[PASSED] Liberate Utopia

[Unibotian WASC Mission]

Hahaha, Nietzche might not have licked my balls either! Nevertheless, don't you see somewhat similar declarations in the WFE's of some feeder/larger regions saying 'don't go beyond so and so' in terms of one's endo count?!

Nietzsche wasn't a very practical guy, what can I say. He just liked to criticize, he would have criticized Utopia, and he would have criticized the Feeders as well.. and while he was at it, he'd probably criticize the entire 21th century starting with Paula Abdul and Youtube.

[Martyrdoom]

He goes beyond hinting in 'Human, All Too Human'.

He goes beyond sanity in that one, if I remember correctly.

There was a good decade in between. I'd say it depends on how insane the reader is (that's not a dig at you btw, I happen to like the book!!). Anywayyyyy, I fully support this proposal.

[Unibotian WASC Mission]

He goes beyond hinting in 'Human, All Too Human'.

He goes beyond sanity in that one, if I remember correctly.

There was a good decade in between. I'd say it depends on how insane the reader is (that's not a dig at you btw, I happen to like the book!!). Anywayyyyy, I fully support this proposal.

Well I won't say anymore, because I've only read "Beyond Good and Evil", Nietzsche's not exactly a required read in Grade 12 (and I am a lazy human being).

Thanks for the support.

[The Monkye]

From what I can see this would appear to be a straightforward yes vote for me. It doesn't look like a native refounding, and taking the region 'out of play' with a password really is against the spirit of the game, imo, and shouldn't be encouraged. The only real way we have of dealing with that is liberations, so I'll support this, assuming it is submitted sometime.


I think the draft resolution covers everything it needs to cover, so I'd be happy to see it submitted as is.

[Acacallis]

Just posting to thank Unibotian WASC Mission for writing this proposal. I don't want to see my region turn into an empty trophy.

[Travancore-Cochin]

Just to clarify again, I'm also a native in the region of Westminster.

And you raid grief other regions as Salford. I bow to thee, mastermind.

And hey Sedge, don't lump me in with what you think AoD do: I create regions and communities by refounding them. As I've said, I'm not fan of the nuclear lockdown (less regions and communities to reinvigorate).

I don't know if Sedge would; but I won't. You can be sure as hell about that. Why?

Because you're worse.

'Invaders who use hidden passwords to try and create a 'game over' scenario, allowing them to grief the region they've invaded, find they can't do that anymore' you say? You wanted examples, the most recent - Feudal Japan. Griefed, oh wait, password-griefed that is, at one point by your good self to boot.

No, its totally ok as long as the invading group consists of 'defenders' and formers natives, aka Feudal Japan.

Aww... Still sulking over Feudal Japan, and how you invaders griefers never got your hands on that region? That reminds me! Where's Janet Dobinson?

[Martyrdoom]

And you raid grief other regions as Salford. I bow to thee, mastermind.

And you actually felt compelled to write that. If I'm a mastermind, you sir are Colombo always 'catching me out'.

Because you're worse.

Tread lightly those are my feelings! You're clearly worse than Sedge then!

Aww... Still sulking over Feudal Japan, and how you invaders griefers never got your hands on that region? That reminds me! Where's Janet Dobinson?

Still firing that gun with your eyes closed? Added to the weight on your shoulder and no wonder you're missing everytime. My objections to the actions in FJ having nothing to do with not 'getting my hands' on it; I never intended or wanted that from the off. My objections, much like Janet Dobinson's, were to do with the hypocrisy of griefing a region in the name of stopping it being griefed, it's oxymoronic.

Click on that link, you'll find out where Janet Dobinson is.

[Lustrous Lemurs]

I noticed that foreign nations are concerned about the fate of Utopia. I also notice that no one has bothered to contact me or The Alliance of Dictators' government before submitting a liberation resolution. People quite hastily presume that Acacallis, Debenture and Ocean Pride will be ejected and banned from Utopia. I find it both disappointing and worrying to witness such skin deep behaviour from many honourable nations. Therefore, I have already drafted a repeal resolution.

[Cinistra]

CONCERNING THE SITUATION IN UTOPIA, STATEMENT FROM THE MINISTRY OF WAR OF THE ALLIANCE OF DICTATORS.

