[PASSED] Insta-Repeal "Liberate Hogwarts"

[Errum]

Aba, please teach me your badass ways so I may become awesome like you

Also, full support. Liberate Hogwarts was and is a sad blemish on this prestigious council that deserves to burn.

[Mousebumples]

Got a counter-campaign TG on this one that I thought I'd post here for public dissemination - i.e. to allow Aba to refute the claims therein, should he so choose.

Greetings, Esteemed Delegate Mousebumples,

Would you like it if your home region was invaded, griefed and then purged of all its residents?

This very question is why I am contacting you today with respect to your vote for Repeal "Liberate Hogwarts", because I believe you have been manipulated by the author of this proposal,Abacathea, into supporting something that you would actually be against if you knew all the facts. Abacathea is a friend of the condemned invader group the Lone Wolves United, and thus has an interest in deceiving you to vote for his proposal, which essentially supports rights of conquest, saying that if your region is invaded, griefed and purged of all its residents, that is something that is okay and something the Security Council should support.

Why should you withdraw your approval for Repeal "Liberate Hogwarts"?

Here are the facts:

1). Lone Wolves United, the condemned invader group, invaded Hogwarts in March of this year. When they invaded, they piled their military forces into the region, with the assistance of other condemned groups, such as the Black Riders. During this time, they ejected and banned the natives of Hogwarts, and refounded the region to claim it as a colony in part of their mission to expand their invading empire. Those natives that they banned are now living outside Hogwarts, in exile. Why is Hogwarts now founderless again? Because the invader founder who refounded Hogwarts after ejecting all the natives was found to be a DOS (Delete-On-Sight) player, and was deleted by the administration that runs this site. Only the most egregious and terrible rule-breakers earn the DOS status, which means all their nations get deleted whenever they login to the site.

2). Lone Wolves United are not the natives of Hogwarts unless you believe that you can be a native of a place by conquest alone. So consider this: If your region was invaded by Lone Wolves United and they then kicked you and all the other residents out, would your region now belong to the Lone Wolves United? More importantly, ought it to belong to the Lone Wolves United? I think not, like most people I think if someone carjacks you and steals your car, it is still your car, and they don't own it just because they took it from you. Might doesn't equal right, but the proposal you have voted for says exactly that, might makes right. Basically, Abacathea is saying that because Lone Wolves United invaded and purged the region, it now belongs the them and the rights of the former residents who got purged means nothing.

3). Hogwarts was not a dying region, but a place that has true-natives that were purged from their region by Lone Wolves United, and they want their home back. One such native is The Evacuating Nation of Darth Lord Proctos, who is living in exile after being kicked out of Hogwarts by the Lone Wolves United. Just imagine if you were kicked out of your region by invaders, you would want your region to be free and liberated as well. The proposal claims natives like Proctos were not consulted in the Liberation, but that is false. If you go here: viewtopic.php?p=20276203#p20276203 you will see that Proctos supports the original Liberation proposal and wants his home back.

4). This proposal claims I am biased against Lone Wolves United merely because they are Lone Wolves United, and that this proposal is being used as a weapon. Nothing could be further from the truth. It is about what the Lone Wolves United do and what they did, not about a bias because of who they are. If they consulted natives like Proctos before invading and refounding, then that wouldn't be a problem. But they invaded and purged the region against its wishes, when it was trying to defend itself. Do you believe invasions are good? Do you believe that regions should be invaded and lose all their residents to invading forces? If so, then you acted correctly when you approved this proposal.

But if you are like me and believe that the Security Council, whose mission it is to spread interregional peace and goodwill, should not be supporting an invasion and grief of a region, in this case Hogwarts, then I ask that you stand with me and the natives of Hogwarts and withdraw your approval of Repeal "Liberate Hogwarts".

Please stand with me and the natives of Hogwarts as we seek to see this duplicitous proposal defeated, in the hope that all of us may be free from invasions and the negative effects they bring to our communities.

This is a pile of hogwash and double talk, if you ask me (Mouse-the-player). I remain in support of this repeal.

[Abacathea]

OMG what am I reading!?!?!?

Abacathea has to go guys, Blue Wolf needs to give him more orders about what to say.

CARJACKING IS GOOD! RAIDING IS GOOD! INVASIONS ARE GOOD!

Abacathea are you serious? I hope you get purged and then when you cry about what happened we can all point you to your own words, oh no wait, that won't happen because you will recant and have no problem being a hypocrite.

FREE HOGWARTS Y'ALL

Oh, another puppet, or more likely a noob or both. I'd pay to see you purge The North Pacific. I'll also laugh till my lungs shrivel when you fail. I doubt the likelihood of me ever having to eat any of my own words in this regard is high. Also raiding is actually good, on an off topic slight, if it wasn't, there wouldn't be any need for self inflated egos like yours to come to the SC and wave your penis for the world to see would there?

