[PASSED] Liberate Panem

[District XIV]

New Market has carefully read through the entire argument on this issue. I am glad Signs, the one who passworded the region, finally spoke out and brought clarity to the issue.

He didn't "bring clarity to the issue", he stated how he was pointlessly sitting on the region for no good reason; practically giving the finger to original natives like USJR and SUS.

Create a new region called New Panem, or whatever is legal to do so, that way you have a founder and will not be raided IF you will be dedicating more than just a month towards the region. Let those like Signs, who have turtled up, keep the region as it now stands.

Wish me luck!

I can't -_-

New Market will be voting against this resolution.

For no good reason.

[Chester Pearson]

New Market will be voting against this resolution.

For no good reason.

Probably for the same reason everyone else has. This is a pointless resolution. Are you planning on moving back in, and actively hardcore recruiting for the region? I thought not....

What's next? Are you going to try and liberate a region (Stonehaven) that I happen to hold and have locked down, because I won't let anyone in?

Just let it go man.... The region is dead, and should probably stay that way. Find or found a new region, and make your home there, and quit wasting precious voting time....

[Schaesberg]

I'm still really new at this, but it does seem pointless to liberate the region if there is no plan for what will happen afterward. I'm also concerned with liberating a region that does not wish to be liberated. I understand that some former residents would like to see the region brought back, but the current residents don't seem to want it or don't care about it; which is their prerogative.

I don't see being able to support this resolution at this time. I would be more inclined to do so with a firm commitment by former residents to return and do the heavy lifting. If there was a commitment and I missed it, I apologize and will take it into account.

[District XIV]

I'm still really new at this, but it does seem pointless to liberate the region if there is no plan for what will happen afterward. I'm also concerned with liberating a region that does not wish to be liberated. I understand that some former residents would like to see the region brought back, but the current residents don't seem to want it or don't care about it; which is their prerogative.

I don't see being able to support this resolution at this time. I would be more inclined to do so with a firm commitment by former residents to return and do the heavy lifting. If there was a commitment and I missed it, I apologize and will take it into account.

I will attempt to do my best to restore it, yes.

[Ramaeus]

Eh, I voted for. Might as well see what you can do.

Besides, it's not like this affects us.

[Schaesberg]

I will attempt to do my best to restore it, yes.

After discussing the matter with the Gentleman from District XIV and receiving an assurance that his nation intends to return to Panem, the Hyatt Islands will vote FOR the resolution.

[Blood Wine]

Liberation would likely see a flash raid as well and serve as evidence the SC fails miserably in it's mission due to the people - so go ahead,i dare ya

Well then it gets flash raided and the region goes from its current inane state to a war zone. Just another drop in the bucket of R/D

And all because the SC blindly supports liberations,but maybe people are smart enough,looking at the current vote it'll be a tight one

[Blood Wine]

Looking at the voters,it seems "FOR" has the smaller voters,but "AGAINST" has more bigger voters

[Topid]

Topid of course votes FOR. There is no community left in the region what-so-ever. The nations that remain in the region in question appear to be puppets, and the region will likely sit dead for years and years before anyone can join if this fails. I can't see why half the world wants that outcome. If the author wants to give building the region a shot, I can't see what could be lost. And even if the odds aren't great, there is definitely something that could be gained.

[Mundiferrum]

Topid of course votes FOR. There is no community left in the region what-so-ever. The nations that remain in the region in question appear to be puppets, and the region will likely sit dead for years and years before anyone can join if this fails. I can't see why half the world wants that outcome. If the author wants to give building the region a shot, I can't see what could be lost. And even if the odds aren't great, there is definitely something that could be gained.

More than half of the regions in NS [citation needed] are pretty much like Panem, too. No community left in the region, filled with puppets, fated to sit forever in inactivity. Do you suggest we liberate those, too?
Restoring a region's glory and activity is not the mission of this assembly: it is to spread interregional peace and goodwill. Is opening up a region to make it more active helpful in both of those counts? No. On the contrary, opening up the region could also open it up to raids, which is contrary, obviously, to interregional peace, or at least by the definition of peace this Assembly has established; and going against the wishes of the region's natives is definitely against the idea of international goodwill.
Additionally, there is a massive parallel here between two proposals recently lined up in queue: Liberate Haven and Liberate Capitalist Paradise. Sure, the intent may be somehow nicer, but in general, the pointlessness of those two earlier proposals show up greatly in this one, and that is something I believe the SC should strive to not let continue. The whole issue here, too, is very internal in its nature: this isn't even involving multiple parties vying for control over one region, but instead two parties of the same region vying for control; and I do believe the SC has never truly intervened in civil matters even akin to this. Hence, Mundiferrum votes AGAINST this proposal, and urges everyone to follow suit.