The 2nd of December 2009 The Alliance of Dictators took over the responsibility of the WA delegate of the region of Utopia. Our diligent and devoted servant, Lustrous Lemurs, become the region's new WA delegate.
Lustrous Lemurs did change the WFE, making it clear for everyone what's going on. More important, he took the necessary precautions to keep order in Utopia. This task had been vastly neglected by the previous WA delegate, Debenture. Debenture could have installed a regional password long time ago. Indeed he should have, but failed Utopia's residents by far. The only concern of Lustrous Lemurs is to keep Utopia safe from vile intrusions, thus taking his duty as a WA delegate seriously indeed.
So yes, Lustrous Lemurs has installed a hidden password. Contemplating recent events and the outright hostility shown to the new regime in Utopia, his act of doing so has proved right. He has also ejected and banned three nations, Pulmonary Archery, Japan Nanda and Lonely Territories. Why did Lustrous Lemurs eject and ban those nations? Well, Lustrous Lemurs had been the WA delegate some days earlier too. After two days, Pulmonary Archery entered Utopia with several companions. With these companions he seized the WA delegate position from Lustrous Lemurs. His only actions, while in charge, was to ban two respected nations, Monumental Liberty and Venomous Vanguard. These bans were totally unprovoked, and no explanation was given for this heinous crime. After a few days, Pulmonary Archery and his culprits left, leaving Utopia without a WA delegate - or a password. So much for their commitment. Lustrous Lemurs couldn't leave Utopia unguarded and defenceless. He swore that such hostile intrusions as orchestrated by Pulmonary Archery should not be repeated. Thus, he sought aid from an army he could trust not leaving him alone: The Alliance of Dictators. After been granted the WA delegate position the second time, Lustrous Lemurs' first thought was to secure Utopia from future incursions from "defenders" and spammers. No nations have been ejected so far, contrary to the claims at these forums. Also, Lustrous Lemurs regional influence during his first short period as a WA delegate was Contender, and he could have chosen to password protect Utopia already then. The experience with Pulmonary Archery thought him not to repeat that naivety for the second time. Thus, there lies no ill will in the installing of the password, contrary to common belief at these forums.

It is with surprise and grief that The Alliance of Dictators come to see that the WA has chosen a line of confrontation in this matter. The WA's interference is badly founded, and stems both from lack of analysis as well as plain prejudice.
Also, the nations of Ocean Pride, Acacallis and Debenture have chosen confrontation rather than dialogue. Contrary to common belief among the many posters on these forums, The Alliance of Dictators holds no grudge against the above mentioned nations. Our aim is to refound Utopia under our rule. Utopia has been founderless for many months, and the apathetic residents have spoiled many an attempt to refound. The experience in Utopia the last weeks shows that only The Alliance of Dictators has the power and ambition to refound Utopia successfully. A refounded Utopia is not going to be password protected. Utopia will be open for all who wants to settle. It's not in the spirit of The Alliance of Dictators to password protect refounded regions. This refound can happen as smooth or as difficult as the remaining residents wants. Lustrous Lemurs wants the refound to happen in a friendly atmosphere, and will plea for cooperation with Acacallis, Ocean Pride and Debenture.

The Alliance of Dictators will make it clear that the refound will be our responsibility only, and stalling actions from anyone will be regarded as hostile. We will not obey to demands from anyone. Lustrous Lemurs will TG Acacallis, Ocean Pride and Debenture requesting them to leave Utopia freely. They will be allowed to settle in a refounded Utopia. By doing this, we stretch out a hand of friendship to these nations. It's up to Acacallis, Ocean Pride and Debenture to define what kind of relationship they want to have with Lustrous Lemurs and The Alliance of Dictators.
We find it surprising and disappointing to observe that Ocean Pride choose to endorse Debenture instead of Lustrous Lemurs. After all, it is the inactivity and neglect of Debenture that has caused the situation. His indifference and neglect of duties, has put Utopia in great peril, making him trustworthy as a serious WA delegate of Utopia.
However, Ocean Pride's action may be understandable, and he was perhaps anxious he would be banned from Utopia? No such threats have been issued. The somewhat stern post on Utopia's RMB was published after Ocean Pride had endorsed Debenture. I can assure you that it's not in our intention to ban Ocean Pride if he obeys the orders given by Lustrous Lemurs promptly and dutifully. However, Ocean Pride can not count on our chivalry and patience for long if he continues to act openly hostile against the only political power in Utopia. We will urge him to reconsider his action, and support Lustrous Lemurs. He is welcomed to participate in the life of Utopia.
Nor will Lustrous Lemurs bend to pressure of outsiders who believe they know how to run Utopia. Many of the postings I see here is apparently made in an affected state, and stems more from prejudices and hostility towards The Alliance of Dictators as a region, rather than any real compassion towards Utopia. Some defender nations exhibits an dogmatic attitude towards raids. Like true zealots they yell "griefing" for a fully legal action by Lustrous Lemurs. I would appreciate a more sober and responsible attitude of the nations frequenting these forums, and less of the "drama queen" attitude. It's quite obvious that defenders use this situation for their own publicity stunts. Their statements in this matter are of entirely antagonistic nature. They haven't even bother to contact the government of The Alliance of Dictators, in order to clear up misunderstandings.

Yours sincerely, Cinistra, Minister of War of The Alliance of Dictators.

This post is also published on the thread Repeal "Liberate Utopia"

[Sedgistan]

Our aim is to refound Utopia under our rule.

Thats all you needed to say - an admission of password-griefing.

[Martyrdoom]

Our aim is to refound Utopia under our rule.

Thats all you needed to say - an admission of password-griefing.

Same thing happened in Feudal Japan though! The repeatedly stated aim there - and the justification behind it - was so it could be refounded by those who were from Tokugawa Japan! A completely 'foreign' region.

You need to look through the looking glass.

[Cinistra]

Our aim is to refound Utopia under our rule.

