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[PASSED] Stopping Suicide Seeds

A carefully preserved record of the most notable World Assembly debates.

Should corporations be allowed to sterilize the seeds produced by the food crops of farmers?

Yes, that should be legal.
65
27%
No, that should be illegal.
130
54%
Sometimes.
31
13%
No opinion.
13
5%
 
Total votes : 239

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Christian Democrats
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[PASSED] Stopping Suicide Seeds

Postby Christian Democrats » Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:58 pm

Image

ImageImage

GENERAL ASSEMBLY RESOLUTION AT VOTE
Stopping Suicide Seeds
A resolution to increase the quality of the world's environment, at the expense of industry.

Category: Environmental | Industry Affected: All Businesses | Proposed by: Image Christian Democrats

The General Assembly,

Seeking to protect subsistence farmers and small farmers from multinational corporations (MNCs) that seek to maximize their profits at the expense of these individuals, thereby depriving them of their livelihoods and their ability to ensure dignified existences for themselves and their families,

Recognizing that MNCs, through genetic engineering, have developed technologies that try to make independent farmers dependent on the companies in order to maximize profit and to gain monopoly control over the agricultural industry,

Concerned by the possibility of widespread monopolization in the agricultural industry,

Identifying genetic use restriction technology (GURT) as a genetic modification technique that could be used by MNCs as a means to achieving the aforementioned ends,

Noting that this biotechnology produces what are known as terminator seeds or suicide seeds, which are seeds intentionally modified by the MNCs so that the seeds of their progeny are virtually useless and oftentimes unable to grow,

Realizing that the intent of this technology is to make seed saving obsolete and to make it necessary for farmers to buy seeds from the MNCs year after year,

Fearing that terminator genes inadvertently could escape into the general population of food crops, thereby resulting in decreased biodiversity, increased dependence on corporations, and increased world hunger due to the large number of intentionally sterilized seeds,

Aiming, therefore, to restrict GURT in order to protect small farmers from exploitation by biotechnology companies and to prevent genetic contamination of other crops or plants,

1. Defines the following terms for use in this resolution:

  1. Variety genetic use restriction technology (V-GURT): a genetic modification technique that renders the seeds of a plant sterile;
  2. Trait genetic use restriction technology (T-GURT): a genetic modification technique that leads to plants whose seeds are fertile; but those seeds must be treated with a special chemical (or chemicals), usually one that is produced only by a certain company, so that they will grow properly or so that the plants grown from them fully will express their genetic traits;
2. Requires that all member states ban or strictly regulate V-GURT and T-GURT;

3. Mandates that all companies, corporations, and other such entities that are engaged in GURT and in commerce within the jurisdiction of this Assembly disclose to the World Assembly Food and Drug Regulatory Agency (WAFDRA) all information regarding their activities related to GURT;

4. Bans government funding for any for-profit entity that is engaged in GURT or research of it subject to the provisions of this resolution and other active resolutions enacted by this Assembly;

5. Prohibits the transport across a national border, without preapproval from WAFDRA, of any plant or seed that has been modified using GURT subject to the provisions of this resolution and other active resolutions enacted by this Assembly; and

6. Calls upon member states, in their foreign policies (especially their trade policies) and in their laws regulating the biotechnology industry, to discourage V-GURT and T-GURT in other member states and in nonmember states.


