[DEFEATED] Condemn TNI

[Crazy girl]

Since Karpathos didn't have the nerve to post it here himself (or even use his own nation for it), I'll open discussion.

Here's the submitted resolution for reference:

Condemn The New Inquisition
A resolution to express shock and dismay at a nation or region.

Category: Condemnation

Nominee: The New Inquisition

Proposed by: Strapped up Nina

Description: The Security Council,

SADDENED by the destruction of regions and their communities conducted by The New Inquisition, such as in North Atlantic, Concosia, and Valhalla, and their assistance in the near destruction of other regions such as Region of Reunited Muslim States, Free Thought, Stargate;

DISGUSTED by the frequent falsifications used to justify the actions of The New Inquisition, such as the illegitimate claim to sovereignty over the region Valhalla;

SHOCKED that the New Inquisition innvaded The Rejected Realms, which is one of the oldest, largest regions in the game,

ASTONISHED by the actions of The New Inquisition and satellite region Balder, as well as other regions, where they seized control and engaged in political misdeeds to solidify their stronghold over the region;

NOTING that The New Inquisition is a chief promoter of the insidious disease of imperialism and must be fought against at all costs, as it promotes the violation of regional sovereignty;

BELIEVING that The New Inquisition is a parasitic region who's very existence is detrimental to the health of the international community;

HEREBY Condemns The New Inquisition.

SADDENED by the destruction of regions and their communities conducted by The New Inquisition, such as in North Atlantic, Concosia, and Valhalla, and their assistance in the near destruction of other regions such as Region of Reunited Muslim States, Free Thought, Stargate;

What North Atlantic Community? What Concosian Community? What Valhallan community? And on that last one, TNI didn't even refound Valhalla, so we hardly destroyed any community there. And 'near Destruction' =/= destruction, for one, and for two, if you're going to condemn TNI for those, well, you'd better work your condemn pen hard, because the condemnations will need to start flying out of the little backroom where you guys write them.

DISGUSTED by the frequent falsifications used to justify the actions of The New Inquisition, such as the illegitimate claim to sovereignty over the region Valhalla;

If they're so frequent, surely you have more examples than one as old as Valhalla, right? Right? Oh, wait.... Moreover, explain in detail how TNI's claim was illegitimate, when it was based on the exact same claim to sovreignty the NPO had over The Pacific when it first conquered the region - force. Will Karpathos be condemning the NPO's senior leadership any time soon?

SHOCKED that the New Inquisition innvaded The Rejected Realms, which is one of the oldest, largest regions in the game,

Sure, and? What did we do? Did we overturn the TRR government? Did we impose our own rule over it? Did we grief it? Or did we take it and basically do the equiavlent (and I know Onder is going to disagree with my characterization of this) 'Nah, nahna boo, boo, we have your delegacy'. They got control back after 12 hours, and I didn't know that fighting a war that at that time had been in effect for over five years is somehow a condemn worthy act. Besides, wouldn't that have been more condemn worthy like...when it happened?

ASTONISHED by the actions of The New Inquisition and satellite region Balder, as well as other regions, where they seized control and engaged in political misdeeds to solidify their stronghold over the region;

This is a nice rehash of the standard arguement. Usually its TNI running Europeia, or Europeia running TNI, or what have you, but TNI running Balder isn't even a new claim. But as someone who has been involved in the upper echelons of TNI government and military on and off for some time, I can tell you, while I've gotten many memos, I must have missed the one about us running Balder and 'other regions' (can you provide them, please? Also, what political misdeeds are you talking about, Karpyboy? Because I didn't get that memo either)

NOTING that The New Inquisition is a chief promoter of the insidious disease of imperialism and must be fought against at all costs, as it promotes the violation of regional sovereignty;

Oh, there are so many problems with that. Chief promoter? How so? prove it, please? and how is Imperialism an insidious disease? Do we live in a world where things can be called insidious diseases and then they're suddenly so? Can I call Karpathos an insidious disease? What about Francoism? Oh, look, *condemns Karpathos and the NPO for no good reason* Also, why must it be fought at all costs? What must? TNI, or the 'isidious disease' of Imperialism? And how can Imperialism promote the violation of 'regional sovereignty', when its fundamental tenant is the protection of its sovereignty?

