NATION

PASSWORD

[Passed] Rainforest Protection Act

A carefully preserved record of the most notable World Assembly debates.

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
Grobladonia
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 114
Founded: Mar 01, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Grobladonia » Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:21 pm

Alqania wrote:"The Queendom is delighted to see a proposal on preservation of tropical rainforests", said Princess Christine with a broad smile. "For those representatives that may not be aware of it, I should add that Alqania proper has a tropical climate and that all of our forests there would fall within the tropical rainforest definition of this proposal. And on a personal note, I care greatly about this topic, not the least because I happen to own a bit of rainforest. We do have a few critical comments to offer however."

The Scientific States wrote:The Tropical Rainforest Preservation Act


"Category and strength or area of effect?"


I am glad to see that you support this, Deputy Ambassador and I will try to address the points you have raised.

Category: Environmental Industry Affected: All Businesses

I had sent a request to the delegation from The Scientific States a few hours ago to add such data, but they have not responded yet.

Alqania wrote:
Description: The General Assembly

Recognizing tropical rainforests as are forests characterized by high rainfall, home to many unique eco systems with a variety of creatures, and flora and fauna.

Aware that tropical rainforests play a crucial role in maintaining a stable climate by absorbing and encapsulating vast amounts of CO2.

Believing that the preservation of tropical rainforests are is beneficial because they absorb vast quantities of carbon dioxide.

Further Believing that tropical rainforests are home to millions of different species, and contain many beneficial aspects to help the Global Climate.

Concerned that continued degradation will tip the balance and transform them from carbon sinks into carbon sources, thus increasing the rate of global warming.


"The second to fifth of these clauses could probably be merged into a single clause, perhaps something like this would be enough:"

Believing that tropical rainforests, through their biodiversity and absorption of vast amounts of carbon dioxide, often play a crucial role in maintaining a stable climate on a planetary level.


These are reasonable suggestions, but any changes will have to be discussed with the delegation from The Scientific States. I would however prefer a tropical rainforests role as a carbon sink be maintained, even in a merged version since I believe it to be an important point.

Alqania wrote:
Further concerned that the practice of slash-and-burn agriculture destroys vast swaths of tropical rainforests each year.

Noting that tropical rainforests may contain as yet undiscovered plant species who's whose potential medicinal properties may lead to important advances in medical science.

Further Noting that tropical rainforests are home to many hunter-gatherer tribes who's whose lives and lifestyles are threatened by deforestation and contact with diseases that they have no immunity towards.


"The Queendom would prefer if the 'hunter-gatherer' part were stricken, as that is not an accurate description of all the people living in tropical rainforests, nor is it only hunter-gatherers that are threatened by deforestation and new diseases."


It is not the most accurate, this is true, but my delegation feels that this distinction is necessary. When writing this resolution we first preferred the term "indigenous". But some indigenous populations that live in or around rainforests are agricultural in nature and practice slash-and-burn agriculture, while others have a more primitive lifestyle that does not impact the environment in any meaningful way. Since these populations needed to be exempted by this resolution a way of legally distinguishing them was necessary and this was the best we were able to come up with. There may be alternatives. Would the terms "non-industrial tribe" or "non-industrial aboriginal group" be acceptable?

Alqania wrote:
Worried that continued destruction of the world's tropical rainforests will rob science of the chance to fully study this environment and its potential contributions to medicine.


"This could probably be merged with the earlier clause about medicinal potential."


Again, this is reasonable, but will have to be discussed with the delegation from The Scientific States before any changes are made.

Alqania wrote:
The Tropical Rainforest Protection Agency creates and enforces the following rules,

1. Mandates that tropical rainforest areas be given national park or equivalent status, with all the protection that entails.


"Does national park status exist internationally?"


No, it does not seem to be defined in any current GA resolution so it may be necessary to define it here.

Alqania wrote:
Further Concerned That there has yet been a WA resolution to conquer the atrocities of tropical rainforest deforestation, which include extinction of animals, displacion displacement of native residents, and drastic environmental consequences that aren't limited to changes of Eco-systems and droughts,

Defining the following terms:

a. Tropical rainforest – a forest ecosystem characterized by mean annual temperatures above 24 °C and annual precipitation greater than 800 cm;

b. Slash-and-burn agriculture – an agricultural technique which involves cutting and burning of forests or woodlands to create fields.


Hereby establishes The Tropical Rainforest Protection Agency, which is dedicated to preserving large areas of rainforests from certain business practices, as well as managing industries use of rainforests regarding cutting down trees for paper and timber,


"The Queendom is hesitant to allow a WA agency to manage Alqanian lumber and paper industries."

Alqania wrote:
4. Exempts indigenous tribes from those provisions that would lead to the destruction of their lifestyles.

