[PASSED] Anti-Counterfeiting Pact

[The Dark Star Republic]

I... don't actually see a formal definition of counterfeiting in the proposal?

The grossly engorged Ms. Chinmusic responds:

"'Understanding', 'interpretation', whatever word you like then rather than definition. My point is the scope of the proposal seems limited*, although that's not necessarily a problem: it's just that they have chosen to enumerate one specific aspect of counter-counterfeiting(?) operations (destroying fake currency) but not anything else."

~ Daisy Chinmusic

* It's also worth noting RL international law on this subject does explicitly reference all the variations Daisy mentioned - though I won't have her mention that in-character for fear of being set upon by a talking pot plant urging me to be more realistic.

[Separatist Peoples]

"New draft is up to assuage the concerns of the Dark Star Republic and put the kibosh on the issue being raised by Ms. Chinmusic and Ambassador Zelweke."

[The Dark Star Republic]

OOC: Sorry to get so anal about category stuff, which is deeply boring, but even though I do support changing this to International Security, I really don't think it should be anything more than Mild. It's covering a fairly narrow area of policing.

Otherwise, we will support the present draft.

[Separatist Peoples]

OOC: Sorry to get so anal about category stuff, which is deeply boring, but even though I do support changing this to International Security, I really don't think it should be anything more than Mild. It's covering a fairly narrow area of policing.

Otherwise, we will support the present draft.

OOC: No worries, I agree. I forgot about the strength. I thought that, for Free Trade, it would be significant, but for IS, it doesn't look so strong. Will adjust.

[Separatist Peoples]

"So, definitely settled on IS as the category. Comments are welcome, since in starting to feel like this is almost submission-worthy."

[Elke and Elba]

Ambassador Norrland looks slightly worried.

"Just saying... Do you think WANA could be expanded to actually include 'teaching' member states to include anti-counterfeiting features on their legal tender? It might not fall under the provision of this bill but it makes little sense trying to cure a problem without having preventive measures in place. After all, they always say prevention is better than cure."

[Separatist Peoples]

Ambassador Norrland looks slightly worried.

"Just saying... Do you think WANA could be expanded to actually include 'teaching' member states to include anti-counterfeiting features on their legal tender? It might not fall under the provision of this bill but it makes little sense trying to cure a problem without having preventive measures in place. After all, they always say prevention is better than cure."

"Indeed. I thought that may fall under the nonbinding evaluation, instead of specifically enumerating it, though if that doesn't make sense, I'll be happy to reconsider."

[Separatist Peoples]

"So, after a quick review of the debate's minutes, I think I'm caught up on suggestions and comments. I really want to take advantage of the lull to submit this, to reduce the need for a delegate campaign. Thoughts?"

[The Dark Star Republic]

OOC: In my experience Friday isn't a great day for submission as approvals drop off over the weekend, but that may no longer be the case; my being out of date is pretty well documented. I would still suggest waiting till Monday, though - but I can't see any reason to wait longer than that, no serious objections have been mounted.

[Separatist Peoples]

OOC: In my experience Friday isn't a great day for submission as approvals drop off over the weekend, but that may no longer be the case; my being out of date is pretty well documented. I would still suggest waiting till Monday, though - but I can't see any reason to wait longer than that, no serious objections have been mounted.

OOC: that's still pretty true. I was thinking of a Saturday submission, but the weekend activity is unpredictable. I'll see what it's like tomorrow, and, if it's not exactly thriving with activity, I'll bump it to Monday. I'm definitely banking on bored delegates to negate the need for a proper campaign!

[Defwa]

Not sure if it even matters at this point. With the things almost making quorum, I think even the serious (non rubber stamp) delegates are itching to vote on something.

[Separatist Peoples]

"Submitted. To save face if this doesn't make quorum without a campaign, I'm calling this a test run."

Edit: "Also, the poll was unnecessary now, as it was tied and I've already submitted it, so I made a silly replacement. Enjoy."

[Applebania]

OOC: Approved.

[Sierra Lyricalia]

"Also, the poll was unnecessary now, as it was tied and I've already submitted it, so I made a silly replacement. Enjoy."

Break a leg, Mr. Bell.

Also. Mmmm... we talking cheddar and leftovers carved right off the bone, or something... pre-sliced ?

[The Dark Star Republic]

OOC: Just noticed the poll. I'll take a croque-monsieur.

This has picked up approvals quite nicely through its first update. Good luck!

[Separatist Peoples]

Also. Mmmm... we talking cheddar and leftovers carved right off the bone, or something... pre-sliced ?

"I always prefered pre-sliced, as it makes preparation simpler, and my family never ended up with leftovers for long...Mama Bell didn't raise no picky eaters."

OOC: Just noticed the poll. I'll take a croque-monsieur.