BELIEVING that The New Inquisition is a parasitic region who's very existence is detrimental to the health of the international community;

Hm...Which region has helped end more GCR coups in the last year? TNI or the NPO? Oh, yea, TNI. And which region has a more active forum, more active community, and more active government (complete with citizen engagement, something the NPO seems to sorely lack)? TNI or the NPO? TNI. And which region has an extensive system of treaties between equals that promotes common defense, cultural exchange and mutual security? TNI or the NPO? Oh, yes, TNI. Which region has (twice now) hosted a cultural conference to draft the Bealtine Accords, which create a shared cultural exchange system across a diverse set of regions? TNI or the NPO? TNI. Beginning to see a pattern here.

I'm not saying the NPO is parasitic, because I don't believe it is, but if TNI is a parasite hurting the health of the international community, then I'm wondering what isn't a parasite hurting the health of the international community?

[Ponderosa]

The Delegate of Ainur has already vowed to vote against this resolution, and steps shall be taken to increase Ainur's voice in this particular vote.

[Cerian Quilor]

That is good to hear. NationStates needs to stand against badly written, poorly researched and inaccuracy-filled condemnations, especially when they're just Karpathos exercising a petty grudge he has against TNI and Imperialist regions, though why he suddenly got bothered by them recently is unclear.

[Solorni]

This is a very petty and immature proposal. I find his disregard for GCR sovereignty concerning.

[Cormac A Stark]

I found this proposal so lacking in substance, so petty and slanderous, and so poorly written that I actually launched a counter-campaign against it this morning. Those of you who are familiar with me and my past year or so in NationStates gameplay are well aware that there has been no love lost between The New Inquisition and I; I've had my share of disagreements with them and engaged them many times on the battlefield as a defender. Be that as it may, a bad proposal is a bad proposal and lies and slander are lies and slander. Nobody, whether they like The New Inquisition and approve of their actions or not, should vote for this proposal.

Most of the points I covered in my counter-campaign telegram have already been well covered by Cerian Quilor. The only thing I want to add is what this outrageous proposal does not say. As I pointed out to other WA Delegates in my counter-campaign:

Referring to The New Inquisition as "imperialist raiders," this proposal fails to mention the key efforts of The New Inquisition to liberate my own home region, Osiris, when it was overthrown and purged by The Dourian Embassy in July. The New Inquisition provided by far the largest military force in support of our legitimate government and it is not an exaggeration to say that The Dourian Embassy might still be continuing his reign of terror in Osiris today if not for the commitment The New Inquisition and its allies in the United Imperial Armed Forces made to our liberation. The New Inquisition made a similarly strong commitment to the liberation of our mutual ally The South Pacific in April.

Although many allied and friendly regions contributed to Osiran liberation efforts, there is no question that the contribution made by The New Inquisition and the rest of the United Imperial Armed Forces made the difference. I have little doubt that the war for Osiris would still be ongoing without their support. And while Senator Karpathos and the New Pacific Order were busy finding excuses to implicitly support the coup of The South Pacific and preparing to welcome Milograd as a Senator, and joining Gatesville Inc in an intimidation campaign against those who disagreed with them including their own treaty allies, forces from The New Inquisition were coming out every update in large numbers to work with others -- including the two defender organizations with which they are at war -- to liberate The South Pacific. I know; I was there at update working with them while Karpathos was busy spewing bad propaganda for Milograd's regime under a pseudonymous puppet, just like the one he's using here.

As Pharaoh and Delegate of Osiris, I can't wait to lodge a vote against this slanderous garbage as soon as it reaches the floor. It is an insult to The New Inquisition which has done far more lately than Karpathos or the NPO have done for Feeder and Sinker sovereignty; it is an insult to our sister Sinker, Balder, which is an independent region far, far more active than The Pacific has been in quite some time under the brilliant leadership of Senator Gaspo and now Senator Karpathos; and it is an insult to the dignity of the Security Council for such a slanderous, poorly written proposal to even be in queue. I urge all Delegates and all WA voters to vote against.

