[Passed] Legalizing Prostitution

[Suidwes-Afrika]

You have an enemy in me whoever supports this. If it is magically implemented i will create or vote for any proposal combating this proposal. Calling this an industry is not acceptable nor is calling a prostitute an employee of prostitution. Forcing a nation to legalise prostitution would infringe on their sovereign rights and is completely immoral

All people have their own morals, so to let is bias your opinions isn't right. That enemy in you is telling you that this is not bad. It's good for our people and the WA. Also you joined the WA aware that things you are against may still be passed. You surrender your NatSov by joining the WA.

Wait, so I just gave up my national sovereignty by joining the WA? I really didn't realize that was the case ( I could not find it anywhere on the General Assembly Forums).

Very likely to resign accordingly.

[The Republic of Lanos]

Well, not quite. The WA doesn't have an army that can invade you if you violate (or block) a resolution.

[Connopolis]

All people have their own morals, so to let is bias your opinions isn't right. That enemy in you is telling you that this is not bad. It's good for our people and the WA. Also you joined the WA aware that things you are against may still be passed. You surrender your NatSov by joining the WA.

Wait, so I just gave up my national sovereignty by joining the WA? I really didn't realize that was the case ( I could not find it anywhere on the General Assembly Forums).

Very likely to resign accordingly.

You do forfeit your sovereignty upon joining, however there are benefits and alternatives. For example; free trade resolutions assist your economy in ways that you couldn't do without international cooperation. Should you still want to remain sovereign, you can make a puppet nation in the WA (e.i. Suidwes Afrika WA Mission), comprised of your WA staff, which effectively allows you to have an influence, yet ensures your sovereignty.

Yours in International Federalism,

[Flibbleites]

OOC: i remember telling him to make a discussion page but he refused so......apparently hes afraid of others opinions. idk.Alright, I told you why I did not want to so stop with the lies.

"I see a vast amount of problems in this already. THe first is the clause stating that any government actions trying to limit prostitution is ILLEGAL. Oh...Im sorry but its my government and my country....the WA has no right telling countries how to limit businesses. "Guess what, you joined the World Assembly, so you surrender NatSov. If the majority wants it then it will happen.

"Second, If countries will not participate in prostitution but have it legalized whats the point, we should just have a proposal for the "Right to Fail". I wish the Azarite was here to discuss this with us but alas....he couldnt even reserve a room."I do not see a problem. If they don't then good. That's the whole reason I made the proposal, to give people the CHOICE.

"Third, if the WA is not madating the creation of a prostiution industry....then what the hell is the point of this then? Im suppose to waste government money and efforts to do what again? Find every prostitute and brothel in the giant country of DIlange , test them for STDs, give them free condoms, and warn them of the health risks. This proposal isnt based in a realistic approach to the international community or business."You guys keep forgetting you can add your own protocol, such as making them come to you & give them whatever, or give them special licenses. Be creative, customize it. Since your so keen on NatSov

"Fourth, A few countries in the WA have government-mandated religion. Now, if one country had a religion that was against prostitution, would that count as a government-imposed regulation to make prostitution non-profitable? This proposal is riddled with more questions/redefitions then actual answers." No, you do not HAVE to be a prostitute. Anyway, isn't there a resolution mandating that you cannot force religion. It's not imposing......

"Fellow World Assembly Delegates, I advise for you to vote against this ludicris proposal thats riddled with loopholes. This proposal single-handedly destroys nation's rights how to run business and how to regulate it so." Sainthos preached to the rest of the delegates in the WA.

The last paragraph is nonsense. Obviously there is no loophole and if there was if so insignificant that it still made it to quorum. Key players such as Drop Your Pants approved this, thats saying something. I know you don't like colors but this was extremely long.

What did we tell you about responding to posts like this.

Flibbleites
Game Moderator

[Osterveim]

You have Osterveim's strong vote against this.

[Flibbleites]

All people have their own morals, so to let is bias your opinions isn't right. That enemy in you is telling you that this is not bad. It's good for our people and the WA. Also you joined the WA aware that things you are against may still be passed. You surrender your NatSov by joining the WA.

Wait, so I just gave up my national sovereignty by joining the WA? I really didn't realize that was the case ( I could not find it anywhere on the General Assembly Forums).

Very likely to resign accordingly.

