[PASSED] Liberate Christmas

[Skyrim Diplomacy]

Qu'est-ce que WHAT?!?
How can you not want the region to be liberated and then support a liberation proposal?

I'm guessing that speech was nearly exactly quoted from a Mahaj prodding TG.

[Eist]

I am a native of Christmas. I do not want it liberated. That being said, I do not want the region to be refounded. I do not want the region to be passworded. I do not want myself and others ejected from the region.

Therefore, I support this proposal.

Qu'est-ce que WHAT?!?
How can you not want the region to be liberated and then support a liberation proposal?

I believe they mean that they would rather just be left the fuck alone. Given that raiding and harassing and banishing innocent natives from regions is legal, the next best alternative is to liberate the region -- even though this is not their most desired procedure.

[Jamie Anumia]

I think most of my reasoning rests on the argument of this proposal being little more than a defender tool. However, I do have other reasons, there has not been 1 native that has posted in this thread arguing for the liberation, which leads me to think this proposal does not even have native support.
- WA Ambassador - Treacle Smith -

The raid didn't have native support either.

I'm not sure why you think its okay to destroy regions.

It's a region that is inactive for 11 months of the year. I really don't get -why- it has to be liberated.
- WA Ambassador - Treacle Smith -

[Vanhania]

As far as I am concerned the liberation is pointless. If it is refounded it will be safe if it is not refounded it will be a wasteland facing invasion after invasion. I think if people want their region to be liberated they should propose it that way you dont have people liberating for the wrong reasons. That said I'm against this liberation.

[Ambroscus Koth]

Given that raiding and harassing and banishing innocent natives from regions is legal, the next best alternative is to liberate the region -- even though this is not their most desired procedure.

We are not banishing anyone, you would know this if you paid attention to the dozen or so times when Asgard's reps have stated the natives will be allowed, and are encouraged to, return after refounding.

I won't even comment on the harassing bit.

[Cromarty]

The raid didn't have native support either.

I'm not sure why you think its okay to destroy regions.

It's a region that is inactive for 11 months of the year. I really don't get -why- it has to be liberated.
- WA Ambassador - Treacle Smith -

Because a native wants it?

[Cromarty]

I am a native of Christmas. I do not want it liberated. That being said, I do not want the region to be refounded. I do not want the region to be passworded. I do not want myself and others ejected from the region.

Therefore, I support this proposal.

Qu'est-ce que WHAT?!?
How can you not want the region to be liberated and then support a liberation proposal?

Lesser of two evils. Wants the password and the raiders gone more than the ability to password the region in the future.

It's a smart move, looking at it objectively. A liberation can be undone, a refound by raiders can't.

[United States of Natan]

Guys! all of you opposed to the liberation need to realize 1 thing: This is important to some people. and they feel their region has the right to freedom! they don't want to be a colony! So I say you guys should support this to make the people that this is important to happy!

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

So what I'm guessing is no matter what raiders can not refound regions? Why not just make it illegal? This region was inactive, why do defenders care so much for small inactive regions? it seems to me that every region now no matter how small will be liberated by the UDL. Not that I care anymore, but, I'm against the idea of defenders/raiders dictating how the game should be played

The problem and I have noticed this with raiders, is defenders believe themselves to always be right and morally justified and never wrong.

Unless theirs a large outcry, who cares?

"Every region no matter how small will be liberated by the UDL."

Not true. Corporate Fascism is a case in point - the UDL military liberation attempt has failed miserably. I'm waiting for Mahaj to write the liberation praising its 'long community history' and condemning the 'extremist left-wing forces' who've moved in, despite the fact that we have antifascists from across the political spectrum there.

Also, Unibot admitted to me in a chat the other day that the UDL is unlikely to defend regions where the attackers 'dogpile' endorsements on the invader Delegate.

So there you have it. The UDL has essentially given up trying to defend places if there is a significant raider presence and has resorted to using the SC as their supreme toy.

At least raiders don't sprint for the moral high ground.

However, the fact that 'Liberate Hanseatic League' failed miserably and 'Liberate Christmas' looks like it may go the same way gives me a glimmer of hope that maybe people aren't just giving a thoughtless 'Yes' to every Liberation proposal they see.

In summary, vote 'No' to 'Liberate Christmas', it's a farce organised by a morally bankrupt and incompetent group of 'defenders'.

Guys! all of you opposed to the liberation need to realize 1 thing: This is important to some people. and they feel their region has the right to freedom! they don't want to be a colony! So I say you guys should support this to make the people that this is important to happy!

For God's sake contribute something other than chirpy spam based entirely around your own subjective view of 'happy'.

[United States of Natan]

What I wrote was not spam! How is it at all considered spam?