[Milograd]

Oh, wait.... Moreover, explain in detail how TNI's claim was illegitimate, when it was based on the exact same claim to sovreignty the NPO had over The Pacific when it first conquered the region - force. Will Karpathos be condemning the NPO's senior leadership any time soon?

He won't be. The NPO is the legitimate government of The Pacific. Francos Spain acquired The Pacific's delegacy with native endorsements and force was only a defensive measure taken in response to outside forces. The August Revolutionaries who ruled The Pacific after it stopped being assaulted around-the-clock hardly had to use force to maintain their delegacy.

And how can Imperialism promote the violation of 'regional sovereignty', when its fundamental tenant is the protection of its sovereignty?

I agree that imperialist entities are interested in protecting their own sovereignty (as are most people/nations), but presumably the proposal is implying that it encourages or prompts the violation of other entities' sovereignties. Imperialism itself, by the definition of it, is widely condemned in real life because native people were usually exploited by it and because it's impossible to perform conquest without violating the sovereignty of whatever you're conquering, assuming there is already an establishment there. Of course, real definitions don't necessarily reflect NS definitions and/or realities in practice, but the argument that imperialism promotes the violation of sovereignty insofar as most imperialist regions participate in raids checks out for me, I suppose.

If you'd care to disagree, I'm curious to hear thoughts on that matter. It's an interesting point of contention.

[Cerian Quilor]

The NPO seized power in The pacific by force, and maintained it by force, after overthrowing the pre-existing government. I'm not saying that's condemn worthy. I'm just asking why Karpathos doesn't keep to consistency?

TNI has never infringed on the sovereignty of its allies, not that of any GCR, not counting TRR, which it was at war with. It is certainly a normal convention in international relations that invading someone you're at war with is...well, okay, right? Within IR norms, anyway. Unless the US invading Germany in WWII needs a SC condemnation...

To argue that, say, Valhalla had sovereignty is to argue that a little rock in Lake Michigan has sovreignty and the US is violating it if a Coast guard ship stops by it for some reason. (Not that the coast guard does anything in Lake Michigan...IIRC).

[Milograd]

I'd be hesitant to compare TRR to Nazi Germany.

[North East Somerset]

Introduction

This resolution is nothing but the result of a personal grudge of the author against members of our region. It is a defamatory presentation of TNI consisting mainly of falsified propaganda and baseless assertions. Most of the claims included in the resolution are presented out of context and in a deceptive manner; the author does not even attempt to substantiate many of them.

In the following, I will dissect the resolution into parts, and definitively refute each and every one of them. My rebuttal, I believe, will prove why this resolution should be thoroughly rejected by the Security Council:

---

"SADDENED by the destruction of regions and their communities conducted by The New Inquisition, such as in North Atlantic, Concosia, and Valhalla, and their assistance in the near destruction of other regions such as Region of Reunited Muslim States, Free Thought, Stargate"

TNI did not destroy any of the communities mentioned, or indeed any community whatsoever. North Atlantic was a region of 13 long-inactive nations and had no active community when TNI re-founded it in 2011. In Concosia, again in 2011, TNI acted with the consent of Tramiar, one of two natives left, and allowed natives to stay in the region. In Valhalla, TNI entered a desolate, inactive region, with the intent of devoting its own resources to build up the region into an active community.

The author of the resolution mentions that TNI performed multiple instances of region destruction, “such as in” the cases mentioned above. Obviously, the author is hard-pressed to come up with any more examples, especially considering that the incident in Valhalla took place in 2006, seven whole years ago. Indeed, there are no other examples the author could provide, and even the ones he mentions are, as we already argued, represented completely inaccurately and in deceiving manner. Let us reiterate here: TNI has not destroyed any communities.

"DISGUSTED by the frequent falsifications used to justify the actions of The New Inquisition, such as the illegitimate claim to sovereignty over the region Valhalla"

The author once again here uses the same pattern of mentioning frequent falsifications, yet only citing a single alleged instance of a falsification. The reason is the same as before: the author is unable to find any valid examples, and exaggerates his claims without substantiation in order to mislead.