5. Strongly encourages nations to seek the development of new and more sustainable agricultural techniques that can improve the lives of farmers living in or around tropical rainforest areas.


6. Authorizes the TRPA to:

- conduct inspections of national tropical rainforests in order to determine the state of said rainforests

-impose quotas or bans on certain types of timber that is obtained from tropical rainforests

-make these quotas dependent on the reforestation of an equal or greater surface of land formerly classified as tropical rainforest

-levy fines on national and private entities that fail to comply to the terms of this resolution

Co-Authored by Grobladonia


"The Queendom is hesitant to allow a WA agency to impose quotas and bans on Alqanian lumber and paper industries. We find it perfectly possible to achieve sustainability without such draconian measures."

"The Queendom suspects that, as currently written, this proposal may be illegal for failing to do anything other than creating a committee."


There, of course two points to address here.

Firstly, since some WA nations may be unwilling to implement any form of environmental protection there is a need for a certain degree of international oversight. This may be somewhat disruptive, but it is the only way to ensure that there is compliance.

Secondly, regarding the illegality of this resolution in its current form, I fear you may be right. This draft is a combination of the efforts of my delegation and that from The Scientific States. In the version we proposed there were seven points in the final section of the resolution, all organized under the "Hereby" clause, and establishing the TRPA was just one of them. Our counterparts from TSS changed it to its present form, and we accepted these changes, despite some reservations. We will bring this up with them as soon as possible.


Araraukar wrote:
I understand your concerns, but over the long run protecting tropical rainforests and the stability of the climate may be more advantageous economically.

To whom? Not the nation with the rainforests, I'm surmising. (OOC: And again, not all nations reside on the same planet.)


We in Grobladonia prefer to take a utilitarian approach to all matters and find the solution that benefits the most people for the longest amount of time. In the long term, if tropical rainforests are allowed to be irresponsibly exploited then the planetary climate may suffer and extreme weather phenomena (such as droughts, tornadoes, forest fires, floods) may become increasingly common. The economic impact from these would be much larger, more widespread and longer lasting than the short to mid-term impact on the economies of some nations that rely on the exploitation of tropical rainforests.

George Grognarius,
USSG Ambassador to the World Assembly

OOC:

Araraukar wrote:One more thing to point out; the tropical rainforests aren't "CO2 sinks", nor do they produce excess amounts of oxygen. They produce about as much as they absorb; when things decompose, the carbon returns to the cycle, and the decomposition and all the creatures that breathe in oxygen (plants do that too), also produce CO2. If you want oxygen producers, look at plankton, and for carbon deposits, look at the "organic snow" that ends up on the sea bottom.

Biodiversity would be the only selling point for excessive tropical forests protections. And even then the same should be extended to any other widely diverse ecosystem.


This is the article that gave me the inspiration for that part of the resolution. I realize that NS isn't like our world, but when I look for concrete data or inspiration RL is the only place I can go to.

I'll try to find some improvements to make it planet-neutral.
Last edited by Grobladonia on Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:50 pm, edited 3 times in total.
I broke the Corrupt a Wish thread! :D

The Saint James Islands wrote:Grobladonia is very sneaky...
He is a devilishly sneaky devil...
- referring to a clue in a guessing game I made.

Economic Left/Right: -7.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.74

User avatar
Potted Plants United
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1282
Founded: Jan 14, 2013
Democratic Socialists

Postby Potted Plants United » Fri Jun 07, 2013 3:56 pm

OOC: This is hardly "all businesses", if it's just about forest preservation. All businesses is the environmental category version of "significant" strength on other categories. Wouldn't woodchipping be a more logical choice?
This nation is a plant-based hivemind. It's current ambassador for interacting with humanoids is a bipedal plant creature standing at almost two metres tall. In IC in the WA.
My main nation is Araraukar.
Separatist Peoples wrote:"NOPENOPENOPENOPENOPENOPENOPENOPE!"
- Mr. Bell, when introduced to PPU's newest moving plant

User avatar
Grobladonia
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 114
Founded: Mar 01, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Grobladonia » Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:03 pm

OOC: I mostly agree with you, but there is a small problem with game mechanics on this point. By the text of the resolution, both woodchipping and uranium mining should be affected, while automobile manufacturing should not. Unfortunately, there's no way to select only those two.
I broke the Corrupt a Wish thread! :D

The Saint James Islands wrote:Grobladonia is very sneaky...
He is a devilishly sneaky devil...
- referring to a clue in a guessing game I made.

Economic Left/Right: -7.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.74

User avatar
Araraukar
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15899
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:27 pm

Grobladonia wrote:OOC: I mostly agree with you, but there is a small problem with game mechanics on this point. By the text of the resolution, both woodchipping and uranium mining should be affected, while automobile manufacturing should not. Unfortunately, there's no way to select only those two.

