[PASSED] Liberate Christmas

by **Ambroscus Koth** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:45 pm

Zintai wrote:
Ambroscus Koth wrote:We haven't even heard from more than 2 of the natives. Then again, there are still 4 nations in Christmas that are all puppets of the same guy, so hopefully we can at least pull someone else out of the woodwork who gives a crap.

And out of curiosity, what if more showed up and were also in favor of staying founderless and being left alone? Would Asgard leave willingly?

It remains to be seen. Until then however, I urge the SC to look at this proposal for what it really is: a defender tool. At the time Mahaj brought it to the table, nobody knew of any of the natives' opinions on the matter, so any claim to the contrary is just ridiculous seeing as how they had no idea what was really best for the natives. This liberation benefits the UDL, of which the author is a prominent member, plain and simple.

by **United States of Natan** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:46 pm

We still think that the Christmas region deserves a chance

by **Ambroscus Koth** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:49 pm

United States of Natan wrote:We still think that the Christmas region deserves a chance

And it will be given that chance when we refound it. It can become more than a puppet dump that's constantly being raided.

by **United States of Natan** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:50 pm

you guys are just using it as a satellite nation

by **Skyrim Diplomacy** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:55 pm

United States of Natan wrote:you guys are just using it as a satellite nation

...what kind of argument is that? Asgard came in and injected life in a puppet dump active probably one week in an entire year. They aren't doing anything evil as this liberation proposal suggests.

by **Ambroscus Koth** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:55 pm

United States of Natan wrote:you guys are just using it as a satellite nation

Well first of all it's a region, not a nation. And there have been countless "satellites" (as you call them) of certain regions that have gone on to become absolutely giant. Case and point: The New Inquisition.

by **United States of Natan** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:58 pm

so? why cant you let anyone back into the region?

by **Ambroscus Koth** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:59 pm

United States of Natan wrote:so? why cant you let anyone back into the region?

WE ARE! When the refounding process is complete, everyone in the game will be able to enter!

by **United States of Natan** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:00 pm

How about we settle this right now: if you agree to let the natives back in, I will stop criticizing you and get everyone else to, also.

by **Skyrim Diplomacy** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:01 pm

United States of Natan wrote:How about we settle this right now: if you agree to let the natives back in, I will stop criticizing you and get everyone else to, also.

Lolololol. now you presume to speak for the rest of the supporters of this Liberation?

by **United States of Natan** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:04 pm

I will make sure they all find out.

by **Mahaj** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:05 pm

Skyrim Diplomacy wrote:
United States of Natan wrote:you guys are just using it as a satellite nation

...what kind of argument is that? Asgard came in and injected life in a puppet dump active probably one week in an entire year. They aren't doing anything evil as this liberation proposal suggests.

Hostilely refounding a region is evil.

by **United States of Natan** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:07 pm

Mahaj wrote:
Skyrim Diplomacy wrote:...what kind of argument is that? Asgard came in and injected life in a puppet dump active probably one week in an entire year. They aren't doing anything evil as this liberation proposal suggests.

Hostilely refounding a region is evil.

I agree and mahaj, If the deal I proposed were to be accepted, would you agree to the deal?

by **Skyrim Diplomacy** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:07 pm

Mahaj wrote:Hostilely refounding a region is evil.

Said the UDL from their high, shining throne! :roll:

Taking control of an inactive region is, however, a completely different story. And that is the case here, not one of "hostile refounding" as you insinuate.

by **Jamie Anumia** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:09 pm

Mahaj wrote:
Skyrim Diplomacy wrote:...what kind of argument is that? Asgard came in and injected life in a puppet dump active probably one week in an entire year. They aren't doing anything evil as this liberation proposal suggests.

Hostilely refounding a region is evil.

IC: The ambassador from Jamie Anumia laughs and shakes her head, refounding a puppet dump is evil now?