No, the IntFeds around here just want you to think that by joining the WA you completely forfeit your sovereignty. There are those of us here who fight to retain as much National Sovereignty as possible.

Bob Flibble
WA Representative

[The Republic of Lanos]

Wait, so I just gave up my national sovereignty by joining the WA? I really didn't realize that was the case ( I could not find it anywhere on the General Assembly Forums).

Very likely to resign accordingly.

No, the IntFeds around here just want you to think that by joining the WA you completely forfeit your sovereignty. There are those of us here who fight to retain as much National Sovereignty as possible.

Bob Flibble
WA Representative

Lanos agrees with the NatSov argument. This proposal will violate our NatSov by forcing us to legalize a crime and a sin.

[Connopolis]

Wait, so I just gave up my national sovereignty by joining the WA? I really didn't realize that was the case ( I could not find it anywhere on the General Assembly Forums).

Very likely to resign accordingly.

No, the IntFeds around here just want you to think that by joining the WA you completely forfeit your sovereignty. There are those of us here who fight to retain as much National Sovereignty as possible.

Bob Flibble
WA Representative

Technically speaking, the WA can do just about anything it wants, so long as it doesn't violate secretariat rulings. By joining, you potentially forfeit your sovereignty.

[Alqania]

"The Queendom remains OPPOSED to this proposal."

ACKNOWLEDGING that prostitution, one of the oldest and most known professions in existence, is illegal in many member states;

"The age and fame or infamy of prostitution is completely irrelevant to the question of its legal status."

CONVINCED that all individuals have a fundamental right to bodily sovereignty that no government can rightly violate;

"The Queendom does NOT (1) share this conviction nor (2) recognise prostitution as a part of bodily sovereignty."

HEREBY MANDATES that all member states residing with the World Assembly legalize the business and free trade of prostitution within the confines of previously existent international law.

Prostitutes and member states that reside with the World Assembly MUST ABIDE to the following statements:
(1) Prostitutes are made fully aware of the health or other specific risk connected to prostitution;
(2) A prostitute has the right to refuse any sexual act;
(3) A prostitute has the right to create a contract with his/her/its client agreeing on specific details.

"This can all be loopholed. The Queendom does not reside with the World Assembly; our state does not have its seat in territory under the control of WA management and the state does not dwell in any territory under such control. The presence of a permanent mission to the World Assembly does not equate a seat of government. By defining the seat of Her Majesty's Government as the Alqanian capital of Wilborg, the Queendom can ignore these clauses and still be in compliance with the letter of the law, should this proposal come to pass."

PROHIBITS the following:
(1) Sexual penetration to happen without some form of sexual protection, unless both sides consent to not using any form of sexual protection;
(2) Any government to stop a sapient being from acquiring this profession; within the confines of previously existent international law.

"Number (1) would be considered rape under Alqanian law and already prohibited, regardless of whether the sexual penetration is done as prostitution or not.

Number (2) is interesting. One existent international law is Resolution #68 National Economic Freedoms, which:

ALLOWS national governments to regulate commerce within their jurisdiction,

As our national governments are allowed by existent international law to regulate commerce, and this allowance reasonably includes the right to enforce licensing or other systems of requiring professionals to meet certain criteria set by the national government, thereby stopping sapient beings from acquiring the profession, the aforementioned clause in this proposal does not actually do anything."

FURTHER PROHIBITS Individual member-states regulating prostitution-based enterprises to the point where it no longer becomes profitable for the enterprise, or its employees; member-states must also refrain from instilling negative ramifications on prostitutes for pursuing the profession with the intent of stymieing the industry.

"While prostitution is already legal in the Queendom, it is a crime under Alqanian law to profit from someone else's prostitution. Her Majesty's Government reserves the right under Resolution #68 to continue this policy and is of the firm opinion that doing so would not violate the letter of the law, should this proposal come to pass.

Requiring member states to ensure that an industry can be profitable is dangerously close to an ideological ban on non-capitalist ideologies. Anyway, Her Majesty's Government reserves the right to define 'profitable' and when regulation is so strong that profit is impossible. It should be apparent to anyone that the profiteers themselves cannot be the ones to exercise such judgement as they would no doubt see any regulation that even in the slightest way risks cutting into their profit as unacceptable.

