[PASSED] Condemn The Black Riders

[Jefferson and Paul]

It will accomplish the same as all condemnations. We must show them that their evils won't go unnoticed.

edit: This proposal is losing solely due to the delegate 10,000 Islands voting against my proposal (with 800+ endorsements).

[Hirota]

Bingo! This proposal is a waste of time. It will solve nothing, despite the efforts of some here who spend hours trying to figure out how to make his proposal get approval to be voted on.

Come to think of it, the WA is pretty pointless too. All they do is come up with dozens of new regulations each year telling countries how to run every aspect of their lives. Most people vote yes to every piece of legislation no matter the content, as evidenced by the fact that an Act passes with tremendous support, and 2 weeks latter someone pushes out an Act repealing the original Act, and it also passes with overwhelming support (happens all the time.) It's all a joke

Good, I'm not the only one to notice this.

It's sweet how you two think that you've noticed something new.

Anyway, opposed. Telling the bad guys they are bad guys is like giving them a medal or knighthood. If this passes, not only does it give them recognition, it means they can point at how even the SC cannot stop them.

[Jefferson and Paul]

Good, I'm not the only one to notice this.

It's sweet how you two think that you've noticed something new.

Anyway, opposed. Telling the bad guys they are bad guys is like giving them a medal or knighthood. If this passes, not only does it give them recognition, it means they can point at how even the SC cannot stop them.

No, it also deters new nations from joining. I can say this personally as when I first registered I was pestered by The Lone Wolves to join (they convinced me they where peaceful); I soon noticed their condemnation and was immediately turned off and took my business elsewhere.

[Interstellar Space Corps]

Why is this vote failing? Surely the world can see the truth right now about this cruel region...

[Jefferson and Paul]

Why is this vote failing? Surely the world can see the truth right now about this cruel region...

It would be passing, if not for Ananke II which hold 830 endorsements (831 votes).

But that's WA democracy for ya

[Parti Ouvrier]

It will accomplish the same as all condemnations. We must show them that their evils won't go unnoticed.

edit: This proposal is losing solely due to the delegate 10,000 Islands voting against my proposal (with 800+ endorsements).

I wasn't going to vote for this, but since The Black Riders hypocritical Allies 10ki,(no friends of mine) have voted against this, I'll be voting for.

FOR

CJ

[Jefferson and Paul]

It will accomplish the same as all condemnations. We must show them that their evils won't go unnoticed.

edit: This proposal is losing solely due to the delegate 10,000 Islands voting against my proposal (with 800+ endorsements).

I wasn't going to vote for this, but since The Black Riders hypocritical Allies 10ki,(no friends of mine) have voted against this, I'll be voting for.

FOR

CJ

Thank you.

[Frattastan]

I voted against the resolution.

• It's a deeply flawed proposal, which uses strong but completely inappropriate language to describe the actions of TBR.
  "Cultural genocide", "terror", "complete defacement", "undeniable downfall", "horrific seize" ... seriously? It seems like you're describing a bunch of soulless monsters, when most actions of TBR have been pretty mild compared to what I've seen from some raiders in the last years.
  Not even in the worst propaganda I've read this kind of stuff.
  
• I'm opposed in principle to condemning regions which practices - for the most part - crashing (as I previously stated elsewhere).
  
• Most importantly, I don't want to see a region like TBR condemned.
  Because they are neither the kind of opponents you hate, nor the kind of opponents you respect.
  They are the kind of opponents you despise.
  
  So far Condemnations have been used either as a badge of disapproval towards a group that's extremely disruptive and threatening to the peaceful life of NSers (Macedon), or as a "badge of honor" to those who contributed to the quality of the game, but whose contribution is mostly "evil" in-character.
  
  Adding the Recruiter Friendly tag to let regions being ad-spammed by Nazis? Why would anyone do that?
  Kicking natives? Why on earth? Was it a defender-aligned region? Or one made up of trolls? "No, it's simply because we can".
  Most actions aren't a tactical necessity. Or the product of an impressive skill. Heck, they aren't even "evil".
  They are just stupid and used to piss off other players (whether they are natives or random observers).

Neither worthy opponents nor serious threats. Much like we didn't condemn Eagle Clan or Bacon Strips, we shouldn't condemn TBR either.
Pettiness and noob arrogance - the worst qualities a raider can have - shouldn't be rewarded.

Try as hard as you can. History will forget you.

[Parti Ouvrier]

I voted against the resolution.

