[PASSED] A Decriminalization of Suicide

[The Eternal Kawaii]

In the Name of the Eternal Kawaii, may the Cute One be praised

We stand utterly opposed to this proposal. The esteemed representative of Unibot clearly does not understand the moral imperative to condemn suicide. Suicidal behavior is not merely acting upon some disorder of the mind. It is an expression of contempt toward all those who depend upon the would-be suicide--their families, their neighbors, their nation. It is an act of selfishness, cowardice, and despair--all insults against one's Creator and one's fellow being.

All of us here are dependent upon one another in some fashion; that is the nature of society. Each of us has a role to play in the drama of life. By what right, then, do any of us have to remove ourselves from that drama, when there are still those who need us?

We agree that those who would take their own lives need help, truly deserve it, and should not be denied that help. But a crime committed while in a disordered state of mind is still a crime. Leniency is called for, but we should not fall into the trap of confusing leniency toward the self-destructive with accepting some "right" to self-destruction. Accepting the existence of such a "right" sends a horrible message to the would-be suicide: that we do not care enough about their lives to stop them from throwing those lives away, even if it requires bringing the force of law against them.

[Black Marne]

You have Black Marne's support. However, I would like to note how funny it is that in some nations, the penalty for attempted suicide is death.

-The New Argonian Homeland of Black Marne

[Edlichbury]

In full support, and likely lobbying for it in region. Finally have a working WA puppet so I'll be returning to voting now.

[Unibot II]

We stand utterly opposed to this proposal. The esteemed representative of Unibot clearly does not understand the moral imperative to condemn suicide. Suicidal behavior is not merely acting upon some disorder of the mind. It is an expression of contempt toward all those who depend upon the would-be suicide--their families, their neighbors, their nation. It is an act of selfishness, cowardice, and despair--all insults against one's Creator and one's fellow being.

"Fellow human beings should ultimately not be so fragile to take the suicide of another human being as an expression of contempt against them, suicidal inclinations are simply a unfortunate state of mind. In other words, that's an extremely egocentric view of suicide. Furthermore, the standard scholastic rejection of religious dogma that suggests that life is a "gift" from a creator and suicide is an insult to the giver is three-fold: (1) a gift is ultimately owned by the given not the giver.. or else it isn't a gift at all, the giver should have no say in how the given uses the gift, (2) in the case of life, the gift to the given is the given itself, so logically if the giver was going to be insulted by the given's rejection of the gift he should not have provided the given with self-autonomy, (3) the given had no choice in whether they received their gift ergo they ought not to expect a self-autonomous being to respect this gift when it is against their own will. For example, when my former wife was preparing for our wedding, her mother provided this ... horrid, absolutely horrid wedding dressing that her grandmother had worn on her wedding day. My fiancee never explicitly accepted the dress but her mother continued to assume the archaic dress would be worn, when it was not, her mother was insulted to the n^th degree... but she should not have expected a "gift" imposed without consent against an agent possessing free will to be absolutely respected, " explained Eduard.

however some jurisidictions go as far as to penalize familes whose children die by suicide to create a deterrent to the suicidal person not to attempt suicide (since their mom and pop could be convicted).

The threat of punishment for the immediate family is a powerful deterrent that actually lowers suicide rates. This is not a difficult concept for you to understand, is it?

"Hhhm no, no and .. no." Eduard grumbled. "(1) Deterrence requires an agent to be rational... more likely than not a suicidal person is behaving and thinking irrationally and not calculating consequences properly, (2) It is possible for the signs of suicidal thoughts to be so small that a reasonable person may not be aware of the suffering of their loved one, your policy would have an innocent and reasonable person punished nonetheless for the purposes of using this innocent person as a "symbol" and the means of deterrence -- this violates just about any common judicial principle, (3) The last thing a grieving family needs is a fine or punishment when they're already suffering the loss of a family member,"

[Christian Democrats]

AGAINST. There could be unintended consequences of this proposal. For example, attempting and failing to commit suicide by cop is a criminal offense in Christian Democrats, attempting and failing to commit a suicide bombing is a criminal offense in Christian Democrats, etc.

[Hiriaurtung Arororugul]

The threat of punishment for the immediate family is a powerful deterrent that actually lowers suicide rates. This is not a difficult concept for you to understand, is it?

"Hhhm no, no and .. no." Eduard grumbled. "(1) Deterrence requires an agent to be rational... more likely than not a suicidal person is behaving and thinking irrationally and not calculating consequences properly, (2) It is possible for the signs of suicidal thoughts to be so small that a reasonable person may not be aware of the suffering of their loved one, your policy would have an innocent and reasonable person punished nonetheless for the purposes of using this innocent person as a "symbol" and the means of deterrence -- this violates just about any common judicial principle, (3) The last thing a grieving family needs is a fine or punishment when they're already suffering the loss of a family member,"

The General inhales a lungful of opium laced with Urgenchi Dew Drug.

