[PASSED] Child Pornography Ban

[Defwa]

As far as I understand it, this does still quite apply even if you have no cameras. So much as sketching an act described in this resolution is a violation if you're using authentic models.

Giving an exasperated sigh. Implying we have any skilled artists willing to draw naked children in the first place, though it appears if the contempt held by the Sauvage goverment is anything to go by I won't need to burn my art on the wall depicting Cupid as a naked boy with wings and a bow.

It's not the subject stated by the representative. He has placed an embargo of sorts on the assembly for legalizing the killing for innocents and then turning around and pretending it loves those it condemns. I can't blame him.

You might. Its nigh impossible to say that you don't with certainty.
The point you brought up previously was regarding your people's ability to visually capture the banned subject and that is what I addressed however if you want to make this about abortion, I'm afraid you're confusing the intent of one of these resolutions.

Its a rabbit hole my fellow ambassadors would probably prefer I don't follow you down. One might even say you're baiting fire by bringing it up in a completely out of context and off topic manner.

[Sween]

There is a lot more to this debate than meets the eye. This isn't just about banning child pornography, but it should include in the definition an age that is to be used to distinguish who is child and who is adult. In most jurisdictions, including Yakus, the age of majority is 18. But of course this will vary under the laws of different nationstates, WA member or not. I propose that this resolution SHOULD include a defined age that all member states will adhere to on an international scale.

I also want to stress the evil behind child pornography; if you as a member state of this assembly vote against this resolution, agree or disagree, you are supporting the evil of child pornography.

Ambassador Kim Eun Mi replies to Coroscent.

"Evil? Evil? I just realized now you called this Evil! There is no such thing as Good or Evil! Well i guess we support evil then! Some would call atheism evil, some would call communism evil, we support those. i guess we "support" child pornography and pedophilia, too. Just because we don't denounce it. We don't denounce BDSM. We don't even denounce scatology! Just because we do not denounce something doesn't mean we support it. In your eyes, it's 'you're with us or you're against us.' We don't support scatology, but we will not denounce or ban it. we don't support pedophilia, but we won't denounce or ban it either. the same goes for scatological or child pornography.

International age requirements? All the WA does is micromanage other people's nations! We almost never have resolutions that matter internationally! All these resolutions do is force nations to pass domestic laws! A nation can pass and veto whatever law they please, and it's non of the business of the WA!"

[Defwa]

There is a lot more to this debate than meets the eye. This isn't just about banning child pornography, but it should include in the definition an age that is to be used to distinguish who is child and who is adult. In most jurisdictions, including Yakus, the age of majority is 18. But of course this will vary under the laws of different nationstates, WA member or not. I propose that this resolution SHOULD include a defined age that all member states will adhere to on an international scale.

I also want to stress the evil behind child pornography; if you as a member state of this assembly vote against this resolution, agree or disagree, you are supporting the evil of child pornography.

Ambassador Kim Eun Mi replies to Coroscent.

"Evil? Evil? I just realized now you called this Evil! There is no such thing as Good or Evil! Well i guess we support evil then! Some would call atheism evil, some would call communism evil, we support those. i guess we "support" child pornography and pedophilia, too. Just because we don't denounce it. We don't denounce BDSM. We don't even denounce scatology! Just because we do not denounce something doesn't mean we support it. In your eyes, it's 'you're with us or you're against us.' We don't support scatology, but we will not denounce or ban it. we don't support pedophilia, but we won't denounce or ban it either. the same goes for scatological or child pornography.

International age requirements? All the WA does is micromanage other people's nations! We almost never have resolutions that matter internationally! All these resolutions do is force nations to pass domestic laws! A nation can pass and veto whatever law they please, and it's non of the business of the WA!"

You're over reacting quite severely to a slight that wasn't made.
However if you're not prepared to accept the control the WA exerts over your nation, even though you were made aware of it during your entry, then I must echo the suggestions of my fellow ambassadors and suggest you leave.

