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[PASSED] Liberate Nazi Europe

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The Gregorach
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Founded: Apr 09, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby The Gregorach » Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:49 am

The hypocrites try again, I see.

Try this on for size. If we are stuck keeping our region secure, we can't go invade other regions. Let's say this succeeds, and y'all seize our region. I guarantee you that we will not only have our WA's freed for raiding, but we will do so with blood in our eye, seeking revenge on those who wronged us.
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Hesse
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Founded: Oct 19, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Hesse » Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:55 am

This whole "liberation" just saddening. Hypocrisy at is finest.
Last edited by Hesse on Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Cerian Quilor
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Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Cerian Quilor » Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:56 am

Mad Jack wrote:
Shen Xin Lan wrote:
*Remaining seated, Delegate Vincent replies.*

Did that one pass? I'm not sure, since I have not access the archives, but I am sure that by your use of "tried," it failed.

So, why did it fail? Was it because someone knew this was a bad idea? Or was it because Haven is well-liked and the idea of "Liberating" regions in this manner had just started?

It was never submitted, due to massive opposition.

Nazi Europe did however manage to get a liberation of Islam passed just so they could raid it (this came out much much later).


That was, as I recall, Oh My Days, not NE as a whole. And Islam had been raided at the time anyway.
Never underestimate the power of cynicism, pessimism and negativity to prevent terrible things from happening. Only idealists try to build the future on a mountain of bodies.

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Allinlia
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Founded: Oct 24, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Allinlia » Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:02 pm

We are disappointed that such a travesty for what liberation proposals are supposed to stand for is being given serious consideration.

We will not support a blatant attempt to open the door to a raiding operation of a region regardless of how unsavory the authors of the legislation personally find the idea behind the region to be. Nor will we vote to lift the password on a region when it's natives are overwhelmingly against it's removal.

Today it's fascist regions, tomorrow might it be our own region because regions with alot of delegate votes up and decide one day that they don't care for ponies? or could it be your own password protected region?

Liberation proposals should only be for allowing control to return to a region's natives. If they were meant to allow a coalition of bored regions to launch a raid on a region whose natives do not wish to unseat their delegate than they would be called something quite different. against.
Last edited by Allinlia on Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:09 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=206814

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Altius
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Founded: Nov 19, 2012
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Postby Altius » Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:07 pm

I am voting in the affirmative solely because I despise Nazis.
Last edited by Altius on Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Imperium of Tanith
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Founded: Sep 29, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Imperium of Tanith » Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:28 pm

I am voting against this, not because that I'm a Nazi lover, but because I know for a solid fact that this is being put up so that we are essentially allowing Raider Regions like TNI and the Black Riders to walk in and take over.

This is all it is, permission to Raid. That's all.

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Netherheim
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Founded: Dec 22, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Netherheim » Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:40 pm

voted against, because F u thats why. its a nonsensical proposal and a total joke, give me an essay with reasons first and not `I hate nazi´s durhur`

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Captain Woodhouse
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Founded: Dec 30, 2011
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Postby Captain Woodhouse » Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:45 pm

Mengsk wrote:The delegation of Mengsk votes AGAINST this bill. Let Nazi Europe live in its own little delusional world.


My delusional world begins and ends with a fantasy of teaching the GCRs the difference between the singular possessive and plural forms of Nazi.

I harbor little hope that the world will recognize this unedited legislation for what it is: payback for my educational crusade. Gregorach is correct. Should you sink us with shit that reads as if you channeled Dogberry and Verges, by God there will be blood. I'm talking fire and brimstone coming down from the skies. Rivers and seas boiling! Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes, the dead rising from the grave, human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria!

Moderation has given us the green light to create NAZI EUROPE II: The Empire Strikes Back.

Wait for it.

Namaste,
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Mad Jack
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Founded: Nov 01, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Mad Jack » Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:54 pm

Imperium of Tanith wrote:I am voting against this, not because that I'm a Nazi lover, but because I know for a solid fact that this is being put up so that we are essentially allowing Raider Regions like TNI and the Black Riders to walk in and take over.

