[PASSED] Commend Todd McCloud

[A mean old man]

All I'll say is that certain people said things were GREAT in the drafting stage only to wait until now to cry. So pardon me if I take very little of what you say seriously.

Somehow I knew one of you would bring that up, despite the fact that I already made a statement regarding it. I suppose it is only appropriate that it would be my old friend Topid. Yes, I've admitted that I've made a mistake, and it's not a mistake that I usually make, mind you.

[[OOC: I'd have been more active in the drafting of this, but the last month has been far too busy for me outside of NationStates to really give as much attention to what's going on here as I would've liked to. I guess it's partially my own fault that I didn't pipe up about this earlier. I have to admit that I didn't read through the draft very carefully, though, even if I had, I wouldn't have been able to collect my thoughts on it and post them thanks to a lack of time to do so.]]

Yeah, I'm disappointed I didn't speak up earlier. I'm busy. I have things to do in life. Not unlike you yourself, Topid.

Hehehee.. don't read too much into the whole "Topi is dead" thing.

I can't help but feel that there's a fair amount of truth to that picture at the moment...

[Unibotian WASC Mission]

That's because I am the Walrus.

[Mad Sheep Railgun]

That's because I am the Walrus.

But as stated in Glass Onion: "the Walrus was Paul". Thus Topid is the Walrus since you've given him Paul's place in the pic.

[Unibotian WASC Mission]

No, the Beatles went through transitions of power, in the beginning of 67', John was the Walrus, but by the end of 68', the Walrus was Paul. As John refers to it on "God" on his solo album "I was the Walrus, but now I'm just John".

John wrote "I am the Walrus" about himself, he wrote almost everything about himself ... Help, Strawberry Fields, My Life ....



[/Thread-Derailing Beatlegasam]

[Mad Sheep Railgun]

>:(

No, the Beatles went through transitions of power, in the beginning of 67', John was the Walrus, but by the end of 68', the Walrus was Paul. As John refers to it on "God" on his solo album "I was the Walrus, but now I'm just John".

John wrote "I am the Walrus" about himself, he wrote almost everything about himself ... Help, Strawberry Fields, My Life ....



[/Thread-Derailing Beatlegasam]

OK OK, you can be the Walrus.

Is Todd Brian Epstein?

[Unibotian WASC Mission]

>:(

No, the Beatles went through transitions of power, in the beginning of 67', John was the Walrus, but by the end of 68', the Walrus was Paul. As John refers to it on "God" on his solo album "I was the Walrus, but now I'm just John".

John wrote "I am the Walrus" about himself, he wrote almost everything about himself ... Help, Strawberry Fields, My Life ....



[/Thread-Derailing Beatlegasam]

OK OK, you can be the Walrus.

Is Todd Brian Epstein?

No.

EDIT: He can be Elvis.

[Mad Sheep Railgun]

>:(

No, the Beatles went through transitions of power, in the beginning of 67', John was the Walrus, but by the end of 68', the Walrus was Paul. As John refers to it on "God" on his solo album "I was the Walrus, but now I'm just John".

John wrote "I am the Walrus" about himself, he wrote almost everything about himself ... Help, Strawberry Fields, My Life ....



[/Thread-Derailing Beatlegasam]

OK OK, you can be the Walrus.

Is Todd Brian Epstein?

No.

EDIT: He can be Elvis.

He could be George Martin.

[Unibotian WASC Mission]

I don't know, but A Mean Old Man is definitely Mean Mr. Mustard. "He's such a Mean Old Man!" This resolution is very Beatley in a way -- Paul made the resolution, the studio just gave the rest of the gang credit anyway.

Nevermind. I think this is enough derailment for a hard day's night, I think we've managed to absolutely distract voters from the whole problem on the previous page. Gasp.

[The Rich Port]

Do people ever notice that they're up for Comm/Condemnation? This McCloud has not shown up, neither have a lot of people to voice their opinions. But, whatever, I guess. APPROVED

[The Bruce]

My position isn’t 100% against, but I do see a problem in commending anyone for their past achievements as an invader and think it unlikely for my own region to back that as an integral part of any commendation. Yes, I understand that the commendation, while authored by a currently prominent invader, is also co-authored by a prominent defender. Yes, he’s now the delegate of the East Pacific, as was another former invader (Infinate Loop) before them, when the Farkers first conquered the region even as the feeder was being created. Conquering the East Pacific is what essentially also conquered the Farkers, because of the effort of holding onto their prize kept them out of other people's backyards. The Farkers definately created a culture and much activity in the East Pacific, before eventually their hold on the feeder came to an end.

