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[PASSED] Repeal "Commend Mikeswill"

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Going Postal
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Ex-Nation

Postby Going Postal » Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:51 am

Blah Blah Blah Mike has invader ties Blah Blah Blah invaders don't deserve commends Blah Blah Blah we will use a puppet nation to make this repeal work Blah Blah Blah.

Typical.

Edit: But my original resolution was kind of... weak. :P Oh well. Sprinkles on the cake!
Last edited by Going Postal on Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Hippy flowergirls
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Ex-Nation

Postby Hippy flowergirls » Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:01 am

Fully support!!

Mikeswill is only able to be delegate for so long because he ejects nations when they received too many endorsements. This, coupled with the fact that no elections are ever held in NationStates, makes his "democratic" leadership a farce.

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Crushing Our Enemies
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Postby Crushing Our Enemies » Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:29 am

I am certain that if a legitimate resident of Nationstates challenged Mikeswill for the delegacy, he would leave it to the natives to decide who the better candidate was. Mikeswill ejects nations that try to take the delegacy by force, using outside influences. To my knowledge, there has never been an initiative by the natives of Nationstates to remove Mikeswill from power. Not every region needs a regular election process. How many times was Kandarin elected over his multi-year delegacy of the Rejected Realms?

I am convinced that the sole basis of this repeal is that it is believed that Mikeswill has friends in the raider community.
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Neo Nibu
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Postby Neo Nibu » Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:09 pm

I have to say I strongly disagree with this proposal.

First off I don't think just because there hasn't been formal elections this should imply that Mikeswill is some sort of Tyrant. NS is a game, not RL, so just because one region choose to establish an elaborate democratic government and another doesn't, doesn't automatically mean one is morally better than another. Some of us prefer a more laid back region without all the politics of a regional government. It is a choice one makes when choosing what type of region to join.

Mikeswill has carried the region Nationstates, truly made it into what it is today. I can't image the region without him, his dedication to the region is both impressive and worthy of his commendation. Not to mention that the natives, supposedly suppressed, clearly support Mikeswill, you can read it on there RMB. I bet you had there been formal elections Mikeswill would be elected.

Now as for his rumored raider ties, I can't speak on first hand knowledge, but this seems to just be a way of calling on the boogy man, this resolution lacking a real reason to repeal the commendation, calls on making it a raider/defender issue, making use of the negative associations of raiders.

Of course one should point out he is Delegate, his WA nation has been Delegate of the region NS forever basically, so thus his WA nation couldn't have been involved in raiding. So calling someone a raider who has never raider is silly. Maybe he has ties through a NS friend who has raided, but if you've played this GAME, long enough like Mikeswill, I bet you'll find you have NS friends on both sides of the fence.
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Unibot II
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Ex-Nation

Postby Unibot II » Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:23 pm

Neo Nibu wrote:I have to say I strongly disagree with this proposal.

First off I don't think just because there hasn't been formal elections this should imply that Mikeswill is some sort of Tyrant. NS is a game, not RL, so just because one region choose to establish an elaborate democratic government and another doesn't, doesn't automatically mean one is morally better than another. Some of us prefer a more laid back region without all the politics of a regional government. It is a choice one makes when choosing what type of region to join.

Mikeswill has carried the region Nationstates, truly made it into what it is today. I can't image the region without him, his dedication to the region is both impressive and worthy of his commendation. Not to mention that the natives, supposedly suppressed, clearly support Mikeswill, you can read it on there RMB. I bet you had there been formal elections Mikeswill would be elected.

Now as for his rumored raider ties, I can't speak on first hand knowledge, but this seems to just be a way of calling on the boogy man, this resolution lacking a real reason to repeal the commendation, calls on making it a raider/defender issue, making use of the negative associations of raiders.

Of course one should point out he is Delegate, his WA nation has been Delegate of the region NS forever basically, so thus his WA nation couldn't have been involved in raiding. So calling someone a raider who has never raider is silly. Maybe he has ties through a NS friend who has raided, but if you've played this GAME, long enough like Mikeswill, I bet you'll find you have NS friends on both sides of the fence.


