[PASSED] Individual Working Freedoms II

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

OOC: Not talking about leaving any WA members out. But say we arranged some kind of defense compact (not a legal or plausible example) that made it so WA nations could not war with eachother, always had to fly to the defense of other members, and so on. Nations that defy the WA through embassy puppets and the like would be left out from such defense.

EDIT: unless you mean the puppeteers couldn't benefit because they are not in the WA, in which case, bravo. It's nice to see lefties embrace free trade and international security for a change.

[Separatist Peoples]

Tiny puppets that don't have much to trade in the first place wouldn't profit much from such resolutions anyway. Also, all resolutions must apply to all members equally, so I have no idea how you'd go about it legally.

OOC: Not talking about leaving any WA members out. But say we arranged some kind of defense compact (not a legal or plausible example) that made it so WA nations could not war with eachother, always had to fly to the defense of other members, and so on. Nations that defy the WA through embassy puppets and the like would be left out from such defense. The embassy puppet would be guarded but that doesn't really mean anything.
I'd love to do something similar in my debris proposal but stamping out the loop holes could be troublesome

OOC: anything legal you come up with would likely be sunk by the fact that nonmembers are traditionally able to access the committees and services of the WA so long as they are compliant with the resolution's requirements. Besides, plenty of players RP compliance while keeping separate puppets. Ara and I are two such players. Getting peeved at the bad apples and punishing the happy majority is silly.

[Gruenberg]

I agree it's an interesting idea; I don't agree it's the subject for this thread.

[Defwa]

I agree it's an interesting idea; I don't agree it's the subject for this thread.

OOC okay okay, we will reconvene in 29 hours

[Jakuso]

Chester, Chester, Chester. I thank you for showing me this on the Assembly records, but just like you don't care as to why I'm voting against, I don't see why I need to know what your motives are. But seriously, thank you.

Now what I'll say is that just because this benefits one nation doesn't mean it'll benefit another. In Yakus' case, this certainly wouldn't benefit us. Because we have laws that try to give employers and employees virtually equal and fair rights at work. Just some of the remnants of the late General Lesscott's Democratic Socialist policies that were still much in force in the 1980s when Aladros Tamin took over as Governor-General, but thanks the the Liberal Party they have been well reformed to support a growing and more prosperous Yakusan economy.

And whilst they're at it, the Yakusan Federal Government are working on legislature to allow them a bit more autonomy from the WA; we are trying to make it easier for us to adapt our own laws around some resolutions of course, but some resolutions that we can't reallyu follow then we shall have to veto officially in parliament or just amend to our needs.

"I like how you gloss over entirely your incorrect assumption that my nation was socialist and tendered no correction or response. It fits your profile, ambassador. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the WA gnomes force you to change your laws. They sneak in and change them. It's unavoidable. Thus why we love loopholes so much here."

IMMIGRANTS?!?! Illegal access to our nation! What poppycock! But we do have our own laws that we make and expect our people to follow. Oh, and by the way, I couldn't care less if you are a socialist nation, it doesn't affect me so why should I be worried about that? Just because the political favour in Yakus has swung largely to the right doesn't mean we hate socialist nations...
But still against this resolution. It doesn't approve with us back home.

[Separatist Peoples]

IMMIGRANTS?!?! Illegal access to our nation! What poppycock! But we do have our own laws that we make and expect our people to follow. Oh, and by the way, I couldn't care less if you are a socialist nation, it doesn't affect me so why should I be worried about that? Just because the political favour in Yakus has swung largely to the right doesn't mean we hate socialist nations...
But still against this resolution. It doesn't approve with us back home.

"I doubt anybody wants to live in Jakuso enough to break the law to get there, but that's neither here nor there. The gnomes change the laws. That's why you get a telegram notifying you that your nation has been brought into compliance. The gnomes change your laws. It's unavoidable. Compliance is mandatory while in the WA. You give up some sovereignty by joining the WA. And I'm not sure what you're getting at, ambassador, with the socialist bits...I was just correcting your poor assumption. While I hardly expect an actual apology or diplomatic response from you, I am surprised you'd struggle this much with the concept."