Thats all you needed to say - an admission of password-griefing.

Learn to read the posts before you interpret..somewhat biased. Utopia will be refounded without a password. The current pw is only temporary. That's more we can say about Grub's pw in Empire of Power, which is 6 years of griefing.

[Sedgistan]

Our aim is to refound Utopia under our rule.

Thats all you needed to say - an admission of password-griefing.

Learn to read the posts before you interpret..somewhat biased. Utopia will be refounded [b]without[/i] a password. The current pw is only temporary. That's more we can say about Grub's pw in Empire of Power, which is 6 years of griefing.

Password griefing is:

(a) “Password Grieving” as an invading technique, where an invader-in-disguise hides in a region long enough to accumulate a high level of regional influence, and then becomes delegate in the founderless region to immediately establish an invisible password, and begin emptying the region of those not affiliated with their invader organization,

So read posts yourself etc. etc.

And don't try and beat me with the 'Empire of Power' stick, I don't in any way endorse that. I would point out that its not griefing though, since Grub re-founded after the last natives died.

[Cinistra]

To install a pw, hidden or visible, is within the legislate powers of a WA delegate or founder. It has, contrary to fenda dogmas, nothing to do with griefing.

[Sedgistan]

To install a pw, hidden or visible, is within the legislate powers of a WA delegate or founder. It has, contrary to fenda dogmas, nothing to do with griefing.

Sure, but if you're going to re-found without the permission of the natives, you're going to have to grief the region.

[Lustrous Lemurs]

To install a pw, hidden or visible, is within the legislate powers of a WA delegate or founder. It has, contrary to fenda dogmas, nothing to do with griefing.

Sure, but if you're going to re-found without the permission of the natives, you're going to have to grief the region.

I've stayed in Utopia for 6 months, and have witnessed the region go from few to fewer. The previous delegates didn't not lift a finger to stall this development. No pw, no refound attempt, no recruiting, only a slow decay into oblivion. It's quite strange that people on these forums are so dead certain what is going in Utopia.

[Travancore-Cochin]

I've stayed in Utopia for 6 months, and have witnessed the region go from few to fewer. The previous delegates didn't not lift a finger to stall this development. No pw, no refound attempt, no recruiting, only a slow decay into oblivion. It's quite strange that people on these forums are so dead certain what is going in Utopia.

Residing in the region for 6 months gives legitimacy to your want of having to refound the region?

What about Acacallis and Ocean Pride then, who have been there much much longer than you and who obviously don't want the region to be refounded and want this liberation, instead?

[Maseland]

this is all part of the game, with out raiders nationstates would get boring and people would stop playing! if they managed to invade then the defenders will have to do the same if they want it liberated because crying to the WA about it is not how it should work, its just boring

[Sedgistan]

People aren't objecting to raiders taking over a region and then moving on after a week or so. The problem is when raiders go and grief a region - kicking out all the natives. That more than anything drives people away from NationStates, as their communities are torn apart.

[Bears Armed]

this is all part of the game, with out raiders nationstates would get boring and people would stop playing!

Oh, for crying out loud, not this bloody crap again! Look, buster, there are LOTS of ways in which people can -- and do -- enjoy playing NS without any involvement whatsoever in the 'invader'/'defender' side of things... and having those activities disrupted by raiders who apparently see NS as nothing but an online version of 'Risk' is NOT something that those players want, it's something that's far more likely to drive them out of NS than any supposed lack of such actions would do.

[Martyrdoom]

The ability to 'grief' regions was a key factor in me signing-up to this game: so it doesn't necessarily drive people away!

[Unibotian WASC Mission]

Not to be a utilitarian, but do I have to bring out a 2008 Census showing the demographic of NationStates as being only marginally populated with raiders? Hell, I didn't even think to put a category called "Region Grieving" in the census for all those innocent little Macedonians.

[Martyrdoom]

Hey so it's my fault I'm in a minority?! And you would penalise me for this?! That's how gameism gets started! I'm only joking of course. The thing is, the Macedonians make no pretense of being 'innocent'. I can think of one region in particular which specialises in such pretenses - while partaking in similar activities to the Macedonians. And they are arguably much more successful because of it.

[Unibotian WASC Mission]

Hey so it's my fault I'm in a minority?! And you would penalise me for this?! That's how gameism gets started! I'm only joking of course. The thing is, the Macedonians make no pretense of being 'innocent'. I can think of one region in particular which specialises in such pretenses - while partaking in similar activities to the Macedonians. And they are arguably much more successful because of it.

Hhhm... who is it? I'm just dieing to know?

[Martyrdoom]

Hey so it's my fault I'm in a minority?! And you would penalise me for this?! That's how gameism gets started! I'm only joking of course. The thing is, the Macedonians make no pretense of being 'innocent'. I can think of one region in particular which specialises in such pretenses - while partaking in similar activities to the Macedonians. And they are arguably much more successful because of it.

Hhhm... who is it? I'm just dieing to know?

While I am indeed an innocent little sweety, I was refering to 10000 Islands. They are the model for new invading regions/groups.