you decided to cease negotiations.

I think the best part of this is how easily its disproved simply by looking at your racist, homophobic and fascist supporting RMB.

You had a puppet in our region for less than a day, what would you possibly know about our region's RMB? From the very moment you got there, to the moment you left, not once were there any cases of racism. The 'homophobia' excuse is flimsy at best since only one member made a seemingly homophobic post, which was in fact a joke. We are not racist nor homophobic, and in fact, we do have a member who is openly homosexual, who has also served as our delegate for a short period of time. The only evidence of "fascist support" was from one member, who was a fascist, and who took offense from your anti-fascist comments. He had the right to call you out on your beliefs as you did his.

You then came to our region to complain, and were given a succinct explanation of our position on bourgeois concepts of "freedom of speech".

Regardless of your position, it is not your job to criticize our position on it. Oh, and there is nothing bourgeois about Freedom of Speech. It has no relation to the bourgeois or Capitalism and never has. Only the most civilized people would actually allow their opposition to speak out against them, sorry if the concept is so foreign to you.

It is hilarious to hear someone whose position is ending the rights of every oppressed minority talk about having their freedom of speech curtailed.

Your ignorance to my beliefs is unsurprising. I believe in equality and liberty for all. If you honestly believe that because I believe in a free market, that I must believe in oppression, you clearly no nothing of Capitalism at all.

Oh but somehow, just because of the word "freedom" we are supposed to bootlick your love of oppressive language.

There is no such thing as "oppressive language", and I now have doubts you even know the proper definition of oppression. I urge you to discover it's proper meaning before you continue to use the word incorrectly.

Not in this life. If oppression is to be ended then oppression through speech can not continue, something that your regional members wholeheartedly support and perpetuate.

Unfounded accusations with no proof. You cannot oppress someone through speech, so I don't know what it is you're calling "oppressive speech". Please, learn the proper definition of "oppression".

To be clear, we are not some liberal washingboard where all are welcome.

Neither are we. We are not liberal, nor do we allow everyone. Racists, homophobes, trolls, and Nazis are banjected on sight.

We have never claimed to be.

Nor have we.

We are not interested in your RMB politics, we are interested in not supporting fascism or fascist thought.

Good for you. Too bad we don't support either. Tolerance and support are two different words you should learn to distinguish.

Its called the "no platform policy". We dont care about you, your entire region faded from memory as soon as you stopped coming to our RMB to complain, we only care about following our policies for the development of leftism.

Yeah, and I don't care about you, your region, or your beliefs. I want our region back.

As for this condemnation proposal. I suppose if we get condemned by the head of the exploitative parasitic class on NS I can call it a win. NK will never bow before the capitalists insistence that it is their RIGHT to oppress people (which their entire way of life is built on, all "freedoms" they may enjoy aside). We will always be at the forefront of the revolutionary struggle on NS against the forces of the reaction and the right.

Cut the propaganda talk. I don't give a damn about your delusional ideas of how capitalism works. I want our region back in our hands. You can go on being the "forefront of the revolutionary struggle on NS against the forces of the reaction and the right". I really could care less. I just want what you stole returned to us. I didn't choose to make us enemies, you did that, and it's your fault. If you had simply returned our region, we could've gone our separate ways, and hopefully never meet again. I would've preferred that. But no, you had to go on this 'holier than thou' crusade against us simply because we tolerate people of different belief systems so long as they do not offend others in the process.

Oppression isn't something limited to specific ideologies or philosophies, it's a practice. A practice that all can utilize, a practice you apparently endorse even thought you claim to fight it. Your restrictions on free speech and thought are evidenced of your oppressive nature, and your theft our region is evidence of your imperialistic nature, both of which you claim to oppose.

Your hypocrisy is amusing, but I'm done playing games. Give us our region back.

[Kranstentistan]

Until the North Koreans have brought up sizable evidence to support their claims, I am for this resolution.

EDIT: Scratch that, NK shouldn't be raiding a region for their beliefs period.