[Sween]

As far as I understand it, this does still quite apply even if you have no cameras. So much as sketching an act described in this resolution is a violation if you're using authentic models.

Giving an exasperated sigh. Implying we have any skilled artists willing to draw naked children in the first place, though it appears if the contempt held by the Sauvage goverment is anything to go by I won't need to burn my art on the wall depicting Cupid as a naked boy with wings and a bow.

It's not the subject stated by the representative. He has placed an embargo of sorts on the assembly for legalizing the killing for innocents and then turning around and pretending it loves those it condemns. I can't blame him.

Ambassador Kim Eun Mi to the Sauvage ambassador.

"We agree with you're statements and we also plan to use loopholes, to escape the ridiculous micromanagement of this resolution. Almost everything in this resolution screams "federal law" not "international 'law'. This resolution even violates Sween's constitution."

[Sween]

Ambassador Kim Eun Mi replies to Coroscent.

"Evil? Evil? I just realized now you called this Evil! There is no such thing as Good or Evil! Well i guess we support evil then! Some would call atheism evil, some would call communism evil, we support those. i guess we "support" child pornography and pedophilia, too. Just because we don't denounce it. We don't denounce BDSM. We don't even denounce scatology! Just because we do not denounce something doesn't mean we support it. In your eyes, it's 'you're with us or you're against us.' We don't support scatology, but we will not denounce or ban it. we don't support pedophilia, but we won't denounce or ban it either. the same goes for scatological or child pornography.

International age requirements? All the WA does is micromanage other people's nations! We almost never have resolutions that matter internationally! All these resolutions do is force nations to pass domestic laws! A nation can pass and veto whatever law they please, and it's non of the business of the WA!"

You're over reacting quite severely to a slight that wasn't made.
However if you're not prepared to accept the control the WA exerts over your nation, even though you were made aware of it during your entry, then I must echo the suggestions of my fellow ambassadors and suggest you leave.

The reason we don't leave is because It's required for a nation to run for office in any regional government or military coalition. Sween participates in the Juche union's elections and runs for office occasionally. We are also a member nation of the Juche union's People's Liberation Red Army. If it wasn't for that, we'd be out of this micromanaging mess already.

[Defwa]

You're over reacting quite severely to a slight that wasn't made.
However if you're not prepared to accept the control the WA exerts over your nation, even though you were made aware of it during your entry, then I must echo the suggestions of my fellow ambassadors and suggest you leave.

The reason we don't leave is because It's required to participate in any regional government, unless you are the founder. Sween paticipates in the Juche union's elections. If it wasn't for that, we'd be out of this micromanaging mess already.

You're probably the most disconnected from this debate. The former savage Borg were not agreeing with you. They're trying to say that allowing women control of their bodies and banned child porn are contradictory. You're trying to support the right of children to sell their bodies.

OOC: Maybe your region should use another online poll other than WA endorsements. If they don't, it seems like they expect you to comply with the world assembly as a matter of being a member. Either way, you're ridiculous for a variety of discussed reasons.

[Sween]

The reason we don't leave is because It's required to participate in any regional government, unless you are the founder. Sween paticipates in the Juche union's elections. If it wasn't for that, we'd be out of this micromanaging mess already.

You're probably the most disconnected from this debate. The former savage Borg were not agreeing with you. They're trying to say that allowing women control of their bodies and banned child porn are contradictory. You're trying to support the right of children to sell their bodies.

OOC: Maybe your region should use another online poll other than WA endorsements. If they don't, it seems like they expect you to comply with the world assembly as a matter of being a member. Either way, you're ridiculous for a variety of discussed reasons.

Ambassador Kim Eun Mi quietly picks up her documents and belongings, walks to the door, turns around, and Calmly says:

"We don't enjoy being here any more than you enjoy us being here. Sadly, you have not seen the last of me. Sween will remain in the WA until there is some method of having a non-WA nation be able to administrate a region, which it is not the founder, but an elected leader. From what I've heard, it seems our region's current leader is not a fan of the WA either, but because of how the leadership system works in ALL REGIONS, any nation that is to become a leader MUST be in the WA regardless of the region's stance on it. We promise to make this as much of a living hell for you as it is for us... maybe more."