This has picked up approvals quite nicely through its first update. Good luck!

OOC: Many thanks!

[The Dark Star Republic]

Have you TGed for this? If not, then the uptick in proposals given the rather unsexy subject matter is either very impressive, or indicative that delegates are currently very thirsty for something to vote on.

[Bananaistan]

Bananaistan will support this but we would note a possible loophole for belligerent governments outside of declared wars. A member state is barred from releasing counterfeited foreign currency where they have the intention of releasing it as legal tender. It is impossible for country A to release legal tender of country B where there is no formal agreement between the two countries to allow country A to do so. A belligerent country A could, under the terms of the proposal, release counterfeited country B currency with the intention that a reasonable person would think it is legal tender, but they would never release it as legal tender, because it is impossible for them to do so.

Obviously this is rather extreme verbal wrangling which the vast majority of reasonable nations would not engage in but there will always be some who would.

OOC: I suppose the point I'm trying to make is that Mexico could have a really sophisticated printing apparatus that prints counterfeit US dollar notes that are indistinguishable from genuine US dollar notes. Mexico then releases theses counterfeit US dollar notes. However, these notes are never released as legal tender as it is not within the ability, de facto or de jure, of the Mexican government to release American legal tender.

[Separatist Peoples]

Have you TGed for this? If not, then the uptick in proposals given the rather unsexy subject matter is either very impressive, or indicative that delegates are currently very thirsty for something to vote on.

OOC: I telegramed a bit for this just before last nights update when I noticed that I needed only 25 or so more endorsements. I figured I was that close, I may as well go for it! It was an experiment: I targeted New Delegates to see if I could basically rubber stamp it to queue.

Bananaistan will support this but we would note a possible loophole for belligerent governments outside of declared wars. A member state is barred from releasing counterfeited foreign currency where they have the intention of releasing it as legal tender. It is impossible for country A to release legal tender of country B where there is no formal agreement between the two countries to allow country A to do so. A belligerent country A could, under the terms of the proposal, release counterfeited country B currency with the intention that a reasonable person would think it is legal tender, but they would never release it as legal tender, because it is impossible for them to do so.

Obviously this is rather extreme verbal wrangling which the vast majority of reasonable nations would not engage in but there will always be some who would.

OOC: I suppose the point I'm trying to make is that Mexico could have a really sophisticated printing apparatus that prints counterfeit US dollar notes that are indistinguishable from genuine US dollar notes. Mexico then releases theses counterfeit US dollar notes. However, these notes are never released as legal tender as it is not within the ability, de facto or de jure, of the Mexican government to release American legal tender.

"That would be some serious legal wrangling indeed. Unfortunately, there isn't much way to stop that kind of mental gymnastics. So long as the money is released in a way so as to defraud a member state, it should be illegal. The gaps are really there to protect barter systems, and the hope is that WANA and individual members will work to cover any gaps. It isn't ideal, but I really don't know a better way to close those loopholes without screwing those nations with non-traditional currency. Your support is, however, greatly appreciated!"

[Defwa]

I've TGed my own delegate. I don't think it will be necessary, but doesn't hurt to try.

[Separatist Peoples]

"Twice in a row, updates have bumped up the Approval requirement on me. It's gone from 68 to 70. And my proposal just made it to 69. I should have started a pool on this, I'd be flush if I was a bookie!"

[Defwa]

"Twice in a row, updates have bumped up the Approval requirement on me. It's gone from 68 to 70. And my proposal just made it to 69. I should have started a pool on this, I'd be flush if I was a bookie!"

I'll TG someone else. We're going to get this through.

[Separatist Peoples]

"Twice in a row, updates have bumped up the Approval requirement on me. It's gone from 68 to 70. And my proposal just made it to 69. I should have started a pool on this, I'd be flush if I was a bookie!"

I'll TG someone else. We're going to get this through.

"Your dedication is incredibly flattering, Angela, but I wouldn't worry too much. 24 hours for some delegate to get bored and rubber-stamp my proposal is like giving Homer Simpson a hour to drink a beer."

[Schutzenphalia and West Ruhntuhnkuhnland]

Off topic: when I referenced giving up my repeal because it hadn't gained many approvals, even though I didn't run a campaign, I had this proposal in mind. Even before you started campaigning it gained approvals much more quickly. So it was a useful comparison metric.

On topic: in Schutzenphalia and West Ruhntuhnkuhnland, a grilled cheese and ham sandwich is known as a schunzweghollschederbrinkskußenzlaufschlagerröschingsbliedleinerzaugetranzwinklbüß. It is quite tasty.

[HMS Unicorn]

Following as usual the running tally of The North Pacific's forum poll, I have cast our early regional vote in support of this resolution.