[Zenya]

This is a beautiful thing

I'll support it.

[Central Asian Republics]

This is a beautiful thing

I'll support it.

I don't, the OP is from Libertatem, a raider region that refounded The Cooperative Union, our former home. So it's very hypocritical to condemn a region for refounding another region under it's rule while doing the same thing. If anything, Libertatem should be condemned.

[The imperial canadian dutchy]

100% This, Not giving our Region back, only for the fact that I am Fascist is a dick move by the Pseudo-Communists in NK,

[DWAsnia]

A few leaps in logic here guys:

1) A condemn won't do anything. It is just a badge. No more, no less.

2) The draft is a steaming pile of illegal. Read the stickies of the SC before drafting something please.

[Republic of Minerva]

I'd like a legality check, as I am having trouble seeing what you probably see. The terms I used have no references to the real world or "the game," or anything of that nature.

Edit: Skav was spot on.

I don't, the OP is from Libertatem, a raider region that refounded The Cooperative Union, our former home. So it's very hypocritical to condemn a region for refounding another region under it's rule while doing the same thing. If anything, Libertatem should be condemned.

Off topic. This is not about me, I am acting as an independent agent here sympathetic to Slavija.

[Central Asian Republics]

I'd like a legality check, as I am having trouble seeing what you probably see. The terms I used have no references to the real world or "the game," or anything of that nature.

The Security Council,

UNDERSTANDING that North Korea is a region dedicated to the principles of "Anti-Imperialism, Anti-Colonialism, [and] Self Determination,”

ACKNOWLEDGING North Korea’s position of anti-fascism, and it’s attempt to combat fascism has turned it into a large empire spanning over a thousand regions indirectly connected to it, blocking others from using those region’s name merely in the name of “anti-fascism,”

AWARE of North Korea’s recent refounding of Slavya, a long time regional community that once had up to 150 nations, had denied that region’s previous founder a chance to refound the region, securing it under their control,

APPALLED that North Korea’s sole motivation in keeping Slavya is due to their belief that freedom of speech and association shouldn’t apply to Slavyans, and that their ideas of what freedom is must be imposed on other regions under the guise of anti-fascism,

BELIEVING that by occupying Slavya, North Korea violates the principles that they claim they are dedicated to,

Hereby CONDEMNS North Korea.

Rought draft #2, actually. First attempt of drafting a condemnation, so if you have any suggestions, I'd love to hear them.

"Refound" is considered a game term.

[Republic of Minerva]

I'd like a legality check, as I am having trouble seeing what you probably see. The terms I used have no references to the real world or "the game," or anything of that nature.

The Security Council,

UNDERSTANDING that North Korea is a region dedicated to the principles of "Anti-Imperialism, Anti-Colonialism, [and] Self Determination,”

ACKNOWLEDGING North Korea’s position of anti-fascism, and it’s attempt to combat fascism has turned it into a large empire spanning over a thousand regions indirectly connected to it, blocking others from using those region’s name merely in the name of “anti-fascism,”

AWARE of North Korea’s recent refounding of Slavya, a long time regional community that once had up to 150 nations, had denied that region’s previous founder a chance to refound the region, securing it under their control,

APPALLED that North Korea’s sole motivation in keeping Slavya is due to their belief that freedom of speech and association shouldn’t apply to Slavyans, and that their ideas of what freedom is must be imposed on other regions under the guise of anti-fascism,

BELIEVING that by occupying Slavya, North Korea violates the principles that they claim they are dedicated to,

Hereby CONDEMNS North Korea.

Rought draft #2, actually. First attempt of drafting a condemnation, so if you have any suggestions, I'd love to hear them.

"Refound" is considered a game term.

I recall some game terms, like refounding and password, to be legal under some circumstances. Unless I am mistaken.

See "Repeal 'Liberate Wonderful Paradise.'"

[Central Asian Republics]

I recall some game terms, like refounding and password, to be legal under some circumstances. Unless I am mistaken.

