NATION

PASSWORD

[PASSED] Liberate Region of Reunited Muslim States

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Delegate Vinage
Envoy
 
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Founded: Jan 21, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Delegate Vinage » Thu May 24, 2012 3:28 am

I, Lothar Prolark, World Assembly Delegate and Media Minister of Europeia will be voting NAY on this proposal after an internal vote of 5/11 decided said action. While we do not support griefing or taunts being thrown towards natives - we also do not support regions which make homophobic slurs towards fellow members and slurs towards the region Gay. While some have claimed the slurs have been baited out of the natives, I cannot see anything to support this claim.

From the Liberation text itself I strongly disagree with this point...

AWARE that these natives have expressed their desire to return to their region and have subsequently gathered in the region of RORMS


Why? Because it is looks like nonsense to me due to these comments made:

View of the previous 'Region of reunited muslim state' Delegate
View of the current RORMS Delegate

In fact you look over the RORMS Regional Message Board and you do NOT see masses wanting to return to the 'previous' region. Instead you see the Founder of RORMS/Previous Delegate of Region of reunited muslim state and the current RORMS Delegate coming out and saying they do not want it. If they aren't interested in the region.... what's the point of the Liberation?

While some others have claimed that a previous Delegate and previous native expressed they wanted this but have now been deleted in the last few days - I ask why? Why have they been deleted? Also if it is a singular individual then that section of the Liberation is quite clearly wrong.

Finally we are disgusted that a previous Liberation involving Nazi's was dropped in favour for this one. Surely stopping and standing up against Nazism is more important than anything else? Maybe we just have different standards.....

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Vinage V. Grey-Anumia
World Assembly Delegate &
Former President of Europeia


"The Delegate Wipes What The Region Spills"
"Between two groups of people who want to make inconsistent kinds of worlds, I see no remedy but force"

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Sedgistan
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Founded: Oct 20, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby Sedgistan » Thu May 24, 2012 3:33 am

Opaloka wrote:
Tibberiria wrote:We vote for.

OOC: I know what a raider does, but I've never been able to figure out exactly what defenders do.


Some eg TITO actually do some defending.

The UDL just help elderly fascists cross the road.

*** Warned for flamebaiting/threadjacking. ***

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Krankor
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Founded: Feb 03, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby Krankor » Thu May 24, 2012 11:13 am

I, Krankor, delegate of Farkistan, vote NAY on the liberation proposal.

The timeline here is curious. Talgud was elected delegate of RORMS back in April after a long residency. And yet he passworded the region just at the beginning of this week. Surely the natives of RORMS had ample opportunity to study Talgud, his sympathies and his past activities, as well as the suspicious spike in immigrating nations over this period. Is the purpose of this liberation to compensate for the RORMS natives' lack of research skills and poor judgment?

But since Talgud has now been overthrown, the entire proposal may be rendered moot.

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Fischistan
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Founded: Oct 16, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Fischistan » Thu May 24, 2012 11:34 am

Krankor wrote:I, Krankor, delegate of Farkistan, vote NAY on the liberation proposal.

The timeline here is curious. Talgud was elected delegate of RORMS back in April after a long residency. And yet he passworded the region just at the beginning of this week. Surely the natives of RORMS had ample opportunity to study Talgud, his sympathies and his past activities, as well as the suspicious spike in immigrating nations over this period. Is the purpose of this liberation to compensate for the RORMS natives' lack of research skills and poor judgment?

But since Talgud has now been overthrown, the entire proposal may be rendered moot.

They knew that Talgud was a raider all the time.
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Unibot II wrote:It's Carta. He CANNOT Fail. Only successes in reverse.
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New Abooutland
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Founded: Apr 24, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby New Abooutland » Thu May 24, 2012 11:42 am

liberate it im getteing out of this region
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Call Me NA
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Datavia
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Founded: May 26, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby Datavia » Thu May 24, 2012 12:25 pm

According to our research, what this poroposal states is true, so Datavia feels obliged to vote FOR.

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Cinistra
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Founded: Oct 13, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Cinistra » Thu May 24, 2012 2:51 pm

Fischistan wrote:
Krankor wrote:I, Krankor, delegate of Farkistan, vote NAY on the liberation proposal.

