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[PASSED] Commend Naivetry

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Naivetry
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1294
Founded: Aug 02, 2006
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Naivetry » Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:55 pm

Hi The Bruce,

I know it's traditional for the nominee not to post in these threads, but I wasn't sure if there was anyone left in the game (and in the habit of posting on these forums) who would be qualified to answer. Please forgive the faux pas. People who dislike ancient NS history may want to look away now. :P (Also, I apologize to the younger generations, but I can't think of any way to make this newbie friendly. If it doesn't make sense, don't worry - not many people will understand who weren't playing 3-5 years ago.)

When the founder state of Equilism was shared between two players, what part did Naivetry play in the 2006 schism of Equilism, when one player changed the password on the other and effectively crushed the regional government with the regional controls?
At the start of Equilism's Schism on October 20, 2006, I was a new player with less than 3 months in the game - certainly nowhere near the Founder nation. Equilism had been having discussions about what to do about The Pacific, and that was my first hint that anything like real politics existed in NS. Up until then, I thought it was a fairly silly browser game with a great regional community attached. When Westwind made his announcement, it felt like a physical shock. I can tell you exactly how I reacted at the time, because I wrote (in what was going to become a bad habit) a really long post - two of them, actually - about what I was and was not going to do concerning the new Imperial government. (The Bruce, you should have access to that last link... if anyone else is suffering from insomnia, I can send you the text.)

I knew from the beginning that I couldn't stomach the Imperial Government, but neither could I stand not doing anything to help the region; so, by the end of those long months, Naivetry was still trying to reconcile the two sides while my new puppet Defero Emprie proofread Foreign Affairs statements for the Government in Exile. In short, I sat the fence, because I valued the friendships I had made, and I dared to believe that our community could be whole again.

I couldn't have been more wrong... or more right. Bruce, you may have missed the revelation; I would recommend that you read this thread, if so. My opinion there is unchanged. You will not find a single member of Equilism from that time or since who considers the "Schism" anything other than one of the best moments in our history - a history of working together for the good of the region - despite all appearances to the contrary at the time.


In 2008, during the The Neutral Territory Forum, Equilism announced its decision to be raiders and Equilism invaded the North Pacific, led by the founder (using the nation: Lewis and Clark).

Equilism has never announced that the E-Army would raid. When it looked like we might be heading more in that direction this year (long after I'd effectively left for TRR), Equilism dissolved the E-Army entirely rather than dishonor its legacy that way. Nor did we say anything that could even be interpreted as "Equilism is going to raid!" during Neutral Territory. I think you may be referring to this statement, which came along a month later. At that point, The Merlion was still an E-Army Commander, and I trust his defender credentials are sufficiently well-established to dispel the charges that the E-Army were "raiders". He resigned shortly after because neutrality - NOT raiding, but simply not being defender ideologues (because we said we would be free to act as our foreign policy dictated) - was as good as being raiders for the FRA then, as for TITO and others still today.

For your other point, forgive me for rehashing a tired refrain, but this accusation is a sore spot for me still. It's a case of the pot badmouthing the kettle. Equilism "invaded" TNP, according to the FRA and others, by endorsing Lewis and Clark after he had been democratically elected on the z13 forums. That in itself was no more than many other defender regions and organizations, including the ADN and the FRA, had done in the past and which others have done since without comment. It's called 'assisting the delegacy transfer', and I seem to be one of the few people objecting to it these days. :P Where we found criticism was in our continued support of Lewis and Clark after he switched forums and drew the ire of the z13 community. He'd also earned the enmity of the FRA for his perceived threat to turn TNP raider, and FRA member regions therefore invaded TNP to depose him. While all that was going on, the E-Army remained in TNP, but between missions, not full time - we continued to defend other regions throughout.

People may draw whatever conclusions they like about who was right and who was wrong in that situation, but in my opinion everyone was at least a little bit wrong, or there wouldn't have been an argument to be made for either side. And that means today's players should be given the whole story, rather than a simplified version that suits the viewpoint of the teller of the tale.


Was Naivetry still in Equilism at that time and if so, what role did they play in these events?
I was still just finding my way in Equilism at that time, and it gave me my first opportunity to lead above a ministerial level. I was never personally involved in TNP, though I was aware of much of what West was doing. Not all, by any means... he kept secrets from everyone. When Khark spilled the Crimson Order forums, for instance, that was the first time I knew they even existed. But my role was always to take care of Equilism while West couldn't. While West played in TNP, Chaucerin, New Eunomia (aka Canada6) and I were the constitutional triumvirate of guardians for the government in Equilism. West had declared a State of Emergency and transferred primary control over the Founder to Chauce - I still didn't have access to it at that point. I helped pass a bunch of laws, but outside Equilism most of my time was spent arguing with the FRA about whether or not Equilism's actions constituted an invasion. (I said no, they said yes, it went around in circles and was quite frustrating for all involved.) The threads are over there in the FRA archives somewhere.