Her Majesty's Government reserves the right to, in compliance with the letter of the law should this proposal come to pass, limit the legality of profit on sex to the individual prostitute. Profiting on someone else's prostitution shall continue to be a crime under Alqanian law and all pimps and brothels therefore effectively banned. This proposal's ban on negative ramifications on prostitutes does not extend to pimps."

This resolution RECOMMENDS the following:
(1) That member states provide free or low-cost, high quality condoms and other prophylactics, birth control and STI screenings to prostitutes and others who are at risk of STI's and unwanted pregnancies;
(2) Prostitutes are involved with organized brothels for better safety.

"The Queendom already provides the services mentioned in (1) to everyone free of charge, regardless of whether they engage in prostitution or not.

As point (2) is a recommendation only, Her Majesty's Government is of the firm opinion that a continued effective ban on brothels under Alqanian law would be in compliance with the letter of the law, should this proposal come to pass."

ENCOURAGES individual member states to impose additional protocol or standards that do not conflict with this resolution.

"That is exactly what the Queendom will be doing."

[Flibbleites]

No, the IntFeds around here just want you to think that by joining the WA you completely forfeit your sovereignty. There are those of us here who fight to retain as much National Sovereignty as possible.

Bob Flibble
WA Representative

Technically speaking, the WA can do just about anything it wants, so long as it doesn't violate secretariat rulings. By joining, you potentially forfeit your sovereignty.

Which is why we Sovereigntists fight to retain our sovereignty.

Bob Flibble
WA Representative

[The Republic of Lanos]

"The Queendom remains OPPOSED to this proposal."

ACKNOWLEDGING that prostitution, one of the oldest and most known professions in existence, is illegal in many member states;

"The age and fame or infamy of prostitution is completely irrelevant to the question of its legal status."

CONVINCED that all individuals have a fundamental right to bodily sovereignty that no government can rightly violate;

"The Queendom does NOT (1) share this conviction nor (2) recognise prostitution as a part of bodily sovereignty."

HEREBY MANDATES that all member states residing with the World Assembly legalize the business and free trade of prostitution within the confines of previously existent international law.

Prostitutes and member states that reside with the World Assembly MUST ABIDE to the following statements:
(1) Prostitutes are made fully aware of the health or other specific risk connected to prostitution;
(2) A prostitute has the right to refuse any sexual act;
(3) A prostitute has the right to create a contract with his/her/its client agreeing on specific details.

"This can all be loopholed. The Queendom does not reside with the World Assembly; our state does not have its seat in territory under the control of WA management and the state does not dwell in any territory under such control. The presence of a permanent mission to the World Assembly does not equate a seat of government. By defining the seat of Her Majesty's Government as the Alqanian capital of Wilborg, the Queendom can ignore these clauses and still be in compliance with the letter of the law, should this proposal come to pass."

PROHIBITS the following:
(1) Sexual penetration to happen without some form of sexual protection, unless both sides consent to not using any form of sexual protection;
(2) Any government to stop a sapient being from acquiring this profession; within the confines of previously existent international law.

"Number (1) would be considered rape under Alqanian law and already prohibited, regardless of whether the sexual penetration is done as prostitution or not.

Number (2) is interesting. One existent international law is Resolution #68 National Economic Freedoms, which:

ALLOWS national governments to regulate commerce within their jurisdiction,

As our national governments are allowed by existent international law to regulate commerce, and this allowance reasonably includes the right to enforce licensing or other systems of requiring professionals to meet certain criteria set by the national government, thereby stopping sapient beings from acquiring the profession, the aforementioned clause in this proposal does not actually do anything."

FURTHER PROHIBITS Individual member-states regulating prostitution-based enterprises to the point where it no longer becomes profitable for the enterprise, or its employees; member-states must also refrain from instilling negative ramifications on prostitutes for pursuing the profession with the intent of stymieing the industry.

"While prostitution is already legal in the Queendom, it is a crime under Alqanian law to profit from someone else's prostitution. Her Majesty's Government reserves the right under Resolution #68 to continue this policy and is of the firm opinion that doing so would not violate the letter of the law, should this proposal come to pass.

Requiring member states to ensure that an industry can be profitable is dangerously close to an ideological ban on non-capitalist ideologies. Anyway, Her Majesty's Government reserves the right to define 'profitable' and when regulation is so strong that profit is impossible. It should be apparent to anyone that the profiteers themselves cannot be the ones to exercise such judgement as they would no doubt see any regulation that even in the slightest way risks cutting into their profit as unacceptable.

