[PASSED] Repeal "Liberate Nationalist Union"

[Proletaurus]

Yes. Do it. People is currently voting down our beautiful Native Landscape at Nationalist Union, doing that against their better wisdom.

I can lobby for you on this.

WIN-WIN!

[Cerian Quilor]

No, he really didn't. Antifa is a collection of self-important and sanctimonious blowhards who act like they're doing something truly meaningful. They're not.

What is this, International Generalisation Day?

The entire purpose of Antifa, and hell, the santimonious claim they are honoring those who fought RL fascism in their WFE, is proof of the sanctimoniousness of the organization as a whole. And if they're not all blowhards, then maybe they should ensure that their spokespeople aren't blowhards. By going around, acting holier-than-thou and attacking Nazi/Fascist regions with the seriousness they do, and then arguing with the arguement tactics we see here on the forums, they display sanctimonius behavior.

Now, I'm not that much more fond of the way the Nazi and Fascist regions go around doing things, not just because of their ideologies, but also their tactics. Which, here on the forums and in the game itself, are basically identifical to those of Antifa. Right down to the largely incoherent arguement tactics. No, not every member of both groups is incoherent, as you yourself prove, but far as I can tell, you are the exception. If you aren't, maybe some of these coherent members of Antifa could come around and clarify their faction's position?

No, I don't really know what every member of Antifa is like. But I can only go on the actions of the organizaton as a mechanism to judge its members.

[Bundabunda]

yeah, and as you very well know by the theft of this region by unscrupulous means and by not taking it legitimately and having to liberate it to get it. once the founder is displaced or ceases to exist you can kick everyone out and refound it claiming youre the natives.

ill be writing a liberation as soon as this passes so that it make be placed back into real nationalist hands.

It's really a wonder how the Delegate of the biggest fascist region in the game can be so misinformed on how the game works.

Liberations strike down Delegate imposed barriers, not hand over the founder password.

Why not try The Nationalist Union instead? I hear that one's not getting enough attention.

What the hell? I'll personally lobby alongside Prolesky for you if and when you decide to write a resolution.

[Proletaurus]

Thanks for your support Comrade Bundabunda. Two 'ANTIFA-Blowhards' managed just do permanent strategic-level changes to possible horizons of future in hellhole of Hitler Youth.

Delegate of The GGR should write some sort of draft for Hitler Youth too. Still, It is impossible found region which already exists. No arguments can deny that if game mechanics of NationStates remain unchanged.

Either Infant Moral preachers or 'Free Speech' and 'Liberty' crusader besserwissers' Cries doesn't change that what we see when reading various RMBs of Nazi Hellholes. Only option here is to try to continuously put these RMBs Out-of-Order... and keep them that way.

This is also case with Nationalist Union. Period.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

yeah, and as you very well know by the theft of this region by unscrupulous means and by not taking it legitimately and having to liberate it to get it. once the founder is displaced or ceases to exist you can kick everyone out and refound it claiming youre the natives.

ill be writing a liberation as soon as this passes so that it make be placed back into real nationalist hands.

If it's not too presumptuous, may I ask what on Earth you think is going on here?

What is this, International Generalisation Day?

The entire purpose of Antifa, and hell, the santimonious claim they are honoring those who fought RL fascism in their WFE, is proof of the sanctimoniousness of the organization as a whole.

No, it isn't, it's proof that you disagree with the message of its commander.

And if they're not all blowhards, then maybe they should ensure that their spokespeople aren't blowhards.

How charming. I find Prolesky to be very agreeable, personally.

By going around, acting holier-than-thou and attacking Nazi/Fascist regions with the seriousness they do,

That's the point of their existence...to attack Nazi and fascist regions...

and then arguing with the arguement tactics we see here on the forums, they display sanctimonius behavior.

What are the "arguement tactics" that we see here?

Now, I'm not that much more fond of the way the Nazi and Fascist regions go around doing things, not just because of their ideologies, but also their tactics. Which, here on the forums and in the game itself, are basically identifical to those of Antifa. Right down to the largely incoherent arguement tactics.

You're putting Prolesky's and Bundabunda's argument tactics on the same level as NatSoz's?

No, not every member of both groups is incoherent, as you yourself prove, but far as I can tell, you are the exception.

I'm not in Antifa these days.

If you aren't, maybe some of these coherent members of Antifa could come around and clarify their faction's position?

Antifa isn't a single military thing in the same way as the Red Fleet is, so it doesn't really qualify as a "faction". I'd question what's wrong with comrade Proletaurus' argument against this anyway.

No, I don't really know what every member of Antifa is like. But I can only go on the actions of the organizaton as a mechanism to judge its members.

Which is a stupid way of judging people.

[Cerian Quilor]

Judging people based on their actions is stupid? What am I supposed to do, read their thoughts?

