PASSED: Repeal "Commend 10000 Islands"

[Daynor]

waste the time of WA members with votes on issues that have been approved or rejected multiple times should be condemned themselves.

It was approved once. ONCE. Good try though.

I'm glad your one of the good guys.

[Ananke]

I think Grub was talking about the multiple repeals which have been submitted, since the condemnation was first voted on. I counted 6-7 some months ago, but am sure I've missed some.

[Daynor]

That applies for every single SC resolution, and several GA ones as well.

Not to mention, only a couple have been serious attempts (a lot of effort put into them).

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

More than one of these repeal efforts nearly reached quorum, and one actually did, before falling back after update. And that was just weeks after the original passed. We had a repeal thread here that went on for over 150 posts. The manic obsession with repealing this commendation is almost as bad as Condemn NAZI EUROPE.

I hate to admit it, but Grub has a point. The Security Council is a broken record. A broken record of a really bad song. "Tiptoe through the Tulips" or "Achy Breaky Heart," or some shit like that.

[Todd McCloud]

I think I said this the last time this was passed, so I'll say it again:

The fact that 10,000 islands (or Island) has been commended, but not other regions that participate in the defender vs raider wars (from BOTH sides of the contest) is both deplorable and disappointing. So just because they are a big and functional defending alliance merits a commendation, and not other big, functional defending alliances? What about raiding alliances, which have to work just as hard (perhaps even harder) than defending alliances, especially with the abuse of the Liberation proposals?

I would even bring into question their 1000 'successful defenses'. Do the math. NS was formed around early 2003 / late 2002 or so (around that time, I believe). Now my very early NS history is a bit sketchy, but if there were 1000 successful defenses, that means in roughly six years there was on average one successful defense per two days. I don't even know if there have been 1000 raids in the NS lifetime, to be honest. And, when one figures in the raiders have successes, let's just be very modest and say raiders are successful only 50% of the time (I believe it's around 70%, but let's be modest). That means one raid *per day*. Now I know for a fact raiders don't have big enough numbers, nor the time, to raid every day (at least when I raided, that is... that was about two years ago, and numbers are down from when I was around that area of the game).

But that is in material. I won't even go into the amount of TITO raids, for I don't know the exact number, but they are truly Macedonian-esque when they have a go at it (Georgia, anyone?). I'm really in the camp that believes if a defender army such as TITO is commended, other defender armies AND raider armies should be commended as well for being quite organized, successful, and perhaps even more moral than TITO, statistically speaking.

[New Dracora]

All part of the plan people.

You see the more time invader types spend on trying to bring down our commendation, the less time they spend invading regions - until eventually they'll be no invasions at all and our goals of total invader submission will have been accomplished.

MWAHAHAHAHAHA!!! *cue thunder and lightning*

[New Dracora]

*snip*

Then perhaps you guys should work more on drafting new commendation resolutions for these 'deserving' candidates and less time on time-wasting multi-repeals.

As for the number of our operations - we have a record... but you'll never get to see it unless you decide to become part of TITO.

Do you want to become part of TITO Todd?

[Krioval]

But that is in material. I won't even go into the amount of TITO raids, for I don't know the exact number, but they are truly Macedonian-esque when they have a go at it (Georgia, anyone?). I'm really in the camp that believes if a defender army such as TITO is commended, other defender armies AND raider armies should be commended as well for being quite organized, successful, and perhaps even more moral than TITO, statistically speaking.

Or, y'know, we could stop poking the sleeping tarrasque that is the WASC and leave its power for important things, rather than for glorified beauty contests and invader/defender pissing matches. Just sayin'.

[Mad Sheep Railgun]

glorified beauty contests and invader/defender pissing matches.

Er..um..that's sort of the whole purpose of the SC, innit?

[Daynor]

You see the more time invader types spend on trying to bring down our commendation, the less time they spend invading regions - until eventually they'll be no invasions at all and our goals of total invader submission will have been accomplished.

So Grand Central is a raiding region now?

Wow Drac, that brings the totall of raiding regions up to what, 6000?

I'm pretty sure, the way you determine a regions position on the R/D spectrum should not be how nice they are to TITO. It's almost laughable how immature you guys are, if someone doesn't agree with you on one issue you will through a fit until they go away, or you try to pull the old, EVERYONE HERE IS RAIDERS!!!!! NO ONE LISTEN!