The single instance the author identifies is, yet again, falsely described. TNI was in control of Valhalla, and was putting effort into developing it into an active, self-sustainable region. When the region was later removed from TNI’s control by means of a military operation, we considered this a breach of our sovereignty. This is a reasonable and indeed typical reaction in such circumstances. These are the facts, there was no falsification.

"SHOCKED that the New Inquisition innvaded The Rejected Realms, which is one of the oldest, largest regions in the game"

The New Inquisition did not "innvade" The Rejected Realms. We obtained the regional delegacy for 12 hours in a stated objection to its membership of the FRA, an organisation that TNI is at war with. We voluntarily left the region before the following update, as we had declared we would from the very beginning. Our only action during it was to start deconstruction of an embassy with FRA, an action which was readily reversed.

Unlike what the author appears to imply, no harm was done to The Rejected Realms. This is in stark contrast to recent coups of Game-Create Regions, in The South Pacific by Milograd and in Osiris by The Dourian Embassy. Those incidents lasted for weeks, resulted in the forceful ejection of thousands of nations, and had the stated intent of hurting the regional communities, and disrupting the peace and welfare of the respective regions. To the contrary, TNI has a strong record of condemning such incidents and actively working for their reversal, as has been shown in both of the above occasions.

We cannot help but notice that the resolution as presented includes a spelling mistake here, “innvaded”; this is yet another indication of careless and hasty drafting, in addition to the demonstrated lack of effort by the author to substantiate any of the claims he is presenting.

"ASTONISHED by the actions of The New Inquisition and satellite region Balder, as well as other regions, where they seized control and engaged in political misdeeds to solidify their stronghold over the region"

Another instance of poor language use by the author makes the above clause difficult to parse exactly. But we believe that the insinuation here is that TNI has “engaged in misdeeds” to turn Balder into a satellite region, with some unspecified “other regions” being either further targets for TNI, or complicit to these misdeeds. Whichever the case, this is an outlandish accusation. Balder is one of the largest and most active regions in NationStates, with a community proud of their unique and strong regional identity. The very idea that they could be a satellite region of TNI is laughable, and deeply insulting not just to Balder but, as Balder is a close ally of ours, to us too. As before, after stating his claim, even one as absurd as this, the author makes no effort whatsoever to present any evidence to support it.

"NOTING that The New Inquisition is a chief promoter of the insidious disease of imperialism and must be fought against at all costs, as it promotes the violation of regional sovereignty;
BELIEVING that The New Inquisition is a parasitic region who's very existence is detrimental to the health of the international community"

Imperialism is the NationStates version of realpolitik. It is the notion that a region should be self-reliant and use the resources at its disposal to advance its sovereign interests through pragmatic diplomacy. What the author presents as Imperialism is almost the polar opposite of what it really stands for. We invite you to read a widely distributed essay on the subject of Imperialism written by Charles Cerebella, Crown Prince of TNI: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=219925 .

TNI has been espousing and promoting Imperialism ever since its founding in 2006. Far from parasitic, our ideology means that we are a region that stands on its own strength. As a result, we have developed in TNI a vibrant community with a strong base of committed, high-quality players, a unique identity, and a policy of professional cultural, diplomatic and military interactions with other regions. These characteristics have enabled us to make an overwhelmingly positive net contribution to gameplay in our seven years of existence.

Our strong status within the international community is evident by the fact that we enjoy strong relations with many of the game’s most important regions, including bilateral alliances with the Game-Created Regions of The South Pacific, Balder and Lazarus. Far from being detrimental to the international community, we contribute to its stability and welfare: this year alone, we did so by playing a crucial role in liberating our allies The South Pacific and Osiris from the coups by Milograd and The Dourian Embassy, respectively.

---

Epilogue

The author’s representation of our foreign policy ideals and our standing in the world is not just wrong. It is absolutely slanderous. The same is true for all of the claims the author makes in this resolution. Moreover, the author routinely not just fails, but does not even attempt to substantiate his claims, which perhaps is not surprising given that they are just fabrications.