[Wrapper]

Been going back and forth on this. Seems like a petty squabble, but after an inquiry, I received a response from USJR, which states in part:

I don't think the current natives are real people, that or they just answer issues and move on. When i was in Panem after USU left there was only a few active members. Then they too died. It was sad as the region just... grew moldy. The message on the RMB is testament to me trying to get things running again, a new web page, elections, spots. But no one did anything, at all!

I think that District XIV is the best, most enthusiastic and stubborn person to run the region. He is obviously trying to reboot the region and in the face of rejection keeps pushing.

USJR has also committed to help recruit for the liberated region. A liberation would make this interesting, and I'm curious to see how this region might turn out. This is enough for me to change my vote to FOR.

[Topid]

Topid of course votes FOR. There is no community left in the region what-so-ever. The nations that remain in the region in question appear to be puppets, and the region will likely sit dead for years and years before anyone can join if this fails. I can't see why half the world wants that outcome. If the author wants to give building the region a shot, I can't see what could be lost. And even if the odds aren't great, there is definitely something that could be gained.

More than half of the regions in NS [citation needed] are pretty much like Panem, too. No community left in the region, filled with puppets, fated to sit forever in inactivity. Do you suggest we liberate those, too?
Restoring a region's glory and activity is not the mission of this assembly: it is to spread interregional peace and goodwill. Is opening up a region to make it more active helpful in both of those counts? No. On the contrary, opening up the region could also open it up to raids, which is contrary, obviously, to interregional peace, or at least by the definition of peace this Assembly has established; and going against the wishes of the region's natives is definitely against the idea of international goodwill.
Additionally, there is a massive parallel here between two proposals recently lined up in queue: Liberate Haven and Liberate Capitalist Paradise. Sure, the intent may be somehow nicer, but in general, the pointlessness of those two earlier proposals show up greatly in this one, and that is something I believe the SC should strive to not let continue. The whole issue here, too, is very internal in its nature: this isn't even involving multiple parties vying for control over one region, but instead two parties of the same region vying for control; and I do believe the SC has never truly intervened in civil matters even akin to this. Hence, Mundiferrum votes AGAINST this proposal, and urges everyone to follow suit.

Half of NationStates has not been passworded by a non-native to protect "natives" who are clearly puppets, no. And half of NationStates also does not have a pretty active guy (I've bumped into District IV several times over the last couple weeks in various places) wanting to bring them back, either.

"Opening the region to raids" is not contrary to peace. The region has been nuked. It is dead, and is prevented from ever coming back. As I've said many times, killing a region to prevent it from being raided makes absolutely no sense, that isn't a peace anyone should want.

This isn't two internal parties vying for control of a region. It is defenders vying to be sure that no one can ever have administration powers over the region, so raiders never get tag the region, and the other party is someone who wants to build the region into a community vying to regain access to the region. There are no natives in this dead region, so it can't be a squabble between natives. It is a "squabble" between two external parties that believe they know what is best for Panem, one who sees that as being to sit dead for years, and one that sees it as attempting to grow. I know with whom I agree with.

Finally, both Haven and CP have communities and are active regions. There is almost no parallel at all, other than that they are both liberation resolutions.

[Nordenwald]

I know that this region is going to get raided the minute it is liberated, however, I figure I'll give District and USJR a chance to rebuild.

And besides, the idea of letting a bunch of defender puppets sit and wallow in a tepid pool of inactivity isn't exactly appealing.

[Star United States]

Might as well...

The region of Panem reached a peak, but was pushed down back under by a series of raids, commencing with a raid from a supposed defender region while Panem was in elections. Noting that this brings the concern that the nations currently sitting in the region are from said origin, however, it is a theory.

Continuing to note that Signs is supposed denfender that joined the during the region's dark days, and was utterly inactive, that logging in was rather rare. Adding on, and agreeing to Topich, the region is most likely full of "sleepers," who are not doing any actions to restore the regions, but instead preventing any other nations from joining. Also noticing that Sighs resign from the World Assembly a while back, and with what purpose? A one currently unknown. Which continues to hint at the fact that the region is full of "sleepers."

Adding on, and qouting Signs (Directed to District XIV)

... we're gonna sit here. That is our right, a right you never earned.