OOC: RP'd noncompliance is a thing, but it's considered very much in poor taste to RP outright noncompliance. In fact, people who trumpet it too much have been smacked by mods. Using "creative compliance", or alternate understandings of the text, loopholes, etc, to avoid compliance is considered the best way to Rp noncompliance, as it is creative and often amusing. Alternatively, you can refuse to comply and stay very quiet about it. Just a suggestion.

[Jakuso]

IMMIGRANTS?!?! Illegal access to our nation! What poppycock! But we do have our own laws that we make and expect our people to follow. Oh, and by the way, I couldn't care less if you are a socialist nation, it doesn't affect me so why should I be worried about that? Just because the political favour in Yakus has swung largely to the right doesn't mean we hate socialist nations...
But still against this resolution. It doesn't approve with us back home.

"I doubt anybody wants to live in Jakuso enough to break the law to get there, but that's neither here nor there. The gnomes change the laws. That's why you get a telegram notifying you that your nation has been brought into compliance. The gnomes change your laws. It's unavoidable. Compliance is mandatory while in the WA. You give up some sovereignty by joining the WA. And I'm not sure what you're getting at, ambassador, with the socialist bits...I was just correcting your poor assumption. While I hardly expect an actual apology or diplomatic response from you, I am surprised you'd struggle this much with the concept."

OOC: RP'd noncompliance is a thing, but it's considered very much in poor taste to RP outright noncompliance. In fact, people who trumpet it too much have been smacked by mods. Using "creative compliance", or alternate understandings of the text, loopholes, etc, to avoid compliance is considered the best way to Rp noncompliance, as it is creative and often amusing. Alternatively, you can refuse to comply and stay very quiet about it. Just a suggestion.

That's insulting and wrong; we have an immigration problem so please, learn your facts before you speak. And the Federal Government can bring in laws to veto/amend these resolutions IF they are deemed to have a serious effect on our nation. As I have always said, the WA should focus on international matters, not sovereign ones. But I know you'll probably tell me "ahh no, you've given away your sovereignty in joining" well yes I know that, and that's something that my party, the People's Voice would want to change.

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

If you want more autonomy, resign from the WA. Heck, take advantage of the popular method of making your WA mission a "sovereign state" and leave the rest of your nation outside the WA if you want to insulate yourself from the effects of WA laws. But it would be very laughable indeed if you did so over the implementation of this law. It practically doesn't allow you to do anything, and exists solely as a legislative roadblack to prevent more intrusive laws from passing. This has already been explained, time and again, throughout this debate, and if diplomats cannot grasp the simple fact that this is just meaningless fluff to stave off needless micromanagement of national workweek laws, then we don't know what to tell them.

[Defwa]

"I doubt anybody wants to live in Jakuso enough to break the law to get there, but that's neither here nor there. The gnomes change the laws. That's why you get a telegram notifying you that your nation has been brought into compliance. The gnomes change your laws. It's unavoidable. Compliance is mandatory while in the WA. You give up some sovereignty by joining the WA. And I'm not sure what you're getting at, ambassador, with the socialist bits...I was just correcting your poor assumption. While I hardly expect an actual apology or diplomatic response from you, I am surprised you'd struggle this much with the concept."

OOC: RP'd noncompliance is a thing, but it's considered very much in poor taste to RP outright noncompliance. In fact, people who trumpet it too much have been smacked by mods. Using "creative compliance", or alternate understandings of the text, loopholes, etc, to avoid compliance is considered the best way to Rp noncompliance, as it is creative and often amusing. Alternatively, you can refuse to comply and stay very quiet about it. Just a suggestion.

That's insulting and wrong; we have an immigration problem so please, learn your facts before you speak. And the Federal Government can bring in laws to veto/amend these resolutions IF they are deemed to have a serious effect on our nation. As I have always said, the WA should focus on international matters, not sovereign ones. But I know you'll probably tell me "ahh no, you've given away your sovereignty in joining" well yes I know that, and that's something that my party, the People's Voice would want to change.