The timeline here is curious. Talgud was elected delegate of RORMS back in April after a long residency. And yet he passworded the region just at the beginning of this week. Surely the natives of RORMS had ample opportunity to study Talgud, his sympathies and his past activities, as well as the suspicious spike in immigrating nations over this period. Is the purpose of this liberation to compensate for the RORMS natives' lack of research skills and poor judgment?

But since Talgud has now been overthrown, the entire proposal may be rendered moot.

They knew that Talgud was a raider all the time.

So, why didn't you try to have him expelled before he became the delegate?
"Send forth all legions! Do not stop the attack until the city is taken! Slay them all!"
>Can I invade other people's regions?

Yes. The practice of "region crashing," where a group of nations all move to a region with the aim of seizing the WA Delegate position, is part of the game. Certain groups within NationStates are particularly adroit at this, and can attack very quickly.
>Once I've taken over a region, can I eject everyone else?

You can try. Invader Delegates tend to have very little Regional Influence, which makes ejecting long-time residents difficult. But Delegates can be as kind, generous, evil, or despotic as they wish. It's up to regional residents to elect good Delegates.

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Fischistan
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Founded: Oct 16, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Fischistan » Thu May 24, 2012 2:55 pm

Cinistra wrote:
Fischistan wrote:They knew that Talgud was a raider all the time.

So, why didn't you try to have him expelled before he became the delegate?

We did try. We tried a few time, I believe.
Xavier D'Montagne
Fischistani Ambassador to the WA
Unibot II wrote:It's Carta. He CANNOT Fail. Only successes in reverse.
The Matthew Islands wrote:Knowledge is knowing the Tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad.
Anthony Delasanta wrote:its was not genocide it was ethnic cleansing...
Socorra wrote:A religion-free abortion thread is like a meat-free hamburger.
Help is on its Way: UDL
Never forget 11 September.
Never look off the edge of cliff on a segway.

11 September 1973, of course.

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Cromarty
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Founded: Oct 09, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Cromarty » Thu May 24, 2012 2:59 pm

Fischistan wrote:
Cinistra wrote:So, why didn't you try to have him expelled before he became the delegate?

We did try. We tried a few time, I believe.

I have no idea what you're talking about.
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Socialist Ecuador
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Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Socialist Ecuador » Thu May 24, 2012 3:00 pm

Fischistan wrote:
Cinistra wrote:So, why didn't you try to have him expelled before he became the delegate?

We did try. We tried a few time, I believe.

You never attempted a lib, as natives have attested. Unless I missed something, which is possible.
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Fischistan
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Founded: Oct 16, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Fischistan » Thu May 24, 2012 3:04 pm

Socialist Ecuador wrote:
Fischistan wrote:We did try. We tried a few time, I believe.

You never attempted a lib, as natives have attested. Unless I missed something, which is possible.

I know we did try to recruit for one, but could not get the numbers. And I'm pretty sure we were out defending when you raided it.
Xavier D'Montagne
Fischistani Ambassador to the WA
Unibot II wrote:It's Carta. He CANNOT Fail. Only successes in reverse.
The Matthew Islands wrote:Knowledge is knowing the Tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad.
Anthony Delasanta wrote:its was not genocide it was ethnic cleansing...
Socorra wrote:A religion-free abortion thread is like a meat-free hamburger.
Help is on its Way: UDL
Never forget 11 September.
Never look off the edge of cliff on a segway.

11 September 1973, of course.

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Unibot II
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Founded: Jan 10, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Unibot II » Thu May 24, 2012 5:31 pm

Fischistan wrote:
Socialist Ecuador wrote:You never attempted a lib, as natives have attested. Unless I missed something, which is possible.

I know we did try to recruit for one, but could not get the numbers. And I'm pretty sure we were out defending when you raided it.


This. We recruited for a liberation, but then the raid was piled heavily by the morning; we also had a liberation planned for sometime close to when the password was put in place.
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Jagermeister
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Founded: Mar 27, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Jagermeister » Thu May 24, 2012 5:45 pm

Asgard is vehemently opposed to this liberation resolution and we encourage all WA Regional Delegates and all WA nations to vote nay.

The region of RORMS has a troubling history that should give the Security Council pause. During this raid, regional natives have expressed homophobic, anti-Semitic, and pro-terrorist sentiments. Months prior to this raid, the FRA region Gay closed its embassy with RORMS for homophobia directed toward its regional citizens by the natives of RORMS. Whatever one may think of the tactics that The Black Riders are using in this raid, the Security Council is under no obligation to liberate a region with as despicable a history as RORMS has.

