[Defeated] Condemn Lazzarania

[South Zagora]

As far as I can see this is a resolution to condemn Lazzarania solely for shutting down a region which is pretty much just restated many different ways in the resolution. Before voting I beg you to look at Lazzarania's civil rights, political freedoms, and economy. I do feel bad for everybody who had to find a new region, but I find this to be too much of an act of vengeance. Personally I am disgusted that this ever reached quorum
-- Marcus Aurelius
Representative
Bonifatus Department of The Interior

I applaud you. This issue is nothing but vengeance. This issue should NEVER have even been brought up.

[Swith Witherward]

We see no reason to condemn Lazzarania, however Lazzarania's responses here give us reason to doubt that nation's true motives. The manifested attitude on the first page alone is deplorable and seems trifling in nature to us. While we will not vote to condemn Lazzarania for accusations that Brotherhood Steel has so eloquently pointed out as erroneous, Swith Witherward will not support Lazzarania. We thereby abstain from voting on this issue.

[The Great Destruction]

As far as I can see this is a resolution to condemn Lazzarania solely for shutting down a region which is pretty much just restated many different ways in the resolution. Before voting I beg you to look at Lazzarania's civil rights, political freedoms, and economy. I do feel bad for everybody who had to find a new region, but I find this to be too much of an act of vengeance. Personally I am disgusted that this ever reached quorum
-- Marcus Aurelius
Representative
Bonifatus Department of The Interior

What have I too be vengeful for? I seek justice, nothing more. And P.S. it takes a really courageous person to comment from a day old nation. Lazz, is that you?

[Brotherhood Steel]

Votes For: 1,208 (22%)

Votes Against: 4,353 (78%)

The votes speak for themselves. There was no point to this proposal.

[Lazzarania]

Votes For: 1,208 (22%)

Votes Against: 4,353 (78%)

The votes speak for themselves. There was no point to this proposal.

Hear, hear, Brotherhood Steel!

To Destruction: It matters not how old the nation is that is commenting; rather, the important thing is the truth of his/her words I give the Mods on NS full authority, if they wish, to report back on this thread that it isn't me.

It seems that you are having some difficulty accepting that you are so transparent that the vast majority see that this entire affair was wholly contrived and based on a personal grudge. I'm sorry, but you shall receive no apology from me for tossing you out on your ear from The Royal Alliance. It boils down to your poor judgment in writing what you did on the RMB and expecting I'd let you get away with it.

P.s. I regularly ban/ejected Nazis - are you going to structure "condemnation # 3" around that fact?

[The Great Destruction]

Cmon now, I was kidding about that part. At least you could learn to have some fun with this. You are winning after all. Oh and by the way your response to my tg was without class. You could have said nothing if you didn't respect the courtesy.

Also, you dont have to apologize. I have had an excellent career elsewhere.

[EFEC]

Condemnation is baseless, voted against.

[Lazzarania]

Cmon now, I was kidding about that part. At least you could learn to have some fun with this. You are winning after all. Oh and by the way your response to my tg was without class. You could have said nothing if you didn't respect the courtesy.

I find it singularly odd that you call for me to grab some humor, yet you can't see my humor?

You TG me acting "all official" and state a precise time frame in which you are going to "graciously" grant me a reprieve until you post again in this thread. Naturally, you can't see how humorous I find that, because you weren't to know that I consider every post you make as an "opportunity" for me. Along the way, you misspell "reprieve" (no offense, but your spelling isn't the best), so I give you a precise time in which you must learn to spell, stating that if you misspell one more time I shall be forced to ban you from my TGS. That was a joke, TGD. Laugh it up.

Yes, I'm ecstatic about your great career. Congratulations.

P.s. I assure you I'm having fun with this.

[The Great Destruction]

No. What I said was:

The Dirty Minded Greeks of The Great Destruction (New. 7 hours ago)
I will give you the courtesy of not adding anything to the argument that you cannot refute due to your ban. I will give until Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:59 AM as the repreive.