I also believe it’s a bit premature. Yes, Todd McCloud has been around the NS system for years, as an invader, but he hasn’t even been the delegate of the East Pacific for a year yet. Meanwhile, Kandarin, has been the delegate of the Rejected Realms forever and a day, interrupted only by a pair of mass invasions, which were quickly put down. Kandarin as such, for all his works made more sense as a commendation; because of the time he had invested in his primary role as Delegate of the Rejected Realms. This commendation isn’t quite as bad as say having a newly elected president receiving an international peace prize, before even getting the chance to earn it, but this commendation is something that might have been more appropriate a year or so down the road. Unless we are going to commend everyone in sight, we should at least have some considerations for time served, instead of just momentary NS World impact.

[A mean old man]

Do people ever notice that they're up for Comm/Condemnation? This McCloud has not shown up, neither have a lot of people to voice their opinions. But, whatever, I guess. APPROVED

He's firmly stated that he doesn't want to get involved in his own commendation. Which is good, but I would like to see what he has to say about a few points brought up here.

[Topid]

Do people ever notice that they're up for Comm/Condemnation? This McCloud has not shown up, neither have a lot of people to voice their opinions. But, whatever, I guess. APPROVED

It's considered polite not to comment in your own commendation thread. Although most of the nominees for Condemnation have commented in the thread.

[Mikeswill]

Again: These Condemn & Commend Resolutions are mostly a popularity contest and a waste of the World Assembly’s time. Although Todd McCloud has worn numerous masks as a Raider, Defender, and Delegate, it is not the Business of the World Assembly to Honour Nations. The WA is not a Beauty Contest.

We would ignore these Resolutions were it not for the ridiculous precedent these Resolutions present. Therefore, Mikeswill voted against the World Assembly Resolution "Commend Todd McCloud".

[Kalibarr]

if it not their duty, why do they have the ability to in the first place?

[Sedgistan]

Yes, I understand that the commendation, while authored by a currently prominent invader, is also co-authored by a prominent defender.

Topid is actually a defender too - the misunderstanding is probably because he attempted to repeal the commendation of 10000 Islands - however that was based upon the original commendation being badly written, rather than believing that they weren't worthy of commendation.

[Topid]

Yes, I understand that the commendation, while authored by a currently prominent invader, is also co-authored by a prominent defender.

Topid is actually a defender too - the misunderstanding is probably because he attempted to repeal the commendation of 10000 Islands - however that was based upon the original commendation being badly written, rather than believing that they weren't worthy of commendation.

It's not really fair to call me a defender... I've been too inactive . But I am certainly pro-defender, anti-raider (A defender wannabe).
And I can only shake my head everytime that smear campaign comes up again...

[A mean old man]

Topid is actually a defender too

Nay. He's a defender symathizer, as he's in the WA, but doesn't actually do any defending. The same can be said for Unibot.

[Topid]

Topid is actually a defender too

Nay. He's a defender symathizer, as he's in the WA, but doesn't actually do any defending. The same can be said for Unibot.

I'll be back someday, I'm hoping within a month or two I'll have more time for the SC and defending.

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

My position isn’t 100% against, but I do see a problem in commending anyone for their past achievements as an invader and think it unlikely for my own region to back that as an integral part of any commendation. Yes, I understand that the commendation, while authored by a currently prominent invader, is also co-authored by a prominent defender. Yes, he’s now the delegate of the East Pacific, as was another former invader (Infinate Loop) before them, when the Farkers first conquered the region even as the feeder was being created. Conquering the East Pacific is what essentially also conquered the Farkers, because of the effort of holding onto their prize kept them out of other people's backyards. The Farkers definately created a culture and much activity in the East Pacific, before eventually their hold on the feeder came to an end.

I also believe it’s a bit premature. Yes, Todd McCloud has been around the NS system for years, as an invader, but he hasn’t even been the delegate of the East Pacific for a year yet. Meanwhile, Kandarin, has been the delegate of the Rejected Realms forever and a day, interrupted only by a pair of mass invasions, which were quickly put down. Kandarin as such, for all his works made more sense as a commendation; because of the time he had invested in his primary role as Delegate of the Rejected Realms. This commendation isn’t quite as bad as say having a newly elected president receiving an international peace prize, before even getting the chance to earn it, but this commendation is something that might have been more appropriate a year or so down the road. Unless we are going to commend everyone in sight, we should at least have some considerations for time served, instead of just momentary NS World impact.