And I find the idea that I answer to Blue wolf laughable at best. (no offence blue )

[District XIV]

Got a counter-campaign TG on this one that I thought I'd post here for public dissemination - i.e. to allow Aba to refute the claims therein, should he so choose.

-snip-

This is a pile of hogwash and double talk, if you ask me (Mouse-the-player). I remain in support of this repeal.

If anything, we need a campaign that supports the repeal.

[Abacathea]

Also, question to Mr Potter, is the reason you're still hiding behind your shell, running counter campaigns full of nonsense, and failing to provide any evidence to support your rhetoric because you're afraid that your own region will be "purged"? I suspect it is. That and your distinct lack of evidence. Thats a biggie. You have nothing, and have evaded admitting that from the start. Your cowardice is laughable. And your counter-campaign only shows how scared you are of this hitting the floor.

[Mousebumples]

Got a counter-campaign TG on this one that I thought I'd post here for public dissemination - i.e. to allow Aba to refute the claims therein, should he so choose.



This is a pile of hogwash and double talk, if you ask me (Mouse-the-player). I remain in support of this repeal.

If anything, we need a campaign that supports the repeal.

I believe each side is limited to 1 telegram pre-vote and 1 telegram post-vote. I don't know that a counter-counter TG would be legal at this point (not a mod ruling - more my understanding as a player from years of playing in the WA sandbox), so I'd suggest said counter-counter TG be saved for the At Vote period. But that's not to say that something couldn't be edited into the OP - or linked from the OP - to counter that misinformation.

[District XIV]

I wasn't recommending doing something like that, just saying a counter-campaign is stupid.

[Vaculatestar64]

I think it's cute that not only are these guys against the repeal rewording the same argument over and over without ever actually refuting any of Aba'a arguments with any sort of success, but they are also to scared to claim there ideas. If they can't even do that, then in my opinion there ideas aren't worth a wooden nickle.

[New Harry Potter]

Also, question to Mr Potter, is the reason you're still hiding behind your shell, running counter campaigns full of nonsense, and failing to provide any evidence to support your rhetoric because you're afraid that your own region will be "purged"? I suspect it is. That and your distinct lack of evidence. Thats a biggie. You have nothing, and have evaded admitting that from the start. Your cowardice is laughable. And your counter-campaign only shows how scared you are of this hitting the floor.

What evidence have I failed to provide? All of my talk has been based off of evidence.

the natives did not flame the RMB, Lone Wolves United simply mocked them.

Proof for you claim, sir?

Look at the RMB yourself, or rather, look at it right here:

Gryffidor
54 days ago
Has the glory of hogwarts returned? Are the lone wolves kicked out?

The Disputed Territories of Where Thafurkawie
54 days ago
Oh the glory has returned all right, under the watchful and merciless eye of the Death Eaters (and their wolves of varying pack size).
Your region is toast buddy, you can go back to normal school now.

Le petit prince
54 days ago
Reading is hard.

Gryffidor
53 days ago
"Against Raiders United, there can be no victory."
Victory is always possible for someone who never stops believing.

Le petit prince
53 days ago
Gryffidor wrote:
"Against Raiders United, there can be no victory."
Victory is always possible for someone who never stops believing.
No it isn't, that is sappy nonsense.
SAPPY LIKE A SAP TREE

Gryffidor
53 days ago
Well, Harry Potter did defeat Voldemort, just like I will defeat you, you "Wolfiemort".

Le petit prince
53 days ago
I highly doubt that on so many levels.
High like going up a skyscraper on an elevator.
But I will let you stay here, because I am a benevolent ruler of Hogwarts, where Albus Dumbledore is a meanie head.

The Disputed Territories of Where Thafurkawie
53 days ago
I wonder how long his beard kept growing after he died? Aaaaaages I bet- everyone knows that wizards keep some reserve magic in their beards.
Hey Gryf, ever thought of raiding?

Gryffidor
51 days ago
Leave Dumbledore's beard out of this. That is a touchy subject. And Dumbledore is not a meanie head, he's a potterhead. And I won't follow your footsteps and "raid".

Le petit prince
51 days ago
You should. You'd lose less.

The Disputed Territories of Where Thafurkawie
49 days ago
Imagine the wfe you could have!
"This region has been conqueored by the forces of good in the name of muggles and wizards everywhere!
Dumbeldore lives on!"
...or some such =P

The Disputed Territories of Where Thafurkawie
49 days ago
minus the sausage fingered typos of course.

Gryffidor
44 days ago
We want democracy!!! We want Elections!!! Down with Wolfiemort!!! We want Hogwarts back!!!

Le petit prince
43 days ago
Who are you talking to?