Approvals: 108 (Feux, Althalius, The Democratic Republic of Pravosudiye, United Alab Emirates, Ohen, Great Adrianland, Redwingvksm, Mercearia, Ansario, Discoveria, Brick country, Woonsocket, The Red Tabby, Luke Todraruth, Lemurian Islands, Salutrea, Dysonian, New Meorn, Kaimore, Hicdarr, The Black Hat Guy, Gwrrrrr, Socialist Space Republic, Atlantica, Kazomal, Riojasia, TaQud, Akin Trade Federations, Nikhil, The Ripley Land of Wounder, CORN, Kidlantis, Edward Richtofen, Venaleria, Apricot, Johto and Kanto, Texacoe, United States of Grillonia, Kelvaros Prime, United Provinces of Atlantica, Nikolaos The Great, The Kingdom Of Griffins with Swords, ChiChi Empire, Casterly Rock and Lannisport, Claflin, Albensburg, Nava Siam, United Dependencies, The Hejts Territories, Anarcho-Lillehammer, Trevion, Hittanryan, Frattastan II, Emakera, Aphelion, The Lorians, Kritschboilek, Heavenly Sol, Bennetopia, A New Liberia, Yunara, Ruior, Al Quizya, Peldar, Mikeswill, Dancehutchopia, The Silence of Night, Dutchyland, Danitoria, Swilatian WA Office, Partirius, Republic of the North, The Utopian Wonderland of Trees, Macworld, Israeli Federation, Ventei, Old Maryland, Little Tralfamadore, Conoga, Bergnovinaia, Barbadas, High Aren, Falsea, Aethelia, Callumai, Altaslavia, The Feedom Allaince, 12088, Satonia, The Mutawakkilite Kingdom of Yemen, Greater Gravesend, Socialist Austrian Empire, Leanashe, Sebastania, Aerarch, Nofreedomland, Yummy armadillos, United Soviet Jason Republic, Region 4, Kavamkao, Haltari, Alsted, Liukangladesh, The un named, United Atheist States, Telnaior, Kennethtancw, Lamoni)
Last edited by Frisbeeteria on Thu May 16, 2013 9:20 pm, edited 23 times in total.
Leo Tolstoy wrote:Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it.
GA#160: Forced Marriages Ban Act (79%)
GA#175: Organ and Blood Donations Act (68%)^
SC#082: Repeal "Liberate Catholic" (80%)
GA#200: Foreign Marriage Recognition (54%)
GA#213: Privacy Protection Act (70%)
GA#231: Marital Rape Justice Act (81%)^
GA#233: Ban Profits on Workers' Deaths (80%)*
GA#249: Stopping Suicide Seeds (70%)^
GA#253: Repeal "Freedom in Medical Research" (76%)
GA#285: Assisted Suicide Act (70%)
GA#310: Disabled Voters Act (81%)
GA#373: Repeal "Convention on Execution" (54%)
GA#468: Prohibit Private Prisons (57%)

* denotes coauthorship
^ repealed resolution
#360: Electile Dysfunction
#452: Foetal Furore
#560: Bicameral Backlash
#570: Clerical Errors

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FreeWillToAll
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Postby FreeWillToAll » Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:04 pm

We support this resolution.
I would also support a bit weaker version where corporations can create such seeds if the government has deemed their product an environmental hazard.

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United Federation of Canada
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Postby United Federation of Canada » Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:33 pm

Never heard of V-GURT or T-GURT.

Could you provide the exact chemical makeup of these substances please?

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Araraukar
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Postby Araraukar » Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:15 pm

Why not add U-GURT, U standing for "unwanted"? :P
I'm very much against Monsato and what they're doing with with farmers of the poorer countries, but I've never seen any mention of this happening in Nationstates?

Is this big enough an issue that it needs international legislation to combat?
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Araraukar
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Postby Araraukar » Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:17 pm

United Federation of Canada wrote:Never heard of V-GURT or T-GURT.

Could you provide the exact chemical makeup of these substances please?

They're not chemicals, they're badly-made up abbreviations.
- Linda Äyrämäki, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk.

Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Araraukar wrote:
Blueflarst wrote:a cosmopolitan hammer
United Massachusetts wrote:Can we all call ourselves "cosmopolitan hammers"?
Us cosmopolitan hammers
Can teach some manners
Often sorely lacking
Hence us attacking
Silly GA spammers

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Sionis Prioratus
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Postby Sionis Prioratus » Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:21 pm

We are happy to give this our full support, and commend the delegation of Christian Democrats for this honorable enterprise.

Yours in progress,
Cathérine Victoire de Saint-Clair
Haute Ambassadrice for the WA for
✡ The Jewish Kingdom of Sionis Prioratus
Daughter of The Late King Adrian the First
In the Name of
Sa Majesté Impériale Dagobert VI de Saint-Clair
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Ossitania
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Postby Ossitania » Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:27 pm

Absolute 100% unconditional support from Ossitania.
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The Eternal Kawaii
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Postby The Eternal Kawaii » Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:42 pm

Araraukar wrote:Why not add U-GURT, U standing for "unwanted"? :P
I'm very much against Monsato and what they're doing with with farmers of the poorer countries, but I've never seen any mention of this happening in Nationstates?

Is this big enough an issue that it needs international legislation to combat?