Her Majesty's Government reserves the right to, in compliance with the letter of the law should this proposal come to pass, limit the legality of profit on sex to the individual prostitute. Profiting on someone else's prostitution shall continue to be a crime under Alqanian law and all pimps and brothels therefore effectively banned. This proposal's ban on negative ramifications on prostitutes does not extend to pimps."

This resolution RECOMMENDS the following:
(1) That member states provide free or low-cost, high quality condoms and other prophylactics, birth control and STI screenings to prostitutes and others who are at risk of STI's and unwanted pregnancies;
(2) Prostitutes are involved with organized brothels for better safety.

"The Queendom already provides the services mentioned in (1) to everyone free of charge, regardless of whether they engage in prostitution or not.

As point (2) is a recommendation only, Her Majesty's Government is of the firm opinion that a continued effective ban on brothels under Alqanian law would be in compliance with the letter of the law, should this proposal come to pass."

ENCOURAGES individual member states to impose additional protocol or standards that do not conflict with this resolution.

"That is exactly what the Queendom will be doing."

Hmm. GIven that loophole you just mentioned, I'll be pulling that a lot. Lanos is not residing in the WA and will be argued repeatedly until it shall be repealed.

[The Republic of Lanos]

Also, mentioned in another thread, how does prositution improve an economy?

[Flibbleites]

Also, mentioned in another thread, how does prositution improve an economy?

Voodoo economics.

Bob Flibble
WA Representative

[Embolalia]

Also, mentioned in another thread, how does prositution improve an economy?

Voodoo economics.

Bob Flibble
WA Representative

Mod edit: Wanna know what might annoy the Mods? Posting links to things like that.

[Dilange]

OOC: i remember telling him to make a discussion page but he refused so......apparently hes afraid of others opinions. idk.Alright, I told you why I did not want to so stop with the lies.

"I see a vast amount of problems in this already. THe first is the clause stating that any government actions trying to limit prostitution is ILLEGAL. Oh...Im sorry but its my government and my country....the WA has no right telling countries how to limit businesses. "Guess what, you joined the World Assembly, so you surrender NatSov. If the majority wants it then it will happen.

"Second, If countries will not participate in prostitution but have it legalized whats the point, we should just have a proposal for the "Right to Fail". I wish the Azarite was here to discuss this with us but alas....he couldnt even reserve a room."I do not see a problem. If they don't then good. That's the whole reason I made the proposal, to give people the CHOICE.

"Third, if the WA is not madating the creation of a prostiution industry....then what the hell is the point of this then? Im suppose to waste government money and efforts to do what again? Find every prostitute and brothel in the giant country of DIlange , test them for STDs, give them free condoms, and warn them of the health risks. This proposal isnt based in a realistic approach to the international community or business."You guys keep forgetting you can add your own protocol, such as making them come to you & give them whatever, or give them special licenses. Be creative, customize it. Since your so keen on NatSov

"Fourth, A few countries in the WA have government-mandated religion. Now, if one country had a religion that was against prostitution, would that count as a government-imposed regulation to make prostitution non-profitable? This proposal is riddled with more questions/redefitions then actual answers." No, you do not HAVE to be a prostitute. Anyway, isn't there a resolution mandating that you cannot force religion. It's not imposing......

"Fellow World Assembly Delegates, I advise for you to vote against this ludicris proposal thats riddled with loopholes. This proposal single-handedly destroys nation's rights how to run business and how to regulate it so." Sainthos preached to the rest of the delegates in the WA.

The last paragraph is nonsense. Obviously there is no loophole and if there was if so insignificant that it still made it to quorum. Key players such as Drop Your Pants approved this, thats saying something. I know you don't like colors but this was extremely long.

OOC: You mean how you were afraid the mods would close the thread? Bullshit. Why would the mods close a thread for an in queue proposal?

"1) No Dilange joined the WA to become active in the international field, not to surrender our rights to run our country....if thsat was the case our 1st president would have never let us join. I know how the WA works, you a new here.....alas such a blank slate to be drawn from

2) To choose what exaclty Azarite? To fail in countries where prostitutes would be looked upon as outcasts and be treated like dirt from the other citizens, become more deeper in poverty.....is that the choose? If it is, you have no definiotion of freedoms dear delegate.