See "Repeal 'Liberate Wonderful Paradise.'"

Where's the term "refound"?

[Republic of Minerva]

I recall some game terms, like refounding and password, to be legal under some circumstances. Unless I am mistaken.

See "Repeal 'Liberate Wonderful Paradise.'"

Where's the term "refound"?

"RECOGNIZING that Security Council Resolution #48 was intended to prevent Wonderful Paradise from being refounded by invaders from NAZI EUROPE,"

[Kalifati Arab shqiptar]

screw you dude

Knock it off.

sorry but this hipocrisy just make me rage

[Zenya]

sorry but this hipocrisy just make me rage

yeah i no lik hippocrats, dey mak me so mad

[Kalifati Arab shqiptar]

sorry but this hipocrisy just make me rage

yeah i no lik hippocrats, dey mak me so mad

not sure if an attempted sarcasm or true

[Kranstentistan]

The Security Council,

UNDERSTANDING that North Korea is a region dedicated to the principles of "Anti-Imperialism, Anti-Colonialism, [and] Self Determination,”

ACKNOWLEDGING North Korea’s position of anti-fascism, and it’s attempt to combat fascism has turned it into a large empire spanning over a thousand regions indirectly connected to it, blocking others from using those region’s name merely in the name of “anti-fascism,”

AWARE of North Korea’s recent refounding of Slavya, a long time regional community that once had up to 150 nations, had denied that region’s previous founder a chance to refound the region, securing it under their control,

APPALLED that North Korea’s sole motivation in keeping Slavya is due to their belief that freedom of speech and association shouldn’t apply to Slavyans, and that their ideas of what freedom is must be imposed on other regions under the guise of anti-fascism,

BELIEVING that by occupying Slavya, North Korea violates the principles that they claim they are dedicated to,

Hereby CONDEMNS North Korea.

Rought draft #2, actually. First attempt of drafting a condemnation, so if you have any suggestions, I'd love to hear them.

so you want to condemn a region just because you don't like communism?, screw you dude

Quite the opposite. North Korea didn't like that there was some questionable members within Slavya, so they attacked. They were the crusaders in this case. They were the ones enforcing their ideology against one's will. And unless any of you provide some solid evidence to the contrary, that's what I'm sticking to.

[Sedgistan]

"Refound" is considered a game term.

"Refound" is not an illegal term for SC proposals.

[Sedgistan]

sorry but this hipocrisy just make me rage

yeah i no lik hippocrats, dey mak me so mad

Cut it out.

[Zenya]

Cut it out.

*salutes* Will do.

[Comradeland]

Ill just cut out everything above this and boil it down to I think our primary disagreement.

There is no such thing as "oppressive language", and I now have doubts you even know the proper definition of oppression. I urge you to discover it's proper meaning before you continue to use the word incorrectly.

This is an absolutely hilarious notion that has no basis whatsoever in reality. Language has always been an integral part of oppression, the use of derogatory slurs is used to belittle and dehumanize people the world over. During the slave era of the United States, blacks were labeled with all manners of racial slurs which were always used as part of a system of oppression. Likewise, your continued support and propagation of these words reinforces social attitudes that it is acceptable.

I say "bourgeois free speech" not saying that free speech IS bourgeois, but that your concept of free speech has bourgeois class character. You speak from a position of privilege, using slurs as jokes while in reality the fact that you're complaining about your free speech when you're spouting chauvinist garbage (all of which means the reduction of freedom for real people in the real world while you continue to live your most probably privileged life) is laughable.

You keep saying "free speech" without ever asking yourself the question, whose free speech, and for whom? There is no freedom and no speech that is outside of class struggle. To demand the freedom of the oppressed and global majority is to demand the removal of the freedom of the oppressor to oppress; to demand the free expression of the oppressed classes is to also demand the suppression of reactionary anti-person "free" expression.