I think the big kicker is more that he used to vote against every commendation, condemnation and liberation because the SC is ebil... and then changed his tune when he was commended.
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Southern Bellz
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Postby Southern Bellz » Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:40 pm

I can't believe you are making the case because someone had difficulty staying impartial in their own resolution, that undoes their whole body of work.

We are nations run by people, perfection should not be required to keep your WASC award.

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Unibot II
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Postby Unibot II » Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:42 pm

Southern Bellz wrote:I can't believe you are making the case because someone had difficulty staying impartial in their own resolution, that undoes their whole body of work.

We are nations run by people, perfection should not be required to keep your WASC award.





Mikeswill wrote:Commendation Resolutions are Popularity Contests and have no Business in the Affairs of The World Assembly. [...]


Mikeswill wrote:These Condemn & Commend Resolutions are mostly a popularity contest and a waste of the World Assembly’s time. It is not the Business of the World Assembly to Honour Nations. The WA is not a Beauty Contest. We would ignore these Resolutions were it not for the ridiculous precedent these Resolutions present.


Mikeswill wrote:Again: These Condemn & Commend Resolutions are mostly a popularity contest and a waste of the World Assembly’s time. Although Todd McCloud has worn numerous masks as a Raider, Defender, and Delegate, it is not the Business of the World Assembly to Honour Nations. The WA is not a Beauty Contest.


And my personal favorite:

Mikeswill wrote:If a Region can not defend itself, too bad! The leadership should have been responsible. These SC Resolutions tilt the balance to Elitist who determine what is a Raid and what is Liberation by manipulating the Rules. It is like playing with a brat who takes away the toys when the outcome goes against his bias. The only security I have in my Region aside from Endorsements is the RIGHT as Delegate to Password my Region against any threat. If this RIGHT is at the whim of the SC then have the game makers remove all password abilities across the board thereby removing this continued farce of hypocrisy.


Mikeswill's great accomplishment in NS is he's been delegate of a region for a long time... and he uses these bragging rights to justify a "sink or swim" model for other NationStates regions... going as far as to oppose the Security Council because it intervenes in this Darwinian process which I'm sure he views as beautiful and natural. This is completely contrary to the Security Council's views, my views .. and just about anyone who has been victim to a region griefer.

And yes, it is ridiculously tasteless to vote against all commendations, diminish the award as a beauty contest for other nominees.. then pick up the award himself.

Mikeswill's contributions are not "great", reviewing past nominees (e.g., Kandy, Goober, Nai, Todd, Ballo).. you can see how they've affected NS.. then flip to Mikeswill's statistic, he's been delegate for a long time... plus he's completely disregarded the rights of native communities and protested the Security Council for years... and you get a lameduck nominee.
Last edited by Unibot II on Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Crushing Our Enemies
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Postby Crushing Our Enemies » Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:51 pm

I just don't think this resolution should pass while the Believing and Identifying clauses exist. They are false and misleading.
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Southern Bellz
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Postby Southern Bellz » Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:19 pm

So now if you don't agree with the intervention the WASC does, you don't deserve credit for what you have done? To an extent, I agree with everything Mikeswill has said in all of the quotes. The WASC C&C are a popularity contest. The WASC does have the power to violate regional sovereignty.

His last quote is 100% correct. You may not agree with it, because you built your entire NS word view on not agreeing with it. Regional security is the role of the regional government. If they fail to do so, the fault lies with the government. I took my blame for failing to protect TSP, but I also did what I had to do to get my region back. At no point did I complain that what happened to TSP was not fair, because it was fair. Did it suck? Yes, but it doesn't change that fact that at that point Sedge played the game better than I did.

All of the people you listed aren't near the level of Mikeswill, in my eyes. I think more than anything it is impressive to be a successful renegade in this game, it's what makes this game interesting. If you can't see what he is done, it is simply because you choose to be blind. He has built a very unique, successful, neutral region. On top of it, if he is Highlander 1, he has maintained another very interesting region with IDF. That is his legacy, and by taking this away you are pretty much proving that people can not be commended without being a popular figure, and is good at fitting in a box.

