[PASSED] Right of Emigration

[Voltzenkrad]

Actually... Now that i think of it, suicide is illegal in my country. Attempting suicide is also illegal. If you attempt to commit suicide you will be put under arrest since you just broke a law, therefore not being allowed to leave the country. And jumping from 22 kilometers in the sky is classified as suicide. Loopholes confuse me. I think this is an infinite loop. Person jumps off. Lands and dies. Dead body is under arrest for suicide. Therefore not allowed to leave country, but has left country beforehand...

Unless they have a parachute. *nods*

What is this... para...chute?

[Voltzenkrad]

Actually... Now that i think of it, suicide is illegal in my country. Attempting suicide is also illegal. If you attempt to commit suicide you will be put under arrest since you just broke a law, therefore not being allowed to leave the country. And jumping from 22 kilometers in the sky is classified as suicide. Loopholes confuse me. I think this is an infinite loop. Person jumps off. Lands and dies. Dead body is under arrest for suicide. Therefore not allowed to leave country, but has left country beforehand...

That is not a problem because dead individuals cease to exist as a legal entity.

Yes, but they commit the crime while still alive. Also, they commit the crime while in Voltzenkrad's airspace and the country of emigration's airspace. So technically they are traveling to commit one of my federal crimes.

[Luveria]

That is not a problem because dead individuals cease to exist as a legal entity.

Yes, but they commit the crime while still alive. Also, they commit the crime while in Voltzenkrad's airspace and the country of emigration's airspace. So technically they are traveling to commit one of my federal crimes.

Then how is it a problem if they are going to be dead anyway?

[The Dark Star Republic]

Actually... Now that i think of it, suicide is illegal in my country. Attempting suicide is also illegal. If you attempt to commit suicide you will be put under arrest since you just broke a law, therefore not being allowed to leave the country. And jumping from 22 kilometers in the sky is classified as suicide. Loopholes confuse me. I think this is an infinite loop. Person jumps off. Lands and dies. Dead body is under arrest for suicide. Therefore not allowed to leave country, but has left country beforehand...

"I think you must be mistaken: the WA has already mandated the decriminalisation of suicide, meaning this particularly inane diversion has graduated from 99 to 100% spurious."

[Voltzenkrad]

Actually... Now that i think of it, suicide is illegal in my country. Attempting suicide is also illegal. If you attempt to commit suicide you will be put under arrest since you just broke a law, therefore not being allowed to leave the country. And jumping from 22 kilometers in the sky is classified as suicide. Loopholes confuse me. I think this is an infinite loop. Person jumps off. Lands and dies. Dead body is under arrest for suicide. Therefore not allowed to leave country, but has left country beforehand...

"I think you must be mistaken: the WA has already mandated the decriminalisation of suicide, meaning this particularly inane diversion has graduated from 99 to 100% spurious."

Oh yes, I should have added that my nation doesn't jail these unfortunate people ,but rather take them into care of a nearby hospital or treatment center.

[The Dark Star Republic]

"I think you must be mistaken: the WA has already mandated the decriminalisation of suicide, meaning this particularly inane diversion has graduated from 99 to 100% spurious."

Oh yes, I should have added that my nation doesn't jail these unfortunate people ,but rather take them into care of a nearby hospital or treatment center.

"That sounds perilously close to a form of punishment banned by the Institutional Psychiatry Act."

[The Distributed Republic of Papoon]

Excuse, please, but this seems to be exceptionally stupid, feel-good legislation.

So let us Papoonians try to stretch our wee heads around this proposal. What it exactly does it provide for?

It prohibits a nation from banning emigration UNLESS the emigrant in question is adjudged a criminal, is under criminal proceedings, or is cooking on Venus (as we say).

Ah, OK.

We will be sure in the future, then, to make sure that we charge all the people we do not wish to see emigrate - especially political dissidents - with crimes. Failing that, we will have our state-run health care services simply declare such people to be mentally incompetent.

In this way, we will not be in violation of the this law.

We will vote for it anyway, because we can't see a down-side to the proposal, but we would encourage Abacathea to not waste the Assembly's precious time with such nonsense. We have much wine to drink and many skilled sex workers to patronize.

[Voltzenkrad]

Yes, but they commit the crime while still alive. Also, they commit the crime while in Voltzenkrad's airspace and the country of emigration's airspace. So technically they are traveling to commit one of my federal crimes.

Then how is it a problem if they are going to be dead anyway?

We don't want our citizens to kill themselves, we want them to recieve treatment for their depression at a mental institute. We don't like dead citizens here.

[Voltzenkrad]

Oh yes, I should have added that my nation doesn't jail these unfortunate people ,but rather take them into care of a nearby hospital or treatment center.

"That sounds perilously close to a form of punishment banned by the Institutional Psychiatry Act."