3) You mean kill every prostitute in my country? Cause by this bill I can keep prostitution legal and not restrict business but kill every prostiute in my country? Such a loophole huh.

4) Answer the question, you keep dodging question like imaginary bullets Azarite. I want you to be staright with me for once and not sidetrack it.

5) It was an appeal to the other delegates in the WA, it may be ninsense to you but it dear to me. As for loopholes....you mean crime, disease, and class warfare mean nothing to you?" Sainthos questioned the man.

[The Republic of Lanos]

If this does benefit the economy, why hasn't some nations that legalized this practice have not experienced an economic recovery/have maintained a good economic situation? Perhaps other sectors of the economy that don't dabble in criminal activity are keeping their economy going? Not reliant on this immoral practice?

The claims of economic benefit does not apply to everybody. It may in Great Azarath, but not in every single WA member. The WA is not a utopian paradise for one nation to force micromanagement upon all. If we want to ban this, we should reserve the right to.

[Embolalia]

Previous censorship-worthy joking aside, this really isn't something the WA needs to decide on. The WA should infringe upon sovereignty only to protect the fundamental rights and safety of citizens. Prostitution is not a fundamental right. I agree, it's something people should be allowed to do. I don't think it's so important that it should be passed down from upon high as a mandate.

That said, I would like to thank the author for so thoroughly and arbitrarily limiting our ability to regulate the industry. This will make the proposal very easy to repeal, should it pass.

-E. Rory Hywel
WA Ambassador for Embolalia

[Great Azarath]

Bad morals? Giving people the choice to become a prostitute is a bad moral? Okay, so me giving people a choice is worse than shoving my own morals down someones throat?

Being a prostitute itself is immoral, in the sense that it negatively affects public health and order and therefore banned1. Not giving the choice for people to be immoral is not immoral, otherwise outlawing murder will be immoral. 2

Of course, some might argue that being a prostitute isn't immoral. However, plenty of people will argue that revenge isn't immoral. As long as the majority thinks it is immoral, then it can be reasonably thought as immoral in general.3

Again, I have seen plenty of people thinking it isn't right for people to force the majority's moral onto the individual - but doing otherwise would be to force the individual's moral onto the society.
ave
Whether the majority thinks it's immoral or not, we will soon see in the voting.

1 Your morals are just that, moral. I am positive all your citizens do not have the same exact morals as you. Unless, of course you brain wash them with propaganda, but you do not seem like that. They won't have a negative effect if you take advantage of the opportunity and regulate it well. How exactly would it get rid of order?

2 What? "Not giving people the choice to be immoral, is immoral." Okay, idk how to respond to that

3 But we will not know what the majority thinks until it comes to vote.

At first glance I thought you made good points, but.......

[The Republic of Lanos]

You know, we will not enforce this because we don't reside with the WA, we reside outside of the WA grounds...

Even then, we will block enforcement simply on the grounds Minoa presented...and that everyone else said why. You've seem so devoted to this, tell me.

Why make such a fuss over this? Even to get in our faces and demand we support this or we are "heartless" for all the hookers that are forced to do this? Even if this were legal, they still have to deal with hell. And where are the economic benefits to this? Oh and btw, Lanos has had a severe problem with sexual slavery when we liberated/annexed Hobbes City. They had a severe case of that. Now tell me why we should bring this horrible practice back only to potentially see it go down to shit again?

We will still raid brothels and arrest organizers on charges of slavery. Even if this proposal makes this shit legal. It is slavery. We may fine the hookers that do it alone but Lanos takes the meaning of working girls in brothels to be working under conditions of slavery and we will free them. All too often, we see that happen. So don't call us full of shit for having this problem. We take this shit seriously and rightfully so.

[Suidwes-Afrika]

You know, we will not enforce this because we don't reside with the WA, we reside outside of the WA grounds...

Even then, we will block enforcement simply on the grounds Minoa presented...and that everyone else said why. You've seem so devoted to this, tell me.

Why make such a fuss over this? Even to get in our faces and demand we support this or we are "heartless" for all the hookers that are forced to do this? Even if this were legal, they still have to deal with hell. And where are the economic benefits to this? Oh and btw, Lanos has had a severe problem with sexual slavery when we liberated/annexed Hobbes City. They had a severe case of that. Now tell me why we should bring this horrible practice back only to potentially see it go down to shit again?