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The Jedi
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Postby The Jedi » Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:38 pm

Have any of you been dedicated enough to even participate fully in a region for that many years? The majority of the people I see here can't even maintain their attention on a project for even one year. You constantly hop from place to place, starting new communities and leaving old ones to rot. Serving as leader of a region of at least moderate size for that length of time, regardless of how you got the power, shows a dedication to the game, though that alone is not enough to be commendable. In this case, it is his status as number 1 that puts him over the edge, in my opinion.

While I can appreciate the irony in commending a nation that has been hostile to the SC, that is no reason for it not to happen. If acting hypocritical and self-centered is the charge, I defy any one of you to claim you are not guilty of the same crime. If I need to, I will find examples.

As for the first clauses, I'm not sure when it became news that Mike was Highlander. It's not exactly been a secret. Yes, Highlander has been a propaganda machine. Haven't we all, at one point in time. (The answer to that question is "yes".)In fact, it seems like the only point of this resolution is to make sure everybody knows that fact. Well done - now they know. Can we move on?

A few more points:

The WA has always been a giant [CENSORED], and the SC is no exception. That doesn't mean I would oppose a commendation if it came my way, and neither would most of you. NewTexas is another story.

Speaking of which, do I think NewTexas is more deserving of commendation than Mikeswill? Of course.

Should the original commendation have been better written? Certainly.

But do I think we should pass this repeal? No, I don't. There is still plenty of reason to commend Mikeswill, and the original commendation speaks to that.

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Unibot II
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Postby Unibot II » Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:09 pm

Southern Bellz wrote:His last quote is 100% correct. You may not agree with it, because you built your entire NS word view on not agreeing with it. Regional security is the role of the regional government. If they fail to do so, the fault lies with the government. I took my blame for failing to protect TSP, but I also did what I had to do to get my region back. At no point did I complain that what happened to TSP was not fair, because it was fair. Did it suck? Yes, but it doesn't change that fact that at that point Sedge played the game better than I did.


So you're allowed to do what you can to get your region back... but the victims of Macedon raid in Belgium, they're not supposed to do what they can to get their region back?
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A mean old man
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Postby A mean old man » Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:43 pm

The Jedi wrote:While I can appreciate the irony in commending a nation that has been hostile to the SC, that is no reason for it not to happen. If acting hypocritical and self-centered is the charge, I defy any one of you to claim you are not guilty of the same crime. If I need to, I will find examples.


I'm sure all of us are guilty of hypocrisy and of being self-centered on certain occasions, though not to the same degree that Mikeswill has been; Mikeswill had the option to reject his commendations, or at least to remain publicly neutral towards them, but he sacrificed what he supposedly believed in for what should have been, in his eyes, an empty honor from a despicable institution. I honestly don't see why he should have cared about being commended or should care now about retaining his commendation if he actually believes what he has said about the SC and the people who use it.

It was his choice to set himself up for this kind of ridicule. He had the option to be true to his word or to betray it while still casting everyone else who used the SC under the bus. He chose the latter. He should have expected it to come back to bite him.

Note that the original resolution cites Mikeswill's "dedicated service to the World Assembly." If you look at what has actually happened over the years, I wouldn't say he has done the WA much of a great service.

As for the first clauses, I'm not sure when it became news that Mike was Highlander. It's not exactly been a secret. Yes, Highlander has been a propaganda machine. Haven't we all, at one point in time. (The answer to that question is "yes".)In fact, it seems like the only point of this resolution is to make sure everybody knows that fact. Well done - now they know. Can we move on?


No; this fact is hard evidence of his invader connections. Without it that point would be moot. If I hadn't added this detail, you same people would be attacking me for failing to connect him to invaders.

[EDIT: I'd like to thank Wordy for providing this piece of information, as it was originally in her draft of the repeal. I wasn't aware of it when I wrote mine and it would have been harder to do this had I not been made aware of it before submitting the proposal.]

