PASSED: Liberate Democratia

[Kalibarr]

It doesn'y matter if you liberate it, most of the old nation have been ban/jected so they can not come back. and the Axis has been there a while so they have alot of influence

if the password is remove defenders will likely move in and clear the ban list.

yes but axis is already there and they will ban the defenders, or we might just leave because the natives are long gone by now

Maybe so. But, again, the natives can't come back either way if a password impedes such a return. It must be removed and the Axis cleared away. Are there any defenders planning on moving in?

Probably, but they wouldn't say so here

[Great Brutopia]

I have no interest in having Democratia as a trophy, that is not how I play NationStates.

I see by your flag that you are a member of Crusaders of Justice, one of the groups that recently "liberated" Feudal Japan. I cannot help noting that the former residents of the region still have not been permitted to return to their home region and many of them were even forcibly ejected. Instead of letting them refound you haven't even restored the original WFE but kept the new one proclaiming the victory of the various involved defenders. After so much attention has been drawn on Feudal Japan, you're using the region to advertise for your groups.

This is not the first time this has happened. A friend of mine, a peaceful resident of a large region (I will not post the name as the event I mention is rather dated), was ejected from his home after it was "liberated" by defenders from a raider attack. They could have simply endorsed the oldest member, a WA nation with a large amount of influence, but instead imposed their control by electing one of their number. The new delegate proudly presented the numerous defender brands in the new WFE, ejected all natives, did not answer queries TGed by residents concerning the announced refounding, and for some time even refused to leave, so that the oldest member and current founder could not restore the region.

All you want to do is impose your rule on other regions and you disguise your intent with a heart-warming story of protecting justice and the poor innocent oppressed nations of the regions involved.
If the "natives" of Democratia (provided you can actually find any) want their region to be liberated, let them submit a WA resolution! No one asked you to start another PR campaign.

[Martyrdoom]

I have no interest in having Democratia as a trophy, that is not how I play NationStates.

I see by your flag that you are a member of Crusaders of Justice, one of the groups that recently "liberated" Feudal Japan. I cannot help noting that the former residents of the region still have not been permitted to return to their home region and many of them were even forcibly ejected. Instead of letting them refound you haven't even restored the original WFE but kept the new one proclaiming the victory of the various involved defenders. After so much attention has been drawn on Feudal Japan, you're using the region to advertise for your groups.

This is not the first time this has happened. A friend of mine, a peaceful resident of a large region (I will not post the name as the event I mention is rather dated), was ejected from his home after it was "liberated" by defenders from a raider attack. They could have simply endorsed the oldest member, a WA nation with a large amount of influence, but instead imposed their control by electing one of their number. The new delegate proudly presented the numerous defender brands in the new WFE, ejected all natives, did not answer queries TGed by residents concerning the announced refounding, and for some time even refused to leave, so that the oldest member and current founder could not restore the region.

All you want to do is impose your rule on other regions and you disguise your intent with a heart-warming story of protecting justice and the poor innocent oppressed nations of the regions involved.
If the "natives" of Democratia (provided you can actually find any) want their region to be liberated, let them submit a WA resolution! No one asked you to start another PR campaign.

I could not agree more with that. 'Liberate' Feudal Japan was proposed by a nominal defender 'on behalf of the natives' as well, and as you say, look where that has led - passworded and puppeted. One of the initial objections to liberations was that offensive players could use it to open regions up for attack and for their own aggrandisement - looks like it is being borne out, though not by raiders as previously imagined.

[Sedgistan]

Every time invaders make that argument about Feudal Japan, they just demonstrate why the region hasn't been re-founded yet. Its quite obvious that invaders are still watching the region, so the natives probably don't want to re-found when there's a risk of an invader stealing it.

[Martyrdoom]

Every time invaders make that argument about Feudal Japan, they just demonstrate why the region hasn't been re-founded yet. Its quite obvious that invaders are still watching the region, so the natives probably don't want to re-found when there's a risk of an invader stealing it.

If you don't like that argument being used against you or your cohorts you know what you could do? i.e. do what was 'promised'. Anyways, if a nominal invader group made promises of re-founding or made (merely hypothetical) excuses by saying 'people are watching the region', they'd be laughed off the forum. I don't see why nations such as your good self shouldn't be held to the same standard. Is it because you are the standard?

[Cromwell Protectorate]

I think that before anything happens, there should be a proper investigation, instead of jumping to quick conclusions. It this bill passes, it is a jump to a conclusion.

((Speaking for Cromwell Protectorate))

Wow Elktown,
One of the few things that we both agree on!
Although, your nation has a history of jumping to conclusions though doesn't it?

Regardless of Absolution vs Elktown regional issues, you make a valid point.

[Sedgistan]

How would an investigation happen? We set up a committee, they look into things, come back with a report, and people vote on their recommendations? Can anyone actually see that happening?

