[DEFEATED] Liberate Capitalist Paradise

[the Imperial Crown]

I'm sorry, what can I attest to?

~LR

My totes condemnable actions errerywhere.

I can only really speak of Osiris, and even then originally you were originally a powerhouse who done what you could to keep Osiris stable. We're all allowed a bit of bad behaviour from time to time - recalling the dungeons.

Meh, I'm retired from feeders and sinkers (and everywhere else) and see no point of rehashing old shit, it's all long gone.

[Nierr]

It is something I'm giving thought to.

[Elke and Elba]

If the author here wants to play with fire, let's play with real fire: https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopi ... #p20886642

I promise never to release or distribute aforementioned tool if the author withdraws his proposal and does not propose new submissions regarding Liberating Capitalist Paradise.

This is seriously fucked up beyond words.
*** Nation deleted. ***

The Blaatschapen - Nationstates Moderator

SCOLOEDIT: It goes without saying that threatening to crack passwords is against the rules. Using it as a blackmail tool is doubly against the rules and well beyond the bounds of anything anyone should ever consider acceptable.

~Scolo

Thanks. Since the mods have intervened in the state of affairs, I shall withdraw my approval for this proposal - one done in protest.

[Bears Armed]

If the author here wants to play with fire, let's play with real fire: https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopi ... #p20886642

I promise never to release or distribute aforementioned tool if the author withdraws his proposal and does not propose new submissions regarding Liberating Capitalist Paradise.

This is seriously fucked up beyond words.
*** Nation deleted. ***

The Blaatschapen - Nationstates Moderator

SCOLOEDIT: It goes without saying that threatening to crack passwords is against the rules. Using it as a blackmail tool is doubly against the rules and well beyond the bounds of anything anyone should ever consider acceptable.

~Scolo

Thank the Great Bear for voices of reason!

So did Afforess "only" have another nation DEATed for this offence, meaning that he could still return in yet another guise, or was it considered serious enough to move him onto the DOS list?

[Arthur Jackson]

If your intent is to flood the queue, how about liberating regions like Monty Pythons Flying Circus? So that when you post it here I can say "Stop that, it's silly." But in my best Graham Chapman voice, of course.

It's better than asking me about my shed.

(But seriously, we have that password for a reason.)

[The Blaatschapen]

This is seriously fucked up beyond words.
*** Nation deleted. ***

The Blaatschapen - Nationstates Moderator

SCOLOEDIT: It goes without saying that threatening to crack passwords is against the rules. Using it as a blackmail tool is doubly against the rules and well beyond the bounds of anything anyone should ever consider acceptable.

~Scolo

Thank the Great Bear for voices of reason!

So did Afforess "only" have another nation DEATed for this offence, meaning that he could still return in yet another guise, or was it considered serious enough to move him onto the DOS list?

We cannot discuss specifics of an ongoing determination.

The Blaatschapen - Nationstates Moderator

[Bears Armed]

We cannot discuss specifics of an ongoing determination.

The Blaatschapen - Nationstates Moderator

Still under discussion then? Okay, understood.

[Vicious Debaters]

Well, given the unique set of circumstances I have to say that I'm against liberating Capitalist Paradise. This might as well be abandoned.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Given this twist of events and the fact the perpetrator of such an egregious action also got DEAT, I am removing my approval as well.

Balance is always needed, and since the one who created the chaos is gone to begin with, it doesn't make much sense to give this one a go, really.

[Luna Amore]

Thanks. Since the mods have intervened in the state of affairs, I shall withdraw my approval for this proposal - one done in protest.

Well, given the unique set of circumstances I have to say that I'm against liberating Capitalist Paradise. This might as well be abandoned.

Given this twist of events and the fact the perpetrator of such an egregious action also got DEAT, I am removing my approval as well.

Balance is always needed, and since the one who created the chaos is gone to begin with, it doesn't make much sense to give this one a go, really.