The usual fears voiced by opponents of genetically modified agricultural plants are that the so-called "designer genes" could escape into wild populations and wreak havoc. Ironically, the "suicide seeds" this resolution seeks to ban are the industry's attempt to prevent that very thing.
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Postby Araraukar » Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:46 pm

The Eternal Kawaii wrote:The usual fears voiced by opponents of genetically modified agricultural plants are that the so-called "designer genes" could escape into wild populations and wreak havoc. Ironically, the "suicide seeds" this resolution seeks to ban are the industry's attempt to prevent that very thing.

Yes, I know. Yet there are ways to abuse that as well for corporate profits.
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Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Araraukar wrote:
Blueflarst wrote:a cosmopolitan hammer
United Massachusetts wrote:Can we all call ourselves "cosmopolitan hammers"?
Us cosmopolitan hammers
Can teach some manners
Often sorely lacking
Hence us attacking
Silly GA spammers

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Silar
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Postby Silar » Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:05 pm

The High Commonwealth of Silar would like to voice its support for this proposed resolution. It does, however, concur with concerns brought up about the use of so-called "suicide seeds" to allow for genetically modified crops to be used without fear of them spreading into native populations. Perhaps provisions ought to be considered to allow the practice while still providing protections against the abuse this proposal seeks to avert.

Yours,
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Permanent Observer of the High Commonwealth of Silar to the World Assembly
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Ossitania
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Postby Ossitania » Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:27 pm

The Eternal Kawaii wrote:
Araraukar wrote:Why not add U-GURT, U standing for "unwanted"? :P
I'm very much against Monsato and what they're doing with with farmers of the poorer countries, but I've never seen any mention of this happening in Nationstates?

Is this big enough an issue that it needs international legislation to combat?


The usual fears voiced by opponents of genetically modified agricultural plants are that the so-called "designer genes" could escape into wild populations and wreak havoc. Ironically, the "suicide seeds" this resolution seeks to ban are the industry's attempt to prevent that very thing.


Yes, but I would hope that a large proportion of the active ambassadors in this Assembly participating in the drafting of legislation are well-read enough to know that those fears are cockamamy and therefore we need not traffic in their nonsense. Anyone who protests this legislation on those grounds can simply be directed to a science textbook. The debate should be about whether or not the WA should just stand idly by while corporations literally profit from mass starvation.

And just before I was to make my remarks, we have our first peddler of myth on the scene. I'll keep this short and sweet; the idea of "genetic contamination" from GM crops is a myth. Now, let's move along to the real issues at hand.

EDIT:
United Federation of Canada wrote:Never heard of V-GURT or T-GURT.

Could you provide the exact chemical makeup of these substances please?


Their acronyms for types of genetic modification technology, not substances. You could at least read the proposal.

Araraukar wrote:I'm very much against Monsato and what they're doing with with farmers of the poorer countries, but I've never seen any mention of this happening in Nationstates?


OOC: NS =/= RL but it is still, for the most part, like RL. The same moral and ethical issues exist here. Unless you can think of a reason why this practice would not happen simply because the world we're talking about is NS rather than RL, then just about any phenomena that happen in RL can be assured to happen in NS.
Last edited by Ossitania on Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Wheeled States of Bifid
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Postby Wheeled States of Bifid » Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:33 pm

This looks like a good proposal on what could be considered a real problem.

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Postby Araraukar » Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:50 pm

Ossitania wrote:OOC: NS =/= RL but it is still, for the most part, like RL. The same moral and ethical issues exist here. Unless you can think of a reason why this practice would not happen simply because the world we're talking about is NS rather than RL, then just about any phenomena that happen in RL can be assured to happen in NS.

OOC: Many of the issues brought up recently seem to never have been issues (meaning, they weren't abused, or no-one else thought they were a problem) before they were brought up in a proposal. I can't remember anything in the game issues about any of this either. If there is such an issue and I've just managed to dodge it, I would appreciate TG'd proof (there's a spoiler thread for issues somewhere).

(Sorry the many edits, but I tried to make what I'm trying to say clearer. I should probably get some sleep now.)
Last edited by Araraukar on Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk.

Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Araraukar wrote:
Blueflarst wrote:a cosmopolitan hammer
United Massachusetts wrote:Can we all call ourselves "cosmopolitan hammers"?
Us cosmopolitan hammers
Can teach some manners
Often sorely lacking
Hence us attacking
Silly GA spammers

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Ossitania
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Postby Ossitania » Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:54 pm

Araraukar wrote:
Ossitania wrote:OOC: NS =/= RL but it is still, for the most part, like RL. The same moral and ethical issues exist here. Unless you can think of a reason why this practice would not happen simply because the world we're talking about is NS rather than RL, then just about any phenomena that happen in RL can be assured to happen in NS.