These should be a reflection of the author’s true intentions behind this resolution. This is a resolution submitted out of spite, to satisfy a personal grudge the author holds against members of TNI. The Security Council should not allow itself to be used as the battleground for petty grudges, and should reject this resolution.

On behalf of the Government of The New Inquisition,
North East Somerset,
Prince of The New Inquisition.

[A mean old man]

Where's Orville Redenbacher when you need him?

[Eist]

I'd just like to point out that the North Atlantic was indeed a community (many of whose members have since left the game) and was indeed *destroyed*, intentionally, by TNI.

[Apples in the Fields]

This is in stark contrast to recent coups of Game-Create Regions, in The South Pacific by Milograd and in Osiris by The Dourian Embassy.... We cannot help but notice that the resolution as presented includes a spelling mistake here, “innvaded”; this is yet another indication of careless and hasty drafting...

You sure TNI didn't innvade a game-create region?

If we're basing truth on spelling here, I'm not sure who to trust now.

[Tim-Opolis]

Although I'd absolutely love to see TNI Condemned, especially since they're one of the regions whose natives would actually get worried and whiny about it (seen it happen)... This proposal. This proposal is bad.
Karpathos, this is bad and you should feel bad.

Against, until a good proposal is written

[Feux]

The Security Council should not allow itself to be used as the battleground for petty grudges.

That's new.

[Milograd]

The Security Council should not allow itself to be used as the battleground for petty grudges.

That's the entire point of half of it.

[0rville Redenbacher]

Where's Orville Redenbacher when you need him?

Right here!

And saaay! Isn't this an exciting discussion? And you know, when discussions get heated there's nothing better than a bowl of my hot buttery gourmet popping corn while you're watching the fireworks!

Who wants some?

[Norway and Iceland]

Her Majesty the Queen strongly disapproves of both the mass telegram received and the immaturity of this proposal. Accordingly, our delegation has entered a vote against.

[McMasterdonia]

I'd just like to point out that the North Atlantic was indeed a community (many of whose members have since left the game) and was indeed *destroyed*, intentionally, by TNI.

While that is unfortunate, this proposal is severely lacking in several areas. It is not well written and most of it's claims are false. A proposal focusing on the actions of TNI as Imperialists and regions that it may have affected would probably do better than this one will.

Including Balder as a satellite region is a joke and it's insulting to the community that has been built up over the years. It's fairly safe to say that Balder is extremely annoyed at Karpathos over this resolution. I personally want to know how many nations are required to make a region a satellite state. Is Lazarus a satellite state of the NPO because it has NPO members.. or a satellite state of TNI because one of Lazarus' former Delegates is the founder of TNI? Is the East pacific a NPO satellite state because it has AMOM involved there? Is TNP a NPO satellite state because NK and Karpathos are both in our Regional Assembly? Where does this end.

I will be voting against.

[Cerian Quilor]

The Security Council should not allow itself to be used as the battleground for petty grudges.

That's new.

The SC is the battleground for petty grudges.

Doesn't mean it should be.

[Trollathos]

Jeez guys, it's only a game.

[The North Polish Union]

Against. I'm all for imperialism.

Not to mention all the problems with this proposal and Karpathos's grudge against TNI.

[SkyDip]

Strongly AGAINST this proposal for use of slanderous lies, misinformation, and all but stated attack by the author for personal misgivings.

[Roven]

I didn't believe the preposal but I think TNI's regional factbook speaks for itself. I voted for simply because I don't like raiders.

[Klaus Devestatorie]

I struggle to get along with TNI on the best of days, but this is ridiculous.

[Cerian Quilor]

Jeez guys, it's only a game.

That's not really a refuge. We're also playing the game - part of this game is opposing things like this, if we don't like them.

If we were saying 'The player behind Karpathos is an evil nasty terrible person for writing this', then you could go 'jeez guys'.

All we're doing is talking about this in the context of the game. Balder's government is offended (going by the Balderian statements), but the government exists entirely in the context of the game, so they aren't going beyond the game's confines.

@Roven: TNI aren't raiders. And passing badly written resolutions is never a good idea.