It should also be noted that the circumstances under which this liberation resolution was introduced were questionable to say the least. A liberation resolution that would have removed the password protection imposed upon The United Kingdom of Britain by the fascists of The Greater German Reich was abruptly removed by its UDL authors to clear the queue for this resolution. While Asgard refuses to vote aye on defender-authored liberation resolutions, we nevertheless find it reprehensible that the UDL prioritized the liberation of a region with as despicable a history as RORMS has over the liberation of a region being griefed by Nazis.

It is time -- in fact, long past due -- for the defender manipulation of the Security Council to end. Such manipulation has resulted in a longer griefing of TUKB by Nazis while the Security Council instead considers the liberation of a region with a history of virulent bigotry. That is a very good reason to vote nay on this liberation resolution as the first step in standing against defenders who would use the Security Council to their own ends rather than for the good of the interregional community.
Jagermeister

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Fischistan
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Founded: Oct 16, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Fischistan » Thu May 24, 2012 5:50 pm

That is a very good reason to vote nay on this liberation resolution as the first step in standing against defenders who would use the Security Council to their own ends rather than for the good of the interregional community.[/quote]
No it's not. A Liberation is a Liberation, regardless of wo authored it. And do you honestly expect a raider would write a Liberation?
Xavier D'Montagne
Fischistani Ambassador to the WA
Unibot II wrote:It's Carta. He CANNOT Fail. Only successes in reverse.
The Matthew Islands wrote:Knowledge is knowing the Tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad.
Anthony Delasanta wrote:its was not genocide it was ethnic cleansing...
Socorra wrote:A religion-free abortion thread is like a meat-free hamburger.
Help is on its Way: UDL
Never forget 11 September.
Never look off the edge of cliff on a segway.

11 September 1973, of course.

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Gest
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Founded: Oct 16, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Gest » Thu May 24, 2012 7:32 pm

Jagermeister wrote:Asgard is vehemently opposed to this liberation resolution and we encourage all WA Regional Delegates and all WA nations to vote nay.

The region of RORMS has a troubling history that should give the Security Council pause. During this raid, regional natives have expressed homophobic, anti-Semitic, and pro-terrorist sentiments.


That is really the main reason we stayed. The longest we usually stay is two weeks and we've never gone for a password before but these guys just kept putting their foots in their mouths with quotes like these

From the founder of RORMS, whose main nation was deleted before the raid happened,
http://liberal.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=1395506

Seriously, I cannot believe people think it is a-okay to say, “I support RL terrorists killing civilians and shooting US/NATO troops because I was raided". That is not justifiable under any context.

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Tim-Opolis
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Founded: Feb 17, 2010
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Tim-Opolis » Thu May 24, 2012 7:35 pm

Krankor wrote:I, Krankor, delegate of Farkistan, vote NAY on the liberation proposal.

The timeline here is curious. Talgud was elected delegate of RORMS back in April after a long residency. And yet he passworded the region just at the beginning of this week. Surely the natives of RORMS had ample opportunity to study Talgud, his sympathies and his past activities, as well as the suspicious spike in immigrating nations over this period. Is the purpose of this liberation to compensate for the RORMS natives' lack of research skills and poor judgment?

But since Talgud has now been overthrown, the entire proposal may be rendered moot.


Not overthrown. When one man runs out of regional influence, we usually have a back up man.

*waves*

I'm the back up man. Hexorg.
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Tim-Opolis
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Founded: Feb 17, 2010
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Tim-Opolis » Thu May 24, 2012 7:36 pm

Fischistan wrote:That is a very good reason to vote nay on this liberation resolution as the first step in standing against defenders who would use the Security Council to their own ends rather than for the good of the interregional community.

No it's not. A Liberation is a Liberation, regardless of wo authored it. And do you honestly expect a raider would write a Liberation?[/quote]

Depends. Do you consider Oh My Days a raider?
Author of SC#74, SC #203, SC #222, and SC #238 | Co-Author of SC#191
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[11:16:10] <@Koth> tim is a loose cannon cop on the edge who doesn't play by the rules

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Fischistan
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Founded: Oct 16, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Fischistan » Thu May 24, 2012 8:12 pm

Tim-Opolis wrote:
Fischistan wrote:That is a very good reason to vote nay on this liberation resolution as the first step in standing against defenders who would use the Security Council to their own ends rather than for the good of the interregional community.