OOC: If you don't have a factbook about your immigrant 'problem' how is anyone else supposed to know about it?
No, I'm afraid you can't veto WA resolutions if you are a WA nation. WA nations are required to have their laws in full compliance at all times as a consequence of their membership. I do not know why this is so difficult for you to understand. You can't argue it, its undeniable fact that when a resolution passes, your nation is brought into compliance. Its in the FAQ, its in the telegram you get every single time.

[Separatist Peoples]

That's insulting and wrong; we have an immigration problem so please, learn your facts before you speak. And the Federal Government can bring in laws to veto/amend these resolutions IF they are deemed to have a serious effect on our nation. As I have always said, the WA should focus on international matters, not sovereign ones. But I know you'll probably tell me "ahh no, you've given away your sovereignty in joining" well yes I know that, and that's something that my party, the People's Voice would want to change.

"You're mixing up fact and opinion, which is a shocker. I never claimed that Jakuso lacks willing immigrants, just that I'm surprised any are willing to live there. To simplify a complex topic, governments cannot veto or amend WA resolutions. Resolutions are binding as-is. What you have "always said" is largely irrelevant, because you seem to have a fantastical view of how the WA works."

OOC: From the FAQs...

The World Assembly is the world's governing body. It's your chance to mold the world to your vision, by voting for resolutions you like and scuttling the rest. However, it's a double-edged sword, because your nation will be affected by any resolutions that pass. (Unfortunately you can't obey the resolutions you like and ignore the rest, like real nations.) In other words, it's a hot-bed of political intrigue and double-dealing.

[Araraukar]

OOC: Guys, any nation can ignore the gameside stuff (TG about law change, etc.), but blatant noncompliance on the GA forum should make people ignore that player, not repeat what they know very well but pretend not to, just to get attention.

As for the voting progress, numbers currently at 2,986 individual nations for and 1,198 against.

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

Those numbers exclude the number of delegates also voting. (The number of delegates, I mean, not how many votes they've cast.) Though obviously more delegates are voting for than against.

[Araraukar]

Those numbers exclude the number of delegates also voting. (The number of delegates, I mean, not how many votes they've cast.) Though obviously more delegates are voting for than against.

Yes, should've written "non-delegate nation votes".

[Jakuso]

That's insulting and wrong; we have an immigration problem so please, learn your facts before you speak. And the Federal Government can bring in laws to veto/amend these resolutions IF they are deemed to have a serious effect on our nation. As I have always said, the WA should focus on international matters, not sovereign ones. But I know you'll probably tell me "ahh no, you've given away your sovereignty in joining" well yes I know that, and that's something that my party, the People's Voice would want to change.

"You're mixing up fact and opinion, which is a shocker. I never claimed that Jakuso lacks willing immigrants, just that I'm surprised any are willing to live there. To simplify a complex topic, governments cannot veto or amend WA resolutions. Resolutions are binding as-is. What you have "always said" is largely irrelevant, because you seem to have a fantastical view of how the WA works."

OOC: From the FAQs...

The World Assembly is the world's governing body. It's your chance to mold the world to your vision, by voting for resolutions you like and scuttling the rest. However, it's a double-edged sword, because your nation will be affected by any resolutions that pass. (Unfortunately you can't obey the resolutions you like and ignore the rest, like real nations.) In other words, it's a hot-bed of political intrigue and double-dealing.

But you are insulting my country ambassador, and that is shameful here in this council. I have always believed that national sovereignty is a paramount feature in a country's independence. I agree that the WA should legislate on things like stopping the international drugs trade, or finding and bringing international terrorists to justice. The WA should not exist to pass laws that will tell us how we employ our workers, or before you know it, how we make our tea and coffee. The majority of people back home in Yakus agree that the WA goes overboard on the things it tries to legislate on, things that our people don't really get a say on, only the delegates, that may affect them greatly. This resolution has the possibility of seriously changing things for our people in ways which, democratically speaking, they don't want to see changed. I want to see resolutions that fight for a better global community, not to but in to the lives of the common men and women of our countries respectively.

OOC: I can role play as a member that doesn't quite follow the norm of the WA's definition. As in we don't particularly want to follow things that exceptionally alter things in Yakus.