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

What I wrote was not spam! How is it at all considered spam?

Well, maybe not spam, but it contributes virtually nothing.

Also, can you please stop giving every post Subject titles in future?

[Mahaj]

What I wrote was not spam! How is it at all considered spam?

You're right, its your opinion and it deserves to be respected.

[Cromarty]

What I wrote was not spam! How is it at all considered spam?

Well, maybe not spam, but it contributes virtually nothing.

Also, can you please stop giving every post Subject titles in future?

He's breaking no rules. Stop trying to mod this thread.

[Mahaj]

Also, Unibot admitted to me in a chat the other day that the UDL is unlikely to defend regions where the attackers 'dogpile' endorsements on the invader Delegate.

So there you have it. The UDL has essentially given up trying to defend places if there is a significant raider presence and has resorted to using the SC as their supreme toy.

Congratulations, you've figured out that piling works. A coward tactic for a bunch of cowards. Well done.

In summary, vote 'No' to 'Liberate Christmas', it's a farce organised by a morally bankrupt and incompetent group of 'defenders'.

Do you ever wish you had knowledge?

[United States of Natan]

Guys, some people think this is important. why should they lose their region? I still say everyone should support them.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

Also, Unibot admitted to me in a chat the other day that the UDL is unlikely to defend regions where the attackers 'dogpile' endorsements on the invader Delegate.

So there you have it. The UDL has essentially given up trying to defend places if there is a significant raider presence and has resorted to using the SC as their supreme toy.

Congratulations, you've figured out that piling works. A coward tactic for a bunch of cowards. Well done.

Oh God, the irony of someone who has resorted to the SC before, and undoubtedly will again, because his organisation is incapable of fighting, calling a group of better organised and more motivated people 'cowards' for using more sensible tactics.

Do you ever wish you had knowledge?

Do you?

[Mahaj]

Congratulations, you've figured out that piling works. A coward tactic for a bunch of cowards. Well done.

Oh God, the irony of someone who has resorted to the SC before, and undoubtedly will again, because his organisation is incapable of fighting, calling a group of better organised and more motivated people 'cowards' for using more sensible tactics.

Its a cheap tactic and everyone knows it.

Do you ever wish you had knowledge?

Do you?

No need to wish for something I have.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

Oh God, the irony of someone who has resorted to the SC before, and undoubtedly will again, because his organisation is incapable of fighting, calling a group of better organised and more motivated people 'cowards' for using more sensible tactics.

Its a cheap tactic and everyone knows it.

So is region piling but I have no problem with using it to keep large groups of fascist-defenders out.

Anyway, going back on topic to the resolution, what evidence do you have, Mahaj, that Asgard's intentions for Christmas are hostile?

(He says this well aware of the absurdity of that last sentence.)

[Skyrim Diplomacy]

Guys, some people think this is important. why should they lose their region? I still say everyone should support them.

No one has been forcibly removed, if you would read the rest of the thread.

[Ambroscus Koth]

Guys, some people think this is important. why should they lose their region? I still say everyone should support them.

they aren't losing anything oh my god how many times must I explain this

[Vanhania]

If they refound Christmas it will be safer for the inhabitants and we wont have to worry about liberations for Christmas poping up time and time again.

[United States of Natan]

Well guys, the people in the region don't want to be a colony. that is why this was brought before the WA. to give natives back control of the place. it doesnt seem fair that they dont get the liberation of their region just because of some people that think that it deserves to be a colony or they think people can do whatever they want with it. I SAY LIBERATE THE REGION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Vanhania]

They should have kept the founder of the region active or atleast had a WA delegate. Being in a founderless region is stupid and pointless.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

Well guys, the people in the region don't want to be a colony. that is why this was brought before the WA. to give natives back control of the place. it doesnt seem fair that they dont get the liberation of their region just because of some people that think that it deserves to be a colony or they think people can do whatever they want with it. I SAY LIBERATE THE REGION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Natives don't get control of the place if the Liberation was passed because if it is, raiders will turn up every Christmas, invade it and drive out the natives in a completely different manner to the refounding effort of Asgard. In protesting against what you see to be an attack on Christmas, you're in effect promoting and enabling further attacks upon Christmas, every Christmas.

[Mahaj]

Its a cheap tactic and everyone knows it.

So is region piling but I have no problem with using it to keep large groups of fascist-defenders out.

Anyway, going back on topic to the resolution, what evidence do you have, Mahaj, that Asgard's intentions for Christmas are hostile?

(He says this well aware of the absurdity of that last sentence.)

Asked the president of Asgard.

He said that it was inevitable that a native would oppose Asgard's mission but that they planned on refounding it anyway.

Meaning this entire 'this is for the native' stuff is a complete lie.