People arguing for/against resolutions can present any evidence they consider relevant - but at the end of the day, its up to individuals to make a judgement on whether or not they believe it.

If you want more evidence from either side, ask for it, but 'an investigation' is a rather ill-defined, and impractical idea.

[Exilia and Colonies]

As Democratia's remaining non-invading native I support this resolution.

[Goobergunchia]

In that case, Goobergunchia votes in favor.

[Blotting]

As Democratia's remaining non-invading native I support this resolution.

Again, this is why I think that this resolution is a good idea. No one should have to be imprisoned within the walls of an invader regime and since I haven't heard anything that makes the Axis's actions seem necessary then it seems like the best decision would be for this resolution to remove the password and at least create the opportunity for Democratia to be reconstituted as its own region instead of a puppet state.

[Kovasckitz]

Great, you found out how to use copy/paste. Some authors have been known to draft their own resolutions; you might try looking into that next time.

I did use the Liberate Belgium proposal as an outline, but this does not the change fact that the actions taken by The Axis of Evil are anything but wrong. Democratia was a sovereign region, and invading and leaving the region is one thing. Invading the region and locking it up is whole other thing. Liberating Democratia is the honorable thing to do.

I'm sorry, but I can not vote for this resolution knowing this. Really? Take the time to make and original proposal if you care about it. I must vote this down, but a second proposal that is original would certainly be voted for by me.

[The Nuclear Robatics]

As Democratia's remaining non-invading native I support this resolution.

Again, this is why I think that this resolution is a good idea. No one should have to be imprisoned within the walls of an invader regime and since I haven't heard anything that makes the Axis's actions seem necessary then it seems like the best decision would be for this resolution to remove the password and at least create the opportunity for Democratia to be reconstituted as its own region instead of a puppet state.

Actually are the Axis Of Evil forcing Exilia And Colonies to stay in Democratia? I don't think so, if the native nation wanted to they could have left a long time ago and settled in a new region long ago

[The Rich Port]

The only reason Feudal Japan is the way it is is because the Liberation measure was summarily repealed. How, I'm not sure, by whom, well, who cares; he's an idiot. Nobunaga's Legacy... has anyone contacted this person?

[Kalibarr]

that is ether a defender or a native's puppet keeping the region from CTEing so they can refound it when ever their ready

[The Rich Port]

As Democratia's remaining non-invading native I support this resolution.

I applaud your bravery. Your region shall be liberated. I promise you this.

[Gauntleted Fist]

Having taken note of the gloating nature of the World Factbook Entry for Democratia made by the Axis of Evil, and the admittance to cruelty in the destruction of the region, the nation of Gauntleted Fist has decided to support the Liberation of Democratia.

Sincerely,

[Farashinikov]

Your sorta trying to change game rules in a way if I remember, mods nor anybody else dont care if someone invades a region because: One you have the ability if your the founder to give the Delegate no control whatsoever , Two if these people are gonna do this well be smart if your the founder and change the settings on your region, and if you dont want to then tough stuff happens and you cant get around it. Not saying I don't like what they do but trully there is going to be this type of gamers and only way this will change is if Max Barry or one of the mods decide to say " Hey I dont want this any more next time this happens life ban!" but that isnt going to happen since if I remember he doesnt want to write any more line of code for the game, so your sol if you think you can change his mind. Just stating the obvious and one last thing this vote is going to pass, be if axis likes it or not. So all you regions that might not have to many people to keep your delegate better get ready cause they are going to be loose and prolly going hunting for another region. Just thought Id warn you all.

[The Bruce]

I find it interesting that invaders find it unfair to have a liberation resolution remove their password protection of their prize region, when they keep stating that a region should be able to either defend itself or fall. By that logic it’s a weak move for invaders to password protect prize regions, so this resolution is actually helping them back to a purer path of invading, without the crutch of password protection.

One thing I’m curious about is if the writer of this resolution has been in contact with the natives of this region and roughly how many natives are still active after being booted from their region. The length of time it took to put this resolution forward may well have diminished the number of active natives that can reoccupy their region, but given how long this region has been around there should be a few still out there.

[Blotting]

As Democratia's remaining non-invading native I support this resolution.

Again, this is why I think that this resolution is a good idea. No one should have to be imprisoned within the walls of an invader regime and since I haven't heard anything that makes the Axis's actions seem necessary then it seems like the best decision would be for this resolution to remove the password and at least create the opportunity for Democratia to be reconstituted as its own region instead of a puppet state.

Actually are the Axis Of Evil forcing Exilia And Colonies to stay in Democratia? I don't think so, if the native nation wanted to they could have left a long time ago and settled in a new region long ago

Oh, they're not forcing them to stay, but there's a certain level of intimidation going on here with one native nation essentially getting a Hobson's choice -- either leave their home and wind up in some foreign region with completely different customs and traditions or stay in a region that is describe by the invaders as:

All that remains of this once thriving region is a barren landscape blackened and scarred by the terrible destructive force of Axis nukes.