[Ananke]

As as (10000) Islander I don't really mind the spelling mistakes and such. It was proposed by a non-native english speaker, but what makes the current one special to me, rather than a cleaned-up version, is the thought behind it. Firstaria proposed it after we helped avert an invasion of his region, so for that reason alone a lot of us like this version.

[New Dracora]

You see the more time invader types spend on trying to bring down our commendation, the less time they spend invading regions - until eventually they'll be no invasions at all and our goals of total invader submission will have been accomplished.

So Grand Central is a raiding region now?

Wow Drac, that brings the totall of raiding regions up to what, 6000?

I'm pretty sure, the way you determine a regions position on the R/D spectrum should not be how nice they are to TITO. It's almost laughable how immature you guys are, if someone doesn't agree with you on one issue you will through a fit until they go away, or you try to pull the old, EVERYONE HERE IS RAIDERS!!!!! NO ONE LISTEN!

Strawman much?

I didn't make any reference to the actual creator of this repeal and/or his motivations, rather the way these resolutions appear to attract invader types like flies thus actually preventing them from carrying out any invasions.

Plus... just look a that post you made. So full of anguish and bitterness... did the mean 'fender touch you inappropriately?

edit: speling fale :/

[Celtica and Neotopia]

While we agree with the sentiment that extra-regional alliances should not have a part in the recognition of a single region, we thoroughly disagree with the statement that "WA neutrality" is a "time honored tradition". In my opinion, we are not and should not be neutral towards those who restrict civil liberties or commit atrocities during war, for example. In the same way, we should be on the side of defenders and liberators rather than on those who would invade other regions for personal gain.

As they say back home: "the core's good but the skin's rotten."

-Dante Jackson
Neotopian Ambassador to the World assembly

[Grub]

Where is all of this hate coming from for the 10000 Islands? To answer some questions, there have been at least 7 or 8 *attempted* repeals of this commendation, which to me is crazy. This commendation was overwhelmingly voted upon originally. What's the point of these commendations/condemnations if they are just going to be struck down or challenged every week or so. It's a waste of my time and yours.

Next, for Todd McCloud, we still want your vote, but you originally voted for this commendation. What's changed? As for our 1,000+ missions, it's true. Save for the first 20 missions, we have the names of every region we have fought in and the dates. We have been doing this since 2003. Now, if your region was invaded and we came to help and then a a year later you were attacked again and we helped again, that would count as two missions. That 1,025+ number includes fighting in the same region on different occasions, so it isn't 1,025+ separate regions. On top of that, we only record the missions that are successful. If we don't succeed, then that total has not been included.

Anyway, this whole thing is a joke to me at this point. Commendations/Condemnations are so transitory that it's kind of pointless. This system is broken and needs to be fixed.

Grub

[Morlago]

The hate comes from Grand Central. To be honest, this seems like a revenge to me.

Is this because we suspended diplomatic relations with Grand Central, Aegara?

[Morlago]

You see the more time invader types spend on trying to bring down our commendation, the less time they spend invading regions - until eventually they'll be no invasions at all and our goals of total invader submission will have been accomplished.

So Grand Central is a raiding region now?

Wow Drac, that brings the totall of raiding regions up to what, 6000?

I'm pretty sure, the way you determine a regions position on the R/D spectrum should not be how nice they are to TITO. It's almost laughable how immature you guys are, if someone doesn't agree with you on one issue you will through a fit until they go away, or you try to pull the old, EVERYONE HERE IS RAIDERS!!!!! NO ONE LISTEN!

P.S. Since when did we say that GC was a raider region?

[Grub]

When we suspended diplomatic relations with Aegara's region a few months ago it was because they were allied with the Commonwealth, known invaders. Their WFE entry no longer mentions the Commonwealth, so I do not know if they are still affiliated with them any longer.

[Somenta]

I will not let WA disturbed the sovereign of 10K Islands even we are declared the foul mouthed nation of WA.....there's nothing wrong with being biased...We make choices not you!!!

[Celtica and Neotopia]

I will not let WA disturbed the sovereign of 10K Islands even we are declared the foul mouthed nation of WA.....there's nothing wrong with being biased...We make choices not you!!!