- WA Ambassador - Treacle Smith -
OOC: That comment is the most ridiculous comment you've made in the entire thread, raiding a puppet dump is evil... :roll:

by **Cormac Stark** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:14 pm

United States of Natan wrote:How about we settle this right now: if you agree to let the natives back in, I will stop criticizing you and get everyone else to, also.

Any native who has been ejected from the region has only been ejected after being contacted about refounding. They are aware of the refounding process and they have been guaranteed the right to return to the region following refounding.

As the Delegate of Christmas (Nicholas Remington is my Delegate nation) and as the Commanding Officer of the Asgard Imperial Armed Forces, I offer my personal guarantee that every native will be permitted to return to Christmas after refounding. In fact, I have every intention of sending an invitation to each and every one of them following the refounding process -- because, as we have always said, we hope for an active regional community in Christmas.

by **United States of Natan** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:20 pm

yes, but I have tracked down some members from the region, and many of them said they dont want to be refounded.

by **Skyrim Diplomacy** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:23 pm

United States of Natan wrote:yes, but I have tracked down some members from the region, and many of them said they dont want to be refounded.

Have ya, now? And you are quite sure they all aren't puppets of the same person? That would be tragically comic. Inactive nations that lay claim to a region are ridiculous. What is the harm of refounding the region then going and being inactive in the new region? There is no harm there.

by **United States of Natan** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:24 pm

why dont you simply restart the government, not refound the region

by **Ambroscus Koth** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:24 pm

United States of Natan wrote:yes, but I have tracked down some members from the region, and many of them said they dont want to be refounded.

Can you please offer any evidence of this? A screenshot of a telegram you received, perhaps?

by **Skyrim Diplomacy** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:25 pm

United States of Natan wrote:why dont you simply restart the government, not refound the region

The point of refounding is so the region has a founder and is less likely to be raided in the future.

by **Ambroscus Koth** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:26 pm

United States of Natan wrote:why dont you simply restart the government, not refound the region

I've explained this several times now. Refounding the region basically is restarting the government after making it more secure, providing the region with a founder. Starting a new government in a founderless region is very dangerous.

by **Cormac Stark** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:28 pm

United States of Natan wrote:yes, but I have tracked down some members from the region, and many of them said they dont want to be refounded.

That's unfortunate but unsurprising, although Lebuckte is the only native who has spoken out against refounding in this thread so I'm afraid I'm not going to concede that there is more than one native opposed to refounding until they say so publicly. I certainly have not heard from any other native that they are opposed to our refounding plan.

That said, it wouldn't be surprising if natives are opposed to refounding given the smear campaign that has been conducted against us by this proposal's author and his friends in the UDL over the past few days. We have assured the natives of Christmas that we are only interested in providing security and building up the community and culture of the region, but after Mahaj & Co. have thrown around words like "liars" and "evil" for several days it's not surprising that these scare tactics might be somewhat effective.

We have been nothing but respectful toward the natives of Christmas and we hope that any who oppose our refounding plan will have a change of heart. In the meantime, we continue to believe that refounding this region would be better than "liberating" it for a future of constant invasion, puppet dumping, and chronic inactivity, and we intend to move forward with our plan. We ask the Security Council not to hinder us, we thank those who have supported us, and we respectfully ask those who have opposed us to cease their constant barrage of smear tactics. Just because you're losing doesn't mean you have to be classless and undiplomatic.

by **Mahaj** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:28 pm

Skyrim Diplomacy wrote:
Mahaj wrote:Hostilely refounding a region is evil.

Said the UDL from their high, shining throne! Taking control of an inactive region is, however, a completely different story. And that is the case here, not one of "hostile refounding" as you insinuate.

Um.

Is there a refound? check.

Does a native oppose? check.

that makes it a hostile refound.

by **United States of Natan** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:29 pm

Mahaj wrote:
Skyrim Diplomacy wrote:Said the UDL from their high, shining throne! Taking control of an inactive region is, however, a completely different story. And that is the case here, not one of "hostile refounding" as you insinuate.

Um.

Is there a refound? check.

Does a native oppose? check.

that makes it a hostile refound.

I agree.

[PASSED] Liberate Christmas

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