It's far from punishment. If the victim of depression needs help the government will provide. Attempting suicide is obviously a sign of despression so we take it upon ourselves to help the individual recover and be put back into society.
Also:
6. That nothing of this resolution shall be misconstrued as prohibiting the practice of involuntary admission to a mental health facility;

[The Distributed Republic of Papoon]

Papoon's Delegate for International Bullshit strongly condemns Voltzenkrad's ridiculous and unjust prejudices against dead citizens! In Papoon, our dead citizens both have the vote and their own political associations, which play an important - some would even say dominant - role in our local elections.

[Luveria]

Excuse, please, but this seems to be exceptionally stupid, feel-good legislation.

So let us Papoonians try to stretch our wee heads around this proposal. What it exactly does it provide for?

It prohibits a nation from banning emigration UNLESS the emigrant in question is adjudged a criminal, is under criminal proceedings, or is cooking on Venus (as we say).

Ah, OK.

We will be sure in the future, then, to make sure that we charge all the people we do not wish to see emigrate - especially political dissidents - with crimes. Failing that, we will have our state-run health care services simply declare such people to be mentally incompetent.

In this way, we will not be in violation of the this law.

We will vote for it anyway, because we can't see a down-side to the proposal, but we would encourage Abacathea to not waste the Assembly's precious time with such nonsense. We have much wine to drink and many skilled sex workers to patronize.

A clever solution. I will simply charge each and every one of my citizens with a very minor crime that amounts to nothing, yet blights their record with criminality. That way no one is permitted to leave.

[The Distributed Republic of Papoon]

6. That nothing of this resolution shall be misconstrued as prohibiting the practice of involuntary admission to a mental health facility;

Ah. So.

Axe-maniacs and active pedophiles who do not wish to be slapped in the fun jacket are free to emigrate, then.

Papoon approves of this. We have many citizens which we would be happy to introduce to Voltzenkrad.

[Voltzenkrad]

Excuse, please, but this seems to be exceptionally stupid, feel-good legislation.

So let us Papoonians try to stretch our wee heads around this proposal. What it exactly does it provide for?

It prohibits a nation from banning emigration UNLESS the emigrant in question is adjudged a criminal, is under criminal proceedings, or is cooking on Venus (as we say).

Ah, OK.

We will be sure in the future, then, to make sure that we charge all the people we do not wish to see emigrate - especially political dissidents - with crimes. Failing that, we will have our state-run health care services simply declare such people to be mentally incompetent.

In this way, we will not be in violation of the this law.

We will vote for it anyway, because we can't see a down-side to the proposal, but we would encourage Abacathea to not waste the Assembly's precious time with such nonsense. We have much wine to drink and many skilled sex workers to patronize.

A clever solution. I will simply charge each and every one of my citizens with a very minor crime that amounts to nothing, yet blights their record with criminality. That way no one is permitted to leave.

That is rather unfair for the individual to be marked with a crime for something they don't deserve. People wouldn't hire individuals with criminal records thus wasting a perfectly good individual gone through my extensive education system.

[Luveria]

A clever solution. I will simply charge each and every one of my citizens with a very minor crime that amounts to nothing, yet blights their record with criminality. That way no one is permitted to leave.

That is rather unfair for the individual to be marked with a crime for something they don't deserve. People wouldn't hire individuals with criminal records thus wasting a perfectly good individual gone through my extensive education system.

That's fine. It will be a specific crime that is in effect meaningless, and everyone will be guilty of it. The Luverian people will understand that they are all officially charged with criminality to prevent brain drain.

[Voltzenkrad]

6. That nothing of this resolution shall be misconstrued as prohibiting the practice of involuntary admission to a mental health facility;

Ah. So.

Axe-maniacs and active pedophiles who do not wish to be slapped in the fun jacket are free to emigrate, then.

Papoon approves of this. We have many citizens which we would be happy to introduce to Voltzenkrad.

I retract my statement of wanting to allow Papoon's pedophiles and such onto my glorious airship.

[Voltzenkrad]

That is rather unfair for the individual to be marked with a crime for something they don't deserve. People wouldn't hire individuals with criminal records thus wasting a perfectly good individual gone through my extensive education system.

That's fine. It will be a specific crime that is in effect meaningless, and everyone will be guilty of it. The Luverian people will understand that they are all officially charged with criminality to prevent brain drain.

That is rather unfair. We in Voltzenkrad do not create nor slap meaningless crimes to an individual that they do not deserve. Also the required ink to print Useless Crime No.1 on every single resume would be preposterous. This would effectively waste my legislations time and drain our ink reserves. As we are constantly moving, we do not like to make pit stops more than we need to as it doesn't allow our wind spinners to generate electricity for our nation. And as you say our decent citizens records would be blotched with a crime.

[Voltzenkrad]

6. That nothing of this resolution shall be misconstrued as prohibiting the practice of involuntary admission to a mental health facility;

Ah. So.

Axe-maniacs and active pedophiles who do not wish to be slapped in the fun jacket are free to emigrate, then.

