[PASSED] Liberate Slavia

[Port blood]

Let me clear a few things out for you comrade, as you seem pretty ignorant of the fact:
1.We joined the FRA for a short period and we left it, and announced it on their forums on christmas eve. We even raided a region (greece).That said, It's not our responsibility that they failed to remove our name from their list, and the failure of the raiders to even acknowledge basic facts about our region before raiding it.
2. Since they raid it Slavia just a day after turning founderless, and while half our forces, which were in Greece at that moment, haven't had the time to even react to the status, so we didn't "fail" to look after our security.
3. Our founder was deleted unjustly by the mods, so your claim of "The founder didn't care about the region & CTE'd" is very naive.

I ask you to check your infos before speaking.

1.So,its the raiders fault you forgot to ask them to remove your name from the list?
2/3.you had your troops outside your region,so your at fault as you could just have recalled them to your region when your founder CTE'd,plus if you think he was deleted "unjustly" please take it up in the moderation sub-forum,not in the SC

[
Yes indeed I asked our allies to vote for the resolution, I don't need to ask my fellow Slavian as they would surely vote for it.
And I don't know if you have a bloody clue about what this resolution stands for. We want to prevent the region to ever being locked down, because that's their final aim. If we act after the region is locked down we might just let them have it don't you think? And maybe, when this resolution passes, they comeback to their senses and change their style.

I do have a "bloody clue" about what this resolution stands for:not being able to read and research
Look at the other draft topic for this liberation,several concerns were raised

You are basically asking for the delegate to be removed from his seat, and for this you need defenders or a lot of endorsements to counter his power. You would be better off pleading a case to the UDL or other groups like that for a physical liberation. If this passes it would basically be a big red arrow pointing to Slavia for defenders, but it does not mean they will necessarily assist.

How about we wait until there is an actual password in place? Also just so you guys know that by taking away the region's password that it will forever be a warzone until it CTEs? Because of its FRA membership I will definitely hit this region every time I can, if it's not refounded.

Just because I'm a raider doesn't mean my logic isn't correct. =P Without a repeal, a liberation will turn Slavia into a war zone that raiders will go out of their way to hit. Honestly, it might be better for the community to try to snag the refound, and also have a back up region. Now debate with me all you please but don't just dismiss me. Thanks Feux.

Long story short,liberation is unpractical

[Elke and Elba]

There's quite a lot of good response for Milo but my question is - did he even consulted the natives? (wait, I take that back)

Given that many have moved to Slavya or Slavska (?)

I just realised that the Republic of Slovsko (aka Slavska's WA delegate) asked Slavya and Slavska to vote for it.

I'm thinking that they don't have a bloody clue what a liberation does. (Although I might be wrong.)

Oh. My. Goodness.

Oh. Mine.

P.S. Do note that Slavia isn't locked. Delegacy has enough power to banject many people I believe. They should not be so careless in the first place.
P.S. Ponderosa - it almost sounds like a Spongebob song!

Yes indeed I asked our allies to vote for the resolution, I don't need to ask my fellow Slavian as they would surely vote for it.
And I don't know if you have a bloody clue about what this resolution stands for. We want to prevent the region to ever being locked down, because that's their final aim. If we act after the region is locked down we might just let them have it don't you think? And maybe, when this resolution passes, they comeback to their senses and change their style.

Err, if the raiders ever change their style, I'll gladly type a commendation just for you.
Just so you know it won't happen in a million years.

Really, you should go ask for help from the other defenders other than FRA. But whatever the case - burning bridges with FRA kinda puts you off with the defenders, so it might actually have been a really good calculated move by the raiders, after all.

[Port blood]

And maybe, when this resolution passes, they comeback to their senses and change their style.

Err, if the raiders ever change their style, I'll gladly type a commendation just for you.
Just so you know it won't happen in a million years.

Completely missed that sentence lol
You know,if you think raiders can change,you already discredited yourself as we already have "sense"

[Elke and Elba]

Err, if the raiders ever change their style, I'll gladly type a commendation just for you.
Just so you know it won't happen in a million years.

Completely missed that sentence lol
You know,if you think raiders can change,you already discredited yourself as we already have "sense"

I didn't *claim* raiders don't have sense. I only claimed they won't change their style for Slovsko.

And btw, you aren't a raider - you're an ex-raider, just so to be picky.