Ambassador Kim proceeds to hand an envelope to the Defwa ambassador, containing a series of photographs depicting children masturbating, or preforming fellatio, and some lolicon hentai. After the envelope is on the Defwa desk, She proceeds to walk out the door, slamming it after her Nèi Yuán bodyguards follow her out.

[Defwa]

You're probably the most disconnected from this debate. The former savage Borg were not agreeing with you. They're trying to say that allowing women control of their bodies and banned child porn are contradictory. You're trying to support the right of children to sell their bodies.

OOC: Maybe your region should use another online poll other than WA endorsements. If they don't, it seems like they expect you to comply with the world assembly as a matter of being a member. Either way, you're ridiculous for a variety of discussed reasons.

Ambassador Kim Eun Mi quietly picks up her documents and belongings, walks to the door, turns around, and Calmly says:

"We don't enjoy being here any more than you enjoy us being here. Sadly, you have not seen the last of me. Sween will remain in the WA until there is some method of having a non-WA nation be able to administrate a region, which it is not the founder, but an elected leader. From what I've heard, it seems our region's current leader is not a fan of the WA either, but because of how the leadership system works in ALL REGIONS, any nation that is to become a leader MUST be in the WA regardless of the region's stance on it. We promise to make this as much of a living hell for you as it is for us... maybe more."

Ambassador Kim proceeds to hand an envelope to the Defwa ambassador, containing a series of photographs depicting children masturbating, or preforming fellatio, and some lolicon hentai. After the envelope is on the Defwa desk, She proceeds to walk out the door, slamming it after her Nèi Yuán bodyguards follow her out.

*slides the half open envelope into the readily available incinerator chute on her desk*
Why did she even bring these?

OOC: Use a damn puppet and stop complaining

[Sween]

Ambassador Kim Eun Mi quietly picks up her documents and belongings, walks to the door, turns around, and Calmly says:

"We don't enjoy being here any more than you enjoy us being here. Sadly, you have not seen the last of me. Sween will remain in the WA until there is some method of having a non-WA nation be able to administrate a region, which it is not the founder, but an elected leader. From what I've heard, it seems our region's current leader is not a fan of the WA either, but because of how the leadership system works in ALL REGIONS, any nation that is to become a leader MUST be in the WA regardless of the region's stance on it. We promise to make this as much of a living hell for you as it is for us... maybe more."

Ambassador Kim proceeds to hand an envelope to the Defwa ambassador, containing a series of photographs depicting children masturbating, or preforming fellatio, and some lolicon hentai. After the envelope is on the Defwa desk, She proceeds to walk out the door, slamming it after her Nèi Yuán bodyguards follow her out.

*slides the half open envelope into the readily available incinerator chute on her desk*
Why did she even bring these?

it's part of Sween's culture a more literal interpretation of "give them shit!" In Sween's culture one will present somebody with something they know the recipient hates as an act of hostility. This is similar to giving somebody the middle finger or cursing at them.

She brought these pictures specifically for the purpose she used them for. A Sweenian ambassador is always taught: "When arguing have something to present your opponent to spite them, should they anger you, or insult our nation."

[Sauvage]

Giving an exasperated sigh. Implying we have any skilled artists willing to draw naked children in the first place, though it appears if the contempt held by the Sauvage goverment is anything to go by I won't need to burn my art on the wall depicting Cupid as a naked boy with wings and a bow.

It's not the subject stated by the representative. He has placed an embargo of sorts on the assembly for legalizing the killing for innocents and then turning around and pretending it loves those it condemns. I can't blame him.

You might. Its nigh impossible to say that you don't with certainty.
The point you brought up previously was regarding your people's ability to visually capture the banned subject and that is what I addressed however if you want to make this about abortion, I'm afraid you're confusing the intent of one of these resolutions.