We will still raid brothels and arrest organizers on charges of slavery. Even if this proposal makes this shit legal. It is slavery. We may fine the hookers that do it alone but Lanos takes the meaning of working girls in brothels to be working under conditions of slavery and we will free them. All too often, we see that happen. So don't call us full of shit for having this problem. We take this shit seriously and rightfully so.

I've found my own loophole to this matter: We're not beyond hiring government-paid mercenaries and thugs to destroy as much of the prostitution industry as possible and therefore make it unprofitable in Suidwes-Afrika without being illegal.

Of course, our police will receive orders to investigate brothel managers and prostitutes instead for technical/minor breaches of law, instead of the hired gangs. This WA proposal stipulates we cannot regulate the industry enough to make prostitution unprofitable, but if you hire someone unaffiliated with your official government to carry out dirty work for you, all bets are off.

Keep in mind that when I speak of doing this, it is for the good of Suidwes-Afrika, which has an incredibly high rate of HIV, and other problems involving sexual-related grievances that I do not wish to go into detail with right now (These are outlined in my national factbook, which should be published soon). We're adopting a "Father knows best" take on this issue, which is understandable once you realize that about sixty to seventy per cent of our population are uncivilized savages who live in backwards and illiterate tribal societies.

[Pryssilvalia]

1 Your morals are just that, moral. I am positive all your citizens do not have the same exact morals as you. Unless, of course you brain wash them with propaganda, but you do not seem like that. They won't have a negative effect if you take advantage of the opportunity and regulate it well. How exactly would it get rid of order?

If you think of moral in basic Utilitarian terms, then an act that adversely affects society would be immoral. Of course, not everybody thinks in Utilitarian terms, but many other ways of thinking about moral will come to the conclusion that prostitution is immoral.

But then again, if you looked, you would've seen that I have already acknowledged that "Of course, some might argue that being a prostitute isn't immoral". Again, whether the majority thinks prostitution is immoral is not yet decided, but I can see that the majority of active ambassadors are against it.

Prostitution negatively affects public health, which has a direct consequence on public order. When I say "negatively affects... public order", I mean in the sense that it hinders the normal function of society, of course, again due to public health. There are also issues of correlation between prostitution and other crimes like organized crimes, human trafficking, drug uses,... mostly due to the secrecy nature of prostitution, and perhaps due to the basic nature of prostitution itself.

2 What? "Not giving people the choice to be immoral, is immoral." Okay, idk how to respond to that

You quoted it wrong. Let's me break in down for you, my dear:

"Not giving the choice for people to be immoral"/"is not immoral", "otherwise"/"outlawing murder"/"will be immoral" (it should be "would be immoral", sorry, my grammar slips sometimes).

Do I need to explain further?

[Great Azarath]

All people have their own morals, so to let is bias your opinions isn't right. That enemy in you is telling you that this is not bad. It's good for our people and the WA. Also you joined the WA aware that things you are against may still be passed. You surrender your NatSov by joining the WA.

Wait, so I just gave up my national sovereignty by joining the WA? I really didn't realize that was the case ( I could not find it anywhere on the General Assembly Forums).

Very likely to resign accordingly.

Did you manage to find something about NatSov?

[Great Azarath]

No, the IntFeds around here just want you to think that by joining the WA you completely forfeit your sovereignty. There are those of us here who fight to retain as much National Sovereignty as possible.

Bob Flibble
WA Representative

Lanos agrees with the NatSov argument. This proposal will violate our NatSov by forcing us to legalize a crime and a sin.

Crime? Yes, but that will soon be changed in the corrupt nations. If you join a organzation in which you are forced to follow laws you do not agree with this obviously you are surrendering your NatSov

[Mahaj]

Lanos agrees with the NatSov argument. This proposal will violate our NatSov by forcing us to legalize a crime and a sin.

Crime? Yes, but that will soon be changed in the corrupt nations. If you join a organzation in which you are forced to follow laws you do not agree with this obviously you are surrendering your NatSov

Doesn't mean you can go rampant.

[Linux and the X]

-snipped-

Know what, Doctor? Fix your damn quotes or I won't be voting in favour of your proposals.