[PASSED] Consular Rights

[Dukopolious]

plus the cost of getting the diplomats from home nation to host nation,

A diplomatic mission is a consulate or embassy in the host nation. The diplomat or representative is already in the host nation. Also, this does not say the host nation has to pay for such a meeting, that would be something worked out between the two nations when the embassy/consulate is first established most likely.

They aren't going to walk from the embassy to the prison or court. For example my nation holds embassies in it's capital and supreme court along with largest prison, along with Forgien prison, on an island hundreds of kilometers away. Regardless of the nation it still costs money to move from place to place. And even a $20 dollar fee can be the difference between a nation keeping it's embassy or not (I've seen some pretty strict nations..)

and yet it wouldn't benefit the home nation, as all it does is bring a Lawbreaker* sorry Alleged Lawbreaker back into the home nation?

It releases no one from prison. If the alleged rule breaker makes it back to the home nation it is because the accuser dropped the charges or the accused was found not guilty, that sort of thing.

Or if thier rich home nation's ambassadors bribed the judges. Or if they lied, or if they would just use his capture as an excuse to invade host nation in the event that home nation was a warmonger (It's happened to me twice.)

Ted Fairless, WA Ambassador from Topid[/quote]

But all in all. Nice job writing it. I don't see any benifits for anyone but the criminal or his/her familly though. If you enter a nation, you should know and respect it's laws, to not do so is them taking thier own risk. Very rareley would they be innocent.

[Glen-Rhodes]

I say this in absolute kindness: please learn how to use the quote tags. Please look at the example:

When you click the quote button, you're given this:

Code: Select all

[quote="Topid";p="6930160"][quote="Dukopolious";p="6929958"]So basically it only benefits the criminal* sorry 'Alleged' Criminal.[/quote]Yes.[quote="Dukopolious";p="6929958"]it helps their family.[/quote]Yes.[quote="Dukopolious";p="6929958"]Yet the host nation gets nothing out of it,[/quote]In that situation, until they become a home nation in another situation.[quote="Dukopolious";p="6929958"]but a few law enforcers wasting time capturing a foreigner who will ultimately just waste the time of a court by giving them time to speak with their diplomats,[/quote]This wastes the time of the court how? The court doesn't have to be in session when this meeting happens, and can hear other cases while one accused meets with the representative from his home nation. [quote="Dukopolious";p="6929958"]plus the cost of getting the diplomats from home nation to host nation,[/quote]A diplomatic mission is a consulate or embassy in the host nation. The diplomat or representative is already in the host nation. Also, this does not say the host nation has to pay for such a meeting, that would be something worked out between the two nations when the embassy/consulate is first established most likely. [quote="Dukopolious";p="6929958"]and yet it wouldn't benefit the home nation, as all it does is bring a Lawbreaker* sorry Alleged Lawbreaker back into the home nation?[/quote]It releases no one from prison. If the alleged rule breaker makes it back to the home nation it is because the accuser dropped the charges or the accused was found not guilty, that sort of thing.

Ted Fairless, WA Ambassador from Topid[/quote]

When responding to that post, you should have used this formatting:

Code: Select all

[quote="Topid";p="6930160"]A diplomatic mission is a consulate or embassy in the host nation. The diplomat or representative is already in the host nation. Also, this does not say the host nation has to pay for such a meeting, that would be something worked out between the two nations when the embassy/consulate is first established most likely.[/quote]
They aren't going to walk from the embassy to the prison or court. For example my nation holds embassies in it's capital and supreme court along with largest prison, along with Forgien prison, on an island hundreds of kilometers away. Regardless of the nation it still costs money to move from place to place. And even a $20 dollar fee can be the difference between a nation keeping it's embassy or not (I've seen some pretty strict nations..)

[quote="Topid";p="6930160"]It releases no one from prison. If the alleged rule breaker makes it back to the home nation it is because the accuser dropped the charges or the accused was found not guilty, that sort of thing.[/quote]
Or if thier rich home nation's ambassadors bribed the judges. Or if they lied, or if they would just use his capture as an excuse to invade host nation in the event that home nation was a warmonger (It's happened to me twice.)

But all in all. Nice job writing it. I don't see any benifits for anyone but the criminal or his/her familly though. If you enter a nation, you should know and respect it's laws, to not do so is them taking thier own risk. Very rareley would they be innocent.


Notice that what Topid said is in between the quote bbcode that attributes it to Topid. Your responses are put directed underneath those quotes. Each block of arguments -- a quote and your response -- is separated, so that there's plenty of whitespace, which makes things easier to read.

[Sanctaria]

I say this in absolute kindness: please learn how to use the quote tags. Please look at the example:

When you click the quote button, you're given this:

Code: Select all

[quote="Topid";p="6930160"][quote="Dukopolious";p="6929958"]So basically it only benefits the criminal* sorry 'Alleged' Criminal.[/quote]Yes.[quote="Dukopolious";p="6929958"]it helps their family.[/quote]Yes.[quote="Dukopolious";p="6929958"]Yet the host nation gets nothing out of it,[/quote]In that situation, until they become a home nation in another situation.[quote="Dukopolious";p="6929958"]but a few law enforcers wasting time capturing a foreigner who will ultimately just waste the time of a court by giving them time to speak with their diplomats,[/quote]This wastes the time of the court how? The court doesn't have to be in session when this meeting happens, and can hear other cases while one accused meets with the representative from his home nation. [quote="Dukopolious";p="6929958"]plus the cost of getting the diplomats from home nation to host nation,[/quote]A diplomatic mission is a consulate or embassy in the host nation. The diplomat or representative is already in the host nation. Also, this does not say the host nation has to pay for such a meeting, that would be something worked out between the two nations when the embassy/consulate is first established most likely. [quote="Dukopolious";p="6929958"]and yet it wouldn't benefit the home nation, as all it does is bring a Lawbreaker* sorry Alleged Lawbreaker back into the home nation?[/quote]It releases no one from prison. If the alleged rule breaker makes it back to the home nation it is because the accuser dropped the charges or the accused was found not guilty, that sort of thing.