This question should force us to realize that the liberal terms of free speech are already loaded. Despite the supposed universality of this "greatest good", despite all the claims about a beautiful marketplace of ideas, the speech that is valorized and that has the most autonomy and hegemony in this society is the speech that amounts to the ruling ideas of the ruling class. And if this speech has incorporated some ideas of equality and anti-chauvinism it is because of real and concrete struggles to force this speech into public consciousness––not because someone from an oppressed minority went into a chauvinist court one day, said "hey my free speech is being violated", and was rubber-stamped to free expression because of the bloody First Amendment.

Your hypocrisy is amusing, but I'm done playing games. Give us our region back.

I think Ive seen you say this 3 or 4 times now. Whenever it becomes true maybe you will finally be on our level, we haven't been playing games since the beginning.

[Kranstentistan]

Ill just cut out everything above this and boil it down to I think our primary disagreement.

There is no such thing as "oppressive language", and I now have doubts you even know the proper definition of oppression. I urge you to discover it's proper meaning before you continue to use the word incorrectly.

This is an absolutely hilarious notion that has no basis whatsoever in reality. Language has always been an integral part of oppression, the use of derogatory slurs is used to belittle and dehumanize people the world over. During the slave era of the United States, blacks were labeled with all manners of racial slurs which were always used as part of a system of oppression. Likewise, your continued support and propagation of these words reinforces social attitudes that it is acceptable.

I say "bourgeois free speech" not saying that free speech IS bourgeois, but that your concept of free speech has bourgeois class character. You speak from a position of privilege, using slurs as jokes while in reality the fact that you're complaining about your free speech when you're spouting chauvinist garbage (all of which means the reduction of freedom for real people in the real world while you continue to live your most probably privileged life) is laughable.

You keep saying "free speech" without ever asking yourself the question, whose free speech, and for whom? There is no freedom and no speech that is outside of class struggle. To demand the freedom of the oppressed and global majority is to demand the removal of the freedom of the oppressor to oppress; to demand the free expression of the oppressed classes is to also demand the suppression of reactionary anti-person "free" expression.

This question should force us to realize that the liberal terms of free speech are already loaded. Despite the supposed universality of this "greatest good", despite all the claims about a beautiful marketplace of ideas, the speech that is valorized and that has the most autonomy and hegemony in this society is the speech that amounts to the ruling ideas of the ruling class. And if this speech has incorporated some ideas of equality and anti-chauvinism it is because of real and concrete struggles to force this speech into public consciousness––not because someone from an oppressed minority went into a chauvinist court one day, said "hey my free speech is being violated", and was rubber-stamped to free expression because of the bloody First Amendment.

Your hypocrisy is amusing, but I'm done playing games. Give us our region back.

I think Ive seen you say this 3 or 4 times now. Whenever it becomes true maybe you will finally be on our level, we haven't been playing games since the beginning.

Enough with this bullshit talk about "Oppressive Language". You can make a freaking lecture out of that, but it would mean jack shit. You destroyed a region because they had questionable members. There is literally nothing you can do justify what your region did. It was an ideologically fueled attack, and North Korea will be shunned for it.

[Godless Munky]

Racists & homophobes get what they get & Slavya got what it got. BooHoo for them.

[Kranstentistan]

Racists & homophobes get what they get & Slavya got what it got. BooHoo for them.

Even though there's no evidence suggesting that Slavya officially supported those things.

[Sklavinia]

so you want to condemn a region just because you don't like communism?, screw you dude

Quite the opposite. North Korea didn't like that there was some questionable members within Slavya, so they attacked. They were the crusaders in this case. They were the ones enforcing their ideology against one's will. And unless any of you provide some solid evidence to the contrary, that's what I'm sticking to.

Well considering there is no evidence to the contrary, thanks for the support!

Ill just cut out everything above this and boil it down to I think our primary disagreement.

There is no such thing as "oppressive language", and I now have doubts you even know the proper definition of oppression. I urge you to discover it's proper meaning before you continue to use the word incorrectly.