The WA has always been a giant [CENSORED], and the SC is no exception. That doesn't mean I would oppose a commendation if it came my way, and neither would most of you. NewTexas is another story.


I have in the past because I have had unpleasant experiences with them, but I would not oppose one because of general principle, and neither would many others here. Now, if you actually believe that the WA has always been a giant load of horse shit or whatever was removed from that post, I'd expect to see you react differently than I would or at least contain yourself when/if you were the target of a WASC commendation.

But do I think we should pass this repeal? No, I don't. There is still plenty of reason to commend Mikeswill, and the original commendation speaks to that.


I disagree. The original commendation is weak and vague, and GP himself has admitted that fact. The text matters, as it is what is set in stone as the game's unofficial "history." If it is lame or inaccurate, it shouldn't be allowed to stand. The intent is not the only thing in the WA that matters.

Further addressing the idea of Mikeswill being commendable for playing "smart:" honestly, do you really believe that someone who claims to be in league with the people who destroy regions just like his own in order to avoid having his own demolished is deserving of a commendation? Further, is he deserving of a commendation by a body that tends to condemn those who destroy regions and commend those who preserve them? Mikeswill rejoices when regions just like the one he owns are torn down - karma hasn't come back to get him yet in-game, but this ironic disposition should not be ignored by the WASC.

That's not an anti-invader argument - more of an appeal to an average person's sense of justice.
Last edited by A mean old man on Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
A: SC#16 - Repeal "Liberate The Security Council"
A: SC#26 - Commend The Joint Systems Alliance
A: SC#30 - Commend 10000 Islands
A: SC#37 - Condemn NAZI EUROPE
A: SC#38 - Repeal "Condemn NAZI EUROPE"
A: GA#149 - On Expiration Dates
C: SC#58 - Repeal "Commend Sedgistan"
A: SC#62 - Repeal "Condemn Swarmlandia"
C: SC#63 - Commend Ballotonia
A: SC#65 - Condemn Punk Reloaded
C: GA#163 - Repeal "Law of the Sea"
A: SC#72 - Repeal "Commend Mikeswill"
C: SC#74 - Condemn Lone Wolves United
C: SC#76 - Repeal "Condemn Thatcherton"
A: SC#81 - Repeal "Condemn Anthony Delasanta"
C: SC#83 - Condemn Automagfreek
C: SC#84 - Repeal "Liberate Islam"
C: SC#111 - Commend Krulltopia ← please forget

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Warzone Codger
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Postby Warzone Codger » Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:59 pm

I am a great believer in Gameplay-Multiple Personalities (We really need a catchy standard name for that).

So you've outed Mikeswill as Highlander1. Is there any connection those two personalities are connected at all, rather than the OOC player playing two characters that have no interaction at all?

I have mellowed since and could accept Sedge=Dev or in R4 speak "Dev is a puppet state of Sedge". Is there anything here that shows this is the case here.
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A mean old man
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Postby A mean old man » Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:04 pm

Warzone Codger wrote:
I am a great believer in Gameplay-Multiple Personalities (We really need a catchy standard name for that).

So you've outed Mikeswill as Highlander1. Is there any connection those two personalities are connected at all, rather than the OOC player playing two characters that have no interaction at all?

I have mellowed since and could accept Sedge=Dev or in R4 speak "Dev is a puppet state of Sedge". Is there anything here that shows this is the case here.


I don't quite understand this question. It sounds like you're interested in the "characters" of Mikeswill and The Highlander being connected in a roleplayed sense. This is the world of gameplay, where people, not characters, matter, and Mikeswill and The Highlander are the same person.