[Port blood]

I didn't *claim* raiders don't have sense. I only claimed they won't change their style for Slovsko.

And btw, you aren't a raider - you're an ex-raider, just so to be picky.

I was talking to Slovsko about the sense thing
Also,I don't actively raid,but i still have a raider mentality

[Chester Pearson]

AGAINST! This is without merit. There is no PW in place. The region took sides in R/D by joining a fenda organisation (FRA). The founder didn't care about the region & CTE'd, the residents failed to look to their security & PW. The fendas failed to take steps to protect the region.

Fendas take up the time of this body with these liberations when they've failed as in this case. They also spend a deal of time 'commending' each other usually on the clearly spurious basis of their 'heroic' defending.

Fellow delegates lets put a stop to this! vote no to these liberations & repeal defender activity based commendations.

Typical reaction from The Internationale.... We vote FOR this resolution.

[Port blood]

AGAINST! This is without merit. There is no PW in place. The region took sides in R/D by joining a fenda organisation (FRA). The founder didn't care about the region & CTE'd, the residents failed to look to their security & PW. The fendas failed to take steps to protect the region.

Fendas take up the time of this body with these liberations when they've failed as in this case. They also spend a deal of time 'commending' each other usually on the clearly spurious basis of their 'heroic' defending.

Fellow delegates lets put a stop to this! vote no to these liberations & repeal defender activity based commendations.

Typical reaction from The Internationale.... We vote FOR this resolution.

Is he even from TI?
Besides why are you voting for because another nation votes against? It's a new high point of prejudice

[SkyDip]

Typical reaction from The Internationale.... We vote FOR this resolution.

Is he even from TI?
Besides why are you voting for because another nation votes against? It's a new high point of prejudice

Where did the man say that because the Internationale was against that he was voting for?

[The North Polish Union]

Let me clear a few things out for you comrade, as you seem pretty ignorant of the fact:
1.We joined the FRA for a short period and we left it, and announced it on their forums on christmas eve. We even raided a region (greece).That said, It's not our responsibility that they failed to remove our name from their list, and the failure of the raiders to even acknowledge basic facts about our region before raiding it.
2. Since they raid it Slavia just a day after turning founderless, and while half our forces, which were in Greece at that moment, haven't had the time to even react to the status, so we didn't "fail" to look after our security.
3. Our founder was deleted unjustly by the mods, so your claim of "The founder didn't care about the region & CTE'd" is very naive.

I ask you to check your infos before speaking.

1.So,its the raiders fault you forgot to ask them to remove your name from the list?
2/3.you had your troops outside your region,so your at fault as you could just have recalled them to your region when your founder CTE'd,plus if you think he was deleted "unjustly" please take it up in the moderation sub-forum,not in the SC

It should be noted that what I objected to wass not so much the raid itself since, as a raider, I believe that if founderless regions do not take adequate security measures its their own fault that they were raided. What I object to is the UIAF's justification for the raid being that we were currently FRA members, which is complete and utter slanderous bullshit.

[Port blood]

Oh boy,here we go
Let me quote some of your own words

2. Since they raid it Slavia just a day after turning founderless, and while half our forces, which were in Greece at that moment, haven't had the time to even react to the status, so we didn't "fail" to look after our security.

Implies you're objecting to the raid as well
Plus as i said before:

1.So,its the raiders fault you forgot to ask them to remove your name from the list?

[/quote]
You had plenty time to get your name removed from the list,you had more then a week to do so

Oh,and if anyone is giving "complete and utter slanderous bullshit" it's you
You said the following things in this thread alone
[*]is very naive.
[*]to even acknowledge basic facts about our region before raiding it.
[*]they comeback to their senses and change their style.
Which can be considered slander as well,so I'd like to request you threat everyone here with respect

[The Distributed Republic of Papoon]

Can't we try trade sanctions first?

[Port blood]

Is he even from TI?
Besides why are you voting for because another nation votes against? It's a new high point of prejudice

Where did the man say that because the Internationale was against that he was voting for?

The construct of the sentence does strongly imply it,and even if he didn't,why bother mentioning it?

Can't we try trade sanctions first?

....to a raider region? over GP?

[SkyDip]

Where did the man say that because the Internationale was against that he was voting for?

The construct of the sentence does strongly imply it,and even if he didn't,why bother mentioning it?