Its a rabbit hole my fellow ambassadors would probably prefer I don't follow you down. One might even say you're baiting fire by bringing it up in a completely out of context and off topic manner.

"Sir, I'm just a translator, get off and talk to the big boy who left the room. The resolution will be ignored because it contradicts an existing resolution."

A rather more refined looking representative, though still the same man, wearing a military uniform complete with powdered wig walks back in.

"After speaking with the most excellent head of seats in Sauvage using the WA's wire T Savage the second has confirmed that the assembly is being inconsistent with its intent and the resolutions recently voted in and at vote currently are of undesirable taste.

On track with the current resolution, would this outlaw ultrasounds? Old art? Does it only apply to humans, what of the other sentient species such as the Equestrians or Reptilians? It's almost as if nothing was taken into account."

OOC: Do try to keep in mind this is some fake ass politics and the behavior exhibited by the writer does not in fact represent the user, Defwa. this isn't my actual views. This is a character, I find interaction in a different mind sharpens the brain for writing.

[Defwa]

You might. Its nigh impossible to say that you don't with certainty.
The point you brought up previously was regarding your people's ability to visually capture the banned subject and that is what I addressed however if you want to make this about abortion, I'm afraid you're confusing the intent of one of these resolutions.

Its a rabbit hole my fellow ambassadors would probably prefer I don't follow you down. One might even say you're baiting fire by bringing it up in a completely out of context and off topic manner.

"Sir, I'm just a translator, get off and talk to the big boy who left the room. The resolution will be ignored because it contradicts an existing resolution."

A rather more refined looking representative, though still the same man, wearing a military uniform complete with powdered wig walks back in.

"After speaking with the most excellent head of seats in Sauvage using the WA's wire T Savage the second has confirmed that the assembly is being inconsistent with its intent and the resolutions recently voted in and at vote currently are of undesirable taste.

On track with the current resolution, would this outlaw ultrasounds? Old art? Does it only apply to humans, what of the other sentient species such as the Equestrians or Reptilians? It's almost as if nothing was taken into account."

OOC: Do try to keep in mind this is some fake ass politics and the behavior exhibited by the writer does not in fact represent the user, Defwa. this isn't my actual views. This is a character, I find interaction in a different mind sharpens the brain for writing.

Well then don't make statements you don't have the power or knowledge to back up.

OOC: Random devils advocacy has no value.

[Sauvage]

OOC: You would imply that the characters views are wrong. In which case I would say you are incorrect, as you can't be certain your just bias or employing double-standards on your peers.

But then you would also be applying on a different level that you are the sole judge of what is allowed for RP. You get to chose what is relevant or not. That seems unfair to people who think differently. Unfortunately for you 100% of the people around you think differently, as their brains are wired differently. Like a fingerprint, to one man " Advocate" may be the most important thing in the mind of another.

Though I suppose purposefully taking the opposing side in this resolution for the sake of RP is asking for bad blood...Egh, it boils down to you being irrelevent in my mind, therefore making your opinion on my RP irrelevent to myself.

[Defwa]

OOC: You would imply that the characters views are wrong. In which case I would say you are incorrect, as you can't be certain your just bias or employing double-standards on your peers.

But then you would also be applying on a different level that you are the sole judge of what is allowed for RP. You get to chose what is relevant or not. That seems unfair to people who think differently. Unfortunately for you 100% of the people around you think differently, as their brains are wired differently. Like a fingerprint, to one man " Advocate" may be the most important thing in the mind of another.

Though I suppose purposefully taking the opposing side in this resolution for the sake of RP is asking for bad blood...Egh, it boils down to you being irrelevent in my mind, therefore making your opinion on my RP irrelevent to myself.

OOC: I did not imply that any views are wrong. What I said was that random devils advocacy has no value. That is to say spouting off a bunch of unrelated invalid interpretations does nothing constructive. It doesn't improve the debate. All it does is create something that may liberally be considered a list.
Just like claiming that defending bodily sovereignty contradicts with protecting children from exploitation. A willful denial of reality spurs vitriol and not growth.