Ambassador Dante forms a few words with his lips towards to the interpreter sitting next to him. The interpreter holds out his hands, palms facing upwards, and shrugs.

I'm afraid you'll have to clarify. What about your monarch? Who said you were foul-mouthed? And you'll find it is the World Assembly that makes resolutions, not you. Although you're welcome to participate in the democratic process, of course.

[Ballotonia]

I would even bring into question their 1000 'successful defenses'. Do the math. NS was formed around early 2003 / late 2002 or so (around that time, I believe). Now my very early NS history is a bit sketchy, but if there were 1000 successful defenses, that means in roughly six years there was on average one successful defense per two days. I don't even know if there have been 1000 raids in the NS lifetime, to be honest. And, when one figures in the raiders have successes, let's just be very modest and say raiders are successful only 50% of the time (I believe it's around 70%, but let's be modest). That means one raid *per day*. Now I know for a fact raiders don't have big enough numbers, nor the time, to raid every day (at least when I raided, that is... that was about two years ago, and numbers are down from when I was around that area of the game).

Back in the heyday of the ADN, GLA, A.L.L., etc... there were numerous invader organizations. I recall there being 10-15 invasions per update back in those days, and almost all failed (then again, there might've been invasions which I never heard of and which succeeded, but generally invaders would proudly trumpet their achievements, so I'm thinking there weren't all that many that succeeded back then). Important element: fights kept going, there was no 'lockdown' option the way there is now.

Nations were capable of being counted multiple times per update, and so the same nations which might have failed one invasions would storm another region which hadn't updated yet. Or switch UN to another nation and try again with those nations. The sequence in which regions updated was set, and an update took many hours to complete. The time of update was very handy for both european players and US west-coast players staying up late, so there were lots and lots of active invaders and defenders.

Then in 2006 Influence came, and it all collapsed. What you see as 'invading/defense' these days is a very faint shadow of what it once was. Numbers seen today are completely incomparable to the way things were back then, and that's where your argument fails completely.

And, yes, any organization starting now would take an obscenely long time to get to 1000 defenses. 6 years wouldn't be enough...

Ballotonia

[Ananke]

What Ballotonia says is true, Todd. From when I started being active in mid 2003 and to around 2005 at least, we had many invasions every day. I remember few updates with less than 5 spotted invasions and often it was more. A normal invader force would have 8-15 people I'd say and you'd have multible invader regions active during an update, doing different invasions at the same time. Some of us spent 3 hours around update chasing invaders around from region to region. That was fun.

Feel free to ask any defender or invaders, who were active around then btw. They should be able to confirm the level of activity.

I'm actually surprised the number of defenses isn't higher, but the invader/defender play really has been in a slump since 2006.

Edit: Actually, if TITO had sent nations to all invasions we/they spotted and/or were aware of it'd be a lot more than 1000 defenses. Often defenses will get divided up between orgs though. E.g. TITO will take care of one, while FRA/ADN/whoever covers another, unless of course you need more people than one org can provide or it's close to update.

[Klaus Devestatorie]

No grub, I made sure they were chucked out because of their comments about our government in their regional senate.

In other news, this ones at vote. I consider Grand Central redeemed in my eyes

The interesting bit is that it will prove General Franks from DEN wrong, too. THERE IS HOPE YET, YOU FOOL!

[Ailos (Ancient)]

Im new to the WA so forgive me if my information is wrong, but the bill supporting the reappeling of this law states that it will give equality back to the other regions. Im a huge supporter of anything that supports civil and human rights, i dont nessacerily support laws that helps economy or political freedoms at he expense of human rights.

I have voted for reapelment, but will gladly withdraw and change my vote per more information on the subject

[Morlago]

@Ailos: Read the Commendation itself.

Aegara, we suspended diplomatic relations, and you use the WA to get us back. *sigh* Lame...

[Ananke]

Security council resolutions don't affect anything other than the region/nation being voted on. General Assembly resolutions are the ones dealing with laws regarding civil rights, political freedoms, the economy and such, Ailos.

Commendations and Condemnations (C&C) are given out to nations/regions to recognise something special about them. 10000 Islands were given the commendation because of our many years spent defending vulnerable regions from invaders and griefers.

The only way for C&C's to not show favour in some way would be to not use them at all.