[PASSED] A Decriminalization of Suicide

[Hiriaurtung Arororugul]

The threat of punishment for the immediate family is a powerful deterrent that actually lowers suicide rates. This is not a difficult concept for you to understand, is it?

Difficult indeed, because you fail psychology. More punishments, more bullying, more suicide rates.

No it doesn't work that way. Here, allow me to demonstrate.

Hiriaurtung Arororugul leads a young Aundotutunagirian man, the young man's parents, and a bear onto the stage. He hands the young man a potassium cyanide capsule and explains to him that he is about to be eaten alive by the bear. He further explains that the young man may, if he chooses, take the capsule and end his suffering but that doing so will result in both of his parents being fed to the bear as well. The young man is strapped to a chair, the bear is turned loose, and it immediately begins devouring the young man's lower legs. 20 minutes later it is over, the young man has been eaten alive(more or less), and the full and satisfied bear lays down and takes a nap.

Hiriaurtung Arororugul turns to the now deceased young man's parents.

Thank you, you may go now. I'm so sorry for your loss.

He then turns to the ambassador from New Form.

As you can see, this right-thinking young man choose to let himself be eaten alive rather than inflict suffering upon his loving family. In the future you would be wise not to challenge me on matters pertaining to psychology.

[Unibot II]

Conflicts with Dignified End of Life Choices...

Though if you want to repeal that resolution, that would be great.

MANDATING all WA Nations allow terminally-ill persons to end their lives in a humane and dignified manner through the voluntary administration of lethal medications, expressly prescribed by a health care provider for that purpose.

GA#54 is decriminalizing a much smaller gamit, active euthanasia for ill people. It does not prohibit suicide in general nor does it suggest that this allowance is the only allowance that can be made. You can see from cl.2 that the author narrows the resolution greatly:

The patient seeking to end to his/her own unbearable suffering through legally prescribed lethal drugs must be an Adult suffering from terminal illness.

It does not say a person need die by suicide via these legally prescribed lethal drugs; furthermore all of the wording, "patient", "seeking to end [..] suffering", further limits the purview of the resolution.

[Glen-Rhodes]

I probably should've quoted the passage I was referring to. This proposal can't grant member states the freedom to criminalize the assistance/aid of suicide, because Dignified End of Life Choices makes it legal insofar as we're concerned with terminally ill patients. Your last clause is worded too broadly.

[Unibot II]

I probably should've quoted the passage I was referring to. This proposal can't grant member states the freedom to criminalize the assistance/aid of suicide, because Dignified End of Life Choices makes it legal insofar as we're concerned with terminally ill patients. Your last clause is worded too broadly.

Ah, I see what you mean!

Clarifies that nothing in this act shall impact any freedom of member-nations to criminalize the assistance, aid or abetment of suicide.

Would this edit suffice? Or does it still suggest that member-nations have this freedom currently? Remember GA#54 still allows the criminalization of assisted suicide in some areas.

[Unibot II]

I've edited cl.2 to address the issue of suicide bombers and people who steal rope to hang themselves and all of those other colorful hypotheticals we were exposed to earlier. Any concerns?

[Urgench]

"Hhhm no, no and .. no." Eduard grumbled. "(1) Deterrence requires an agent to be rational... more likely than not a suicidal person is behaving and thinking irrationally and not calculating consequences properly, (2) It is possible for the signs of suicidal thoughts to be so small that a reasonable person may not be aware of the suffering of their loved one, your policy would have an innocent and reasonable person punished nonetheless for the purposes of using this innocent person as a "symbol" and the means of deterrence -- this violates just about any common judicial principle, (3) The last thing a grieving family needs is a fine or punishment when they're already suffering the loss of a family member,"

The General inhales a lungful of opium laced with Urgenchi Dew Drug.

You underestimate the effectiveness of terror employed against a captive population, Ambassador.

He exhales slowly, and speaks through the curtain of smoke.

Have you ever been to Aundotutunagir? Suicides are practically non-existent.