You underestimate the effectiveness of terror employed against a captive population, Ambassador.

He exhales slowly, and speaks through the curtain of smoke.

Have you ever been to Aundotutunagir? Suicides are practically non-existent.

[Unibot II]

AGAINST. There could be unintended consequences of this proposal. For example, attempting and failing to commit suicide by cop is a criminal offense in Christian Democrats, attempting and failing to commit a suicide bombing is a criminal offense in Christian Democrats, etc.

But wouldn't all of these offenses be covered in offences other than suicide? For example, you'd have to elicit a response from a cop by committing a offense and the actual act of committing a suicide bombing is a public danger to others...

If someone goes out to an empty field, strapped with explosives.. nobody around... this sort of defeats the purpose of laws on suicide bombing. Thus the offense is independent of the act of suicide.

[Pryssilvalia]

If the attempt to suicide of a person results in damage to public/private properties, be they physical or intangible properties like reputation and such, or if it results in harm to other individuals, will the state/private institution/harmed individuals still have the right to sue his/her estate (or him/herself if the attempt is unsuccessful)?

[Dizyntk]

AGAINST. There could be unintended consequences of this proposal. For example, attempting and failing to commit suicide by cop is a criminal offense in Christian Democrats, attempting and failing to commit a suicide bombing is a criminal offense in Christian Democrats, etc.

But wouldn't all of these offenses be covered in offences other than suicide? For example, you'd have to elicit a response from a cop by committing a offense and the actual act of committing a suicide bombing is a public danger to others...

If someone goes out to an empty field, strapped with explosives.. nobody around... this sort of defeats the purpose of laws on suicide bombing. Thus the offense is independent of the act of suicide.

"Unless, of course, the possession of explosives was illegal in the first place. This is exactly the point I was trying to make with my earlier request about Clause 2 where I said,"

"The Dizyntk see no reason to oppose this proposal. We do, however, have a suggestion. Clause 2 should be clarified that the lack of treatment as a criminal offender is only applicable so long as no other laws are being violated or no other beings were being threatened in the course of said suicide attempt."

[New Form]

Simple psychology: Pain, threats and punishment increase suicide rates. Bringing the force of law upon the suicidal is an easy motivator for suicide, the same mechanism why bullying encourages suicide. We therefore agree with the decriminalization of suicide, and we will not be moved away from this position.

And any or all criminalization is bound to fail, since during the punishment of suicidal behaviour, death still remains there to serve as an escape and reinforcer of suicidal behaviour, and the suicidal mind is punished not for attempting suicide or loving death, but for getting caught. Also, what's really the point of punishment? It's easy to say "they have brought the death penalty onto themselves".

[Pryssilvalia]

In the Name of the Eternal Kawaii, may the Cute One be praised

We stand utterly opposed to this proposal. The esteemed representative of Unibot clearly does not understand the moral imperative to condemn suicide. Suicidal behavior is not merely acting upon some disorder of the mind. It is an expression of contempt toward all those who depend upon the would-be suicide--their families, their neighbors, their nation. It is an act of selfishness, cowardice, and despair--all insults against one's Creator and one's fellow being.

All of us here are dependent upon one another in some fashion; that is the nature of society. Each of us has a role to play in the drama of life. By what right, then, do any of us have to remove ourselves from that drama, when there are still those who need us?

We agree that those who would take their own lives need help, truly deserve it, and should not be denied that help. But a crime committed while in a disordered state of mind is still a crime. Leniency is called for, but we should not fall into the trap of confusing leniency toward the self-destructive with accepting some "right" to self-destruction. Accepting the existence of such a "right" sends a horrible message to the would-be suicide: that we do not care enough about their lives to stop them from throwing those lives away, even if it requires bringing the force of law against them.

It is precisely this view that has left many people who consider suicide even more alone and depressed. The view that suicide victim is either selfish, or a coward is an entirely harmful and unjustified view. To take one's own life is difficult - do not see it as merely an attempt to get attention or the like. Please, when you say something like this, consider what kind of feelings it will create in potential suicide victims. True, some might realize that what they are doing is selfish, but those (a significant number, mind you) who commit suicide for different reasons (and there are many, many reasons, some might even be justified somewhat) will tend to be even more depressed and feel even more worthless.

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

You have Black Marne's support. However, I would like to note how funny it is that in some nations, the penalty for attempted suicide is death.

Hear hear! We support this proposal. However, we can not condone things like attempting suicide: generally stupid behavior.