• It's a deeply flawed proposal, which uses strong but completely inappropriate language to describe the actions of TBR.
  "Cultural genocide", "terror", "complete defacement", "undeniable downfall", "horrific seize" ... seriously? It seems like you're describing a bunch of soulless monsters, when most actions of TBR have been pretty mild compared to what I've seen from some raiders in the last years.
  Not even in the worst propaganda I've read this kind of stuff.
  
• I'm opposed in principle to condemning regions which practices - for the most part - crashing (as I previously stated elsewhere).
  
• Most importantly, I don't want to see a region like TBR condemned.
  Because they are neither the kind of opponents you hate, nor the kind of opponents you respect.
  They are the kind of opponents you despise.
  
  So far Condemnations have been used either as a badge of disapproval towards a group that's extremely disruptive and threatening to the peaceful life of NSers (Macedon), or as a "badge of honor" to those who contributed to the quality of the game, but whose contribution is mostly "evil" in-character.
  
  Adding the Recruiter Friendly tag to let regions being ad-spammed by Nazis? Why would anyone do that?
  Kicking natives? Why on earth? Was it a defender-aligned region? Or one made up of trolls? "No, it's simply because we can".
  Most actions aren't a tactical necessity. Or the product of an impressive skill. Heck, they aren't even "evil".
  They are just stupid and used to piss off other players (whether they are natives or random observers).

Neither worthy opponents nor serious threats. Much like we didn't condemn Eagle Clan or Bacon Strips, we shouldn't condemn TBR either.
Pettiness and noob arrogance - the worst qualities a raider can have - shouldn't be rewarded.

Try as hard as you can. History will forget you.

I neither "hate" or "despise" them. I do despise 10ki.

[Frattastan]

I neither "hate" or "despise" them. I do despise 10ki.

Isn't that flawed logic?

[Parti Ouvrier]

I neither "hate" or "despise" them. I do despise 10ki.

Isn't that flawed logic?

True, but if you looked at it in the context being mistreated in their region, you'd understand.

Edit: I would be very surprised if this succeeded anyway, but I'm still for this.
Having said that, there are more individual WA nations for this than against.

[Frattastan]

You are underrating the power of inaccurate but strong-worded proposals.

[Jefferson and Paul]

Isn't that flawed logic?

True, but if you looked at it in the context being mistreated in their region, you'd understand.

Edit: I would be very surprised if this succeeded anyway, but I'm still for this.
Having said that, there are more individual WA nations for this than against.

That is true. We have the popular vote.

[Frattastan]

True, but if you looked at it in the context being mistreated in their region, you'd understand.

Edit: I would be very surprised if this succeeded anyway, but I'm still for this.
Having said that, there are more individual WA nations for this than against.

That is true. We have the popular vote.

There is a reason why WA Delegates have a heavier say, and it is to encourage political organization.

Since the force of their opinions will be strengthened, more and more individual nations decide to organize democratically, elect delegates and collectively choose how to vote on resolutions. Since WA Delegates, for the vast majority, can be recalled at any time (by withdrawing endorsements), their vote isn't any less "popular" than the vote of the single nations (which simply is the sum of the private interests and the particular wills of the single nations). >_>


*goes back on topic*

[United World Order]

I swear, what is with this forum? That's 3 defeated/drafted condemnations for us on the first page.

Either way, I support, because we're evil merciless thugs.

I guess they love being terrorized by /evil/ merciless /thugs/

[Jefferson and Paul]

That is true. We have the popular vote.

There is a reason why WA Delegates have a heavier say, and it is to encourage political organization.

Since the force of their opinions will be strengthened, more and more individual nations decide to organize democratically, elect delegates and collectively choose how to vote on resolutions. Since WA Delegates, for the vast majority, can be recalled at any time (by withdrawing endorsements), their vote isn't any less "popular" than the vote of the single nations (which simply is the sum of the private interests and the particular wills of the single nations). >_>


*goes back on topic*

That is not the true meaning of popular vote, and I'm not saying it's not a valid system; but we're not here to debate that.

[Frattastan]

I will be happy to debate the resolution if you attempt objecting to my points instead of appealing to the fact that you have "the popular vote" (which is kind of a way to completely avoid discussion).

[Abcdefghijklmnopqrstuk]

Against. I don't want to give TBR a condemnation because it will only be seen as a badge of honor, and also the resolution has many inaccuracies as already stated as the use of the words "cultural genocide" and others of the like are extremely overstating the mostly tag raids done by TBR

[Jefferson and Paul]

Against. I don't want to give TBR a condemnation because it will only be seen as a badge of honor, and also the resolution has many inaccuracies as already stated as the use of the words "cultural genocide" and others of the like are extremely overstating the mostly tag raids done by TBR

Either way it gets the job done?