And if you read the RMBs of say...Catholic, or the original region of reunited muslim states, or modern RORMS, or some communist regions, your read all kinds of shit too. Nazis should have every right to free speech IRL and do in many countries (and should in more), and there's no issue with them exercising that right here

As long as your organization proclaims that it is honoring those who fought RL fascism in your WFE, and act as though raiding a nazi region or a fascist region actually stops the people who go there from speaking about their views, hateful as they are, yes, then it is

I would fight to moderate injury (no, not the death. ) for the right of a Nazi or Fascist, or Rascist to be a Nazi or Fascist or talk about their ideologies. Which does not mean I'd support them at the ballot box, or not rise up if they somehow took over the government and started putting their program into place.

Now, since this is a game, I don't project my RL political views into how I play. And I don't act like capturing and refounding a region actually stops the people there from doing anything but having that specific region. The people of Hitler Youth, such as they are, can easily name a new region The Hitler Youth, or New Hitler Youth, or Hitler Youth II, or the Hitler Youth Organization, etc, etc, etc, etc. Or they could join regions like GGR or Nazi Europe, which are more secure. Your raids are raids, and you can be proud of your successes, and you have every right to choose your targets by whatever metric you choose, and do with said captures whatever you want, including aggresively refound them (something I support), but don't act like its some grand moral crusade against the evils of Fascism and Nazism. You really want to fight Fascism? Go to Russia and help the opposition defeat Putin.

[Bundabunda]

Thanks for your support Comrade Bundabunda. Two 'ANTIFA-Blowhards' managed just do permanent strategic-level changes to possible horizons of future in hellhole of Hitler Youth.

I can't lie. Seeing Hitler Youth refounded today gave me a smile on my face.

Delegate of The GGR should write some sort of draft for Hitler Youth too.

Agreed! This Antifa blowhard will personally telegram every notable delegate in support of said proposal!

Still, It is impossible found region which already exists. No arguments can deny that if game mechanics of NationStates remain unchanged.

Let 'em have their fun. After all, if they need to "conquer mit zhe leather" (by the way, learn some German, it's mit, not vith) regions we could care less about, who's it hurting?
I can see the GGR's top man hurting over this one region so bad. It really does remind me of the Sopranos: a once great family worn down to a tiny nub.

Either Infant Moral preachers or 'Free Speech' and 'Liberty' crusader besserwissers'

Well, friend, I think the only truthful part on the side of those that want this repealed is the "besserwissers" part.

Cries doesn't change that what we see when reading various RMBs of Nazi Hellholes.

Cries really won't change anything that's done by Antifa. It's better for it, actually, lest we're not mindless griefers.

Only option here is to try to continuously put these RMBs Out-of-Order... and keep them that way.

Precisely.

This is also case with Nationalist Union. Period.

This is such an open and close case that it actually doesn't need 4 pages of arguing back and fourth to make a choice.
You either want the ability of the Delegate of Nationalist Union (a position which doesn't exist, mind you) to have powers, or you don't. The liberation is hilarious in an ironic way, but do you people really want to live in a world without humor?

[Proletaurus]

OK Comrades. Maybe it's now time to begin to end this topic. We will lose our shiny and sunny Native Landscape this time, But I'm pretty sure there will be plenty of similar drafts and resolutions in Future.

My warm personal thanks goes to Fellow Anti-Fascists who made translations from 'Prolfinglish' to english and especially to magnificent Genesis Defense Project's comrade Galdus who took credits of succesful Foundation of Nationalist Union, giving good, cultivated and experienced example to follow how things should be handled when putting NaFu cesspits down.

¡No pasarán!

[The Kuomintang]

bla, bla, bla, jadda, jadda, jadda

Whatever you say, "comrade". Eradicate "ebil fascism" from the Interwebs!

A word of advice for you and other e-warriors: read up on nationalism and patriotism. Although they are key components of most authoritarian ideologies (and thus mostly appeal to folks following these rhetorics), not all nationalists and patriots are fascists or right-wing authoritarians. Ever heard of National-Anarchism or National-Communism? Being proud of the country you contribute to and the achievements of your fellow countrymen of past and present isn't necessarily dependent on a specific ideology. It's like being proud of a fine house you or your ancestors built - something you want to preserve, defend from evildoers and improve upon, regardless of gender, race, religion or political orientation.

Also, tell your fellow ideologues to quit sending me threats of invasions and raids. Not only are these futile and idle wastes of breath, but this also makes me wonder who the real fascist demagogues are.

[Bundabunda]

Also, tell your fellow ideologues to quit sending me threats of invasions and raids. Not only are these futile and idle wastes of breath, but this also makes me wonder who the real fascist demagogues are.

