PASSED: For the Detained and Convicted

[Glomeland]

Who ever said this was an IC forum??

(OOC: HotRodia, Ardchoille, Fris, common knowledge, etc, etc.)

Then why isn't it in the forum description? I'd also like you to point out where it says that it is an IC forum....

OOC: It has traditionally been IC, but it isn't strictly enforced. You can post OOC if you like but don't be surprised if others respond to you IC or just disregard your OOC posting entirely.

[Glen-Rhodes]

OOC: It has traditionally been IC, but it isn't strictly enforced. You can post OOC if you like but don't be surprised if others respond to you IC or just disregard your OOC posting entirely.

(OOC: No, no, no. Don't be so lenient. It is enforced, but the mods only step in when we request them. By default, people should be roleplaying, but the nature of the debates sometimes allows for OOC comments.)

[Flims]

Does this resolution include unlawful combatants and terrorists, because we firmly believe in using enchanced interrogation on such people?

[R539]

OOC: It has traditionally been IC, but it isn't strictly enforced. You can post OOC if you like but don't be surprised if others respond to you IC or just disregard your OOC posting entirely.

(OOC: No, no, no. Don't be so lenient. It is enforced, but the mods only step in when we request them. By default, people should be roleplaying, but the nature of the debates sometimes allows for OOC comments.)

Then why isn't it branded "[In-Character]"?

Does this resolution include unlawful combatants and terrorists, because we firmly believe in using enchanced interrogation on such people?

Technically you could export them to a puppet nation outside the WA... And I believe you mean "enhanced".

[The Halseyist Faction]

(ooc) - ... If you seriously belived that my post orginally was out of character... Then... Uh... I don't have much else to say. And if you knew it was in character, then it's bad form to respond to an in character post in an out of character fashion, not to mention disorientating for those of us who put the effort in to be in character in the first place.

Not to mention the fact that I honestly can't see why anyone would want to debate a resoultion of the world assembly out of character, it's not like it has any real relevence to anything in the real world, unless you want to have a political arguement about the geninue rights of real people, but then this forum is the wrong place to go looking for that, I think.

But I have no desire to start an ooc debate, and thus, I shall return to being a psychotic terrorist dictator bent on New World Order.

MODEDIT - removed the regional recruitment ad.

[Glen-Rhodes]

Then why isn't it branded "[In-Character]"?

(OOC: Because common sense dictates that when you see somebody responding as "Eyðvør Eilifsdóttir, World Assembly Ambassador", they're roleplaying. And if even more people do that.. well, man, this must be a roleplaying forum! What are you getting at, anyways? Are you honestly trying to tell us that this isn't a roleplaying forum?)

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

Actually the WA forum is only partly IC, if you all want to get technical:

The World Assembly contains an element of roleplay, but often there will be a mixture of OOC comments mixed in with the purely diplomatic comments made IC. The WA is only semi-RP, and posts there are subject to more mod intervention for inappropriateness than in the other two RP forums. The WA Forum is limited to WA business in the context of the General Assembly: if a WA nation is discovered to be in violation of WA resolutions, challenges to that nation should move to NationStates or International Incidents.

Even so, it's not worth bitching about.

[Koumpounophobia]

Richard Makner stood up slowly. He blushed a bit.
"Hello, I am President Richard Makner of Koumpounophobia. I'm newly elected to replace James Newburn. Um... My nation votes for this resolution, as it pushes forward the positive changes we've been trying to institute, such as banning torture from our prisons... Thank you."

That said, he sat back down, putting his head in his hands and taking several slow steady breaths.

[The Halseyist Faction]

Colonel Hogwral can be heard muttering something offensive containing the word 'Tratior' at this point. He is a rather angry man, wearing a full millitary uniform, primarily coloured black with ice blue trimming. He is armed with a sidearm, and a rather sharp looking rapier, and his uniform is topped of with light flexible combat armour, primarily designed to resist knives and conventional projectile weapons. He looks about in his mid 40's.

[United Justice Nation]

Absolute garbage, you commit a crime, you lose your rights, simple as that.
Its hardly a deterrent.
Can I also propose that all rapists get their genitalia severed off, just to make sure they dont commit the same crime again

[Mikoyan-Guryevich]

This proposal is ridiculous.