Ted Fairless, WA Ambassador from Topid[/quote]

When responding to that post, you should have used this formatting:

Code: Select all

[quote="Topid";p="6930160"]A diplomatic mission is a consulate or embassy in the host nation. The diplomat or representative is already in the host nation. Also, this does not say the host nation has to pay for such a meeting, that would be something worked out between the two nations when the embassy/consulate is first established most likely.[/quote]
They aren't going to walk from the embassy to the prison or court. For example my nation holds embassies in it's capital and supreme court along with largest prison, along with Forgien prison, on an island hundreds of kilometers away. Regardless of the nation it still costs money to move from place to place. And even a $20 dollar fee can be the difference between a nation keeping it's embassy or not (I've seen some pretty strict nations..)

[quote="Topid";p="6930160"]It releases no one from prison. If the alleged rule breaker makes it back to the home nation it is because the accuser dropped the charges or the accused was found not guilty, that sort of thing.[/quote]
Or if thier rich home nation's ambassadors bribed the judges. Or if they lied, or if they would just use his capture as an excuse to invade host nation in the event that home nation was a warmonger (It's happened to me twice.)

But all in all. Nice job writing it. I don't see any benifits for anyone but the criminal or his/her familly though. If you enter a nation, you should know and respect it's laws, to not do so is them taking thier own risk. Very rareley would they be innocent.


Notice that what Topid said is in between the quote bbcode that attributes it to Topid. Your responses are put directed underneath those quotes. Each block of arguments -- a quote and your response -- is separated, so that there's plenty of whitespace, which makes things easier to read.

Thanks G-R. You deserve a medal.

[Dave Nation (Ancient)]

I don't see a problem with it. Nations are allowed to meet with their citizens when accused of a crime to offer them legal advice. That seems to be all, am I missing something?

Dave Nation, on behalf of Westphalia votes "For".

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

My nation wishes to monitor all conversations of foreigners in our prisons. If we've convicted and imprisoned a foreign terrorist, we do not believe such a person, who may continue to pose a danger to public safety, should be allowed to meet privately with anyone. I plan to draft an insta-repeal of this proposal on these grounds.

That's a very good point. We have changed our vote.

Also, we should mention that 'governments way want' should read 'governments may want'.

[The Otter Archipelago]

At the risk of coming across like a broken record, we still believe this to be superfluous and opening the doors for the passage of information which will support international espionage, organized crime, and terrorism.

We put forward Resolution #37, "Fairness in Criminal Trials", which states:

"REQUIRES that the accused be capable of understanding proceedings, through the provision by the court of translators and carers as necessary;"

And humbly submit that compliance to the aforementioned Resolution is protection enough for the accused, without allowing a back door for international interference, (be it the extraction of information, murder of the accused, or any other act beyond the control of the host nation) and without further muddying the waters of international law.

Charisma Nettlebaum,
Healthy, tanned, and proud citizen of
The Otter Archipelago

[Jedi8246]

Sir Daniel Hemlock rises, adjusting his tie.

"While we applaud the writers of this proposal, for finally making a proposal that belongs in a WORLD Assembly, not more socialist rifraf, we are against it. As mentioned by several other delegates, we don't want terrorists getting private meetings. It's hard enough when a terrorist publicly plants a bomb to stop it, and we certainly don't want it happening where we can't see it happen."

Sir Daniel takes his seat.

[The Eternal Kawaii]

In the Name of the Eternal Kawaii, may the Cute One be praised

The Diaspora Church of the Eternal Kawaii rises in support of this proposal. As a nation whose population consists of resident aliens forced by circumstance to live in foreign lands, the right of our people to seek access and protection through the Church authority is one we strive for. Our only criticism is that this proposal does not go far enough. We concur with the esteemed representative of Garvug that failing to include provisions for third-party representation is a glaring omission, and limiting access of convicted prisoners to a once-a-year meeting with their national representative seems to us woefully inadequate, verging on a violation of their human rights. Perhaps this issue could be addressed in future legislation?

[Cobdenia]

It could do with some work, and a few added bits, but the gist is fine and dandy

[Luxativia]

For

[Dukopolious]

I still can't belive my nation has to comply with this. What's the punishment for not complying?

[Dizyntk]

I still can't belive my nation has to comply with this. What's the punishment for not complying?

"You can comply and still not do anything, Ambassador. It is called Exploit the Loopholes. A time honored occupation here."

[Dukopolious]

I still can't belive my nation has to comply with this. What's the punishment for not complying?

"You can comply and still not do anything, Ambassador. It is called Exploit the Loopholes. A time honored occupation here."

"I see. Thank you esteemed ambassador"

*Gives all forgien criminals (Aka terorists) A temporary dukopolious citizenship, then gives them a life sentence or lesser depending on the court trial*

[Topid]

I never dreamed this would have the kind of support it did. Thanks to all who helped!

Ted Fairless, WA Ambassador from Topid

[Libraria and Ausitoria]

"You can comply and still not do anything, Ambassador. It is called Exploit the Loopholes. A time honored occupation here."

"I see. Thank you esteemed ambassador"

*Gives all forgien criminals (Aka terorists) A temporary dukopolious citizenship, then gives them a life sentence or lesser depending on the court trial*

Good idea, but we don't want to give terrorists citizenship of our nation. We'll erect a new nation they can be the only citizens of.