So drop the uranium mining from it. You'll have better chances of getting somewhere with this, if you leave the nuclear business alone, anyway.
- ambassador miss Janis Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk. In IC in the WA.
Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.

User avatar
The Orson Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31630
Founded: Mar 20, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Orson Empire » Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:04 pm

The Scientific States wrote:
North America Inc wrote:How exactly do you plan to fine nations who fail to achieve you quota? How are you going to enforce it?


It sounds like a dumb answer, but the TRPA is govern authority to put fines on businesses who fail to reach the quota.

Nations could just ignore the fines.

User avatar
The Scientific States
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18643
Founded: Apr 29, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Scientific States » Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:38 pm

The Orson Empire wrote:
The Scientific States wrote:
It sounds like a dumb answer, but the TRPA is govern authority to put fines on businesses who fail to reach the quota.

Nations could just ignore the fines.



Read the entire proposal to see what happens to people who ignore fines.
Centrist, Ordoliberal, Bisexual, Agnostic, Pro Social Market Economy, Pro Labour Union, Secular Humanist, Cautious Optimist, Pro LGBT, Pro Marijuana Legalization, Pro Humanitarian Intervention etc etc.
Compass
Economic Left/Right: 0.88
Social Liberal/Authoritarian: -6.62
Political Stuff I Wrote
Why Pinochet and Allende were both terrible
The UKIP: A Bad Choice for Britain
Why South Africa is in a sorry state, and how it can be fixed.
Massive List of My OOC Pros and Cons
Hey, Putin! Leave Ukraine Alone!

User avatar
Araraukar
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15899
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Sun Jun 09, 2013 12:55 pm

The Scientific States wrote:
The Orson Empire wrote:Nations could just ignore the fines.

Read the entire proposal to see what happens to people who ignore fines.

I read it and there's nothing saying what happens to them. "Levy fines" is the only thing referring to any fines, and if a nation/individual just refuses to pay - perhaps arguing that they were not in violation of the clauses mentioned, there's nothing that says what happens then. Also no way to settle disputes.
Last edited by Araraukar on Sun Jun 09, 2013 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- ambassador miss Janis Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk. In IC in the WA.
Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.

User avatar
The Scientific States
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18643
Founded: Apr 29, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Scientific States » Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:08 pm

Alqania wrote:"The Queendom is delighted to see a proposal on preservation of tropical rainforests", said Princess Christine with a broad smile. "For those representatives that may not be aware of it, I should add that Alqania proper has a tropical climate and that all of our forests there would fall within the tropical rainforest definition of this proposal. And on a personal note, I care greatly about this topic, not the least because I happen to own a bit of rainforest. We do have a few critical comments to offer however."

The Scientific States wrote:The Tropical Rainforest Preservation Act


"Category and strength or area of effect?"

Description: The General Assembly

Recognizing tropical rainforests as are forests characterized by high rainfall, home to many unique eco systems with a variety of creatures, and flora and fauna.

Aware that tropical rainforests play a crucial role in maintaining a stable climate by absorbing and encapsulating vast amounts of CO2.

Believing that the preservation of tropical rainforests are is beneficial because they absorb vast quantities of carbon dioxide.

Further Believing that tropical rainforests are home to millions of different species, and contain many beneficial aspects to help the Global Climate.

Concerned that continued degradation will tip the balance and transform them from carbon sinks into carbon sources, thus increasing the rate of global warming.


"The second to fifth of these clauses could probably be merged into a single clause, perhaps something like this would be enough:"

Believing that tropical rainforests, through their biodiversity and absorption of vast amounts of carbon dioxide, often play a crucial role in maintaining a stable climate on a planetary level.


Further concerned that the practice of slash-and-burn agriculture destroys vast swaths of tropical rainforests each year.

Noting that tropical rainforests may contain as yet undiscovered plant species who's whose potential medicinal properties may lead to important advances in medical science.

Further Noting that tropical rainforests are home to many hunter-gatherer tribes who's whose lives and lifestyles are threatened by deforestation and contact with diseases that they have no immunity towards.


"The Queendom would prefer if the 'hunter-gatherer' part were stricken, as that is not an accurate description of all the people living in tropical rainforests, nor is it only hunter-gatherers that are threatened by deforestation and new diseases."

Worried that continued destruction of the world's tropical rainforests will rob science of the chance to fully study this environment and its potential contributions to medicine.


"This could probably be merged with the earlier clause about medicinal potential."