Actually it's so the GCR militaries can walk in and take over.
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Cerian Quilor
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Founded: Mar 30, 2012
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Postby Cerian Quilor » Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:05 pm

Imperium of Tanith wrote:I am voting against this, not because that I'm a Nazi lover, but because I know for a solid fact that this is being put up so that we are essentially allowing Raider Regions like TNI and the Black Riders to walk in and take over.

This is all it is, permission to Raid. That's all.

Nothing wrong with raiding at all.
Never underestimate the power of cynicism, pessimism and negativity to prevent terrible things from happening. Only idealists try to build the future on a mountain of bodies.

The Thing to Remember About NationStates is that it is an almost entirely social game - fundamentally, you have no power beyond your own ability to convince people to go along with your ideas. In that sense, even the most dictatorial region is fundamentally democratic.

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Kahchi
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Founded: May 26, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Kahchi » Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:13 pm

Haki, can you edit the OP? Its title should acknowledge that this is now at vote.

Allinlia wrote:Today it's fascist regions, tomorrow might it be our own region because regions with alot of delegate votes up and decide one day that they don't care for ponies? or could it be your own password protected region?

And then we'll end up eating babies, burning hot dogs, massacring churches, and vandalizing people for the glory of Cthulu.

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Cerian Quilor
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Founded: Mar 30, 2012
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Postby Cerian Quilor » Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:14 pm

Never underestimate the power of cynicism, pessimism and negativity to prevent terrible things from happening. Only idealists try to build the future on a mountain of bodies.

The Thing to Remember About NationStates is that it is an almost entirely social game - fundamentally, you have no power beyond your own ability to convince people to go along with your ideas. In that sense, even the most dictatorial region is fundamentally democratic.

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Nulvelith
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Founded: Jan 14, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Nulvelith » Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:23 pm

This is nothing more than an excuse to raid and pillage this region under the authority of the WA. This is a polite request for permission to overthrow and dominate a region simply because their ideologies differ from yours - and that is exactly the kind of thing the Security Council is supposed to prevent. There is no other stated reason, besides "it looks like there are less people in the area, so let us come in and take over for them." Utterly preposterous, even to us extremists here in Nulvelith.
- Her Ladyship, Empress of the Rose Feather, Emylae Nul'Veylin

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Cerian Quilor
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Founded: Mar 30, 2012
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Postby Cerian Quilor » Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:42 pm

That's the whole point of the WA. Mob rule. :)
Never underestimate the power of cynicism, pessimism and negativity to prevent terrible things from happening. Only idealists try to build the future on a mountain of bodies.

The Thing to Remember About NationStates is that it is an almost entirely social game - fundamentally, you have no power beyond your own ability to convince people to go along with your ideas. In that sense, even the most dictatorial region is fundamentally democratic.

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Die Volkes Lebensraum
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Founded: Mar 06, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Die Volkes Lebensraum » Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:55 pm

This is the proposal in a nutshell:

Nazi europe has a detrimental ideology (why is it detrimental then?)
Basically you just dont like the ideology.

Nazi Europe has no military
This makes it no threat... No need to be dealt with.

It was condemned
Yes. Two years ago.

We want to raid it.


Is that really a credible resolution??? The only supporters of this seem to be people who supported just because they hate nazism. In fact it is debatable whether it legal as it does not explain why the ideology of the region is relevant to nationstates, it just says its bad.
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Tywwyywwq
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Founded: Mar 12, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Tywwyywwq » Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:02 pm

Allinlia wrote:Today it's fascist regions, tomorrow might it be our own region because regions with alot of delegate votes up and decide one day that they don't care for ponies? or could it be your own password protected region?

Do you honestly believe that'll happen?

I voted for this proposal. Smash the fash!

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Nicer potlimitomaha
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Founded: Jan 06, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Nicer potlimitomaha » Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:05 pm

Altius wrote:I am voting in the affirmative solely because I despise Nazis.