This is manifestly a lie, the spring tides which accompany the melting of the Arctic ice sheets around Golthaindroror are called colloquially "The Corpse-tide" in reference to the very many bodies of suicides who have sought the release of death rather than continue to live under Aundotutunagir's oppressive and psychotic regime.


We also wonder if the Noble General has yet tried the new Dew derivative Paxion TM? It is rather efficacious, and is designed for insufflation and becoming very popular with connoisseurs.



Yours,

[New Zaineia]

Would it be legal to employ perhaps a suicide tax, in which people who want to die pay a large fee and if they dont pay it, a fine is leveed upon their family. It seems like it ccould be a future issue

[Christian Democrats]

Unibot, thank you for making revisions. I now can support this proposal.

[Hiriaurtung Arororugul]

Would it be legal to employ perhaps a suicide tax, in which people who want to die pay a large fee and if they dont pay it, a fine is leveed upon their family. It seems like it ccould be a future issue

Yes a suicide tax can be a very effective deterrent. Misguided individuals often think to kill themselves and leave behind wealth for their survivors. However if the entire estate of anyone who commits or attempts suicide is forfeited to the State it takes away this incentive.

This is manifestly a lie, the spring tides which accompany the melting of the Arctic ice sheets around Golthaindroror are called colloquially "The Corpse-tide" in reference to the very many bodies of suicides who have sought the release of death rather than continue to live under Aundotutunagir's oppressive and psychotic regime.

Those are the corpses of Samoyeds who were trying to walk to Golthaindroror.

We also wonder if the Noble General has yet tried the new Dew derivative Paxion TM? It is rather efficacious, and is designed for insufflation and becoming very popular with connoisseurs.

No I have not, but I am intrigued! Do you have any, Noble Khan?

[Unibot II]

Would it be legal to employ perhaps a suicide tax, in which people who want to die pay a large fee and if they dont pay it, a fine is leveed upon their family. It seems like it ccould be a future issue

"That brings new meaning to this quotation..." Eduard mused.

The reason attempted suicide is illegal: The government can't tax you if you're dead. ~ Harry Chandrar

"I'll assume you mean that the tax would be levied against the dead person's assets, the state as a creditor would thus require the taxed funds be distributed to the state. It violates most standards of justice to have an innocent person be indebted to another due to a relative's failure to pay its debts. If the deceased's estate is insufficient to cover the debt, it is a common (and often exploited) misconception that the family must pay the debt anyway, " Eduard explained.

"Nonetheless, a tax would violate c.3 and I would defend the merit of this violation. The state should not standby idly as someone attempts suicide, merely asking for money before one does so... death is not a bouncy-castle and the state is not a carny. The motivations deserve treatment and therapy," Eduard argued.

[Friedensangebot]

"What if the suicidée does not have any relatives? Who would you tax then? The people?"

[Unibot II]

"To clarify I've added c.1b. Taxation on suicide or attempted suicide will be illegal if this resolution is passed. However, for your information, the debt would simply go unpaid under common principles of justice (in the case of the creditor being the state)." Eduard explained.

"Hhhm no, no and .. no." Eduard grumbled. "(1) Deterrence requires an agent to be rational... more likely than not a suicidal person is behaving and thinking irrationally and not calculating consequences properly, (2) It is possible for the signs of suicidal thoughts to be so small that a reasonable person may not be aware of the suffering of their loved one, your policy would have an innocent and reasonable person punished nonetheless for the purposes of using this innocent person as a "symbol" and the means of deterrence -- this violates just about any common judicial principle, (3) The last thing a grieving family needs is a fine or punishment when they're already suffering the loss of a family member,"

The General inhales a lungful of opium laced with Urgenchi Dew Drug.

You underestimate the effectiveness of terror employed against a captive population, Ambassador.

He exhales slowly, and speaks through the curtain of smoke.

Have you ever been to Aundotutunagir? Suicides are practically non-existent.

Eduard raised an eyebrow, "*Been* to Aundotutunagir!? I swear a part of me *died* in Aundotutunagir. It's a depressing place, General,"

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

Eduard raised an eyebrow, "*Been* to Aundotutunagir!? I swear a part of me *died* in Aundotutunagir. It's a depressing place, General,"

So, in essence, part of you has committed suicide, deeming this entire self-righteous operation yet another shameless display of Unibotian hypocrisy?