[Defwa]

"You're mixing up fact and opinion, which is a shocker. I never claimed that Jakuso lacks willing immigrants, just that I'm surprised any are willing to live there. To simplify a complex topic, governments cannot veto or amend WA resolutions. Resolutions are binding as-is. What you have "always said" is largely irrelevant, because you seem to have a fantastical view of how the WA works."

OOC: From the FAQs...

But you are insulting my country ambassador, and that is shameful here in this council. I have always believed that national sovereignty is a paramount feature in a country's independence. I agree that the WA should legislate on things like stopping the international drugs trade, or finding and bringing international terrorists to justice. The WA should not exist to pass laws that will tell us how we employ our workers, or before you know it, how we make our tea and coffee. The majority of people back home in Yakus agree that the WA goes overboard on the things it tries to legislate on, things that our people don't really get a say on, only the delegates, that may affect them greatly. This resolution has the possibility of seriously changing things for our people in ways which, democratically speaking, they don't want to see changed. I want to see resolutions that fight for a better global community, not to but in to the lives of the common men and women of our countries respectively.

OOC: I can role play as a member that doesn't quite follow the norm of the WA's definition. As in we don't particularly want to follow things that exceptionally alter things in Yakus.

Caught onto that, did you? You really have no idea what this resolution does. I haven't bothered trying (fruitlessly) to correct you because at least you were voting in my favor but I guess it doesn't matter anymore either way. Its effectively a blank space that has no impact on your national operations and prevents the WA from legislating on certain topics. Now if so many in your nation simply hate what the WA does, why are you so insistent on being a part of it? If you believe there are areas that the WA can be useful in but is failing to, why don't you author something to change that fact?

OOC: Sure, I guess you can technically do that. It's just really stupid and defeats the purpose of being here.

[Separatist Peoples]

But you are insulting my country ambassador, and that is shameful here in this council. I have always believed that national sovereignty is a paramount feature in a country's independence. I agree that the WA should legislate on things like stopping the international drugs trade, or finding and bringing international terrorists to justice. The WA should not exist to pass laws that will tell us how we employ our workers, or before you know it, how we make our tea and coffee. The majority of people back home in Yakus agree that the WA goes overboard on the things it tries to legislate on, things that our people don't really get a say on, only the delegates, that may affect them greatly. This resolution has the possibility of seriously changing things for our people in ways which, democratically speaking, they don't want to see changed. I want to see resolutions that fight for a better global community, not to but in to the lives of the common men and women of our countries respectively.

OOC: I can role play as a member that doesn't quite follow the norm of the WA's definition. As in we don't particularly want to follow things that exceptionally alter things in Yakus.

"You see how I'm just filled with utter and boundless shame at the thought of the Kingdom of Jakuso being insulted. Please, this is the Festering Snakepit. People insult each other's countries all the time. Just be glad I'm keeping my full opinion to myself. Its been pointed out that this non-invasive bill, which can be circumvented by creating literally any reason at all to justify your nation's choice of workweek length, is designed to block worse invasions of sovereignty. Much like GAR#10 creates very mild requirements and blocks any attempts to revoke the right of nuclear weapon ownership. If your world view was wider then a gnat's, you'd likely have seen that, ambassador."

OOC: You can, yes. It is considered very bad form, and will get your opinion immediately discounted on the forum, because its viewed as a giant middle finger to the players. Its rather like throwing sand in the sandbox at the playground: you're within your rights to do so, but everybody will hate you for it, and nobody will want to play with you once you make a habit of it. Especially when a smidgeon of creativity makes avoiding compliance fun for everybody.

[Jakuso]

But you are insulting my country ambassador, and that is shameful here in this council. I have always believed that national sovereignty is a paramount feature in a country's independence. I agree that the WA should legislate on things like stopping the international drugs trade, or finding and bringing international terrorists to justice. The WA should not exist to pass laws that will tell us how we employ our workers, or before you know it, how we make our tea and coffee. The majority of people back home in Yakus agree that the WA goes overboard on the things it tries to legislate on, things that our people don't really get a say on, only the delegates, that may affect them greatly. This resolution has the possibility of seriously changing things for our people in ways which, democratically speaking, they don't want to see changed. I want to see resolutions that fight for a better global community, not to but in to the lives of the common men and women of our countries respectively.