Papoon approves of this. We have many citizens which we would be happy to introduce to Voltzenkrad.

I just realized you wish to send me these rather horrible people to MY nation. Well you'll be sending them to their deaths as I have 306,029,949,301,023,968 individual and automated anti aircraft turrets ready to fire surrounding the circumference of my great hunk of sheet metal.

[The Distributed Republic of Papoon]

That is rather unfair for the individual to be marked with a crime for something they don't deserve. People wouldn't hire individuals with criminal records thus wasting a perfectly good individual gone through my extensive education system.

Papoon's Delegate for International Bullshit points out that this is precisely the point. If nations were inherently fair, then why would we need to contemplate this legislation in the first place?

Papoon's Delegate underlines that this is why this is bullshit legislation. Fair nations already let citizens immigrate. The unfair ones won't be affected in the slightest. To think that we are missing the albino lesbian dwarf mud wrestling championships for this...!

I retract my statement of wanting to allow Papoon's pedophiles and such onto my glorious airship.

Can we beg you to reconsider? They are very touchy-feely people who love children.

[Luveria]

That's fine. It will be a specific crime that is in effect meaningless, and everyone will be guilty of it. The Luverian people will understand that they are all officially charged with criminality to prevent brain drain.

That is rather unfair. We in Voltzenkrad do not create nor slap meaningless crimes to an individual that they do not deserve. Also the required ink to print Useless Crime No.1 on every single resume would be preposterous. This would effectively waste my legislations time and drain our ink reserves. As we are constantly moving, we do not like to make pit stops more than we need to as it doesn't allow our wind spinners to generate electricity for our nation. And as you say our decent citizens records would be blotched with a crime.

It my right to prevent my citizens from leaving. The only way I can legally do so is to charge every citizen with a crime.

Can we beg you to reconsider? They are very touchy-feely people who love children.

I didn't make that quote.

[The Distributed Republic of Papoon]

I didn't make that quote.

But we would equally urge you to take our pedophiles.

[Luveria]

I didn't make that quote.

But we would equally urge you to take our pedophiles.

If they want to emigrate to Luveria, sure, why not. Everyone gets a second chance here.


As for the issue at hand, my lawyers have been going over the proposal and have found an elegant solution.

Declares that individuals may specifically be exempted from the aforementioned mandate if:

(b) They are awaiting trial, undergoing legal proceedings, or if they are carrying out a sentence as a result of such legal proceedings,

Every Luverian citizen has now been charged with a crime (regardless of it they did it or not). Of course, because I have now 1.895 billion citizens awaiting court trials....that's going to take a few decades at the very least before they can have a court trial to have the bogus charges dropped. This gives me a legal right to prevent each and every one of my citizens from leaving.

[The Dark Star Republic]

"Again, I still think that's an abuse inconsistent with existing WA law, specifically Fairness in Criminal Trials:

MANDATES that all persons charged with criminal offences in the jurisdictions of member nations shall be brought to trial with such reasonable speed as is consistent with both prosecution and defence properly assembling available relevant evidence;

"Absolute specificity is impossible within the 3,500 character limit and other limits on proposal writing."

[Luveria]

"Again, I still think that's an abuse inconsistent with existing WA law, specifically Fairness in Criminal Trials:

MANDATES that all persons charged with criminal offences in the jurisdictions of member nations shall be brought to trial with such reasonable speed as is consistent with both prosecution and defence properly assembling available relevant evidence;

"Absolute specificity is impossible within the 3,500 character limit and other limits on proposal writing."

It is within the maximum possible speed. It's just difficult to get 1.8 billion citizens to court in a timely fashion. It's an imperfect solution that will only stop most emigration and not all of it. I believe it's within WA law if they are given a fair trial as soon as possible.

[Abacathea]

"Again, I still think that's an abuse inconsistent with existing WA law, specifically Fairness in Criminal Trials:

MANDATES that all persons charged with criminal offences in the jurisdictions of member nations shall be brought to trial with such reasonable speed as is consistent with both prosecution and defence properly assembling available relevant evidence;

"Absolute specificity is impossible within the 3,500 character limit and other limits on proposal writing."

It's the primary reason I've been ignoring the desperate attempts by these authors to circumvent this act, the reality is if they're that desperate to circumvent this, they should just opt for non compliance really. So far the "loopholes" here are all covered under existing legislation as you've been pointing out.

[Luveria]

"Again, I still think that's an abuse inconsistent with existing WA law, specifically Fairness in Criminal Trials:

"Absolute specificity is impossible within the 3,500 character limit and other limits on proposal writing."

It's the primary reason I've been ignoring the desperate attempts by these authors to circumvent this act, the reality is if they're that desperate to circumvent this, they should just opt for non compliance really. So far the "loopholes" here are all covered under existing legislation as you've been pointing out.

Hopefully someone will find an unflawed way to legally circumvent it.