[PASSED] Liberate Christmas

[Mahaj]

Especially as their President would rather 'take it as a trophy'. Direct quote from the #Osiris irc channel.

Nice job hotshot. Here, let me quote the whole thing for you.

14:42 Koth I'm saying this on behalf of myself as a raider, not as the anything of Asgard
14:43 Koth If it was up to me, I'd take it as a trophy
14:43 Koth But it isn't

Intentionally taking bits and pieces of unrelated information and using them out of context to make my region look bad. And you say Asgard is the one with the propaganda and lies?

DIsgusting.

Then you said that it wasn't about Christmas at all, despite mentioning Christmas specifically.

So yes, yes you are.

[Cromarty]

I probably wouldn't either... except that's not what Asgard wants.

Christmas would be limited to former natives and friends and members of Asgard, as they state in their tg campaign against this liberation.

That would still be better than the annual feeding frenzy.

I disagree.

Which, in your eyes, is better - a situation in which a region might be taken as a trophy region but might well not be taken as a trophy region, or a situation where a region is definitely fought over ad infinitum until it's so shattered and broken that there's no semblance of a community left?

Would there be a community if Asgard did what they say they'll do?

I doubt it. Asgard plans once a year events, with the region likely being empty and silent the 11 and a half months.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

That would still be better than the annual feeding frenzy.

1) I disagree.

Which, in your eyes, is better - a situation in which a region might be taken as a trophy region but might well not be taken as a trophy region, or a situation where a region is definitely fought over ad infinitum until it's so shattered and broken that there's no semblance of a community left?

Would there be a community if Asgard did what they say they'll do?

I doubt it. Asgard plans once a year events, 2) with the region likely being empty and silent the 11 and a half months.

1) Any particular reason why? I'm not going to press the point, I'm just wondering.
2) And that's different to now how, exactly?

[Ambroscus Koth]

I doubt it. Asgard plans once a year events, with the region likely being empty and silent the 11 and a half months.

I'm sorry, I forgot you were part of the Asgard leadership. Please, tell the SC more about our plans when you have not a clue what you're talking about.

[Cromarty]

Christmas would be limited to former natives and friends and members of Asgard, as they state in their tg campaign against this liberation.

It will be open to anyone who wished to push the "Move nation" button.

So you lied in your campaign then?

We intend to make Christmas a cultural hub of NationStates, the home to Christmas and other winter celebrations sponsored by Asgard and our friends and allies abroad.

Oops. There seems to be either an honesty deficit within Asgard, or the right hand doesn't know what the left wants.

So which is it? Are you dishonest or just incompetent?

I disagree.


Would there be a community if Asgard did what they say they'll do?

I doubt it. Asgard plans once a year events, with the region likely being empty and silent the 11 and a half months.

And that's different to now how, exactly?

The difference is Asgard gets to put their name on it. Why should they be allowed to?

I doubt it. Asgard plans once a year events, with the region likely being empty and silent the 11 and a half months.

I'm sorry, I forgot you were part of the Asgard leadership. Please, tell the SC more about our plans when you have not a clue what you're talking about.

I'm quoting your Ambassador to Osiris, which you'd know if Asgard could be bothered to check with each other on just what you're doing and saying.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

It will be open to anyone who wished to push the "Move nation" button.

So you lied in your campaign then?

We intend to make Christmas a cultural hub of NationStates, the home to Christmas and other winter celebrations sponsored by Asgard and our friends and allies abroad.

Oops. There seems to be either an honesty deficit within Asgard, or the right hand doesn't know what the left wants.

'Sponsored by' is not a synonym of 'limited to'.

And that's different to now how, exactly?

The difference is Asgard gets to put their name on it. Why should they be allowed to?

R/D exists, deal with it. They'll be able to put their name on it this Christmas anyway, if they choose to occupy it on 25th December.

[Cromarty]

So you lied in your campaign then?

We intend to make Christmas a cultural hub of NationStates, the home to Christmas and other winter celebrations sponsored by Asgard and our friends and allies abroad.

Oops. There seems to be either an honesty deficit within Asgard, or the right hand doesn't know what the left wants.

'Sponsored by' is not a synonym of 'limited to'.

Oh yes I'm sure Asgard has held dozens of events open to all.

R/D exists, deal with it.

OMGREALLY? R/D EXISTS? MIND=BLOWN.

They'll be able to put their name on it this Christmas anyway, if they choose to occupy it on 25th December.

Which is better than them having their names on it 365 days a year.

[Queg]

What Asgard should do is just release Christmas completely after they have done what they are planning to do.
No sponsering, no controlling the events, no leadership, no taking part in any elections they might hold, no NOTHING.
This way, Asgard can refound it FOR the natives, then leave the natives alone to run the region as they wish.
That is my position

[Ambroscus Koth]

What Asgard should do is just release Christmas completely after they have done what they are planning to do.
No sponsering, no controlling the events, no leadership, no taking part in any elections they might hold, no NOTHING.
This way, Asgard can refound it FOR the natives, then leave the natives alone to run the region as they wish.
That is my position

But if it was up to just the natives, nothing would happen. I'm not saying that to be a jerk, I'm saying it because history says nobody has posted in the RMB before Asgard occupation for 140+ days, and there was 0 synergy between the natives when we got there. Maybe with Asgard influence, something cool can emerge from an otherwise stagnant and war scarred region.

Or the lib can pass and we go back to the same old crap. *shrug*

[Cromarty]

What Asgard should do is just release Christmas completely after they have done what they are planning to do.
No sponsering, no controlling the events, no leadership, no taking part in any elections they might hold, no NOTHING.
This way, Asgard can refound it FOR the natives, then leave the natives alone to run the region as they wish.
That is my position

But if it was up to just the natives, nothing would happen. I'm not saying that to be a jerk, I'm saying it because history says nobody has posted in the RMB before Asgard occupation for 140+ days, and there was 0 synergy between the natives when we got there. Maybe with Asgard influence, something cool can emerge from an otherwise stagnant and war scarred region.