OOC: I can role play as a member that doesn't quite follow the norm of the WA's definition. As in we don't particularly want to follow things that exceptionally alter things in Yakus.

Caught onto that, did you? You really have no idea what this resolution does. I haven't bothered trying (fruitlessly) to correct you because at least you were voting in my favor but I guess it doesn't matter anymore either way. Its effectively a blank space that has no impact on your national operations and prevents the WA from legislating on certain topics. Now if so many in your nation simply hate what the WA does, why are you so insistent on being a part of it? If you believe there are areas that the WA can be useful in but is failing to, why don't you author something to change that fact?

OOC: Sure, I guess you can technically do that. It's just really stupid and defeats the purpose of being here.

But you are insulting my country ambassador, and that is shameful here in this council. I have always believed that national sovereignty is a paramount feature in a country's independence. I agree that the WA should legislate on things like stopping the international drugs trade, or finding and bringing international terrorists to justice. The WA should not exist to pass laws that will tell us how we employ our workers, or before you know it, how we make our tea and coffee. The majority of people back home in Yakus agree that the WA goes overboard on the things it tries to legislate on, things that our people don't really get a say on, only the delegates, that may affect them greatly. This resolution has the possibility of seriously changing things for our people in ways which, democratically speaking, they don't want to see changed. I want to see resolutions that fight for a better global community, not to but in to the lives of the common men and women of our countries respectively.

OOC: I can role play as a member that doesn't quite follow the norm of the WA's definition. As in we don't particularly want to follow things that exceptionally alter things in Yakus.

"You see how I'm just filled with utter and boundless shame at the thought of the Kingdom of Jakuso being insulted. Please, this is the Festering Snakepit. People insult each other's countries all the time. Just be glad I'm keeping my full opinion to myself. Its been pointed out that this non-invasive bill, which can be circumvented by creating literally any reason at all to justify your nation's choice of workweek length, is designed to block worse invasions of sovereignty. Much like GAR#10 creates very mild requirements and blocks any attempts to revoke the right of nuclear weapon ownership. If your world view was wider then a gnat's, you'd likely have seen that, ambassador."

OOC: You can, yes. It is considered very bad form, and will get your opinion immediately discounted on the forum, because its viewed as a giant middle finger to the players. Its rather like throwing sand in the sandbox at the playground: you're within your rights to do so, but everybody will hate you for it, and nobody will want to play with you once you make a habit of it. Especially when a smidgeon of creativity makes avoiding compliance fun for everybody.

Well, then why bother passing laws which are pointless an do nothing? They are simply a waste of ambassadors' time. Nevertheless we are voting against this because it's going to introduce a few laws that we don't want to see introduced. We want our own businesses to make decisions without them being blinded in what they can do by WA resolutions. Yakus has had a proud tradition of equality and rights in the workplace and with or without this resolution in place, that tradition shall continue.

OOC: role playing how I want to does not make me stupid; if anything it makes me just a bit more "original" than the norm. And that's good in my opinion.

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

OOC: role playing how I want to does not make me stupid; if anything it makes me just a bit more "original" than the norm. And that's good in my opinion.

It doesn't make you original. You are hardly the first to come in here and whine about resolutions ruining your country and claiming your right to defy them. It only shows how unoriginal you are and how much skill you lack as a WA player. WA players should be able to find creative ways to avoid bad effects of legislation on their nations. Or even less creative ways, like resigning and designating an official puppet to conduct WA business, or seeking to repeal bad legislation. I suggest you immediately adopt one of these three courses if you ever want to be respected as a member of this "hallowed" institution.

But again, you have been informed multiple times, this legislation requires next to nothing of your country. It is meaningless fluff designed to obstruct other, more harmful laws from taking effect. It is, rather, an attack on other legislators and not on your nation. You should probably save your rage for a more intrusive and detrimental law. Because there are plenty of those to go around.

[Separatist Peoples]

Well, then why bother passing laws which are pointless an do nothing? They are simply a waste of ambassadors' time. Nevertheless we are voting against this because it's going to introduce a few laws that we don't want to see introduced. We want our own businesses to make decisions without them being blinded in what they can do by WA resolutions. Yakus has had a proud tradition of equality and rights in the workplace and with or without this resolution in place, that tradition shall continue.