You brought it up and now you're questioning me for "mentioning it?"

Apparently now we can't string two thoughts together without one being causative to the other.

[The South Polish Union]

Oh boy,here we go
Let me quote some of your own words

2. Since they raid it Slavia just a day after turning founderless, and while half our forces, which were in Greece at that moment, haven't had the time to even react to the status, so we didn't "fail" to look after our security.

Implies you're objecting to the raid as well
Plus as i said before:

1.So,its the raiders fault you forgot to ask them to remove your name from the list?

You had plenty time to get your name removed from the list,you had more then a week to do so

Oh,and if anyone is giving "complete and utter slanderous bullshit" it's you
You said the following things in this thread alone
[*]is very naive.
[*]to even acknowledge basic facts about our region before raiding it.
[*]they comeback to their senses and change their style.
Which can be considered slander as well,so I'd like to request you threat everyone here with respect

1.) I am not Slovsko am am not responsible for his actions, nor should his words be read as mine.

2.) The FRA made no indication to Slavia that they were still on the list even after we had withdrawn. Our statement of December 24 announcing out withdrawal to the FRA was very clear in its wording and left no doubt as to Slavia was actually leaving or not. Our name should have been removed from the list on December 24 or the next day. Even with the holidays, most of the FRA administration was online at one time or another and even posted in our resignation thread; they had the opportunity to remove Slavia from the list immediately as they should've done. The fact that the FRA cannot be bothered to keep their membership list current is not Slavia's responsibility, nor is it acceptable that Slavia should be misconstrued as an FRA member so long after their withdrawal.

Literally any justification for the raid (or even no justification at all) other than the fallacious and malicious justification given would have been acceptable to me as a raider. It is the implication that Slavia was an FRA member at the time of the raid that is objectionable to me. Such an accusation is a full frontal attack on the moral integrity of Slavia and is not to be taken lightly.

[Port blood]

The construct of the sentence does strongly imply it,and even if he didn't,why bother mentioning it?

You brought it up and now you're questioning me for "mentioning it?"

Apparently now we can't string two thoughts together without one being causative to the other.

I seem to have some trouble addressing the right person today,the "mentioning it" part was meant like "even if he didnt mean he voted FOR because TI voted against,why did he even bother bringing it up?"
Besides,if someone goes like
something something something.....something something something,I'm assuming the first statement leads to the second statement,as in
"TI voted against this resolution....so I'm voting for it",but Chester Pearson can clarify this if he wants,until then I'm assuming that is what he meant

[SkyDip]

You brought it up and now you're questioning me for "mentioning it?"

Apparently now we can't string two thoughts together without one being causative to the other.

I seem to have some trouble addressing the right person today,the "mentioning it" part was meant like "even if he didnt mean he voted FOR because TI voted against,why did he even bother bringing it up?"
Besides,if someone goes like
something something something.....something something something,I'm assuming the first statement leads to the second statement,as in
"TI voted against this resolution....so I'm voting for it",but Chester Pearson can clarify this if he wants,until then I'm assuming that is what he meant

Knowing the honorable Mr. Pearson as I do, I would strongly disagree with that assumption and would be so bold as to state that he probably has his own personal reason for voting the way he is. Chester has more enough than enough experience to form his own well-informed opinion.

[Port blood]

Oops,sorry @The South Polish Union,with your wording("what I objected to"),and the first post being quoted was from Slovsko,I assumed it was his as i didnt notice the avatar,sorry about that,not in the best physical state today

2.) The FRA made no indication to Slavia that they were still on the list even after we had withdrawn. Our statement of December 24 announcing out withdrawal to the FRA was very clear in its wording and left no doubt as to Slavia was actually leaving or not. Our name should have been removed from the list on December 24 or the next day. Even with the holidays, most of the FRA administration was online at one time or another and even posted in our resignation thread; they had the opportunity to remove Slavia from the list immediately as they should've done. The fact that the FRA cannot be bothered to keep their membership list current is not Slavia's responsibility, nor is it acceptable that Slavia should be misconstrued as an FRA member so long after their withdrawal.

If you didn't want to be associated with the FRA,you should have taken better care in making sure you were off the list

Literally any justification for the raid (or even no justification at all) other than the fallacious and malicious justification given would have been acceptable to me as a raider. It is the implication that Slavia was an FRA member at the time of the raid that is objectionable to me. Such an accusation is a full frontal attack on the moral integrity of Slavia and is not to be taken lightly.