OOC: Many of the issues brought up recently seem to never have been issues (meaning, they weren't abused, or no-one else thought they were a problem) before they were brought up. I can't remember anything in the game issues about any of this either. If there is such an issue and I've just managed to dodge it, I would appreciate TG'd proof (there's a spoiler thread for issues somewhere).

OOC: No, guy, you're not getting this. Virtually any problem that exists in the RL world exists in some form in NS. Can you think of a reason why the nature of the NS world would stop some producers of GM crops from using the technologies this proposal seeks to ban? If not, then some producers of GM crops in the NS world use the technologies this proposal seeks to ban. The games capital-I Issues have absolutely shit-all to do with the WA.
Last edited by Ossitania on Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Guy in the Boat,
GA #146 (Co-authored)
GA #177 (Co-authored)
GA #183(Authored)
GA #198 (Co-authored)
GA #202 (Authored)
GA #206 (Authored)
GA #212 (Co-authored)
GA #238 (Authored)
GA #240 (Authored)

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Araraukar
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Postby Araraukar » Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:12 pm

Ossitania wrote:
Araraukar wrote:OOC: Many of the issues brought up recently seem to never have been issues (meaning, they weren't abused, or no-one else thought they were a problem) before they were brought up. I can't remember anything in the game issues about any of this either. If there is such an issue and I've just managed to dodge it, I would appreciate TG'd proof (there's a spoiler thread for issues somewhere).

OOC: No, guy, you're not getting this. Virtually any problem that exists in the RL world exists in some form in NS. Can you think of a reason why the nature of the NS world would stop some producers of GM crops from using the technologies this proposal seeks to ban? If not, then some producers of GM crops in the NS world use the technologies this proposal seeks to ban. The games capital-I Issues have absolutely shit-all to do with the WA.

OOC: If we're getting personal, I'm female, tyvm. I also thought to hide this all in a spoiler before we get told off by a mod for spamming this with OOC (we still might, at that).

In RL you're usually not supposed to make a law to correct a problem until you have a problem. I understand in NS this requirement is usually waved off, but I was merely pointing out that I'd seen nothing even hinting to this issue (Monsato-type corporate greed) ingame before - in RP, game issues or WA debates, so I didn't consider it to be an issue that needed correcting. None of this in any way prevents anyone from making, supporting or opposing this proposal for IC or other reasons. It was just my personal OOC opinion, not a reason to get angry.
- Linda Äyrämäki, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk.

Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Araraukar wrote:
Blueflarst wrote:a cosmopolitan hammer
United Massachusetts wrote:Can we all call ourselves "cosmopolitan hammers"?
Us cosmopolitan hammers
Can teach some manners
Often sorely lacking
Hence us attacking
Silly GA spammers

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Ossitania
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Postby Ossitania » Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:29 pm

Araraukar wrote:OOC: If we're getting personal, I'm female, tyvm.


I'm from a country where the terms "guy" and "lad" are used for both genders, this makes no difference to me.

Araraukar wrote:I also thought to hide this all in a spoiler before we get told off by a mod for spamming this with OOC (we still might, at that).


It's an OOC discussion of the nature of NS that is relevant to your feelings on the proposal, so it's unlikely to be considered spamming.

Araraukar wrote:In RL you're usually not supposed to make a law to correct a problem until you have a problem. I understand in NS this requirement is usually waved off, but I was merely pointing out that I'd seen nothing even hinting to this issue (Monsato-type corporate greed) ingame before - in RP, game issues or WA debates, so I didn't consider it to be an issue that needed correcting.


The requirement is not waived at all. You always need a problem before you make a law. In fact, a leisurely swim through the years of threads in this very forum will provide you with plenty of examples of proposals being shot down for attempting to tackle non-existent problems. Your mistake here is assuming that an issue needs to be hinted at in RP, game issues or WA debates before it can exist in NS. If that was actually the case, there's a lot of WA resolutions that never would have existed, since the issues they examined were first raised when WA proposals on those issues were put forward (Promotion of Bee-keeping, Against Conflict Minerals or my own Recognising Achievements Act, for example). Within the parameters of common sense, any issue that has ever been worthy of RL legislation exists in NS. Excepting genuinely stupid proposals on non-issues, the debate is not whether or not the issue is an issue in the world of NS, but whether it is an issue worthy of international legislation.