Are you suggesting that Mikeswill/TH1 has some form of insanity that leads him to believe he is two different people, and that one of these people controls Mikeswill and that the other controlls TH1?
:p
A: SC#16 - Repeal "Liberate The Security Council"
A: SC#26 - Commend The Joint Systems Alliance
A: SC#30 - Commend 10000 Islands
A: SC#37 - Condemn NAZI EUROPE
A: SC#38 - Repeal "Condemn NAZI EUROPE"
A: GA#149 - On Expiration Dates
C: SC#58 - Repeal "Commend Sedgistan"
A: SC#62 - Repeal "Condemn Swarmlandia"
C: SC#63 - Commend Ballotonia
A: SC#65 - Condemn Punk Reloaded
C: GA#163 - Repeal "Law of the Sea"
A: SC#72 - Repeal "Commend Mikeswill"
C: SC#74 - Condemn Lone Wolves United
C: SC#76 - Repeal "Condemn Thatcherton"
A: SC#81 - Repeal "Condemn Anthony Delasanta"
C: SC#83 - Condemn Automagfreek
C: SC#84 - Repeal "Liberate Islam"
C: SC#111 - Commend Krulltopia ← please forget

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Neo Nibu
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Postby Neo Nibu » Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:25 pm

He's saying that Mikeswill's role as Delegate and Highlander as a raider are independent from each other. If he is Highlander or not Highlander, either way it doesn't change his role as Delegate. Doesn't make him any less an advocate of his region Nastionstates, or change what he has done there.

Plus he has been delegate forever, so he's never actually raided. >_>
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Postby Mikeswill » Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:26 pm

Southern Bellz wrote:So now if you don't agree with the intervention the WASC does, you don't deserve credit for what you have done? To an extent, I agree with everything Mikeswill has said in all of the quotes. The WASC C&C are a popularity contest. The WASC does have the power to violate regional sovereignty.

His last quote is 100% correct. You may not agree with it, because you built your entire NS word view on not agreeing with it. Regional security is the role of the regional government. If they fail to do so, the fault lies with the government. I took my blame for failing to protect TSP, but I also did what I had to do to get my region back. At no point did I complain that what happened to TSP was not fair, because it was fair. Did it suck? Yes, but it doesn't change that fact that at that point Sedge played the game better than I did.

All of the people you listed aren't near the level of Mikeswill, in my eyes. I think more than anything it is impressive to be a successful renegade in this game, it's what makes this game interesting. If you can't see what he is done, it is simply because you choose to be blind. He has built a very unique, successful, neutral region. On top of it, if he is Highlander 1, he has maintained another very interesting region with IDF. That is his legacy, and by taking this away you are pretty much proving that people can not be commended without being a popular figure, and is good at fitting in a box.



Thank you, Southern Bellz, and Unibot 2ish, for your remarks. I stand by each of the aforementioned comments regarding the error of the Security Council and it's infringement upon Regional sovereignty. For the record: I did not seek the Commendation nor did I have the choice to accept or reject the Commendation. My ego, which is a tad smaller than my righteous adversaries, appreciated the recognition given to me and the NationStates region for years of hard work. The conflict with my previous stance warranted a redress and subsequent alteration in policy which sought to appreciate the Commendation process while continuing to stand against the Liberation authority which is at the crux of my fundamental disagreement with this body. The fact remains, however, that this body will not tolerate differences of opinion which is a precept of democracy. Where this body could have embraced achievement and individuality, the fear of such tolerance returned this institution toward cronyism. I care not to be a member of such hypocrisy.
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Mikeswill
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Postby Mikeswill » Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:44 pm

A mean old man wrote:Further addressing the idea of Mikeswill being commendable for playing "smart:" honestly, do you really believe that someone who claims to be in league with the people who destroy regions just like his own in order to avoid having his own demolished is deserving of a commendation? Further, is he deserving of a commendation by a body that tends to condemn those who destroy regions and commend those who preserve them? Mikeswill rejoices when regions just like the one he owns are torn down - karma hasn't come back to get him yet in-game, but this ironic disposition should not be ignored by the WASC.

That's not an anti-invader argument - more of an appeal to an average person's sense of justice.