No it's not. A Liberation is a Liberation, regardless of wo authored it. And do you honestly expect a raider would write a Liberation?


Depends. Do you consider Oh My Days a raider?[/quote]
I stand corrected.

And Gest, US soldiers shoot and bomb innocent civilians in Yemen and Pakistan.
Xavier D'Montagne
Fischistani Ambassador to the WA
Unibot II wrote:It's Carta. He CANNOT Fail. Only successes in reverse.
The Matthew Islands wrote:Knowledge is knowing the Tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad.
Anthony Delasanta wrote:its was not genocide it was ethnic cleansing...
Socorra wrote:A religion-free abortion thread is like a meat-free hamburger.
Help is on its Way: UDL
Never forget 11 September.
Never look off the edge of cliff on a segway.

11 September 1973, of course.

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Datavia
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Posts: 92
Founded: May 26, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby Datavia » Fri May 25, 2012 1:20 am

Jagermeister wrote:Whatever one may think of the tactics that The Black Riders are using in this raid, the Security Council is under no obligation to liberate a region with as despicable a history as RORMS has.

So, if an obnoxious person is mugged, it's OK for the police to step aside, right?

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Titiwu
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 7
Founded: Aug 08, 2006
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Titiwu » Fri May 25, 2012 1:28 am

So now raiding is
civil rights advocacy...
Pull the other one.

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Dutch Jericho
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 4
Founded: May 19, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Dutch Jericho » Fri May 25, 2012 4:04 am

Datavia wrote:
Jagermeister wrote:Whatever one may think of the tactics that The Black Riders are using in this raid, the Security Council is under no obligation to liberate a region with as despicable a history as RORMS has.

So, if an obnoxious person is mugged, it's OK for the police to step aside, right?

It's OK for them to take their time so the mugger can flee.

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Campinia
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Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Campinia » Fri May 25, 2012 4:15 am

Dutch Jericho wrote:
Datavia wrote:So, if an obnoxious person is mugged, it's OK for the police to step aside, right?

It's OK for them to take their time so the mugger can flee.

That's ridiculous and you know it.
Heeding the Call, One and For All: UDL


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Delegate Vinage
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Founded: Jan 21, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Delegate Vinage » Fri May 25, 2012 4:47 am

Campinia wrote:
Dutch Jericho wrote:It's OK for them to take their time so the mugger can flee.

That's ridiculous and you know it.


As is the idea of comparing raiding and defending to muggers and the police
Vinage V. Grey-Anumia
World Assembly Delegate &
Former President of Europeia


"The Delegate Wipes What The Region Spills"
"Between two groups of people who want to make inconsistent kinds of worlds, I see no remedy but force"

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Sacred Yggdrasil
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Founded: Apr 17, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Sacred Yggdrasil » Fri May 25, 2012 5:25 am

Fischistan wrote:No it's not. A Liberation is a Liberation, regardless of wo authored it. And do you honestly expect a raider would write a Liberation?

Are you serious? Besides Oh My Days, who has already been mentioned, there is a liberation proposal sitting in this forum right now authored by LKE. Ironically, it was authored after you decided to leave TUKB to be griefed by Nazis so that you could concentrate on liberating RORMS despite its appalling history.

A liberation is indeed a liberation, but authorship does matter. The UDL in general and you specifically have proven in recent days that your priorities in regard to liberations are skewed, to say the least. Given the poor judgment you exercised in leaving TUKB to be griefed by Nazis so the UDL could deal a blow to The Black Riders, why should anyone trust or reward that judgment by voting for this resolution? Why should the Security Council continue allowing itself to be manipulated by defenders who would use it for their own political aims rather than for the greater interregional good?
Last edited by Sacred Yggdrasil on Fri May 25, 2012 5:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Sualtam
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Founded: Apr 23, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Sualtam » Fri May 25, 2012 5:45 am

The high number of approvals on the TUKB proposal suggests they might have been put in the wrong order. Also isn't a bigger coalition likely to support a TUKB action?
"The reality is that the people that we represent are no longer going to be second-class citizens in their own country". Martin McGuinness.

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