Further Concerned That there has yet been a WA resolution to conquer the atrocities of tropical rainforest deforestation, which include extinction of animals, displacion displacement of native residents, and drastic environmental consequences that aren't limited to changes of Eco-systems and droughts,

Defining the following terms:

a. Tropical rainforest – a forest ecosystem characterized by mean annual temperatures above 24 °C and annual precipitation greater than 800 cm;

b. Slash-and-burn agriculture – an agricultural technique which involves cutting and burning of forests or woodlands to create fields.


Hereby establishes The Tropical Rainforest Protection Agency, which is dedicated to preserving large areas of rainforests from certain business practices, as well as managing industries use of rainforests regarding cutting down trees for paper and timber,


"The Queendom is hesitant to allow a WA agency to manage Alqanian lumber and paper industries."

The Tropical Rainforest Protection Agency creates and enforces the following rules,

1. Mandates that tropical rainforest areas be given national park or equivalent status, with all the protection that entails.


"Does national park status exist internationally?"

2. Bans the use of slash-and-burn techniques in rainforest areas in WA nations.

3. Also bans the exploitation of oil, natural gas or any other mineral resources in the tropical rainforests of WA nations.


"The implication that mineral resource exploitation is detrimental to forest preservation is not technology level neutral. It is perfectly possible that a member state with advanced resource extraction technology would be able to exploit mineral resources in tropical rainforests without endangering the environment, is it not?"

4. Exempts indigenous tribes from those provisions that would lead to the destruction of their lifestyles.

5. Strongly encourages nations to seek the development of new and more sustainable agricultural techniques that can improve the lives of farmers living in or around tropical rainforest areas.


6. Authorizes the TRPA to:

- conduct inspections of national tropical rainforests in order to determine the state of said rainforests

-impose quotas or bans on certain types of timber that is obtained from tropical rainforests

-make these quotas dependent on the reforestation of an equal or greater surface of land formerly classified as tropical rainforest

-levy fines on national and private entities that fail to comply to the terms of this resolution

Co-Authored by Grobladonia


"The Queendom is hesitant to allow a WA agency to impose quotas and bans on Alqanian lumber and paper industries. We find it perfectly possible to achieve sustainability without such draconian measures."

"The Queendom suspects that, as currently written, this proposal may be illegal for failing to do anything other than creating a committee."



Thanks for the help!
Centrist, Ordoliberal, Bisexual, Agnostic, Pro Social Market Economy, Pro Labour Union, Secular Humanist, Cautious Optimist, Pro LGBT, Pro Marijuana Legalization, Pro Humanitarian Intervention etc etc.
Compass
Economic Left/Right: 0.88
Social Liberal/Authoritarian: -6.62
Political Stuff I Wrote
Why Pinochet and Allende were both terrible
The UKIP: A Bad Choice for Britain
Why South Africa is in a sorry state, and how it can be fixed.
Massive List of My OOC Pros and Cons
Hey, Putin! Leave Ukraine Alone!

User avatar
Grobladonia
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 114
Founded: Mar 01, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Grobladonia » Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:30 pm

"I've discussed some of the issues that have been brought up with The Scientific States but I'm very busy IRL at the moment, so any changes to the resolution will come no sooner than Friday.
I broke the Corrupt a Wish thread! :D

The Saint James Islands wrote:Grobladonia is very sneaky...
He is a devilishly sneaky devil...
- referring to a clue in a guessing game I made.

Economic Left/Right: -7.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.74

User avatar
Mojave
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 495
Founded: Apr 03, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Mojave » Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:39 pm

Okay, I like the writing. Of course you're gonna have to add all the boldtext. The law makes sense, but I don't think others would agree.
First off, dozing rainforests are a great source of wood,
plus (I don't know if this matters), there is an issue where you can get a ton of uranium by cutting them down. The animals there could be taken for experimentation and once again, the wood to be gained should not go unnoticed. But other than that, I support this proposal, and will probably approve it if it gets noticed.
"All warfare is based on deception." -Sun Tzu
Proud member and WA Delegate for Nesapo!
My political compass:
Economic Left/Right: -6.00. Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.74.
1. It's all over
2. Being Invaded
[3]. Military Decimated
4. Losing Slightly
5. Winning/Steady
6. Peacetime

"There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, where the sea's asleep and the rivers dream, people made of smoke and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice and somewhere else the tea is getting cold. Come on, Ace, we've got work to do." - Number 7

User avatar
Retired WerePenguins
Diplomat
 
Posts: 805
Founded: Apr 26, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Retired WerePenguins » Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:53 pm

This looks like an interesting proposal. There is a part of me that finds strange pleasure in it; seeing that rainforests are part of the daily issues even for nations in the Antarctic. I love to find harmony in the irony.

Alqania wrote:
The Scientific States wrote:The Tropical Rainforest Preservation Act


"Category and strength or area of effect?"