Why do raiders even need justification?,we're "mega super duper evil",Nobody even made the slightest accusation towards Slavia,it was just misinformation and is something only Slavia seems to even care about,nobody else seems to care

Knowing the honorable Mr. Pearson as I do, I would strongly disagree with that assumption and would be so bold as to state that he probably has his own personal reason for voting the way he is. Chester has more enough than enough experience to form his own well-informed opinion.

I can only go off what I read,and from what I read it implied TI was a factor in his decision,combined with the general tone of this thread,if this is not the case,I'd like to apologize for this

[Ancian]

We should defintely liberate slavia. Take a look at their RMB.

[Port blood]

We should defintely liberate slavia. Take a look at their RMB.

We should definitely educate our selfs what a liberation actually does and not go follow the person with the most power in the WA

Oh,did i mention that if you actually read the RMB,the natives are actually ruder?

[The North Polish Union]

Oops,sorry @The South Polish Union,with your wording("what I objected to"),and the first post being quoted was from Slovsko,I assumed it was his as i didnt notice the avatar,sorry about that,not in the best physical state today

2.) The FRA made no indication to Slavia that they were still on the list even after we had withdrawn. Our statement of December 24 announcing out withdrawal to the FRA was very clear in its wording and left no doubt as to Slavia was actually leaving or not. Our name should have been removed from the list on December 24 or the next day. Even with the holidays, most of the FRA administration was online at one time or another and even posted in our resignation thread; they had the opportunity to remove Slavia from the list immediately as they should've done. The fact that the FRA cannot be bothered to keep their membership list current is not Slavia's responsibility, nor is it acceptable that Slavia should be misconstrued as an FRA member so long after their withdrawal.

If you didn't want to be associated with the FRA,you should have taken better care in making sure you were off the list

We announced our withdrawal from the FRA and left, we assumed that the FRA administration would take the necessary 10 seconds of time to remove us from the list without us having to harass them to do it. Unfortunately, this assumption was apparently wrong.

Literally any justification for the raid (or even no justification at all) other than the fallacious and malicious justification given would have been acceptable to me as a raider. It is the implication that Slavia was an FRA member at the time of the raid that is objectionable to me. Such an accusation is a full frontal attack on the moral integrity of Slavia and is not to be taken lightly.

Why do raiders even need justification?,we're "mega super duper evil",Nobody even made the slightest accusation towards Slavia,it was just misinformation and is something only Slavia seems to even care about,nobody else seems to care

No, we don't need justification for raids. It's just that this time the UIAf decided to try to justify their raid and chose a justification based off of a false assumption, and an assumption which ultimately puts the moral integrity of Slavia in jeopardy. That is what I objected to.

[Ancian]

We should defintely liberate slavia. Take a look at their RMB.

We should definitely educate our selfs what a liberation actually does and not go follow the person with the most power in the WA

Oh,did i mention that if you actually read the RMB,the natives are actually ruder?

What would you say if someone invaded you? And look at how he suppresses everything.

[Port blood]

We should definitely educate our selfs what a liberation actually does and not go follow the person with the most power in the WA

Oh,did i mention that if you actually read the RMB,the natives are actually ruder?

What would you say if someone invaded you? And look at how he suppresses everything.

There is a difference between complaining about being invaded,and making up quotes like the natives are doing

That aside,do you know what a liberation does?

[Ancian]

I know it takes away password protection. Anything else? Even if the liberation doesnt do anything it might give defenders the chance to do something.

[Port blood]

I know it takes away password protection. Anything else? Even if the liberation doesnt do anything it might give defenders the chance to do something.

Okay,let me explain something:
Currently there is no password protection,and it seems there isn't going to be any anytime soon,a liberation passing would actually hinder the rebuilding effort
Without the ability for a password,the region cannot be refounded safely and effectively,and will likely end up a permanent raider target

There is a nation with 123 influence in Slavia vs 22 the raiders hold,with a well ordinated counter-attack the region could be freed by endorsing that nation,which in turn can eject the raiders
After that a password can be put up and refounding can begin

[Southslavistan]

Смрт фашизму / слобода народу

Southslavistan people vote "for".