[PASSED] Liberate Christmas

[Bundabunda]

Please go ahead and prove this to me. Last activity before the "Raiders" entered was 140 days ago. It's clear that this region's days were numbered based on how long the last nations would CTE, in which case it probably would've been refounded anyway.

Hence why it's survived since two thousand and fucking three.

So let me get this: You'd be willing to liberate this region on the ground of an illegal occupation, but you'd also let it rot and die out under the grounds that no foreign elements may enter the region?

....What?

[Sedgistan]

Cromarty, cut out the constant swearing. It's raising the temperature of the thread, needlessly.

Three posts count as constant now? I'd like to see the moderation team's definition of constant.

Five, actually. And yes, that's sufficient to be told to stop it.

[Cromarty]

Hence why it's survived since two thousand and fucking three.

So let me get this: You'd be willing to liberate this region on the ground of an illegal occupation, but you'd also let it rot and die out under the grounds that no foreign elements may enter the region?

....What?

Clearly that's what I said.

Oh wait, it's not.

What I said was that this region had survived since 2003. If you had bothered to any kind of basic research on the region, you'd see that it has been quiet for a long time.

One assumes the natives want it that way.

Three posts count as constant now? I'd like to see the moderation team's definition of constant.

Five, actually. And yes, that's sufficient to be told to stop it.

5? Well please forgive me sir, I humbly and fully apologise for offending your delicate sensibilities.

[United States of Natan]

I happen to think that either an acceptable deal should be reached or the Asgard should Cede the region

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

I happen to think that either an acceptable deal should be reached or the Asgard should Cede the region

Define 'acceptable deal'.

[Fynnbays]

I happen to think that either an acceptable deal should be reached or the Asgard should Cede the region

As you've stated roughly 10 times. This is a round-about discussion yes but it is, at least, a discussion. Please input some decent rhetoric and not just state your view as you have done again and again.

[Bundabunda]

I happen to think that either an acceptable deal should be reached or the Asgard should Cede the region

I'm inclined to agree with you.
If and when Christmas is refounded, Asgard should hand the password over to one of the two natives who oppose the "Occupation". But not to cede the region. Christmas can't defend itself adaquetly enough without:

A. Going to Asgard for help if it ever gets raided again. (Under the conditions I'd want, the natives wouldn't have to go to Asgard because they'd have the password. )
B. Constantly go back to UDL/Defender organizations for assistance under the liberation. That's if there is anyone active enough to maintain relations.

[Cromarty]

I happen to think that either an acceptable deal should be reached or the Asgard should Cede the region

I'm inclined to agree with you.
If and when Christmas is refounded, Asgard should hand the password over to one of the two natives who oppose the "Occupation". But not to cede the region. Christmas can't defend itself adaquetly enough without:

A. Going to Asgard for help if it ever gets raided again. (Under the conditions I'd want, the natives wouldn't have to go to Asgard because they'd have the password. )
B. Constantly go back to UDL/Defender organizations for assistance under the liberation. That's if there is anyone active enough to maintain relations.

This I'm definitely inclined to agree with.

[Skyrim Diplomacy]

This I'm definitely inclined to agree with.

Now all you have to do...is get Mahaj on board! Should be a snap!

[Bundabunda]

I'm inclined to agree with you.
If and when Christmas is refounded, Asgard should hand the password over to one of the two natives who oppose the "Occupation". But not to cede the region. Christmas can't defend itself adaquetly enough without:

A. Going to Asgard for help if it ever gets raided again. (Under the conditions I'd want, the natives wouldn't have to go to Asgard because they'd have the password. )
B. Constantly go back to UDL/Defender organizations for assistance under the liberation. That's if there is anyone active enough to maintain relations.

This I'm definitely inclined to agree with.

Let's consider this compromise, in that case.

To suggest to the people of Asgard:
Should the region be refounded, the password should be given to a native.

[Zintai]

The second native who spoke out gave us a pretty good reason why we haven't heard from more of them.

I would also note that just because I haven't said anything for four days doesn't mean I didn't notice... I can assure you that I noticed within a day of being ejected. The reason I didn't respond to your telegrams is that I thought nothing of them. Raiders have typically only stayed a couple of days and none have done this before.

Yes, this region does get raided all the time. But it's still there, and they've never been kicked out for a refound. Most of the natives have no reason to see this as anything except "business as usual," and may not even know the difference between this and the other raids.

And the two natives that have spoken out have both been in favor of this liberation as the second best option in their minds. The first best, of course, would be Asgard leaving willingly. But we all know that they're doing this "for the natives" and so they couldn't possibly do something silly like listen to the natives and leave

This is a raid of a region with active nations in it, pure and simple. Any lies you may have heard to the contrary seem more and more flimsy as you realize that now somewhere between 20% and 100% of the population of

a region of 2-10 inactive nations before the invasion

have spoken up against Asgard's refounding plan.

[United States of Natan]

well hopefully an acceptable bargain can be reached so that the natives can be in control again.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

well hopefully an acceptable bargain can be reached so that the natives can be in control again.

What would you class as an 'acceptable bargain'?

[United States of Natan]

when the representatives of both side agree on a deal

[Bundabunda]

well hopefully an acceptable bargain can be reached so that the natives can be in control again.