The time denoted the end of your ban. I felt it was an honourable concession but I guess you didn't feel the same way.

What you said was:

I will give you an "F" for spelling. You have a major problem in this area. It's "reprieve." I will give you until Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:59 AM to learn how to spell. One more spelling mistake will result in a permanent ban from my TGs.
Lazzarania

NationStates Star, and most controversial and obsessed over man in NS

Not that watered down version. Why can't you just let anything ever go. You could have said "I don't care" or something and I wouldn't have been inclined to call you out like this.

[Lazzarania]

No. What I said was:

The Dirty Minded Greeks of The Great Destruction (New. 7 hours ago)
I will give you the courtesy of not adding anything to the argument that you cannot refute due to your ban. I will give until Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:59 AM as the repreive.

The time denoted the end of your ban. I felt it was an honourable concession but I guess you didn't feel the same way.

What you said was:

I will give you an "F" for spelling. You have a major problem in this area. It's "reprieve." I will give you until Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:59 AM to learn how to spell. One more spelling mistake will result in a permanent ban from my TGs.
Lazzarania

NationStates Star, and most controversial and obsessed over man in NS

Not that watered down version. Why can't you just let anything ever go. You could have said "I don't care" or something and I wouldn't have been inclined to call you out like this.

Lol Why do I need to let it go? You need simply contact the ex-RA in Conservadom and they'll tell you I'm a big adherent of "full disclosure", and that is why I don't mind you posting my TG here at all.

[Wobbuffets]

This resolution is a waste of time and space.
If anyone is deserving of a condemnation, it is the author of this proposal.

Lazzarania has done nothing to warrant a condemnation. Wobbuffets has voted against this resolution.

[Sedgistan]

The Great Destruction - debate the proposal, not the TGs Lazzarania may or may not have been sending you.

[South Zagora]

This proposal still doesn't give an underlining purpose to eject him from the WA. How I read it, he declared war on a region and went to take it over. Nothing more. You don't see the UN ejecting nations just because they declared war on each other.

[Bonifatus]

As far as I can see this is a resolution to condemn Lazzarania solely for shutting down a region which is pretty much just restated many different ways in the resolution. Before voting I beg you to look at Lazzarania's civil rights, political freedoms, and economy. I do feel bad for everybody who had to find a new region, but I find this to be too much of an act of vengeance. Personally I am disgusted that this ever reached quorum
-- Marcus Aurelius
Representative
Bonifatus Department of The Interior

What have I too be vengeful for? I seek justice, nothing more. And P.S. it takes a really courageous person to comment from a day old nation. Lazz, is that you?

No we are a completely independent nation. Just one that can see the truth.

[Skyrim Diplomacy]

This proposal still doesn't give an underlining purpose to eject him from the WA. How I read it, he declared war on a region and went to take it over. Nothing more. You don't see the UN ejecting nations just because they declared war on each other.

The WA can't eject nations with Condemnation proposal.

[Caj]

It was his region. He was the founder. What's the issue with him ejecting people?

[The Great Destruction]

Yes. It is leagle for Lazz to eject nations. But forcing mass Exodus at the drop of a hat is definitely condemnable.

[Constaniana]

Alright, alright, hold on a minute. Now, FORMER ROYAL ALLIANCE MEMBER, I honestly have no problem with Lazz shutting down the region. If he simply didn't have the time to continue running it, who are we to complain? People can't spend all of their time involved in NS. I have trouble enough keeping up with the four RP's I'm actively involved in, due to my schedule in RL that has become increasingly busy. Running an entire region and constantly keeping invaders and trolls out must take a lot of time as well, so I can understand why Lazz didn't want that pressure. And he didn't want the Royal Alliance to become a founderless region, because then we would become a lot more susceptible to raiders which Lazz had previously been keeping out. So he politely told us that he was closing down the RA, suggested that we could go to 10,000 Islands, or wherever we please. This didn't result in a "mass genocide" that destroyed a close region forever, we've got most of the original members RIGHT HERE. So I will be voting against this outrageous condemnation.