You were all OK with punishing an entire region of ~450 inhabitants because of one player's actions? Interesting.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Thanks. Since the mods have intervened in the state of affairs, I shall withdraw my approval for this proposal - one done in protest.

Well, given the unique set of circumstances I have to say that I'm against liberating Capitalist Paradise. This might as well be abandoned.

Given this twist of events and the fact the perpetrator of such an egregious action also got DEAT, I am removing my approval as well.

Balance is always needed, and since the one who created the chaos is gone to begin with, it doesn't make much sense to give this one a go, really.

You were all OK with punishing an entire region of ~450 inhabitants because of one player's actions? Interesting.

I'm not into this for the "hypocrite" label, as I have no personal interest in seeking punishment to a region for one player's actions.

However, if Afforess wanted to play this card (a new "Liberate Haven" proposal) he should have been ready for the consequences that would bring to himself and others. He was playing with his region, and that was obvious, but he didn't stop to think about it; so I don't feel any guilt into putting forth my approval at first nor in removing it.

Also, I'd like to point out that the first "Liberate Haven" proposal kind of was doing the same thing and many people supporting it didn't seem to mind too much about it back then either.

[DWAsnia]

Thanks. Since the mods have intervened in the state of affairs, I shall withdraw my approval for this proposal - one done in protest.

Well, given the unique set of circumstances I have to say that I'm against liberating Capitalist Paradise. This might as well be abandoned.

Given this twist of events and the fact the perpetrator of such an egregious action also got DEAT, I am removing my approval as well.

Balance is always needed, and since the one who created the chaos is gone to begin with, it doesn't make much sense to give this one a go, really.

You were all OK with punishing an entire region of ~450 inhabitants because of one player's actions? Interesting.

Its like saying all Germans are bad because of one political party . . .

[Vicious Debaters]

Thanks. Since the mods have intervened in the state of affairs, I shall withdraw my approval for this proposal - one done in protest.

Well, given the unique set of circumstances I have to say that I'm against liberating Capitalist Paradise. This might as well be abandoned.

Given this twist of events and the fact the perpetrator of such an egregious action also got DEAT, I am removing my approval as well.

Balance is always needed, and since the one who created the chaos is gone to begin with, it doesn't make much sense to give this one a go, really.

You were all OK with punishing an entire region of ~450 inhabitants because of one player's actions? Interesting.

I would contend that the culture/role/etc. of Capitalist Paradise could radically change with the deletion of Shadow Afforess (Who was functionally 'Forum Royalty' and fairly dominant). Should Capitalist Paradise still warrant liberation, we can do it after the situation cools down.

[Luna Amore]

You were all OK with punishing an entire region of ~450 inhabitants because of one player's actions? Interesting.

I'm not into this for the "hypocrite" label, as I have no personal interest in seeking punishment to a region for one player's actions.

However, if Afforess wanted to play this card (a new "Liberate Haven" proposal) he should have been ready for the consequences that would bring to himself and others. He was playing with his region, and that was obvious, but he didn't stop to think about it; so I don't feel any guilt into putting forth my approval at first nor in removing it.

I have no idea if you are a hypocrite. I guess that would depend on if you opposed Liberate Haven at all on the grounds that the actions of a few should not paint an entire region in a negative light.

Also, I'd like to point out that the first "Liberate Haven" proposal kind of was doing the same thing and many people supporting it didn't seem to mind too much about it back then either.

How is that justification? You thought it was inappropriate and shitty when they did it, so that means do it right back? (I'm using 'you' and 'they' in a more general sense, not you specifically.)

I just think it is amazingly petty to go after a region because of one player, and I really don't understand how or why this section of the game became so hostile.

Its like saying all Germans are bad because of one political party . . .

Or like throwing an entire town of people in jail because one guy committed a crime.

[Shizensky]

Call me old fashioned, but I don't think it sets a good precedent to start waving Liberation proposals around as punishment. I'm not sure anybody has made the right decision in any part of this haphazard chain of threats and retaliations, but now's as good a time as any to dial it back.

[Nierr]

The precedent already exists.