Gryffidor
43 days ago
I don't know, maybe myself.

"Reading is hard" and "your region is toast" are mocking. So is calling himself a "benevolent ruler" after he purged the region, and saying "you'd lose less" and asking "who are you talking to?" is also rude. Meanwhile, Gryffidor did not flame and wanted them to leave. Encouraging him to instead join the raiding side is a form of mockery as well, mocking the native who we have defeated, now let us tell him to join us if he wants to stop being a loser.

This shows clearly the character of the Lone Wolves United occupiers vis-a-vis the true-natives.

I think it's cute that not only are these guys against the repeal rewording the same argument over and over without ever actually refuting any of Aba'a arguments with any sort of success, but they are also to scared to claim there ideas. If they can't even do that, then in my opinion there ideas aren't worth a wooden nickle.

Oh look, a member of the invading party pretending he doesn't already have a dog in this fight! How cute!

[District XIV]

I think it's cute that not only are these guys against the repeal rewording the same argument over and over without ever actually refuting any of Aba'a arguments with any sort of success, but they are also to scared to claim there ideas. If they can't even do that, then in my opinion there ideas aren't worth a wooden nickle.

They also hide behind puppets while doing this stuff.

[Vaculatestar64]

At least I'm willing to stand behind it. Hell, my actual NS persona name is in my puppets name.

Oh and also, it's your Lib up for repeal I believe, so don't try to act like you don't have a "dog in the fight".

[District XIV]

The only nations I've seen defend the liberation are:

Through the Breach (puppet)
New Harry Potter (puppet)
Defendingg (gave up a while ago)

All of which have provided poor arguments.

[New Harry Potter]

At least I'm willing to stand behind it. Hell, my actual NS persona name is in my puppets name.

Oh and also, it's your Lib up for repeal I believe, so don't try to act like you don't have a "dog in the fight".

I've already gotten my badge for it, if all I cared about was myself, then my part would be over. My dog is the true-natives of Hogwarts, while you are an invader and support the invaders.

[Errum]

Hmmm.. Methinks I smell a Frak-Attack

If not Frak, a wannabee version at the very least.

[Vaculatestar64]

At least I'm willing to stand behind it. Hell, my actual NS persona name is in my puppets name.

Oh and also, it's your Lib up for repeal I believe, so don't try to act like you don't have a "dog in the fight".

I've already gotten my badge for it, if all I cared about was myself, then my part would be over. My dog is the true-natives of Hogwarts, while you are an invader and support the invaders.

You moralists are cute. Especially when you're being hypocritical and don't even realize it/refuse to recognize it.

[New Harry Potter]

I've already gotten my badge for it, if all I cared about was myself, then my part would be over. My dog is the true-natives of Hogwarts, while you are an invader and support the invaders.

You moralists are cute. Especially when you're being hypocritical and don't even realize it/refuse to recognize it.

lol, now you are just making accusations. Nothing I said there was hypocritical, I am merely saying that if all I cared about was getting my badge, then I wouldn't still be here arguing against the proposal. What is so hypocritical about that?

And you are supporting the invaders, that is a fact.

[Vaculatestar64]

So you admit that your only argument is that raiding is bad, and raiders themselves are bad. In spite of the fact that after the refounding of the region we were allowing people to come and go as they pleased. In fact from what I'm told people were actually wanting to roleplay in the region. Your liberation destroyed that. Now it is a battleground, a warzone, to be fought over continuously as long as this liberation is in place.

[Evil Wolf]

-SNIP-

Yeah, so I went ahead and took the liberty of looking up New Harry Potter's prime example of a "true native", Gryffidor. Guess what I found?

I think some of my troops have more time in Hogwarts than the guy. He was in region for less than 120 days, all total, so less than 4 months, a full month of which is during the time period after we refounded.

And this is Hogwarts, a region that's more or less been around since 2003! If we're not natives, that guy surely isn't either. And whats more, New Harry Potter has been claiming that we, LWU, have been committing all sorts of horrors against the "true natives of Hogwarts" and yet Gryffidor, who walked into the region looking for an argument and got one in reply, was never banned from the region (not even during the refounding stage as he was sitting in Lazarus the whole time) and was allowed to peacefully CTE within the limits of Hogwarts.

In other words, everything that guy just said is Bull. Thank you.

[New Harry Potter]

So you admit that your only argument is that raiding is bad, and raiders themselves are bad. In spite of the fact that after the refounding of the region we were allowing people to come and go as they pleased. In fact from what I'm told people were actually wanting to roleplay in the region. Your liberation destroyed that. Now it is a battleground, a warzone, to be fought over continuously as long as this liberation is in place.

My argument is that invading, purging, and griefing a region is bad, yes. I'm still not seeing your alleged hypocrisy.