OOC: role playing how I want to does not make me stupid; if anything it makes me just a bit more "original" than the norm. And that's good in my opinion.

OOC: No, but refusing to play by the established rules and demanding that everybody accommodate your own set and pouting when somebody calls you out on it sends an equally strong message. Mostly that you are systematically unable to effectively play a multiplayer game. When you decide to stop throwing fistfuls of sand at others, let me know. Until then...

IC: "Well, I am out of spoons. If I wanted to tolerate this many tantrums in a professional setting, I'd have been a middle school teacher."

Bell walks over to the Jakusan representative, hefting a sloshingly full bucket. With an almost inaudible grunt, he swings the bucket up into his off hand and hurls the contents in a beautiful arc right on top of the offending delegate. As the strange liquid drips down the Jakusan representative, soaking into the little crevasses and nooks, Bell allows the bucket to clatter to the floor, and the label "ACME-BRAND INVISIBLE INK" can be seen emblazoned on the side.
By the time he makes it back into the seat, the Invisible Ink has already begun to dry, making the offending ambassador impossible to see (at least for Bell), and, in a strange quirk of ACME-brand techno-wonder, completely inaudible as well.
"Much better. Shall we get back to it?"

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

"Well, I am out of spoons. If I wanted to tolerate this many tantrums in a professional setting, I'd have been a middle school teacher."

Bell walks over to the Jakusan representative, hefting a sloshingly full bucket. With an almost inaudible grunt, he swings the bucket up into his off hand and hurls the contents in a beautiful arc right on top of the offending delegate. As the strange liquid drips down the Jakusan representative, soaking into the little crevasses and nooks, Bell allows the bucket to clatter to the floor, and the label "ACME-BRAND INVISIBLE INK" can be seen emblazoned on the side.
By the time he makes it back into the seat, the Invisible Ink has already begun to dry, making the offending ambassador impossible to see (at least for Bell), and, in a strange quirk of ACME-brand techno-wonder, completely inaudible as well.
"Much better. Shall we get back to it?"

OOC: I guess in this case a simple defenestration isn't enough?

[Defwa]

"Well, I am out of spoons. If I wanted to tolerate this many tantrums in a professional setting, I'd have been a middle school teacher."

Bell walks over to the Jakusan representative, hefting a sloshingly full bucket. With an almost inaudible grunt, he swings the bucket up into his off hand and hurls the contents in a beautiful arc right on top of the offending delegate. As the strange liquid drips down the Jakusan representative, soaking into the little crevasses and nooks, Bell allows the bucket to clatter to the floor, and the label "ACME-BRAND INVISIBLE INK" can be seen emblazoned on the side.
By the time he makes it back into the seat, the Invisible Ink has already begun to dry, making the offending ambassador impossible to see (at least for Bell), and, in a strange quirk of ACME-brand techno-wonder, completely inaudible as well.
"Much better. Shall we get back to it?"

OOC: I guess in this case a simple defenestration isn't enough?

OOC: I'm sure he wouldn't get the message

[Separatist Peoples]

:lol:

OOC: I guess in this case a simple defenestration isn't enough?

OOC: That would likely end up ignored alongside the compliance There have been a lack of them lately, though. I'll have to do something about that...

[Chester Pearson]

OOC: Okay fine.... Since we are going to play this game, I will join to. I am the top-hat by the way.

IC: Ambassador Atkosino what is the Yakus you keep referring to? I thought I may have seen it on a map somewhere, along with it's capital of Corocent, but when Federation satellites flew over, and we sent a spy plane into the area, all we found was a giant massive crater where it used to be. Very strange indeed....

[Defwa]

OOC: Okay fine.... Since we are going to play this game, I will join to. I am the top-hat by the way.

IC: Ambassador Atkosino what is the Yakus you keep referring to? I thought I may have seen it on a map somewhere, along with it's capital of Corocent, but when Federation satellites flew over, and we sent a spy plane into the area, all we found was a giant massive crater where it used to be. Very strange indeed....

OOC: I like this game so far

[District XIV]

"Individual Working Freedoms was passed 6,182 votes to 3,235."