I laughed at this one.
Futile? Didn't you get two regions taken from under your nose?
Me, NS and Prolesky are busy writing a resolution to re-liberate this region. Have some respect for the GGR's Delegate, we're doing honest work here.

[Gullud]

This is a sad day for the Security Council. We have less than an hour to go on this proposal and I am finding a proposal where a region is invaded and we liberate. Now, we are repealing the liberation because the SC lacks the testicles/ovaries to stand up to the invading party. Is this how we should act? I would hope not and my hope for 2013 is that every WA nation received a big helping of courage for their nation's winter (or Summer if you are in the Southern Hemisphere) holiday.

Ema Planta
Ambassador,

Gullud and Democratic Socialist Alliance

[The Kuomintang]

Also, tell your fellow ideologues to quit sending me threats of invasions and raids. Not only are these futile and idle wastes of breath, but this also makes me wonder who the real fascist demagogues are.

I laughed at this one.
Futile? Didn't you get two regions taken from under your nose?
Me, NS and Prolesky are busy writing a resolution to re-liberate this region. Have some respect for the GGR's Delegate, we're doing honest work here.

I only took part in the defense of our second region (The Nationalist Union), which was lost because Los Sandinistas had been stalking the region for nights on end (guess that's no problem for an unemployed welfare recipient) and there were only two defenders who were time zones apart and, as a result, missed the perfect timing for refounding. It was never a case of a "good, cultivated and experienced example" for either region, as Proletaurus claims. Also, unlike the founders of the former regions, I do not allow WA endorsements among residents, have restricted delegate access to the regional administration and won't leave the region or game.

Also, despite being the current legitimate representative of these three regions, I have nothing to do with these renewed efforts to recover the Nationalist Union and only found out about this resolution when I came back from a week of vacation a few hours ago and came across threats in my message box. Even if the region is recovered (which I doubt) I will remain in my current region (I might send a puppet over or something), but applaud the efforts of other natives and sympathetic nations to get back in there and kick the illegitimate occupiers out.

[Bundabunda]

Who knows, you can always make a go of reclaiming Nationalist Union once this is repealed.
I'll cheer from the sidelines myself though.

You know nothing of the founder of TNU and you broadly generalize. But what else is new with you and your ilk, right?

[Defendingg]

Repeal "Liberate Nationalist Union" was passed 6,606 votes to 3,857.

This is the Defendingg national news service reporting live from the capital city: As the news story broke, this morning, spontaneous demonstrations rang out throughout the city and the rest of the nation. The Government quickly declared a national holiday, and chants against nazi's and their "free speech" supporters were instantly heard around the populace. As the people were busy celebrating the great, godly, and completely perfect ANTIFA activities, another Nazi "free speech" supporting family was hauled away to a concentration camp, which brought even a more jubilant attitude from those in attendance.

[Feux]

* Pokes head into his thread.

Well, that was an interesting vote. Left me on the tip of my seat most of the time.

Votes For: 6,606 (63%)
Votes Against: 3,857 (37%)

Implemented: Fri Dec 28 2012

[The Kuomintang]

Who knows, you can always make a go of reclaiming Nationalist Union once this is repealed.
I'll cheer from the sidelines myself though.

You know nothing of the founder of TNU and you broadly generalize. But what else is new with you and your ilk, right?

Yeah, I generalize, but only because the only extreme leftists I personally know are crust punks (or whatever their unwashed subculture is called) who did nothing but laying around the office building they squatted, smoking weed, drinking beer and supplementing their meager welfare checks with bicycle theft, burglary and small-time drug trade. And thus far, the hundreds of other leftists I've stood face to face with during protests and demonstrations have only reinforced that image.

[Bundabunda]

Oh look, it passed.
I wonder if the "Antifa bullies" learned whatever lesson it is that the proponents/opponents cooked up in their minds. Silly liberation, silly repeal.

Defendingg wrote:
As the people were busy celebrating the great, godly, and completely perfect ANTIFA activities, another Nazi "free speech" supporting family was hauled away to a concentration camp, which brought even a more jubilant attitude from those in attendance.

Exhibit A, ladies and gents. What most of the Security Council seems to not understand is that the only people from Antifa (Prolesky and myself) were nonchalant about it. But I'm glad that it achieved some iota of progress for you.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

I laughed at this one.
Futile? Didn't you get two regions taken from under your nose?
Me, NS and Prolesky are busy writing a resolution to re-liberate this region. Have some respect for the GGR's Delegate, we're doing honest work here.

I only took part in the defense of our second region (The Nationalist Union), which was lost because Los Sandinistas had been stalking the region for nights on end (guess that's no problem for an unemployed welfare recipient)

Charming. I didn't "stalk the region for nights on end", I added it to my dossier, checked it every evening about a minute before its update time and then focused on it when it went empty.

Neither time-consuming nor difficult.

and there were only two defenders who were time zones apart and, as a result, missed the perfect timing for refounding.