Clearly "Environmental" ... the Area of Effect is interesting. I would suggest either Woodchipping or Uranium Mining. I would go with the later because while the former requires wood, the later typically requires clear cutting of the forest in order to mine the uranium (at least in all of the daily issues on this subject) and a ban on deforestation would directly impact their ability to mine like crazy.
Totally Naked
Tourist Eating
WA NS
___"That's the one thing I like about the WA; it allows me to shove my moral compass up your legislative branch, assuming a majority agrees." James Blonde
___"Even so, I see nothing in WA policy that requires that the resolution have a concrete basis in fact," Minister from Frenequesta
___"There are some things worse than death. I believe being Canadian Prime Minister is one of them." Brother Maynard.

User avatar
Grobladonia
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 114
Founded: Mar 01, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Grobladonia » Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:49 pm

Mojave wrote:Okay, I like the writing. Of course you're gonna have to add all the boldtext. The law makes sense, but I don't think others would agree.
First off, dozing rainforests are a great source of wood,
plus (I don't know if this matters), there is an issue where you can get a ton of uranium by cutting them down. The animals there could be taken for experimentation and once again, the wood to be gained should not go unnoticed. But other than that, I support this proposal, and will probably approve it if it gets noticed.


It seems the language on this matter will definitely need to be made more clear. The resolution doesn't intend to ban logging completely. The ban would be only on types of timber that come from trees that are crucial to the ecosystem, are rare and/or regenerate very slowly. The rest would simply be subject to quotas that will be tied to reforestation efforts.

Retired WerePenguins wrote:This looks like an interesting proposal. There is a part of me that finds strange pleasure in it; seeing that rainforests are part of the daily issues even for nations in the Antarctic. I love to find harmony in the irony.

Alqania wrote:
"Category and strength or area of effect?"


Clearly "Environmental" ... the Area of Effect is interesting. I would suggest either Woodchipping or Uranium Mining. I would go with the later because while the former requires wood, the later typically requires clear cutting of the forest in order to mine the uranium (at least in all of the daily issues on this subject) and a ban on deforestation would directly impact their ability to mine like crazy.


Actually it may affect only Woodchipping. Alqania pointed out earlier that some nations that have Future Tech may posses mining techniques that do not destroy the ecosystem. So in order to make the resolution tech-neutral the language will probably have to be modified to take highly advanced mining technology into account. This is one of the many thing I need to discuss in greater detail with The Scientific States.
I broke the Corrupt a Wish thread! :D

The Saint James Islands wrote:Grobladonia is very sneaky...
He is a devilishly sneaky devil...
- referring to a clue in a guessing game I made.

Economic Left/Right: -7.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.74

User avatar
Grobladonia
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 114
Founded: Mar 01, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Grobladonia » Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:58 pm

OOC:

Sorry for the double post. I just wanted to let everyone that is interested know that a new version of this resolution can be found in the first post. It hopefully addresses as many of the issues that have been brought up so far as possible.
I broke the Corrupt a Wish thread! :D

The Saint James Islands wrote:Grobladonia is very sneaky...
He is a devilishly sneaky devil...
- referring to a clue in a guessing game I made.

Economic Left/Right: -7.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.74

User avatar
Grobladonia
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 114
Founded: Mar 01, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Grobladonia » Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:50 am

Just one little bump to make sure anybody that is interested in this has a chance to comment. If not, then this is probably going to be submitted soon.
I broke the Corrupt a Wish thread! :D

The Saint James Islands wrote:Grobladonia is very sneaky...
He is a devilishly sneaky devil...
- referring to a clue in a guessing game I made.

Economic Left/Right: -7.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.74

User avatar
Ceni
Senator
 
Posts: 4349
Founded: Jun 26, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Ceni » Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:45 am

Quotas are usually a bad idea for WA proposals. What if I have a sustainable logging operation and I produce more than the quotas? Who sets the quotas? Is there any process of appeal for the quotas?

Grobladonia wrote:Just one little bump to make sure anybody that is interested in this has a chance to comment. If not, then this is probably going to be submitted soon.


This is less than a month old. There aren't any perfect proposals. You shouldn't be rushing to submit- maybe there is a serious flaw that no one has noticed yet.
THE REPUBLIC OF CENI (the user behind this nation uses he/him/his pronouns)
Air Terranea | The Wanderlust Guide to Ceni | Seven Restaurants in Seven Days: Cataloging Cenian Food
Champions: Di Bradini Cup 38, U-18 World Cup 17
Runners-up: Di Bradini Cup 39, Di Bradini Cup 41
NSTT #1s: Lonus Varalin, Ardil Navsal (singles), Gyrachor Rentos, Val Korekal, Elia Xal/Fia Xal (doubles)
UICA Champions' Cup titles (1): 1860 Azoth
World Cup 76, World Cup 79
Baptism of Fire 61
Cup of Harmony 63
Copa Rushmori 41
International Basketball Championships 20
Cenian Open (Grand Slam) 1-8
<Schottia> I always think of Ceni as what it would be like if Long Island was its own nation, ran by Bernie Sanders lol.