What would you class as an 'acceptable bargain'?

I think he was referring to my compromise. It would allow Asgard to refound the region, but the password would have to be given back to a native.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

when the representatives of both side agree on a deal

What sort of deal would you envisage as one where the representatives of both sides could agree? I'm a fan of the idea proposed by my comrade Bundabunda, but all I've seen thus far leads me to believe that Mahaj would rather eat his hat than accept that, to be honest.

[Bundabunda]

when the representatives of both side agree on a deal

What sort of deal would you envisage as one where the representatives of both sides could agree? I'm a fan of the idea proposed by my comrade Bundabunda, but all I've seen thus far leads me to believe that Mahaj would rather eat his hat than accept that, to be honest.

Well...you know how Mahaj is. Defenders just love to compromise, don't they?

[Fynnbays]

@Natan
Please urge you. Read the last post I made.

[Skyrim Diplomacy]

Let's be realistic: there isn't going to be a deal between Mahaj/UDL and the evil, baby-eating raiders that are Asgard. Plain and simple. BUt, if you really want to continue with that train of thought, go for it.

I'm still failing to see how a UDL occupation/Liberation (which would surely take place if this passes) is any better than what Asgard is currently doing.

[Bundabunda]

Let's be realistic: there isn't going to be a deal between Mahaj/UDL and the evil, baby-eating raiders that are Asgard. Plain and simple. BUt, if you really want to continue with that train of thought, go for it.

I'm still failing to see how a UDL occupation/Liberation (which would surely take place if this passes) is any better than what Asgard is currently doing.

I'm in full agreement with you, BUT if it were to reach a compromise, the handing over of the password should be the way to go.
UDL is a lot like the U.S Government of the Cold War: they'll put people back in power and then ask of the new countries' leaders to align with them and only them.

[Cromarty]

Let's be realistic: there isn't going to be a deal between Mahaj/UDL and the evil, baby-eating raiders that are Asgard. Plain and simple. BUt, if you really want to continue with that train of thought, go for it.

I'm still failing to see how a UDL occupation/Liberation (which would surely take place if this passes) is any better than what Asgard is currently doing.

I'm in full agreement with you, BUT if it were to reach a compromise, the handing over of the password should be the way to go.
UDL is a lot like the U.S Government of the Cold War: they'll put people back in power and then ask of the new countries' leaders to align with them and only them.

You're free to provide examples of that happening, or I'd ask you to withdraw the fabrication.

[Skyrim Diplomacy]

You're free to provide examples of that happening, or I'd ask you to withdraw the fabrication.

*cough cough Osiris* No wait, that was TITO.

[Galiantus]

Let's be realistic: there isn't going to be a deal between Mahaj/UDL and the evil, baby-eating raiders that are Asgard. Plain and simple. BUt, if you really want to continue with that train of thought, go for it.

I'm still failing to see how a UDL occupation/Liberation (which would surely take place if this passes) is any better than what Asgard is currently doing.

I'm in full agreement with you, BUT if it were to reach a compromise, the handing over of the password should be the way to go.
UDL is a lot like the U.S Government of the Cold War: they'll put people back in power and then ask of the new countries' leaders to align with them and only them.

You have a very good view of thing as they really are.

As for Christmas, the question is whether or not it is the culture or region you are interested in preserving. If the region is refounded by Asgard, I believe that the region will eventually split off from Asgard and develop it's own strong community, come Christmas. I also see no reason for them not to remove any password from the region, because they have the chance to make Christmas a very active region around the holiday season, and can take credit for it.

All UDL will do is make things go back to the way they were, the region either under their permanent control, or always under threat of invasion. To be honest, I just want the region to be refounded and given the chance to excel in it's own areas, and Asgard looks like the faster option to do this.

[Bundabunda]

I'm in full agreement with you, BUT if it were to reach a compromise, the handing over of the password should be the way to go.
UDL is a lot like the U.S Government of the Cold War: they'll put people back in power and then ask of the new countries' leaders to align with them and only them.

You're free to provide examples of that happening, or I'd ask you to withdraw the fabrication.

I'll redact my statement. I won't withdraw the fabrication.
Defenders are a lot like the U.S Government of the Cold War:they'll put people back in power and then ask of the new countries' leaders to align with them and only them.

This can be seen in even this liberation attempt! Clearly if Christmas is liberated, there won't be any proper defending from the natives. So who will the only 2 active nations rely on when raiders come knocking? Defenders!

How about AoSS? Little Basses has the Delegate seat and has changed the password. This changing of the password, I'll bet my month's earnings on, must've been due to UDL persuasion. Now if someone were to get their hands on the password and invade it, guess who else will know the password? Defenders!

So yes, the defender philosophy follows the doctrine of the US: "If we help you out, you're in business with us forever."

[Sichuan Pepper]

You're free to provide examples of that happening, or I'd ask you to withdraw the fabrication.

*cough cough Osiris* No wait, that was TITO.

TITO have no influence in Osiris.
We have defended it though

I am certain it was stated earlier that the founder nation would NOT be shared with natives. There was no compromise there from the invaders that took the region and now hold it and are ejecting Natives.