Araraukar wrote:None of this in any way prevents anyone from making, supporting or opposing this proposal for IC or other reasons. It was just my personal OOC opinion, not a reason to get angry.


I wasn't getting angry, I was getting exasperated by your misunderstanding of a simple idea. You are naturally entitled to your opinion, but I'm equally entitled to challenge it and your opinion is so obviously inconsistent with the way that the WA actually works that I became frustrated by your failure to understand why when I explained it to you.
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Postby Christian Democrats » Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:33 pm

The Eternal Kawaii wrote:The usual fears voiced by opponents of genetically modified agricultural plants are that the so-called "designer genes" could escape into wild populations and wreak havoc. Ironically, the "suicide seeds" this resolution seeks to ban are the industry's attempt to prevent that very thing.

The terminator gene is not foolproof, and it could escape into the general population. One of the worst things that could happen is the widespread sterilization of farmers' seeds. We already have enough hunger as it is.

Of course, you completely ignore the main purpose of this technology.

Image

To make farmers completely dependent on corporations. To make independent farming impossible.

The main goal of such technology would be monopolization of the agricultural industry.

T-GURT is not as bad because it seeks to protect patents instead of making seeds totally useless.
Leo Tolstoy wrote:Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it.
GA#160: Forced Marriages Ban Act (79%)
GA#175: Organ and Blood Donations Act (68%)^
SC#082: Repeal "Liberate Catholic" (80%)
GA#200: Foreign Marriage Recognition (54%)
GA#213: Privacy Protection Act (70%)
GA#231: Marital Rape Justice Act (81%)^
GA#233: Ban Profits on Workers' Deaths (80%)*
GA#249: Stopping Suicide Seeds (70%)^
GA#253: Repeal "Freedom in Medical Research" (76%)
GA#285: Assisted Suicide Act (70%)
GA#310: Disabled Voters Act (81%)
GA#373: Repeal "Convention on Execution" (54%)
GA#468: Prohibit Private Prisons (57%)

* denotes coauthorship
^ repealed resolution
#360: Electile Dysfunction
#452: Foetal Furore
#560: Bicameral Backlash
#570: Clerical Errors

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Sardakhar
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Postby Sardakhar » Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:02 am

We fully support this proposal. It's time for those vile corporations to stop dominating the farmers who have worked hard everyday. We have instructed the office of the government of WA-voting East Sardakhar to vote FOR this proposal, if it ever comes to vote.

Jali Mortey
Sardakhar Minister of Foreign Affairs

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Hawalius
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Founded: Dec 22, 2012
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Hawalius » Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:29 am

Seeds of GMO crops are sterile or dependent on a chemical to limit the chance of cross-breeding and contamination of natural varieties. Hawalius is opposed to regulations that could lead to accidental introduction of non-sterile GMO seed. As to the pseudo-scientific objections, cross-breeding is already happening. Pollen moves by wind or insects and organic farmers sometimes have to sell their organic crops as conventional when too much GMO material is detected in their harvest. They also can't save their seeds that year and have to get fresh, non-GMO seed. In the US, the FDA is even considering an insurance program for organic farmers specifically for GMO contamination.

We are sorry to hear that subsistence farmers in other countries are being manipulated by corporate greed, but if anything, there should be a proposal to mandate sterilization of GMO seed.
Last edited by Hawalius on Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:38 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Ossitania
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Postby Ossitania » Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:33 am

Hawalius wrote:Seeds of GMO crops are sterile or dependent on a chemical to limit the chance of cross-breeding and contamination of natural varieties. Hawalius is opposed to regulations that could lead to accidental introduction of non-sterile GMO seed.

We are sorry to hear that subsistence farmers in other countries are being manipulated by corporate greed, but we do not see regulating corporations as a matter for the WA.


The hilarious thing being that the only genes from GM crops that really present a worry should they escape into other populations are the ones that this resolution prohibits. Competition between genes will sort out others, but the genes banned by this resolution would actually kill off genetic lines and stop that from happening.