[Luna Amore]

The precedent already exists.

And you are deciding to reinforce that precedent. A precedent that I'm pretty sure you disagree with on the whole. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I just find it funny that people jumped on Mall saying he was using the Liberation function to bully a region and then you turn around and do the exact same thing to Capitalist Paradise.

[Nierr]

The precedent already exists.

And you are deciding to reinforce that precedent. A precedent that I'm pretty sure you disagree with on the whole. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I just find it funny that people jumped on Mall saying he was using the Liberation function to bully a region and then you turn around and do the exact same thing to Capitalist Paradise after a member of Capitalist Paradise drafted another Liberate Haven resolution.

Don't mistake what I'm doing here. I struck back against Afforess after he struck at my interests. He bears the responsibility for what happens next.

[Shizensky]

He bears the responsibility for what happens next.

Putting a gun against a dead man's head and telling him this is all his fault means absolutely nothing.

[Nierr]

He bears the responsibility for what happens next.

Putting a gun against a dead man's head and telling him this is all his fault means absolutely nothing.

To you, perhaps. To me? It's a statement.

Gameplay is done fucking over roleplay.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

How is that justification? You thought it was inappropriate and shitty when they did it, so that means do it right back? (I'm using 'you' and 'they' in a more general sense, not you specifically.)

I just think it is amazingly petty to go after a region because of one player, and I really don't understand how or why this section of the game became so hostile.

I think it's amazingly petty myself to go after a region for the actions of a few; I also think it's amazingly petty we're embroiled into all this R/D-RP debacle if mutual respect would have been established last time this happened. However, like I mentioned, I have no self-interest into all of this. My region houses only me, one of my puppets, and another WA member; hence once I CTE my region will perish.

However, this is what desperation does to people, and I see where the ones who made this proposal are coming from after reading multiple threads where mutual respect has not been established and Gameplay has been established as more important de facto.

In other words, I think the more reasonable solution for solving this is advocating respect from both sides and have them both realize that both parts of NS (R/D and RolePlay) are important. As it stands, we won't see either side relenting, and that is why the forums have become so hostile as of lately. If people want to see this done and over with, all this pettiness and hostility (including Afforess' threats which were over the top) then things need to cool down to where we all have leveled heads on our shoulders.

Right now? At this moment? That's not happening, and nobody but me and a few others like Esternial have been advocating for cool heads for days and we've been drowned out by the more vocal crowd. And the roleplay community has tried to talk reason into the raiders and that hasn't worked. This is nobody's fault but our own as a community, basically.

[Luna Amore]

And you are deciding to reinforce that precedent. A precedent that I'm pretty sure you disagree with on the whole. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I just find it funny that people jumped on Mall saying he was using the Liberation function to bully a region and then you turn around and do the exact same thing to Capitalist Paradise after a member of Capitalist Paradise drafted another Liberate Haven resolution.

Don't mistake what I'm doing here. I struck back against Afforess after he struck at my interests. He bears the responsibility for what happens next.

But you didn't strike back at Afforess, you struck back at Capitalist Paradise. It's an important distinction.

[Nierr]

I spent most of the last week advocating for cooler heads. I lead the attempts. I argued down roleplayers in multiple threads and IRCs.

And then another liberate Haven proposal gets drafted and posted. And then Ixnay gets raided.

And I decided that military gameplay doesn't deserve to exist. And their actions are what has caused this.

[Feazanthia]

This discussion is a dangerous road. The proposal is in the queue. Let's let the masses decide it.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I spent most of the last week advocating for cooler heads. I lead the attempts. I argued down roleplayers in multiple threads and IRCs.

And then another liberate Haven proposal gets drafted and posted. And then Ixnay gets raided.

And I decided that military gameplay doesn't deserve to exist. And their actions are what has caused this.

And this is exactly what happens when in the middle of a tense situation someone drops an aerial strike with bombs. It doesn't kill anyone, but it sure as hell pisses people off.

In other words, I understand your position.