*shakes head*

Typical.

[Darenjo]

Full support given. It's really a wonder we didn't think of this before.

[Unibot II]

Eduard raised an eyebrow, "*Been* to Aundotutunagir!? I swear a part of me *died* in Aundotutunagir. It's a depressing place, General,"

So, in essence, part of you has committed suicide, deeming this entire self-righteous operation yet another shameless display of Unibotian hypocrisy?

*shakes head*

Typical.

"Whether I have a history with suicide is not relevant to whether those who attempt suicide should be jailed or fined or otherwise treated like criminals," Eduard said, blowing obnoxious smoke rings into the Kennyite's face.

[Pryssilvalia]

Okay, so some of you - instead of trying to help a man who failed to take his own life, want to punish him and make him even more miserable instead? Or perhaps, God forbid, if he succeeds, you want to punish his family, even though his family might not even have anything to do with the suicide, who might even be in extreme grief because of the loss of a close one? Do you even know what "justice" means? Do you have a heart? The deterrent argument generally doesn't work. Those who try to commit suicide are often already alienated from his own family, and generally couldn't care any less if he gets punished in case he fails.

[The Republic of Minecraftia (Ancient)]

The Republic of The Republic of Minecraftia supports this proposal.

[Hiriaurtung Arororugul]

Another way of looking at this would be to say that since suicide involves the taking of life then it is a form of murder, or at least the first cousin of murder. Since only the State has the legal authority to take life, this is an usurpation of state authority.

[Pryssilvalia]

Another way of looking at this would be to say that since suicide involves the taking of life then it is a form of murder, or at least the first cousin of murder. Since only the State has the legal authority to take life, this is an usurpation of state authority.

Since when has the state had the "legal authority" to murder? But since you are obviously some kind of "government is God" nut, I'm not expecting any logical answer.

Also, the government officials have legal authority to eat, therefore if people eat, they are usurping the state authority. Well argued, ambassador.

[Hiriaurtung Arororugul]

Another way of looking at this would be to say that since suicide involves the taking of life then it is a form of murder, or at least the first cousin of murder. Since only the State has the legal authority to take life, this is an usurpation of state authority.

Since when has the state had the "legal authority" to murder? But since you are obviously some kind of "government is God" nut, I'm not expecting any logical answer.

The State has the power and the authority to wage war. The State has the power and the authority to execute criminals. Do any other persons or entities have this authority? Only the State can legally take a life.

[Pryssilvalia]

Since when has the state had the "legal authority" to murder? But since you are obviously some kind of "government is God" nut, I'm not expecting any logical answer.

The State has the power and the authority to wage war. The State has the power and the authority to execute criminals. Do any other persons or entities have this authority? Only the State can legally take a life.

The State also has the authority to sneeze and cough - does that mean that the citizens have no authority to sneeze and cough? *cough* - oh no~~~, I've just usurped the state's authority.

[Quelesh]

You have my support in this, Unibot. Carry on.

[Hiriaurtung Arororugul]

The State has the power and the authority to wage war. The State has the power and the authority to execute criminals. Do any other persons or entities have this authority? Only the State can legally take a life.

The State also has the authority to sneeze and cough - does that mean that the citizens have no authority to sneeze and cough? *cough* - oh no~~~, I've just usurped the state's authority.

Oh now surely you can come up with a better argument than that.

ONLY the State has the authority to take a life. This has nothing to do with coughing or sneezing. Are you being intentionally obtuse? Or do you really think you made a clever analogy?

[Quelesh]

ONLY the State has the authority to take a life.

The state has the ability to take a life, but ability does not confer authority.

[Alqania]

"To clarify I've added c.1b. Taxation on suicide or attempted suicide will be illegal if this resolution is passed."

"With all due respect, Your Excellency, I am afraid a WA ban on suicide taxation would contradict Resolution #17 WA General Fund, specifically:"

8. Affirms the right of member nations to maintain full authority over domestic taxation policies, barring those that may include unfair discriminatory practices;