This is an absolutely hilarious notion that has no basis whatsoever in reality. Language has always been an integral part of oppression, the use of derogatory slurs is used to belittle and dehumanize people the world over. During the slave era of the United States, blacks were labeled with all manners of racial slurs which were always used as part of a system of oppression. Likewise, your continued support and propagation of these words reinforces social attitudes that it is acceptable.

I say "bourgeois free speech" not saying that free speech IS bourgeois, but that your concept of free speech has bourgeois class character. You speak from a position of privilege, using slurs as jokes while in reality the fact that you're complaining about your free speech when you're spouting chauvinist garbage (all of which means the reduction of freedom for real people in the real world while you continue to live your most probably privileged life) is laughable.

You keep saying "free speech" without ever asking yourself the question, whose free speech, and for whom? There is no freedom and no speech that is outside of class struggle. To demand the freedom of the oppressed and global majority is to demand the removal of the freedom of the oppressor to oppress; to demand the free expression of the oppressed classes is to also demand the suppression of reactionary anti-person "free" expression.

This question should force us to realize that the liberal terms of free speech are already loaded. Despite the supposed universality of this "greatest good", despite all the claims about a beautiful marketplace of ideas, the speech that is valorized and that has the most autonomy and hegemony in this society is the speech that amounts to the ruling ideas of the ruling class. And if this speech has incorporated some ideas of equality and anti-chauvinism it is because of real and concrete struggles to force this speech into public consciousness––not because someone from an oppressed minority went into a chauvinist court one day, said "hey my free speech is being violated", and was rubber-stamped to free expression because of the bloody First Amendment.

Your hypocrisy is amusing, but I'm done playing games. Give us our region back.

I think Ive seen you say this 3 or 4 times now. Whenever it becomes true maybe you will finally be on our level, we haven't been playing games since the beginning.

Oppression is when you use power and authority in an cruel and unjust way. Therefor, language cannot be oppressive, as language does not provide any power or authority. Words are words, they can't physically do anything to anyone, and thus cannot be oppressive. They are words, not actions. And I'd also like to point out how no racial slurs or anything of the like were used. We do not allow such things on our RMB.

And cut this revolutionary, class-struggle, "for the people!" attitude. Your Socialist rhetoric is not making your case. We're not debating politics. I don't care about your politics. I don't care about your beliefs. You do not have the right to force yours on us. And your idea that I have some sort of privilege is ridiculously wrong in so many ways. Not once have I ever used any kind of slurs, yet to claim I do, with no evidence of such.

Everything you've said, you cannot back up, because you like the proper evidence to. We do not allow our members to utilize slurs on the RMB and never have. The closest things to slurs YOU saw was nothing but dark humor, which many of us happen to enjoy. Maybe you don't think dark humor is good humor, but that's irrelevant. We don't allow our members to have of prejudices of any kind, and they never have. We've only had one member who was homophobic in nature, a Socialist by the way, who was also a troll and was subsequently banned from the region on several occasions. None of our permanent members hold any kind of prejudice against anyone, regardless of what you may think. At times, our jokes and banter can be borderline to the point they may seem offensive, but I can assure you that none of our members have ever made any attempts to offend any group of people.

We know exactly when the line has been crossed, and we correct the problem when it has been. But do not dare to even suggest that any of us hold any kind of hatred, disgust, fear, or dislike of any group of people, because that is entirely inaccurate. We are not racists nor homophobes, and you know this, yet you fabricate these claims in an attempt to justify our regions' theft. You're no better than vigilantes who kill people that belong in jail.

Oh, and there is nothing "liberal" about free speech. Free speech has existed long before liberalism.

Racists & homophobes get what they get & Slavya got what it got. BooHoo for them.

Really? Is that what you think? Because if you had bothered to do any research, or just paid proper attention to anything at all, you'd know that we are not racist nor homophobic. Maybe you should actually bother to look into this issue more instead of just looking at a thread and siding with the opposition.