Just to keep the facts straight: on or about September 10, 2010 TITO defended NationStates Region on their own volition thereby keeping the status quo of Mikeswill as WA Delegate over an Invasion by the combined forces of The Black Hawks, Unkown, and The New Inquisition. Neither of these raiders care about the alleged relationship between myself and The Highlander 1. They are Raiders and they raid. On that night it was my duty to defend the region and I failed. The fact that TITO rescued the region from demolition was part of the game play they chose to partake in without any request or approval by me. Had the Raiders won (and should they in the future) then I would have to choose to either accept their rule or move over to the Nation States region and focus my efforts their without the burden of founderless status. Such is the reality of the Jennifer Government Land which I agreed to upon my birth on October 28, 2003.
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The Highlander 1
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Postby The Highlander 1 » Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:19 pm

The nation of The Highlander 1 was created by Mikeswill over seven years ago to infiltrate the raider community and better the intelligence network of the NationStates region in defense of potential raids. The NationStates region had been ravaged by the Invader-Defender wars of 2003 and Mikeswill~Mikes Hope was beginning to bring security to the namesake region of the game. Unfortunately, unlike Texas or 10000 Islands, we were a founderless region without the security of founder powers. Every day we were at the mercy of the native nations we served. Unfortunately, without WA status, The Highlander 1 was not able to infiltrate into the inner workings of most Raider organizations. However, he was able to get a different perspective of the high-handed and hypocritical game play of the righteous.

Over the course of time rules continued to constrain the game play of Invaders while Defenders resorted to the same activities with impunity. In time, the Security Council was created to include the power of restricting the password controls of the WA Delegate. Under the guise of “Liberation” this act left any region at risk to the whims of those who controlled the Security Council thereby destroying true regional sovereignty. At this point Mikeswill stood firm against such usurpation of the rules of play and The Highlander 1 became a more aggressive voice of dissent against the Security Council. Nevertheless, raiders who agreed with the dissent gave no quarter or security to the NationStates region. Proof of same culminated in September 2010 when Mikeswill was nearly ousted as WA Delegate by members of the three largest raider groups in play.

It is the position of Mikeswill that the dynamics of the Jennifer Government Land includes raiders and defenders ~ that the NationStates region remains subject of invasion by both parties as proven in 2010. The irony that the Invader camp has far greater respect for my out-spoken disdain toward the Security Council than do the defenders is amusing as they readily would jump at the opportunity to unseat the longest standing delegate in the game. More ironical is the defender actions of 2010 which secured my position as delegate yet knowing my position toward the Security Council.

Ah, well, such are games and this next chapter shall prove most interesting indeed.


PS I am also Utmost Brownies ~ yummy.

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Nitro Blast
Civilian
 
Posts: 1
Founded: May 21, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Nitro Blast » Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:55 pm

BELIEVING that the extensive length of time that Mikeswill has spent as delegate of the region called "Nationstates" is due in part to the fact that the delegate of the region has never been democratically elected, is thanks to the key role which defenders played in preventing the invasion of the region on September 10, 2010, and is partly due to Mikeswill's long-held invader ties,


hmm... >_>

I blame TITO.

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Weed
Diplomat
 
Posts: 898
Founded: Oct 23, 2011
Capitalizt

Postby Weed » Tue Nov 01, 2011 10:20 pm

Unibot II wrote:
Mikeswill wrote:Commendation Resolutions are Popularity Contests and have no Business in the Affairs of The World Assembly. [...]
Mikeswill wrote:These Condemn & Commend Resolutions are mostly a popularity contest and a waste of the World Assembly’s time. It is not the Business of the World Assembly to Honour Nations. The WA is not a Beauty Contest. We would ignore these Resolutions were it not for the ridiculous precedent these Resolutions present.
Mikeswill wrote:Again: These Condemn & Commend Resolutions are mostly a popularity contest and a waste of the World Assembly’s time. Although Todd McCloud has worn numerous masks as a Raider, Defender, and Delegate, it is not the Business of the World Assembly to Honour Nations. The WA is not a Beauty Contest.
Good enough for me. That makes him either opposed to his own commendation or someone who recognizes honoring himself alone as the business of the World Assembly. If he doesn't want the commendation he shouldn't be forced to have it. If he's so conceited as to the latter he also shouldn't have it.
Last edited by Weed on Tue Nov 01, 2011 10:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I prefer not to be called that
Ex-Defender
Former WASC Author
----V----
Weed
LIVE FREE