Pushing aside any type of issue between nations, and noting that The Security Council defines a liberation as "a resolution to strike down delegate-imposed barriersbto free entry in a region." A region that has potential, such as all the regions, shouldn't be left under delegate-imposed barriers that prevent free entry into a region. A region will never be prosperous in that condition.

The region is practically dead - since the nations there are just "gonna sit here [in Panem]," as quoted from above. The nations currently in the region do not want to do anything to restore the region, unlike natives that were driven out of the region one way or another, as it is clearly seen.

Also wanting to mention - directed to nations who can not compose constructive sentences in a post - there is no need to post unconstructive comments.

[Annadelle]

"Annadelle votes AGAINST due to the fact that this region means nothing to the NS and does not deserve a chance."

[District XIV]

does not deserve a chance."

Who are you to say that? I mean, really, come on.

[Tantricia]

It's interesting how often the concept that some nations have of 'lemming voters' is disproven. Large delegates are voting against, yet most of the individual nations who are voting value freedom over apathy (1,615 for vs 872 against as of this post.)

[District XIV]

Eh, I voted for. Might as well see what you can do.

Besides, it's not like this affects us.

Now you withdrew your vote ;-;

[Ramaeus]

Eh, I voted for. Might as well see what you can do.

Besides, it's not like this affects us.

Now you withdrew your vote ;-;

Might as well make the vote interesting.

[Normlpeople]

OOC: I am sure you have the lemmings holding up mockingjay salutes as we speak, but then again, so did hogwarts, and we saw that joke vanish quickly. This is much the same. I honestly hope you don't believe you will actually gain power in this region, especially since the current natives don't want you there, and the raiders are chomping at the bit.

[District XIV]

especially since the current natives don't want you there

*air quotes*

"natives"

Please quit it with this whole "the current natives blahblahblah" bullshit. They aren't natives. If they were, they'd be wishing to refound the region like I, a former native, do.

[Chester Pearson]

OOC: I am sure you have the lemmings holding up mockingjay salutes as we speak, but then again, so did hogwarts, and we saw that joke vanish quickly. This is much the same. I honestly hope you don't believe you will actually gain power in this region, especially since the current natives don't want you there, and the raiders are chomping at the bit.

It is disgusting to see that the Joke Council has resorted to weaponizing liberations yet again, after it was assured that this would not be done again. District has no intention of rebuilding that region, and anyone who thinks that he does, can put the glue bottle down anytime now.

Given the recent events in Canada, I would not be too surprised if District is either a Rider, or a Hawk pretending to be some poor lost soul hoping to return home to his region, and playing on the sympathies of this inept chamber....

[District XIV]

Given the recent events in Canada, I would not be too surprised if District is either a Rider, or a Hawk pretending to be some poor lost soul hoping to return home to his region, and playing on the sympathies of this inept chamber....

I'm not a raider, nor have I ever been affiliated with any raider groups.

My plan is not to raid the region.

Chester, you're honestly putting on an attitude for the sake of it.

[Chester Pearson]

Chester, you're honestly putting on an attitude for the sake of it.

Not at all.... Why do you need this region open so badly? Are you ready to dedicate hours of you life to rebuilding it? No I don't think you are...

What I see happening if this passes, is you either raiding it (most likely choice), or moving in trying to rebuild, and quickly giving up.Neither one of those options really helps anyone. It will die on its own soon enough, so why do we need to waste time, only to waste three more days repealing the liberation?

You show me your plan in detail, and who you have ready to support your endeavours, and I may change my mind. Until then, this is nothing more than a blatant weaponization of a liberation, and I will not stand for it.

[District XIV]

Chester, you're honestly putting on an attitude for the sake of it.

Not at all.... Why do you need this region open so badly? Are you ready to dedicate hours of you life to rebuilding it? No I don't think you are...

What I see happening if this passes, is you either raiding it (most likely choice), or moving in trying to rebuild, and quickly giving up.Neither one of those options really helps anyone. It will die on its own soon enough, so why do we need to waste time, only to waste three more days repealing the liberation?

You show me your plan in detail, and who you have ready to support your endeavours, and I may change my mind. Until then, this is nothing more than a blatant weaponization of a liberation, and I will not stand for it.

I'm going to try to refound it. I will try. If it doesn't work then "fuck me", alright? If, just if, the refound works I will spend time recruiting and whatnot for it.

What do I have to gain from "raiding it" like you claim I'll do? I'm not associated with any raider groups, nor do I even have a wish to raid it.