At which point the lesson should have been "Don't refound if you can't be on when it CTEs".

It was never a case of a "good, cultivated and experienced example" for either region, as Proletaurus claims. Also, unlike the founders of the former regions, I do not allow WA endorsements among residents, have restricted delegate access to the regional administration and won't leave the region or game.

Those last two are what Great Tezdrian did when he founded TNU after it was raided by UNAF first time round.

Didn't help in the long run.

Also, despite being the current legitimate representative of these three regions,

Except you're not, you're the legitimate representative of one, as it's the only one you control.

I have nothing to do with these renewed efforts to recover the Nationalist Union and only found out about this resolution when I came back from a week of vacation a few hours ago and came across threats in my message box. Even if the region is recovered (which I doubt) I will remain in my current region (I might send a puppet over or something), but applaud the efforts of other natives and sympathetic nations to get back in there and kick the illegitimate occupiers out.

They're not "illegitimate occupiers". Legitimacy in NS is decided by who has the most force and who's the Founder.

Good luck with recovering it, though - you'd need it.

---

Ah, it was passed. Well done, Feux.

[Feux]

Ah, it was passed. Well done, Feux.

Thank you.

[Wesfolksland]

Down with Antifa.

[Communist Eraser]

They're not "illegitimate occupiers". Legitimacy in NS is decided by who has the most force and who's the Founder.

Good luck with recovering it, though - you'd need it.

---

Never say that, there is *always* someone who'll play the game longer than game, still here to take it when you quit the game.

On the other hand, unless you feel you can be this guy: http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=28664 <- Hawked 9+ years ago and still holding it as a trophy.

[Proletaurus]

They're not "illegitimate occupiers". Legitimacy in NS is decided by who has the most force and who's the Founder.

Good luck with recovering it, though - you'd need it.

---

Never say that, there is *always* someone who'll play the game longer than game, still here to take it when you quit the game.

On the other hand, unless you feel you can be this guy: http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=28664 <- Hawked 9+ years ago and still holding it as a trophy.

And this is why in-game organisations exists, Including Antifa. If some single player cannot keep some region(s), then some other will continue that. After 9+ Years there will be still Nationalist Union inhabitated by natives.

Of course if the World will be still on it's orbit, Internet and Browser game NationStates still exists and Max Barry and his moderation team are not turned Fascists themselves.

[Defendingg]

Oh look, it passed.
I wonder if the "Antifa bullies" learned whatever lesson it is that the proponents/opponents cooked up in their minds. Silly liberation, silly repeal.

Defendingg wrote:
As the people were busy celebrating the great, godly, and completely perfect ANTIFA activities, another Nazi "free speech" supporting family was hauled away to a concentration camp, which brought even a more jubilant attitude from those in attendance.

Exhibit A, ladies and gents. What most of the Security Council seems to not understand is that the only people from Antifa (Prolesky and myself) were nonchalant about it. But I'm glad that it achieved some iota of progress for you.

Not sure what you're getting at. My nation's government and the vast majority of the population (99.3%) support antifa with all available strength and despise the Nazi "free speech" supporters and believe that all nations supporting the liberation and subsequent lack of support for the repeal should be bombed into oblivion.

The remaining .7% of the population are being tortured in reeducation camps until they get their minds straightened out.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

Oh look, it passed.
I wonder if the "Antifa bullies" learned whatever lesson it is that the proponents/opponents cooked up in their minds. Silly liberation, silly repeal.



Exhibit A, ladies and gents. What most of the Security Council seems to not understand is that the only people from Antifa (Prolesky and myself) were nonchalant about it. But I'm glad that it achieved some iota of progress for you.

Not sure what you're getting at. My nation's government and the vast majority of the population (99.3%) support antifa with all available strength and despise the Nazi "free speech" supporters and believe that all nations supporting the liberation and subsequent lack of support for the repeal should be bombed into oblivion.

The remaining .7% of the population are being tortured in reeducation camps until they get their minds straightened out.

Is posting something that's a) hyperbolic and b) divorced from reality something you're looking at doing as a full-time job or just a hobby?

[Defendingg]

Not sure what you're getting at. My nation's government and the vast majority of the population (99.3%) support antifa with all available strength and despise the Nazi "free speech" supporters and believe that all nations supporting the liberation and subsequent lack of support for the repeal should be bombed into oblivion.

The remaining .7% of the population are being tortured in reeducation camps until they get their minds straightened out.

Is posting something that's a) hyperbolic and b) divorced from reality something you're looking at doing as a full-time job or just a hobby?

You may see it that way but my nation does not. This is our hill to die on.

And I fail to see how it is divorced from reality. If you would like, our nation would gladly provide for a free tour of our prison and reduction camps to your ambassador.