Just to confirm that bit about the Foundership which someone mentioned earlier - I only started playing in early August of 2006, and Equilism was founded in 2004. I didn't become Co-Founder until (I think) May 2009.

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Topid
Minister
 
Posts: 2843
Founded: Dec 29, 2008
Capitalizt

Postby Topid » Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:08 pm

Damn, posts like that make me wish I had played this game when interesting events still happened.

That had better not be the last Nai epic post I see for a while. :hug: (Though you did a pretty good job of keeping that one short! :P)

Furthermore, I am continually frustrated in this vote that a few events YEARS ago, and the delegate switch from Kandy to Nai, are keeping some people from seeing the good Nai has done for as long as I've been in this game. No one is perfect. My history is far from perfect. I doubt most of yours is either. But I think Nai has done more net and gross good for the gameplay community than almost all (if not all) of the commended nations have.
Last edited by Topid on Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
AKA Weed

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Anime Daisuki
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Founded: Feb 21, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby Anime Daisuki » Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:28 am

There are people who ought to be commended and people who don't deserve to be commended.

In my opinion, Naivetry belong to the second group. She might be a "nice person", but everytime when faced with a choice, she picked to side with feeder coupers instead of standing up to them. TNP's coup (Westwind), TEP's coup (Phedre), TNP's subsequent coups (Durka/John Ashcroft Land) and TSP's coup (Sedge) all happened during her time, the second, third, and fourth when she was in a position powerful enough to put things right. Instead of expressing outrage at her "friends" actions, she sided with them each time.

I will be voting against this.

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Goobergunchia
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Founded: Antiquity
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Goobergunchia » Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:00 am

I have voted in favor for the reasons given in the resolution.

Naivetry's advocacy was how I first learned about the invasion of Belgium. Had it not been for her, it's entirely possible that the resolution I authored to "Liberate 'belgium'" would never even have been possible.

I can also vouch for the Rejected Realms seeing an increase in activity. I've been registered on the RR forums for years, and there were times that days would frequently pass with barely a post.
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Whamabama
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Posts: 368
Founded: Feb 04, 2008
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Whamabama » Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:27 am

Anime Daisuki wrote:There are people who ought to be commended and people who don't deserve to be commended.

In my opinion, Naivetry belong to the second group. She might be a "nice person", but everytime when faced with a choice, she picked to side with feeder coupers instead of standing up to them. TNP's coup (Westwind), TEP's coup (Phedre), TNP's subsequent coups (Durka/John Ashcroft Land) and TSP's coup (Sedge) all happened during her time, the second, third, and fourth when she was in a position powerful enough to put things right. Instead of expressing outrage at her "friends" actions, she sided with them each time.

I will be voting against this.


You can vote against it, but your facts are wrong. Nai was in no position to stop, or oppose WW in TNP. and while she was a commander during TEP (Phedre) why did you expect her to do more than you did? Nobody deployed against it.

Durk's first so called coup he was the elected leader. He purged at the end of it, and got himself deleted. Not alot we could do about that.

During his 2nd tenure, we did deploy to despose of him, and was successful.

"The sovereignty of one's self over one's self is called 'liberty'."
Founder of Equilism
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Equilism's Forum http://www.equilism.org/forum/index.php?act=idx

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Ballotonia
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Posts: 5494
Founded: Antiquity
Democratic Socialists

Postby Ballotonia » Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:54 am

Anime Daisuki wrote:There are people who ought to be commended and people who don't deserve to be commended.

In my opinion, Naivetry belong to the second group. She might be a "nice person", but everytime when faced with a choice, she picked to side with feeder coupers instead of standing up to them. TNP's coup (Westwind), TEP's coup (Phedre), TNP's subsequent coups (Durka/John Ashcroft Land) and TSP's coup (Sedge) all happened during her time, the second, third, and fourth when she was in a position powerful enough to put things right. Instead of expressing outrage at her "friends" actions, she sided with them each time.

I will be voting against this.


None of these actions are part of the proposal. It doesn't even say Defender in general.

C&C's may be awarded for things in Gameplay other than the invader/defense conflict, and this commendation is such an example.