I am a fan neither of Todd, Topid or this awful proposal, but I just can't get over the sniveling, elitist tenor of this argument, which holds not only that only delegates should be awarded commendations, but delegates who have served since your day, like Kandarin. If you wish only to vote in favor of C&Cs for old fossils like yourself, that's your right, but it may surprise you to note that numerous players, some of whom might never have heard of the Farkers, are perfectly capable of making contributions to the game -- nay, "outstanding contributions" -- even those who have never been elected a Regional Delegate.

[Unibotian WASC Mission]

Topid is actually a defender too

Nay. He's a defender symathizer, as he's in the WA, but doesn't actually do any defending. The same can be said for Unibot.

I prefer defender synthesizer. I imitate defender sounds, but am really just a box which talks.

[Denivogar]

I am against, this is heavily biased and skewed.

He participated in the near destruction of regions Feudal Japan and San Francisco Bay Area. Automatic NAY.

he then tries to slowly accumulate power in the feeders. Sorry, but a destructive raider like him doesn't change his stripes.

Thirdly, he's not a true native of The East Pacific. He came at an opportune moment shortly after I and others helped truly liberate The East Pacific. and I for one, have been a native of that region. He has not.

Infinite Loop should receive a commendation here, not Todd McCloud.

I encourage every sensible WA nation to vote AGAINST this!

[Naivetry]

More could have been said about Todd's work as a raider, true. But the fact that anything at all has been said about it in a Commendation means that the WASC is setting precedent for the future. Some here may be disappointed that this resolution doesn't go further, but given the ambiguity or outright hostility towards raiders that has prevailed until now in SC resolutions, this should be an encouraging sign for those who support raider Commendations.

(Personally, I think it would have been cooler if we could all have agreed to work with the IC rhetoric of it all and Condemn raiders for being oh-so-evil, wink-wink, nudge-nudge, but if people insist on reading the SC as SERIOUS BUSINESS, I guess that's how it'll go down.)

A few points on TEP, since that was brought up in the post above.

1) Native status is a matter of motivation. Todd has proven through unstinting and often thankless work in TEP that he is committed to its well-being and to the growth of its community, rather than to furthering his own selfish ends; he has claimed TEP as his home by virtue of that continuing and selfless service.

2) To clarify: The East Pacific was neither liberated by the SC (the event in question took place Dec. 21, 2009) nor by defenders. The Empire's delegate resigned from the WA after a mass ejection spree breathed life into a flagging opposition.

[Denivogar]

1) Native status is a matter of motivation. Todd has proven through unstinting and often thankless work in TEP that he is committed to its well-being and to the growth of its community, rather than to furthering his own selfish ends; he has claimed TEP as his home by virtue of that continuing and selfless service.

So have I, but he is self serving in that he refuses to allow me back into my home region of TEP, even after Loop wanted me to return for the support I have given against the Empire. If you claimed for him to not be self-serving, he would recognise what I did and allowed me to return. I am as East Pacifican as Loop his, and he is not a true East Pacifican. He is a destructive raider, and especialyl after what he tried to do to Feudal Japan, he does not deserve any commendation, PERIOD!

[Gauntleted Fist]

Again: These Condemn & Commend Resolutions are mostly a popularity contest and a waste of the World Assembly’s time. Although Todd McCloud has worn numerous masks as a Raider, Defender, and Delegate, it is not the Business of the World Assembly to Honour Nations.

It is absolutely the business of the World Assembly Security Council to commend and condemn nations and regions, as well as to liberate regions. That is, quite literally, the purpose of its existence.

Having taken note of the contributions of Todd McCloud to the WASC and his ideas and contributions in the Technical forum, Gauntleted Fist votes to commend Todd McCloud.

[The Bruce]

Yes, I understand that the commendation, while authored by a currently prominent invader, is also co-authored by a prominent defender.

Topid is actually a defender too - the misunderstanding is probably because he attempted to repeal the commendation of 10000 Islands - however that was based upon the original commendation being badly written, rather than believing that they weren't worthy of commendation.

It's not really fair to call me a defender... I've been too inactive . But I am certainly pro-defender, anti-raider (A defender wannabe).
And I can only shake my head everytime that smear campaign comes up again...

That's what all invaders say, even as they pitch the last native in the darkness of the Rejected Realms!

But seriously, apologies for having misdiagnosed your part in the nightly invader-defender wars. I'd seen you in some sketchy regions, not in the capacity of defending, while speaking out against certain defender groups. It can make it difficult to ascertain which side you represent, without more information.