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Naginii
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 103
Founded: Jul 21, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby Naginii » Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:20 pm

Mike is neither raider nor defender. As Highlander, he slips into a voice he can use to help protect his region from raiders by making connections of understanding with them -- not alliance with them. Does he oppose WASC? Yep, so do many. That doesn't invalidate his good works, it merely makes him a solid NS player. gIn 2010 when his region was invaded, DEN operatives let those who attacked his region know very clearly they'd crossed a line -- crashing NationStates isn't done due to the respect he's earned through legitimate and honorable play and stewardship of his region. Anyone who can hold the DG chair that long without founder or password powers has our respect, and it was for that reason alone I figured the WASC supported the original proposal.

Anyway, if I took all this dialogue, put it into a blender, I'd come up with the following:

"Mikeswill is really Highlander, a supporter of NS raiding groups and so he's a raider even if he never raided, and while Mikeswill is the longest-standing delegate in NS, he's really a jerk because he doesn't allow elections and says nasty things about the WA. So we should take away the gold star we gave him."

I'm really glad Civics wasn't lost on you guys, and that you understand how messy democracy can be at times. Members of governmental assemblies will disagree and vote against things you like, and speak-out against the body as whole when they disagree with it when you're not looking. Democracy in action = the right to disagree. Or is a subtext of this proposal an admission that in order to be a member of the WA in good standing, one has to subscribe to WA groupthink?

Neither Mike nor Highlander raid. Never has. Further, Highlander didn't get a commendation, as I recall. Mikeswill was given his tribute because he created a signature cornerstone in this game, and I don't think there are too many on this board that can say that. Indeed, as we're also well understood to be against what the WASC does, we still agree that Mike deserved the recognition, even if he never sought it.

His anti-WASC stance is called hypocritical in view of the proposal citing him for being a supporter of the WA. Again, since when and where has it been written you have to agree with a group to be part of it? The only mechanism Mike can control his region is via the DG chair, therefore he belongs to the WA. Accusing him of duplicity and hypocrisy as rationale for repeal is equally invalid on the same grounds: Whereas before this body was singing his praises for his region to lobby FOR the previous proposal, those words are now loaded-up into the cannons and fired back at him -- you're undermining your own credibility by dismissing as irrelevant all said before in acclimation. I guess you really didn't mean it then. All this is a perfect example of why many vocally oppose and roll their eyes at what this group does. It's a wonder you lot don't get collective ethical whiplash.

So the authors of the original proposal didn't understand whom Highlander was, proposed a commendation for an alter ego they were impressed with, and now wished they hadn't. You do realize if you had just let this little thing sit in the bottom of one of your many disused file cabinets, nobody would've even remembered...and that bringing it all back-up, you make an issue out of something that isn't going to reflect particularly well on this group's image. Assuming the ludicrous for a moment, that Mike is as you suggest, a raider in rainbow clothing, then you've done what everyone in here said would never happen -- you possibly honored a raider. Aww snap. Wouldn't you rather that little bit of WASC history just lie fallow and undisturbed?

This is more to correct the backers' public mistake, than to punish Mike -- despite being a successful NS gamer and contributor -- because of his guilt-by-association with the raiding community. All this adds-up to an embarrassing bit of legislation, but it's not legitimate: your problem is with Highlander, not Mikeswill who has the commendation.

It isn't unheard of for Members of the Bath to get tossed-out for things they did in their spare time, but it happens so very rarely because of all the negatives and damage to the image it causes. I also hope that this bastion of democracy also understands the concept of the precedent. Continue along these lines, condemn nations because of split-personality role-play (in a role-playing game built on the concept that we're all "Walter Mitty", amazingly), and the WASC will need to engage in background checks of every player it seeks to bless with its imprimatur. You never know who, be they RP, Defender, or Newb may have in their past or parallel lives, and can stand-up to the attention and probing -- lest you praise the wrong guy.