Ballotonia
"Een volk dat voor tirannen zwicht zal meer dan lijf en goed verliezen, dan dooft het licht…" -- H.M. van Randwijk

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Crushing Our Balls
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Posts: 1
Founded: Feb 04, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Crushing Our Balls » Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:01 pm

Ballotonia wrote:C&C's may be awarded for things in Gameplay other than the invader/defense conflict, and this commendation is such an example.


This is why I am voting For.

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Sir Lans
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Posts: 25
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Sir Lans » Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:01 pm

In my opinion, The C&C's are completely a waste of time. Nothing gained/no consequence, and even if I did take these things serious I would still vote against merely for supporting Sedge and his coup all in the sake of *creating activity* :P

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Topid
Minister
 
Posts: 2843
Founded: Dec 29, 2008
Capitalizt

Postby Topid » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:07 pm

Seconds ago: The Security Council resolution Commend Naivetry was passed 5,962 votes to 3,824.

Thank you to everyone who helped me recognize this truly great player. This has been long deserved, and I only regret that because certain powers have not agreed with her 100% of the time, there was opposition to stepping back and recognizing how much Nai has given to this game as a whole.
AKA Weed

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Naivetry
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Posts: 1294
Founded: Aug 02, 2006
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Naivetry » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:48 pm

SL and AD... it's okay. I'm retired. TITO doesn't have to make things up about me anymore to keep their recruits from being seduced into friendliness and civility by my scrupulous politeness. :P Cheers, you two.

It's shiny. ^_^ Thanks, everyone.

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Biyah
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 385
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Biyah » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:58 pm

Buuurn.

congrats on the win, well deserved.

~B
-Lord Menelian, Patriarch of The House of Rahl, Reborn.


So sleep soundly in your beds tonight, for judgement falls upon you at first light. I'm the hand of God, I'm the dark messiah, I'm the vengeful one.

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Improving Wordiness
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Posts: 641
Founded: Dec 05, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Improving Wordiness » Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:59 pm

:rolls eyes:
I was staying away from this thread in the hope it could be civil. You could have taken the badge with grace, perhaps thanked the people who did vote for you. Instead you use this as a way to attack people who did not. Bad form.
Klaus Devestatorie wrote:I'm a massive tool. ;)

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Klaus Devestatorie
Minister
 
Posts: 2937
Founded: Aug 28, 2008
Capitalizt

Postby Klaus Devestatorie » Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:19 am

Improving Wordiness wrote::rolls eyes:
I was staying away from this thread in the hope it could be civil. You could have taken the badge with grace, perhaps thanked the people who did vote for you. Instead you use this as a way to attack people who did not. Bad form.


The one time Naivetry doesn't line every single word she's ever written with flowers, butterflies, civility and professionalism out of sheer irritation at your region, you roll out the propaganda machine and call her a bad winner. Wow. Just wow. If you weren't defenders, I'd be at a complete and utter loss to explain why XKI had any friends at all.

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Naivetry
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Posts: 1294
Founded: Aug 02, 2006
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Naivetry » Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:29 am

I told everyone last night (it was 6 am when I posted) that I would probably regret that post. And yep, I do. But it is terribly frustrating to have people slander you in the one thread you're not supposed to post in; it rather sours the whole badge business. You certainly have my apologies for being snarky, and my regrets for this last, lost opportunity to ignore lies with grace.

I do appreciate the Commendation. And as I said briefly, I am grateful to everyone who voted for it, especially those who were upset about the way TRR handled Sedge's coup of TSP. I hope you will forgive me the moment of snark.

Wordy - as I mentioned elsewhere, I'm not at all upset about the way anyone voted, and least of all XKI; I think, given our philosophical differences, I would have been rather more alarmed if you had voted for. ;) But I do ask for truth - for an enmity which is honest if it must be bitter - and that, not the vote, is what I missed.

Peace, everyone.

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Punk Reloaded
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Posts: 450
Founded: May 01, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Punk Reloaded » Thu Sep 08, 2011 5:35 am

Don't regret it Nai. When people try to distort your actions and treated to your reply, I'd say they got off easy. I liked the scrupulous politeness comment...two words you usually don't see together but it worked.

Congrats on the shiny badge...they are really cool & make a lot of the sacrifices we've all made in the game seem like there was meaning behind our actions.

joining you shortly at the retirement home,
PD
Former Delegate of The West Pacific
Former Foreign Affairs Minister, The West Pacific

Punk Reloaded - Retired
Big D Baby - Retired
Punk Daddy - Citizen of TSP

In TWP, we go Commando. - Darkesia

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