[Michael VII]

Wholeheartedly against this proposal, I hope it fails. Have a nice life.

[Pryssilvalia]

You have Black Marne's support. However, I would like to note how funny it is that in some nations, the penalty for attempted suicide is death.

Hear hear! We support this proposal. However, we can not condone things like attempting suicide: generally stupid behavior.

Most have serious depression, mind you. And it's not just all in the head, depressed individuals tend to be chemically imbalanced.

[New Form]

however some jurisidictions go as far as to penalize familes whose children die by suicide to create a deterrent to the suicidal person not to attempt suicide (since their mom and pop could be convicted).

The threat of punishment for the immediate family is a powerful deterrent that actually lowers suicide rates. This is not a difficult concept for you to understand, is it?

Difficult indeed, because you fail psychology. More punishments, more bullying, more suicide rates.

[New Form]

In the Name of the Eternal Kawaii, may the Cute One be praised

We stand utterly opposed to this proposal. The esteemed representative of Unibot clearly does not understand the moral imperative to condemn suicide. Suicidal behavior is not merely acting upon some disorder of the mind. It is an expression of contempt toward all those who depend upon the would-be suicide--their families, their neighbors, their nation. It is an act of selfishness, cowardice, and despair--all insults against one's Creator and one's fellow being.

All of us here are dependent upon one another in some fashion; that is the nature of society. Each of us has a role to play in the drama of life. By what right, then, do any of us have to remove ourselves from that drama, when there are still those who need us?

We agree that those who would take their own lives need help, truly deserve it, and should not be denied that help. But a crime committed while in a disordered state of mind is still a crime. Leniency is called for, but we should not fall into the trap of confusing leniency toward the self-destructive with accepting some "right" to self-destruction. Accepting the existence of such a "right" sends a horrible message to the would-be suicide: that we do not care enough about their lives to stop them from throwing those lives away, even if it requires bringing the force of law against them.

[sarcasm]How cute.[/sarcasm]

[Eternal Yerushalayim]

We hope that this does not cover any other crimes committed in the process of attempting suicide, say taking a child with oneself while jumping off buildings?

[Galadria]

suicide is natural selection... it shall keep population in check. shouldn't be criminal.

[Pryssilvalia]

suicide is natural selection... it shall keep population in check. shouldn't be criminal.

Perhaps natural selection should kill you off as well.

[Galadria]

suicide is natural selection... it shall keep population in check. shouldn't be criminal.

Perhaps natural selection should kill you off as well.

no thank you. i rebuke your proposal.

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

The threat of punishment for the immediate family is a powerful deterrent that actually lowers suicide rates. This is not a difficult concept for you to understand, is it?

Difficult indeed, because you fail psychology. More punishments, more bullying, more suicide rates.

Heh, I must fail at it too. How exactly does punishing the immediate family result in more bullying?

[New Form]

Difficult indeed, because you fail psychology. More punishments, more bullying, more suicide rates.

Heh, I must fail at it too. How exactly does punishing the immediate family result in more bullying?

We were using it as an analogy. You see, bringing upon the force of law upon the suicidal have just the same effect as bullying a school nerd to suicide. Will only make them hate the State more, will only make them see death as a reinforcement/escape, and actually do it.

[New Form]

suicide is natural selection... it shall keep population in check. shouldn't be criminal.

Of course. Added benefits.

[Glen-Rhodes]

Conflicts with Dignified End of Life Choices...

Though if you want to repeal that resolution, that would be great.

[Liberal TurtleShroom]

HOLY REPUBLIC OF TURTLESHROOM
LOOPHOLE DEVIL'S CONGREGATE DELEGATE
AS LOCATED IN LIBERAL TURTLESHROOM

IN REGARDS:

The decriminalization of suicide will remove a deterrence to commit suicide. While the notion of jail means nothing to those willing to send their immortal soul to Hell- (it is the belief of most TurtleShroomer theoligans that terminating one's life is terminating God's plan for them and is unforgivable) -the criminalization of suicide would permit involuntary institutionalization.

In TurtleShroom, those who are caught attempting to commit suicide are institutionalized in one of TurtleShroom's many mental hospitals and mental asylums, where they are cared for, loved, and protected until their tendancies are renounced and cured.
We fear that the decriminalization of suicide would harm the ability of the state to save both the lives and souls of her citizenry when they feel they are no longer worth existing.
Suicide is not a crime in the usual sense of the word. Suicidal creatures need love and help, not punishment.

The delegation, therefore, needs clarification.
Will the decriminalization of suicide remove the ability of the state to involuntarily institutionalize a creature to a mental hospital?



Signed,
-All of us.