User avatar
Grobladonia
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 114
Founded: Mar 01, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Grobladonia » Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:14 am

Ceni wrote:Quotas are usually a bad idea for WA proposals. What if I have a sustainable logging operation and I produce more than the quotas? Who sets the quotas? Is there any process of appeal for the quotas?


OOC: Well, the idea behind the quotas is to strike a balance between environmental and economic concerns. An outright ban on logging in tropical rainforests would devastate the economies of some nations, while leaving the process completely unregulated would be harmful to the environment. The quotas were the best solution that I could come up with. It is by no means perfect, but I don't see any other way around it. If anybody has an alternate solution then it would be most welcome :).

Ceni wrote:
Grobladonia wrote:Just one little bump to make sure anybody that is interested in this has a chance to comment. If not, then this is probably going to be submitted soon.


This is less than a month old. There aren't any perfect proposals. You shouldn't be rushing to submit- maybe there is a serious flaw that no one has noticed yet.


Okay, we'll wait. To be honest me and The Scientific States are both novices when it comes to resolutions. This is the first such project for both of us.
I broke the Corrupt a Wish thread! :D

The Saint James Islands wrote:Grobladonia is very sneaky...
He is a devilishly sneaky devil...
- referring to a clue in a guessing game I made.

Economic Left/Right: -7.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.74

User avatar
Grobladonia
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 114
Founded: Mar 01, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Grobladonia » Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:41 am

Sorry for another bump (I really don't like doing this), but if nobody has any other comments or suggestions then perhaps it would be time to submit this to the WA. I'm thinking in a week or so when TSS returns from a trip.
I broke the Corrupt a Wish thread! :D

The Saint James Islands wrote:Grobladonia is very sneaky...
He is a devilishly sneaky devil...
- referring to a clue in a guessing game I made.

Economic Left/Right: -7.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.74

User avatar
United Federation of Canada
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1417
Founded: Oct 09, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby United Federation of Canada » Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:43 pm

Looks good to me. Hopefully it gets to quorum now.

User avatar
Araraukar
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15899
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:36 pm

I don't see a category and a strength anywhere.

The Scientific States wrote:Concerned that continued degradation will tip the balance and transform them from carbon sinks into carbon sources, thus increasing the rate of global warming

Considering that not all nations reside on the same planet, you might want to re-word that a little bit. (And most of the preamble, actually, it's very RL-centric.)

Further concerned that there has yet to be a WA resolution to tackle the issues generated by tropical rainforest deforestation, which include extinction of species, displacement of native residents, and drastic environmental consequences.
Defining the following terms:

You're lacking an empty line from between those two.

Defining the following terms:
a. Tropical rainforest – a forest ecosystem characterized by mean annual temperatures above 24 °C and annual precipitation greater than 800 cm;

This is, again, very RL-centric. On other planets the temperatures and precipitation numbers might be very different.

b. Slash-and-burn agriculture – an agricultural technique which involves cutting and burning of forests or woodlands to create fields.

Mind you, slash-and-burn agriculture used to mean you cut and burned the woodland, farmed it a few years, and then left it to regrow the forest. So you might want to add to the definition, if you mean the fields will not be allowed to return to woodlands again.

c. Protected area – An ecosystem with an area of at least 1000 hectares of natural habitat, not altered by exploitation or occupation that is subject to special legal protection and restrictions to exploitation

Numeric definitions of any sort = bad, bad, bad idea. Someone might want to protect a plantpot, someone a small island, neither of which would get anywhere close your numbers.

Mandates that tropical rainforest areas be given protected area status.

Bans the use of slash-and-burn techniques in rainforest areas of WA nations.

*facepalms* You still haven't gotten it, have you? There are nations that reside, in their entirety, within tropical rainforest zone, where every piece of untouched land is tropical rainforest. You would be banning any development projects from them, forever.

Also Bans the exploitation of mineral resources in tropical rainforest areas through any techniques that damage the surface ecosystem, in part or in full.

Same as above.

Exempts non-industrial tribes from those provisions that would lead to the destruction of their lifestyles.

And if the non-industrial tribe then becomes industrialized, what then?

-(II)establish, on a case by case basis, the quantity of timber that may be exploited from a nation's tropical rainforests.

But you just said they can't be exploited? You can't have it both ways.

Prohibits WA nations from accepting imports of timber or mineral resources that are not obtained in a manner compliant with this resolution.