Give it a rest. Highlander is the nation at odds with this proposal, not Mikeswill. Hold in place the honor Mikeswill and NationStates have justifiably earned.

User avatar
Wordy
Envoy
 
Posts: 205
Founded: Apr 04, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Wordy » Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:43 pm

Naginii wrote:Mike is neither raider nor defender. As Highlander, he slips into a voice he can use to help protect his region from raiders by making connections of understanding with them -- not alliance with them. Does he oppose WASC? Yep, so do many. That doesn't invalidate his good works, it merely makes him a solid NS player. gIn 2010 when his region was invaded, DEN operatives let those who attacked his region know very clearly they'd crossed a line -- crashing NationStates isn't done due to the respect he's earned through legitimate and honorable play and stewardship of his region. Anyone who can hold the DG chair that long without founder or password powers has our respect, and it was for that reason alone I figured the WASC supported the original proposal.


As already shown and by your own statement...Mikeswill has held Delegate chair for such a length of time due to both his ties with DEN and defenders.
On many occasions Mikeswill has passworded the region when he felt it was under threat.
AsThe highlander 1 he not only slips into a voice he can use to help protect his region but also to post on invaded regions RMB in clear delight and support of the invasion. Clearly not actions that are commendable.
RiderSyl wrote:
The ends justifies the meanies.

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Mikeswill
Envoy
 
Posts: 249
Founded: Antiquity
Anarchy

Postby Mikeswill » Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:10 pm

Wordy wrote:On many occasions Mikeswill has passworded the region when he felt it was under threat.


duh.

Unlike the Nations that leisure in the forums to look in the mirror after every post of rhetoric, I am engaged in a real scenario where I serve a Region that has empowered me to protect it from threats. In the past 8 years we have been attacked on at least 6 occasions. Prior to my entry the region was devastated by raids and wars reducing the population to 4 nations at one point. I arrived as the 23rd nation and twice grew the region to over 600 nations in the days when 100 were enormous. As a founderless region we have but one game created mechanism to protect the region in play called, password protection. My continued disagreement with The Security Council is their usurpation of the rules to remove from a Delegate the right to password a region.

The continued prattle of why I do not deserve a Commendation is now moot on a number of planes: a) the vote is done; b) I do not want the Commendation based upon the current oligarchy of fear mongers and hypocrites; c) I have received sufficient Commendation within the game that a paper medal can never match.

However, I do appreciate that this process has once again exposed the excesses of The Security Council. We had hoped for better but again you failed us.
Last edited by Mikeswill on Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Love Conquers Fear
NationStates

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Wordy
Envoy
 
Posts: 205
Founded: Apr 04, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Wordy » Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:30 pm

My post regarding use of password on the region was in response Naginii's sentence ...highlighted and bolded by me in the quote.

Naginii wrote: Anyone who can hold the DG chair that long without founder or password powers has our respect, and it was for that reason alone I figured the WASC supported the original proposal.


I have no problem with Delegates using password now and then to protect regions. That is what it is there for.
RiderSyl wrote:
The ends justifies the meanies.

User avatar
Punk Reloaded
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 450
Founded: May 01, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Punk Reloaded » Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:16 am

I can’t believe I’m saying this but I wholeheartedly agree with Southern Bellz on this one. Mikeswill has been del of NationStates for longer than 99% of nations still playing the game. That is no easy feat and imo commendable by itself.

I find that the reason for repeal is such hogwash and unworthy of AMOM. My esteem of amom went down a few notches while reading this. It’s also clear that the security council is interested in being nothing more than a lynch mob.

I want no part of such activity and vote against.
Former Delegate of The West Pacific
Former Foreign Affairs Minister, The West Pacific

Punk Reloaded - Retired
Big D Baby - Retired
Punk Daddy - Citizen of TSP

In TWP, we go Commando. - Darkesia

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