It doesn't matter if they see it as a badge of honor.. Condemnations on regions DETER new nations from joining. Regardless of whether they want it or not it's the Security Councils duty to condemn those who do injustices to humanity (and all sapient beings) and the NationStates community.

[Skyrim Diplomacy]

Condemnations on regions DETER new nations from joining.

Not necessarily true. Look at TBH-they have been condemned for over a year and still maintain an active, strong membership.

[Jefferson and Paul]

Condemnations on regions DETER new nations from joining.

Not necessarily true. Look at TBH-they have been condemned for over a year and still maintain an active, strong membership.

Yes. But not as many enter the region, the existing ones stay active; they will begin to die off eventually.

[Datavia]

I don't like the over-the-top wording of this proposal, as compared to the treatment given to other non-condemned raiders.

I don't like the fact that the passing of this proposal won't have any effect whatsoever. It would be good to put at vote the ejection from the WA of those nations which are part of the TBR, now or in the future (but I don't think that it is feasible).

I don't like that one such condemnation can be regarded as a "badge of honor" by the raiders -- however, a commendation is deemed a good thing, so shouldn't a condemnation be the opposite?

I don't like generic condemnations, as a matter of fact, as they tend to achieve nothing -- but to raise a certain amount of awareness on a problem. It must be always followed by actions.

Everything said, and since this proposal is already at vote, Datavia must vote FOR it, because our people is strongly opposed to war, and we will always condemn aggression in all forms.

[Jefferson and Paul]

I don't like the over-the-top wording of this proposal, as compared to the treatment given to other non-condemned raiders.

I don't like the fact that the passing of this proposal won't have any effect whatsoever. It would be good to put at vote the ejection from the WA of those nations which are part of the TBR, now or in the future (but I don't think that it is feasible).

I don't like that one such condemnation can be regarded as a "badge of honor" by the raiders -- however, a commendation is deemed a good thing, so shouldn't a condemnation be the opposite?

I don't like generic condemnations, as a matter of fact, as they tend to achieve nothing -- but to raise a certain amount of awareness on a problem. It must be always followed by actions.

Everything said, and since this proposal is already at vote, Datavia must vote FOR it, because our people is strongly opposed to war, and we will always condemn aggression in all forms.

Thank you. If I could I would bar all Black Riders from the WA.

This notion "don't condemn terrorists because it's a badge of honor" is as silly as not sentencing a felon to prison on the notion that "don't convict felons because it gives them street-cred"..

[Frattastan]

The deterrent function of a Condemnation depends on the actual actions of the Condemned region.
Since TBR have no problems describing what they do in their recruitment telegrams - and people still join their ranks, I somewhat have my doubts this proposal will be a great deterrent.

[Delegate Vinage]

I, Lothar Prolark, World Assembly Delegate and Media Minister of Europeia will be voting NAY on this proposal after a landslide 0/9 internal vote decided said action. This is such a poorly written proposal that it is actually painful to read. Firstly there are way too many region tags in it, making it unsightly, and the lack of the common abbreviation of The Black Riders [TBR], leds me believe that the author has barely researched the region they are attempting to condemn. To further break this down...

RECOGNIZING The Black Riders attempts to terrorize and invade other nations which contradict or challenge their ideology or power,

Mmmm don't you mean 'invade other regions' rather than 'nations'? Really it is more like 'RECOGNIZING The Black Riders, TBR, are a large raiding region'.

DISGUSTED by The Black Riders recent "Operation Marathon", where The Black Riders. raided and forcibly took control of over 26 regions,

And? Well done TBR for such an achievement.

FEARFUL of the frequent invasions conducted weekly by The Black Riders., which lead to more cultural genocide and terror,

ALARMED by The Black Riders complete defacement of regions when forcibly assuming the role of regional delegate,

That is all I am going to express on these parts

ANGERED by The Black Riders forced removal of those nations which are native to the regions they conquer and in some cases putting in place secret passwords leading the regions to an undeniable downfall such as the passwording of Region of reunited muslim states and 32 day oppressive and horrific seize that followed,

This is probably the only part of this which could be worthy of a condemnation but it needs soooo much work on it to be usable. This is, quite frankly, nonsense and if it passes.... one would hope we will be voting on a repeal soon after.

Regards,