Well you'll be hard-pressed to try and examine non-WA nations' practices - if the non-WA nation says "oh yes, these were gotten in compliance to that resolution crap", but won't let you go check, then what?

(All the edits are to fix my inability to write code right tonight.)
Last edited by Araraukar on Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
- ambassador miss Janis Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk. In IC in the WA.
Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.

User avatar
Normlpeople
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1597
Founded: Apr 25, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Normlpeople » Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:28 am

Somehow it has Quorom. I wish I had a clue how to report it as illegal, due to the several RL references to arbitrary measurements.
Words and Opinion of Clover the Clever
Ambassador to the WA for the Armed Kingdom of Normlpeople

User avatar
Grays Harbor
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18574
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Grays Harbor » Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:36 am

Normlpeople wrote:Somehow it has Quorom. I wish I had a clue how to report it as illegal, due to the several RL references to arbitrary measurements.

OOC: That can be done via GHR, however, I believe that there is precedent that weights and measures are not considered RL references but instead fall under the "common knowledge" (or something similar) heading. It is rather unreasonable, I believe, to expect folks to make up an entirely new set of terms solely for use in a draft proposal. Although, some of us would appreciate it if they were put in both Metric and Standard (example: 100 Hectares/247 Acres)
Everything you know about me is wrong. Or a rumor. Something like that.

Not Ta'veren

User avatar
Kryozerkia
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 11096
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Kryozerkia » Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:54 am

Normlpeople wrote:Somehow it has Quorom. I wish I had a clue how to report it as illegal, due to the several RL references to arbitrary measurements.

Conventional metric and imperial measurements are considered exempt from the rule.
Problem to Report?
Game-side: Getting Help
Forum-side: Moderation
Technical issue/suggestion: Technical
A-well-a, don't you know about the bird
♦ Well, everybody knows that the bird is the word ♦
♦ A-well-a, bird, bird, b-bird's the word

Get the cheese to Sickbay

"Ok folks, show's over... Nothing to see here... Show's OH MY GOD! A horrible plane crash! Hey everybody, get a load of this flaming wreckage! Come on, crowd around, crowd around, don't be shy, crowd around!" -- Chief Wiggum

User avatar
The Two Jerseys
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 20985
Founded: Jun 07, 2012
Father Knows Best State

Postby The Two Jerseys » Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:44 am

Does the proposal mentioning global warming count as a RL issue?
"The Duke of Texas" is too formal for regular use. Just call me "Your Grace".
"If I would like to watch goodness, sanity, God and logic being fucked I would watch Japanese porn." -Nightkill the Emperor
"This thread makes me wish I was a moron so that I wouldn't have to comprehend how stupid the topic is." -The Empire of Pretantia
Head of State: HM King Louis
Head of Government: The Rt. Hon. James O'Dell MP, Prime Minister
Ambassador to the World Assembly: HE Sir John Ross "J.R." Ewing II, Bt.
Join Excalibur Squadron. We're Commandos who fly Spitfires. Chicks dig Commandos who fly Spitfires.

User avatar
Grobladonia
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 114
Founded: Mar 01, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Grobladonia » Fri Aug 16, 2013 5:29 am

OOC: First of all, sorry for taking so long to answer. I haven't been feeling very well in recent days.

By the time all this was posted the resolution had already been submitted, so there was little that could be done. I'll still try to address some of the issues that were raised.

Araraukar wrote:I don't see a category and a strength anywhere.


I'll tell TSS to fix that.

Araraukar wrote:
The Scientific States wrote:Concerned that continued degradation will tip the balance and transform them from carbon sinks into carbon sources, thus increasing the rate of global warming

Considering that not all nations reside on the same planet, you might want to re-word that a little bit. (And most of the preamble, actually, it's very RL-centric.)

Araraukar wrote:
Defining the following terms:
a. Tropical rainforest – a forest ecosystem characterized by mean annual temperatures above 24 °C and annual precipitation greater than 800 cm;

This is, again, very RL-centric. On other planets the temperatures and precipitation numbers might be very different.

Araraukar wrote:
Mandates that tropical rainforest areas be given protected area status.

Bans the use of slash-and-burn techniques in rainforest areas of WA nations.

*facepalms* You still haven't gotten it, have you? There are nations that reside, in their entirety, within tropical rainforest zone, where every piece of untouched land is tropical rainforest. You would be banning any development projects from them, forever.


Perhaps it does look somewhat RL-centric, but this is because there is simply no way to take into account all the possible sorts of environments and nations that players can imagine. This game allows people to play RP pretty much any sort of nation they want, regardless of whether it's even realistically possible. By this reasoning, just about every resolution out there should be repealed because they haven't accounted for some aspect of some player's creativity. It's just impossible to account for every type of environment imaginable, especially within a 3500 character limit.