[Delegate Vinage]

I, Vinage V. Grey-Anumia, will be voting NAY on this proposal after a 3/6 internal vote decided said action. We find the proposal itself to a a poorly written piece of work and, in all honesty, when people compare things in this game to Nazis, Genocide or anything in this vain we usually stop paying attention. The 'debate' here is a childish mess which only adds to our reasons to vote against. Finally, while sad in many cases, the destruction of NS, on-site, property and suppression of the RMB is permitted by NS rules. If this was the destruction of off-site property, it would be an all the more different story.

[Lazzarania]

Yes. It is leagle for Lazz to eject nations. But forcing mass Exodus at the drop of a hat is definitely condemnable.

Which is something I haven't done. I've been through this with you before. For your idea to have any validity, there would have to be a rule in place that states that regions must be kept open and Founders must spend their time over a lengthy period closing them down. You have zero right trying to dictate to the Founders in NS. A player can leave a region at the drop of a hat, and a Founder can decide to close his region any time he/she pleases.

Bottom line. None of your reasoning will ever make sense, because the whole proposal is based on personal grievances. It's like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

[Alvaradia]

The ''condemnation'' is merely based on the original poster's grievances with Lazzarania

Not so. The proposal is based on the continued occurances of maltreatment of many nations. I can attest to my own experiences and I do, which is why you may be mistaken here.

I think your attitude here speaks for itself. Lazzarania has a right to do with his region as he pleases. Your condemnation is not legitimate and seems vengeful. I stand by my point that you are just condemning Lazzarania due to personal issues between you and he.

I also find it telling that none of the former RA members are actually supporting your condemnation.

[The Foxfyre Islands]

Alright, alright, hold on a minute. Now, FORMER ROYAL ALLIANCE MEMBER, I honestly have no problem with Lazz shutting down the region. If he simply didn't have the time to continue running it, who are we to complain? People can't spend all of their time involved in NS. I have trouble enough keeping up with the four RP's I'm actively involved in, due to my schedule in RL that has become increasingly busy. Running an entire region and constantly keeping invaders and trolls out must take a lot of time as well, so I can understand why Lazz didn't want that pressure. And he didn't want the Royal Alliance to become a founderless region, because then we would become a lot more susceptible to raiders which Lazz had previously been keeping out. So he politely told us that he was closing down the RA, suggested that we could go to 10,000 Islands, or wherever we please. This didn't result in a "mass genocide" that destroyed a close region forever, we've got most of the original members RIGHT HERE. So I will be voting against this outrageous condemnation.

Well Said, and this is from a former member of the region. I honestly think enough is said right there.

[Bonifatus]

Alright, alright, hold on a minute. Now, FORMER ROYAL ALLIANCE MEMBER, I honestly have no problem with Lazz shutting down the region. If he simply didn't have the time to continue running it, who are we to complain? People can't spend all of their time involved in NS. I have trouble enough keeping up with the four RP's I'm actively involved in, due to my schedule in RL that has become increasingly busy. Running an entire region and constantly keeping invaders and trolls out must take a lot of time as well, so I can understand why Lazz didn't want that pressure. And he didn't want the Royal Alliance to become a founderless region, because then we would become a lot more susceptible to raiders which Lazz had previously been keeping out. So he politely told us that he was closing down the RA, suggested that we could go to 10,000 Islands, or wherever we please. This didn't result in a "mass genocide" that destroyed a close region forever, we've got most of the original members RIGHT HERE. So I will be voting against this outrageous condemnation.

This is clear evidence that this is a condemnation based solely on personal grievances. Even more reason to vote against this resolution.

[Liberiteria]

*sigh*

The Great Devastation never learns.

He brings a pack of unsubstantiated lies before the SC and is shown to be the buffoon he is yet again.

[The Great Destruction]

I love you too, Liberteria.

As for the arguments about certain actions being legal. Most Condemnations are for actions which are perfectly legal. i.e. invasions, etc.