This

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North Chicopee
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Founded: Mar 01, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby North Chicopee » Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:09 pm

Nazism is a horrible ideology, but that is not reason enough to invade the region (There are a lot of regions with terrible ideologies). They are small and powerless and they are no threat to Chicopee or our region. Keeping them in their tiny, condemned region seems okay with me. Liberate means just that: free regions from raiders and return them to their rightful owners. This is an invasion just for the hell of it and we believe it goes beyond the intended power of the Security Council.
"penna petit placidam sub libertate quietem" - “By the pen we seek peace, but peace only under liberty”

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Mad Jack
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Founded: Nov 01, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Mad Jack » Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:15 pm

Die Volkes Lebensraum wrote:In fact it is debatable whether it legal as it does not explain why the ideology of the region is relevant to nationstates, it just says its bad.

If it's at vote, it's legal.
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Netherheim
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Founded: Dec 22, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Netherheim » Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:28 pm

North Chicopee wrote:Nazism is a horrible ideology, but that is not reason enough to invade the region (There are a lot of regions with terrible ideologies). They are small and powerless and they are no threat to Chicopee or our region. Keeping them in their tiny, condemned region seems okay with me. Liberate means just that: free regions from raiders and return them to their rightful owners. This is an invasion just for the hell of it and we believe it goes beyond the intended power of the Security Council.


agreed, this is someone flexing muscle for the hell of it, targeting a small unpopular group as a victim, its pathetic realy.

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Galiantus II
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Posts: 340
Founded: Jan 07, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Galiantus II » Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:36 pm

Mad Jack wrote:
Kahchi wrote:Wait, is this really the argument you're going to try to use here? It's rather hypocritical: this reminds me of that time when the delegate of NAZI EUROPE tried to use a liberation proposal to make an old, storied, and famous region vulnerable to raids.

A former delegate of NAZI EUROPE is responsible for popularizing this tactic in the first place. What goes around comes around.

Viva la Haven!

I love you.

As for not posting it here first, this was drafted with input from every GCR delegate. It didn't need to be posted here first.


Oh, so you ADMIT to conspiring against Nazi Europe! Glad you could all come to a 'consensus' on this, because it doesn't change the fact that you are doing this purely out of a dislike of a particular group of players who happen to be friendly with the region (GGR) who likes advertising on your RMBs. Fine. So just because you are among the most powerful players in the game means it is okay to bully someone, essentially, just because you can. This doesn't just go for you, this goes for 1) the auther, 2) every delegate who approved it, and 3) everyone who votes for it, to the magnitude of however many votes they have.
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Xarxis
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Founded: Nov 15, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Xarxis » Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:37 pm

inb4 every founderless region with over 100 members gets "Liberated" and invaded by GCR.
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Bundabunda
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Founded: Mar 14, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Bundabunda » Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:40 pm

Xarxis wrote:inb4 every founderless region with over 100 members gets "Liberated" and invaded by GCR.



Classic NS question: Source?
I speak for myself and myself only.

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Galiantus II
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Posts: 340
Founded: Jan 07, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Galiantus II » Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:42 pm

The Gregorach wrote:The hypocrites try again, I see.

Try this on for size. If we are stuck keeping our region secure, we can't go invade other regions. Let's say this succeeds, and y'all seize our region. I guarantee you that we will not only have our WA's freed for raiding, but we will do so with blood in our eye, seeking revenge on those who wronged us.

Yes. And not only that, but other players (like myself) will join in; not to further Nazism, not because we don't have an eye for evil views, but because we wish to defend the rights of a soveregn minority to exist independant of the rule of the majority.
The World Assembly shall be Utterly Destroyed by Galiantus!

Down With the World Assembly!

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Blu Mount
Secretary
 
Posts: 34
Founded: Feb 28, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Blu Mount » Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:42 pm

Look, I'm not a member of the "Nazi Europe" region, but, really? Is it necesary to "Liberate" a region with a different opinion? Geez, that's even more intolerant that nazis! (And I'm a national socialist)
In that case, we could start "liberating" another extremist regions such as communist ones

And c'mon, the World assembly is a joke, I don't know why I'm still a member of it
Last edited by Blu Mount on Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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