Incidentally, all the other corporate regulation already on the books probably means you're wrong about regulating corporations not being a WA matter.
Last edited by Ossitania on Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:37 am, edited 2 times in total.
Guy in the Boat,
GA #146 (Co-authored)
GA #177 (Co-authored)
GA #183(Authored)
GA #198 (Co-authored)
GA #202 (Authored)
GA #206 (Authored)
GA #212 (Co-authored)
GA #238 (Authored)
GA #240 (Authored)

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Hawalius
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Postby Hawalius » Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:40 am

Hawalius is very worried about Bt toxin genes spreading. The safety of Bt toxin in food has not been adequately established.
Last edited by Hawalius on Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Ossitania
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Founded: Feb 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Ossitania » Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:35 am

Hawalius wrote:Hawalius is very worried about Bt toxin genes spreading. The safety of Bt toxin in food has not been adequately established.


Yes, it has.
Guy in the Boat,
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Kanadan
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 6
Founded: Oct 17, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Kanadan » Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:25 pm

Kanadan supports this act on the ground to protect the freedom and rights of farmers from corporate monopoly.

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Glen-Rhodes
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9023
Founded: Jun 25, 2008
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Glen-Rhodes » Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:32 pm

This is something our delegation has been interested in pursuing for a while. Genetic use restriction technology is unethical and has harmed agricultural economies immensely. The interests of agribusiness must serve the public welfare, not drive up the costs of farming. We are discouraged that this proposal does not ban the more vile of GURT practices. T-GURT ought to be banned outright, as it serves no purpose other than to extract money from farmers.

V-GURT seeds can have positive benefits for biodiversity, so the proposal should not completely ban them. It should encourage the study of V-GURT seeds, and ensure proper oversight exists so that if the use of these seeds, in certain situations, threaten biodiversity, they are banned. But it is backwards, in our opinion, to ban V-GURT seeds and only encourage member states to ban T-GURT seeds.

Additionally, there are numerous things within my delegation's draft that we would like to see in any regulation of GURT seeds. This is includes promoting scientific studies, and providing grants for biodiversity studies within agriculture. Hopefully the authoring delegation will consider utilizing our draft in improving this one.

- Dr. B. Castro

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Araraukar
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14081
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:04 pm

Ossitania wrote:I'm from a country where the terms "guy" and "lad" are used for both genders, this makes no difference to me.

And in my native language there are no gendered pronouns, so I'll be thinking of us both as genderless beings, if that's ok. :P

Ossitania wrote:It's an OOC discussion of the nature of NS that is relevant to your feelings on the proposal

I think we have a misunderstanding here somewhere. My OOC feelings on the nature of WA debates have nothing to do with my IC ideas of this proposal. OOCly I think most of WA's issues are silly and unnecessary, but that hasn't stopped me arguing for or against them, ICly. In this particular case I'm for the proposal's intent, merely asking if it's needed. As I stated in my first comment on it.

Ossitania wrote:In fact, a leisurely swim through the years of threads in this very forum will provide you with plenty of examples of proposals being shot down for attempting to tackle non-existent problems.

You don't even need to go back years. 1st or 2nd page right now should have a few of them. The inherited guilt thread for example.

Ossitania wrote:Your mistake here is assuming that an issue needs to be hinted at in RP, game issues or WA debates before it can exist in NS.

I never assumed that. I just stated that as a reasoning, when you asked for a reasoning.

Ossitania wrote:but whether it is an issue worthy of international legislation.

...which is exactly what I asked. Why a personal attack instead of a "yes, I feel it is so"? That way we could've agreed we had different views on this one and then gone on to discuss the proposal itself.

Ossitania wrote:I wasn't getting angry, I was getting exasperated by your misunderstanding of a simple idea.

Having a different opinion is hardly misunderstanding it. If you feel something is an international issue, when I don't (regardless of whether that applies here), then we're free to hold opposing opinions on it. My perceiving you as angry was your detailed attack on my opinion, singling me out for merely asking if this was really needed. You feel strongly about this issue, I get it already. Now can we stop arguing about opinional validity and get on with the proposal at hand?
- Linda Äyrämäki, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk.

Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Araraukar wrote:
Blueflarst wrote:a cosmopolitan hammer
United Massachusetts wrote:Can we all call ourselves "cosmopolitan hammers"?
Us cosmopolitan hammers
Can teach some manners
Often sorely lacking
Hence us attacking
Silly GA spammers

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