You could do that without refounding the region.

Or the lib can pass and we go back to the same old crap. *shrug*

That sounds good.

[Queg]

or, Asgard can stick around for a little, recruit some new into the region, that way its not just the old people who dont do anything at all.
come on guys, help me out. im trying to compromise as best as i can

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

or, Asgard can stick around for a little, recruit some new into the region, that way its not just the old people who dont do anything at all.
come on guys, help me out. im trying to compromise as best as i can

It's not really a situation in which anyone's willing to compromise.

[Queg]

What Asgard should do is just release Christmas completely after they have done what they are planning to do.
No sponsering, no controlling the events, no leadership, no taking part in any elections they might hold, no NOTHING.
This way, Asgard can refound it FOR the natives, then leave the natives alone to run the region as they wish.
That is my position

But if it was up to just the natives, nothing would happen. I'm not saying that to be a jerk, I'm saying it because history says nobody has posted in the RMB before Asgard occupation for 140+ days, and there was 0 synergy between the natives when we got there. Maybe with Asgard influence, something cool can emerge from an otherwise stagnant and war scarred region.

Or the lib can pass and we go back to the same old crap. *shrug*

also, who says that after refounding the region and all, that the natives wont have learned their lesson and become more active, maybe even getting an offsite forum?

[Queg]

either way, i believe Asgard's intentions were good at heart, whether or not they took the needed precautions and permissions to refound a region that wasn't theirs

I had to vote AGAINST on this one, because i believe they have/had good intentions

[Ambroscus Koth]

also, who says that after refounding the region and all, that the natives wont have learned their lesson and become more active, maybe even getting an offsite forum?

Who knows, that might (and hopefully) be the case. I'm definitely not opposed to opening up a public Christmas forum. Your vote is much appreciated, by the way.

[Zintai]

I am a native of Christmas. I do not want it liberated. That being said, I do not want the region to be refounded. I do not want the region to be passworded. I do not want myself and others ejected from the region.

Therefore, I support this proposal.

I don't think this got enough attention. Here's an ejected native of the supposedly inactive community saying that between liberation and having the region refounded, liberation is preferable. If Asgard's intentions are truly as noble as they say, they would have immediately ceased their efforts after hearing that the native population wasn't interested in a non-native founder.

Have they ceased their efforts? Or can we start calling this attempt to "protect" Christmas what it actually is - a raid?

[Sacred Yggdrasil]

Like Koth just said, an offsite forum will definitely be part of our revival plan, and of course all help will be appreciated at that time...unlike what some people have been saying, we do intend to do our best to make Christmas an active region all year round.

[Queg]

now that i have heard that a nation prefers liberation over refounding, i am raising the question, has Asgard gone to far saying it was gonna refound it? did anyone consider the natives opinion and ask them what they want to happen? maybe ask them what they want, and only put that into action for them or something along those lines? has ANYONE considered that?

[Vitius]

now that i have heard that a nation prefers liberation over refounding, i am raising the question, has Asgard gone to far saying it was gonna refound it? did anyone consider the natives opinion and ask them what they want to happen? maybe ask them what they want, and only put that into action for them or something along those lines? has ANYONE considered that?

Uhhh...yes.

If you even take a glance at the past few pages you'll find the answer to your question.

[Ambroscus Koth]

now that i have heard that a nation prefers liberation over refounding, i am raising the question, has Asgard gone to far saying it was gonna refound it? did anyone consider the natives opinion and ask them what they want to happen? maybe ask them what they want, and only put that into action for them or something along those lines? has ANYONE considered that?

Well yeah, that's Mahaj and Unibot's entire argument. If Lebuckte wants to offer an alternative way of keeping Christmas stable and at the same time founderless, I'd like to hear them.

[Queg]

k, i read the first page or 2, just wonderin

[Mahaj]

now that i have heard that a nation prefers liberation over refounding, i am raising the question, has Asgard gone to far saying it was gonna refound it? did anyone consider the natives opinion and ask them what they want to happen? maybe ask them what they want, and only put that into action for them or something along those lines? has ANYONE considered that?

Well yeah, that's Mahaj and Unibot's entire argument. If Lebuckte wants to offer an alternative way of keeping Christmas stable and at the same time founderless, I'd like to hear them.

It doesn't matter. The opinions of the native are whats important, and Asgard decided to eject the native instead.

[Jamie Anumia]

Well yeah, that's Mahaj and Unibot's entire argument. If Lebuckte wants to offer an alternative way of keeping Christmas stable and at the same time founderless, I'd like to hear them.

It doesn't matter. The opinions of the native are whats important, and Asgard decided to eject the native instead.

Even though the native's stance would leave the region open to further invasions? It would prevent passwording the region for security, for example.
- WA Ambassador - Treacle Smith -

[Cromarty]

It doesn't matter. The opinions of the native are whats important, and Asgard decided to eject the native instead.

Even though the native's stance would leave the region open to further invasions? It would prevent passwording the region for security, for example.
- WA Ambassador - Treacle Smith -

Liberations can be repealed.

[Ambroscus Koth]

Well yeah, that's Mahaj and Unibot's entire argument. If Lebuckte wants to offer an alternative way of keeping Christmas stable and at the same time founderless, I'd like to hear them.

It doesn't matter. The opinions of the native are whats important, and Asgard decided to eject the native instead.

Lebuckte was ejected hours before he posted.