National sovereignty issues outside, that's at least an environmental concern.

The length of time it took to put this resolution forward may well have diminished the number of active natives that can reoccupy their region, but given how long this region has been around there should be a few still out there.

For security issues, I recommend not revealing the size, status, and location of the natives. However, I strongly feel that the Crusaders of Justice know what they're doing and timed this resolution vote specifically so that the reconstitution of Democratia can shift into high gear as soon as the Axis's password is broken.

[The Rich Port]

For security issues, I recommend not revealing the size, status, and location of the natives. However, I strongly feel that the Crusaders of Justice know what they're doing and timed this resolution vote specifically so that the reconstitution of Democratia can shift into high gear as soon as the Axis's password is broken.

There must be more defenders organizing a take-back. Speaking of which, where is this Axis of Evil. Will it not defend it's occupation of Democratia? What cowardice holds them back?

[Blotting]

For security issues, I recommend not revealing the size, status, and location of the natives. However, I strongly feel that the Crusaders of Justice know what they're doing and timed this resolution vote specifically so that the reconstitution of Democratia can shift into high gear as soon as the Axis's password is broken.

There must be more defenders organizing a take-back. Speaking of which, where is this Axis of Evil. Will it not defend it's occupation of Democratia? What cowardice holds them back?

Well, to be honest, it's not so much that they are cowards but that the numbers are against them. This resolution looks like it's on its way to passage. When it does, they won't stand a chance. The Democratians will flood in and without the extraordinary measure of a password as a sort of "nuke" there's no way they can hold onto their regional delegation seat by force.

But a re-invasion shouldn't the main goal here. The Axis also has the right to coexist peacefully if they want, and the best possible outcome would be a peaceful coexistence between the native Democratians and the invaders. I think that, once the invasion is revoked, the Axis nations should be given the opportunity to legitimately be part of Democratia's governing body and even stand for election as WA delegate. That way we won't have to fight this exact same fight in a couple of weeks.

[The Rich Port]

For security issues, I recommend not revealing the size, status, and location of the natives. However, I strongly feel that the Crusaders of Justice know what they're doing and timed this resolution vote specifically so that the reconstitution of Democratia can shift into high gear as soon as the Axis's password is broken.

There must be more defenders organizing a take-back. Speaking of which, where is this Axis of Evil. Will it not defend it's occupation of Democratia? What cowardice holds them back?

Well, to be honest, it's not so much that they are cowards but that the numbers are against them. This resolution looks like it's on its way to passage. When it does, they won't stand a chance. The Democratians will flood in and without the extraordinary measure of a password as a sort of "nuke" there's no way they can hold onto their regional delegation seat by force.

But a re-invasion shouldn't the main goal here. The Axis also has the right to coexist peacefully if they want, and the best possible outcome would be a peaceful coexistence between the native Democratians and the invaders. I think that, once the invasion is revoked, the Axis nations should be given the opportunity to legitimately be part of Democratia's governing body and even stand for election as WA delegate. That way we won't have to fight this exact same fight in a couple of weeks.

That is, IF they can co-exist peacefully. Reason does not require numbers. If they wish to reason their actions, let them come on and argue their cases. Until they do that, public opinion shall be against them. So long as their tirades and tyranny continues, then, most likely, the WA shall oppose them.

[Kandarin]

Your sorta trying to change game rules in a way if I remember, mods nor anybody else dont care if someone invades a region because: One you have the ability if your the founder to give the Delegate no control whatsoever , Two if these people are gonna do this well be smart if your the founder and change the settings on your region, and if you dont want to then tough stuff happens and you cant get around it. Not saying I don't like what they do but trully there is going to be this type of gamers and only way this will change is if Max Barry or one of the mods decide to say " Hey I dont want this any more next time this happens life ban!" but that isnt going to happen since if I remember he doesnt want to write any more line of code for the game, so your sol if you think you can change his mind. Just stating the obvious and one last thing this vote is going to pass, be if axis likes it or not. So all you regions that might not have to many people to keep your delegate better get ready cause they are going to be loose and prolly going hunting for another region. Just thought Id warn you all.

The game code has been changed. Liberation resolutions are now as much a feature of the game as the regional control system that allows invasions to occur in the first place. This is not a stealth maneuver snuck into the game by wily defenders; it is a feature developed and added by the admins. Appeals to the status quo fall short in this case, because the existence of Liberations is now the status quo. If you want that status quo changed, you need to appeal to the admins, not argue with defenders.

[EVIL BEYOND COMPARE]

As Democratia's remaining non-invading native I support this resolution.

yet you are the last one. every one else has been ban/jected so why would you want the region for yourself

[Cydell]

The WA should not have the authority to interfere with a regions internal affairs. The Allied States of Cydell vote against the resolution.