On the other hand, if it's made to be so vague as to include just about every possibility, then it could wind up being useless because of too many loopholes.

Also, as far as I can tell most, if not all, resolutions were inspired some RL issue or another, so our taking ideas out of RL is by no means unique.

Araraukar wrote:
b. Slash-and-burn agriculture – an agricultural technique which involves cutting and burning of forests or woodlands to create fields.

Mind you, slash-and-burn agriculture used to mean you cut and burned the woodland, farmed it a few years, and then left it to regrow the forest. So you might want to add to the definition, if you mean the fields will not be allowed to return to woodlands again.


I used the current RL definition because it seemed like the hardest to attack option.

Araraukar wrote:
c. Protected area – An ecosystem with an area of at least 1000 hectares of natural habitat, not altered by exploitation or occupation that is subject to special legal protection and restrictions to exploitation

Numeric definitions of any sort = bad, bad, bad idea. Someone might want to protect a plantpot, someone a small island, neither of which would get anywhere close your numbers.


If somebody wants to protect a plant pot they are free to do so. This resolution is aimed at protecting large areas who's destruction would have an impact at the level of a planetary climate.

Araraukar wrote:
Also Bans the exploitation of mineral resources in tropical rainforest areas through any techniques that damage the surface ecosystem, in part or in full.

Same as above.


Araraukar wrote:
-(II)establish, on a case by case basis, the quantity of timber that may be exploited from a nation's tropical rainforests.

But you just said they can't be exploited? You can't have it both ways.


Read it more carefully. It only bans mineral exploitation that harms the surface environment, which is the target of this resolution. It was included to try and account for those nations who's mining techniques are advanced enough that they no longer damage the surface environment.

Araraukar wrote:
Exempts non-industrial tribes from those provisions that would lead to the destruction of their lifestyles.

And if the non-industrial tribe then becomes industrialized, what then?


Then they cease being exempt. It was an allowance made for those groups of people who's impact on the environment is negligible at best.

Araraukar wrote:Well you'll be hard-pressed to try and examine non-WA nations' practices - if the non-WA nation says "oh yes, these were gotten in compliance to that resolution crap", but won't let you go check, then what?


The rules of the WA are pretty clear in saying that there is no was to make a resolution that affects non-WA nations.

Grays Harbor wrote: Although, some of us would appreciate it if they were put in both Metric and Standard (example: 100 Hectares/247 Acres)


That wouldn't have been a bad idea, but this resolution is already close to the character limit. Including both types of measurement would have pushed it over.

The Two Jerseys wrote:Does the proposal mentioning global warming count as a RL issue?


Resolutions are, as far as I can tell, inspired by RL issues to some extent. There is no way to completely sever the link between the game and the world where it's players live.

Also, since global warming is a by-product of industrial activity and deforestation, and since these activities exist withing the game, then it is plausible to assume that global warming and climate change would be issues that would exits within the world of NS, or at least some parts of it.
I broke the Corrupt a Wish thread! :D

The Saint James Islands wrote:Grobladonia is very sneaky...
He is a devilishly sneaky devil...
- referring to a clue in a guessing game I made.

Economic Left/Right: -7.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.74

User avatar
Sciongrad
Minister
 
Posts: 3060
Founded: Mar 11, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Sciongrad » Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:32 pm

Sciongrad is unsure as to whether it may be willing to lend its support to this proposal, but it most certainly cannot in its current state. Aside from pervasive grammatical errors and a distracting lack of punctuation, this proposal is very vague in some areas, and much too specific in others. Notably, regarding what special protections are constituted by "protected area" status, as this is currently up to interpretation. A similar problem arises regarding what is considered as a "non-industrial tribe."

The scope of the proposal is also very concerning. I don't see why only tropical rain forests deserve special protection, and why especially large ones should (theoretically) be treated any differently from smaller ones. It would be a much more worthwhile endeavor to write a proposal on deforestation in general, rather than legislating on such a specific concept.

The TRPA is also given no guidelines as to how it enforces its tasks.

establish, on a case by case basis, the quantity of timber that may be exploited from a nation's tropical rainforests.


What would they take into consideration? The ecological implications of such deforestation, most likely, but that's not stated anywhere. I'm not entirely sure a proposal of this nature requires a committee either, but I'll be willing to debate the merits of that claim once this proposal is thoroughly cleaned up. My suggestion would be to remove it from the queue, after which I'll be willing to provide more suggestions. In it's current state, Sciongrad would almost certainly vote against.
Last edited by Sciongrad on Fri Aug 16, 2013 3:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Natalia Santos, Plenipotentiary and Permanent Scionite Representative to the World Assembly


Ideological Bulwark #271


PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to WA Archives

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

Advertisement

Remove ads