Letting people come and go as they please doesn't make it any less bad, because while you did let them come back, they had to do so under occupation and mockery on the RMB.

-snip-

Yeah, no. Not a single member of your army has more time logged in Hogwarts than Gryffidor. And all you've proven is he spent most of his life in Hogwarts.

Asking for elections is not looking for a fight.

[Rolvic]

So you admit that your only argument is that raiding is bad, and raiders themselves are bad. In spite of the fact that after the refounding of the region we were allowing people to come and go as they pleased. In fact from what I'm told people were actually wanting to roleplay in the region. Your liberation destroyed that. Now it is a battleground, a warzone, to be fought over continuously as long as this liberation is in place.

My argument is that invading, purging, and griefing a region is bad, yes. I'm still not seeing your alleged hypocrisy.

Letting people come and go as they please doesn't make it any less bad, because while you did let them come back, they had to do so under occupation and mockery on the RMB.

-snip-

Yeah, no. Not a single member of your army has more time logged in Hogwarts than Gryffidor. And all you've proven is he spent most of his life in Hogwarts.

Asking for elections is not looking for a fight.

Here's a question you have not yet answered (and when you PMed me you seemed to be avoiding it).

Why now?

This happened months ago but you did not try to use legislation to uproot the Lone Wolves United until very recently.

When I first asked you, your answer was pretty much "Why not?" but that's not a good reason at all.

[New Harry Potter]

Don't misrepresent.

I didn't say "Why not?" I explained why it didn't happen the first time and that your logic of "it happened two months ago so now it is okay" made no sense.

If I commit a crime and get caught two months later, they don't just let me go.

It doesn't matter that the initial invasion was two months ago and that they refounded it while a liberation proposal was being discussed.

What matters is that we are dealing with this now.

[Evil Wolf]

Yeah, no. Not a single member of your army has more time logged in Hogwarts than Gryffidor. And all you've proven is he spent most of his life in Hogwarts.

His very short "set your puppet on vacation mode and CTE twice" life?

That's a pretty thin claim for him to be a native. I think Albus Perceval Wulfric Brian Dumbledore can claim to be more of a native than Gryffidor, and poor old Albus only has 35+ days in Hogwarts to claim in his name. In his case, we've now controlled the region for longer than he was ever a resident.

A few months ago Hogwarts was down to one nation. One. Then Albus Perceval Wulfric Brian Dumbledor, also known as the condemned role-player Aglrinia from The Versutian Federation tried to refound the region. He wasn't a native, but Defenders seemed pretty content with his attempts to refound just the same, the region was practically dead at that point. He only failed because we beat him to the punch.

The region is ours because we fought for it, not against natives but against The Versutian Federation lead by Aglrinia, and won. We are the true natives of Hogwarts and everyone else who might have had claim to that status forfeited their claim when they either CTE'd or left the region back in February.

[Rolvic]

Don't misrepresent.

I didn't say "Why not?" I explained why it didn't happen the first time and that your logic of "it happened two months ago so now it is okay" made no sense.

If I commit a crime and get caught two months later, they don't just let me go.

It doesn't matter that the initial invasion was two months ago and that they refounded it while a liberation proposal was being discussed.

What matters is that we are dealing with this now.

Still didn't answer the question of why.

And they're not "getting caught," you're just finally getting around to filing the complaint that you had months ago. That makes this not ok and that's why I am strongly against it.

And by "Why not?" I meant that when I asked why now your response was essentially "Why not now?"

[New Harry Potter]

Don't misrepresent.

I didn't say "Why not?" I explained why it didn't happen the first time and that your logic of "it happened two months ago so now it is okay" made no sense.

If I commit a crime and get caught two months later, they don't just let me go.

It doesn't matter that the initial invasion was two months ago and that they refounded it while a liberation proposal was being discussed.

What matters is that we are dealing with this now.

Still didn't answer the question of why.

And they're not "getting caught," you're just finally getting around to filing the complaint that you had months ago. That makes this not ok and that's why I am strongly against it.

And by "Why not?" I meant that when I asked why now your response was essentially "Why not now?"

The why is because the founder got DOS so we have another chance to free the region because a liberation only affects delegate imposed barriers to entry, which Lone Wolves United was going to create before the Liberation went into effect. We couldn't do anything about it before because they refounded before the previous liberation could go through.

[Evil Wolf]

New Harry Potter didn't have much of a problem when The Versutian Federation tried to refound the region for themselves, a mission we scrubbed with our own refounding. But then again, that puppet didn't exist then.

I wounder if that puppet would exist now and have proposed a Liberation Proposal for Hogwarts had the defender-leaning The Versutian Federation refounded the region instead of the Famed Crasher region Lone Wolves United? I'm guessing not.