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

nm.

[The Flood]

"We see a flaw in this; it specifies the age of consent as the barrier for child porn. What if a country says birth is the age of consent? Wouldn't that enable them to circumvent this resolution?"

[Mundiferrum]

"We see a flaw in this; it specifies the age of consent as the barrier for child porn. What if a country says birth is the age of consent? Wouldn't that enable them to circumvent this resolution?"

It would. Sadly, that loopyhole is practically unavoidable. But it's no reason to vote AGAINST this, since a lot of other resolutions concerning Age of Consent have, I believe, that loopyhole too.

[The Flood]

"We see a flaw in this; it specifies the age of consent as the barrier for child porn. What if a country says birth is the age of consent? Wouldn't that enable them to circumvent this resolution?"

It would. Sadly, that loopyhole is practically unavoidable. But it's no reason to vote AGAINST this, since a lot of other resolutions concerning Age of Consent have, I believe, that loopyhole too.

"Aye, despite the flaw we have still voted for this resolution. Just think of the children!"

[Wrapper]

"We see a flaw in this; it specifies the age of consent as the barrier for child porn. What if a country says birth is the age of consent? Wouldn't that enable them to circumvent this resolution?"

Hypothetically this would be true... within your nation. You still can't export it to other nations that have established an age of consent. And, you would not only be circumventing this resolution, but all GA resolutions that protect children -- which likely would result in embargoes from many reasonable nations, which would harm your country much, much more than the economic benefit of child porn.

[Wrapper]

Ari is delighted at the vote thus far, but still, something somewhat troubling catches his eye.

Votes Against: 564: Duck-Boss (47), Kikpar (44)

Top two to vote against are Black Riders delegates controlling Anarchy and Ixnay. How... er... "interesting". Must be the anti-establishment vote and nothing else, for sure... but still... it does make one wonder about those folks.

[The North Pacific League]

We would support this if it didn't ban animation that is "too realistic", which is difficult if not impossible to define, and further absurd in that an animated character has no actual age (at least, as a person), not being a person at all.

Further, unpleasant as it is to think of, and admitting that the people of the world tend to have little sympathy for pedophiles, there are no doubt some who never abuse children in spite of their inclinations or attractions. One of the few harmless outlets these people have, and which may actually prevent them from engaging in acts with real children, is animated and "literary" pornography. It is a distasteful subject, but one has to be as objective as possible when considering legislation.

It would be nice to think that all pedophiles would seek psychotherapy and somehow be "cured", but that is not realistic and may even be an impossible or at least vanishingly unlikely outcome. It seems that pornography which appeals to them but doesn't involve real children in its production in any way is likely to be a benefit to society, therefore, even if most of us find it repulsive.

[Separatist Peoples]

Ambassador Kim Eun Mi quietly picks up her documents and belongings, walks to the door, turns around, and Calmly says:

"We don't enjoy being here any more than you enjoy us being here. Sadly, you have not seen the last of me. Sween will remain in the WA until there is some method of having a non-WA nation be able to administrate a region, which it is not the founder, but an elected leader. From what I've heard, it seems our region's current leader is not a fan of the WA either, but because of how the leadership system works in ALL REGIONS, any nation that is to become a leader MUST be in the WA regardless of the region's stance on it. We promise to make this as much of a living hell for you as it is for us... maybe more."

Ambassador Kim proceeds to hand an envelope to the Defwa ambassador, containing a series of photographs depicting children masturbating, or preforming fellatio, and some lolicon hentai. After the envelope is on the Defwa desk, She proceeds to walk out the door, slamming it after her Nèi Yuán bodyguards follow her out.

"If that's how you plan on playing this hand, you're likely going to lose. The WA representatives don't play by the same rules as normal folk. The Snakepit breaks something...on the inside..."

[Wrapper]

We would support this if it didn't ban animation that is "too realistic"....

Ambassador, what we tried to achieve with this clause is to prevent the production of, just to give an example, lifelike computer-generated animation using a real child's likeness on a CGI body. Would this not harm such a child, emotionally and mentally, to have someone publicly display such images?

One of the few harmless outlets these people have, and which may actually prevent them from engaging in acts with real children, is animated and "literary" pornography.

This is debatable point, but it is also a moot point, most animation and all literature are not included in this ban.

[The Dark Star Republic]

Top two to vote against are Black Riders delegates controlling Anarchy and Ixnay. How... er... "interesting". Must be the anti-establishment vote and nothing else, for sure... but still... it does make one wonder about those folks. :unsure:

OOC: There's an amusing discussion of this issue in Gameplay. But it also means your resolution is passing by an even larger margin, if you discount those. This looks set to be, unless I'm mistaken, the biggest margin in percentage terms, ever - counting NSUN and WA!

[The North Pacific League]

We would support this if it didn't ban animation that is "too realistic"....

Ambassador, what we tried to achieve with this clause is to prevent the production of, just to give an example, lifelike computer-generated animation using a real child's likeness on a CGI body. Would this not harm such a child, emotionally and mentally, to have someone publicly display such images?

One of the few harmless outlets these people have, and which may actually prevent them from engaging in acts with real children, is animated and "literary" pornography.

This is debatable point, but it is also a moot point, most animation and all literature are not included in this ban.

But some animation is included, and in legislating we have to consider also issues of precedent. Banning the representation of a crime or the viewing of such a representation must certainly be seen as a harmful precedent.

As a parallel we would support legislation banning "snuff films", but not if it included a clause that also banned "realistic", but fictional or false, depictions of murder.

[Mundiferrum]

Ambassador Kim Eun Mi quietly picks up her documents and belongings, walks to the door, turns around, and Calmly says:

"We don't enjoy being here any more than you enjoy us being here. Sadly, you have not seen the last of me. Sween will remain in the WA until there is some method of having a non-WA nation be able to administrate a region, which it is not the founder, but an elected leader. From what I've heard, it seems our region's current leader is not a fan of the WA either, but because of how the leadership system works in ALL REGIONS, any nation that is to become a leader MUST be in the WA regardless of the region's stance on it. We promise to make this as much of a living hell for you as it is for us... maybe more."

Ambassador Kim proceeds to hand an envelope to the Defwa ambassador, containing a series of photographs depicting children masturbating, or preforming fellatio, and some lolicon hentai. After the envelope is on the Defwa desk, She proceeds to walk out the door, slamming it after her Nèi Yuán bodyguards follow her out.

"If that's how you plan on playing this hand, you're likely going to lose. The WA representatives don't play by the same rules as normal folk. The Snakepit breaks something...on the inside..."

The liver? I mean, with all the drinks offered in the Strangers' Bar....
OOC: You could have a semi-autonomous section of your nation that is considered as a different nation in-game as your region's WA delegate. That might work, I guess.

Ambassador, what we tried to achieve with this clause is to prevent the production of, just to give an example, lifelike computer-generated animation using a real child's likeness on a CGI body. Would this not harm such a child, emotionally and mentally, to have someone publicly display such images?


This is debatable point, but it is also a moot point, most animation and all literature are not included in this ban.

But some animation is included, and in legislating we have to consider also issues of precedent. Banning the representation of a crime or the viewing of such a representation must certainly be seen as a harmful precedent.

I believe the realistic depiction thing was added because of THINK OF THE CHILDREN; that is, it is difficult to distinguish between these realistic shows and the real ones, which would of course make enforcement of the ban really, really difficult. And since this crime deals with, well, images, images like the images do in fact fall into the same category; ie the relationship between murder and an image that looks like murder is different from the relationship between child porn and an image like child porn, since the thing that makes murder a generally bad thing isn't related to its image, or what people see from it, as opposed to child pornography (yes, this might sorta not make any sense).

And the precedent isn't really set, since the representation thing was only an expansion of the definition, not an actual additional legislative measure (again, this might actually not make sense).