If its passed we may as well just give the bastards a real holiday and sail them to Tahiti. Since when was prison meant to be a nice place. When it gets comfortable, you end up with those who would rather never leave.

[Ten-Pin Bowlers]

The proud Nation of Ten Pin Bowlers would like it known that if this proposal passes we will push for a repeal straight away without delay

Lord Cranker,
Delegate to the World Assembley

[Bellarine]

How can people possibly vote against this resolution?

If you right-wing psychopathic extremists ever fell into my hands, I'm sure you would wish for at least a bare minimum of legal rights and human empathy.

Aaron Davies
High Guardian of The Republic of Bellarine

[The Halseyist Faction]

'There is no excuses for such failure. If any of our citizens fell into your so called hands, they would deserve whatever you merited out to them. There certainly would be no place for them in the Halseyist faction.'

[R539]

How can people possibly vote against this resolution?

If you right-wing psychopathic extremists ever fell into my hands, I'm sure you would wish for at least a bare minimum of legal rights and human empathy.

Aaron Davies
High Guardian of The Republic of Bellarine

CAUTION: [I'm a] RIGHT-WING EXTREMISTS

How am I psychopathic? It's my proposal! Apparently no one pays attention to me...

[Glen-Rhodes]

Even so, it's not worth bitching about.

(OOC: There's never anything to not bitch about. >:] ... )

[New Rockport]

How can people possibly vote against this resolution?

If you right-wing psychopathic extremists ever fell into my hands, I'm sure you would wish for at least a bare minimum of legal rights and human empathy.

Aaron Davies
High Guardian of The Republic of Bellarine

One need not be a right-wing psychopathic extremist to oppose this hastily drafted piece of legislation. I refer your Excellency to a few reasonable arguments against this legislation, from earlier in this debate:

While we applaud the efforts of the authors of this resolution to secure rights for the detained and convicted, we have unfortunately found some errors which will prevent us from supporting it.

Defines:
1. “Detainees” as any person(s) held in captivity by authorities accused of a crime(s), prior to conviction.

Sometimes persons are held by "authorities" for varying periods without actually being accused of a crime. We are also troubled by the use of the rather vague term "authorities". "Police" or "law enforcement" might have been better choices.

1. That the detained:
a. are considered the accused until proven guilty;

Not all legal systems operate under this construct.

b. shall be informed as to the nature of the offense;

"Offense" presumes that the person has in fact committed an offense. "The charges against them" or similar would have been much better.

2. That the convicted:
a. (i) if sentenced to prison, be given accommodations of a reasonable comfort level;
(ii) shall be placed in an area of adequate security level for the offense;

Are you sure the offense is the correct determining factor here? The threat posed by (or to) the person would seem more relevant.

g. (i) if misbehaved, may be punished and temporarily lose rights listed as (c) and (g) for an adequate time as given by a prison board or equivalent;

You have specified rights granted in sections (c) and (g) may be lost. We find it odd that this is brought up in section (g). So essentially, only the rights granted in section (c) may be taken away? Or does this have some sort of unintended effect on the operation of prison boards? We'll have to think on that some more.

In Glomeland, the rights of detained and imprisoned persons is a matter of some importance. We would have hoped that it would be addressed on the international level by a more well thought out proposal.

Eyðvør Eilifsdóttir
World Assembly Ambassador
The Republic of Glomeland

Defines:
2. “Convicts” as any person(s) accused of a crime and convicted in a court of law.

[...]

2. That the convicted:
a. (i) if sentenced to prison, be given accommodations of a reasonable comfort level;
(ii) shall be placed in an area of adequate security level for the offense;
b. shall be fed at minimum two adequate meals per day;
[...]

Are you aware that, as it is stated now, the "if sentenced to prison" clause doesn't apply to 2.b and beyond?

In other words, if someone is convicted to a fine of 5 Levs, they then get 2 meals a day (for how long?!?) ...

Ballotonia

My government supports most of the goals of this resolution. Unfortunately, I must vote against it. First, there are the flaws pointed out by my esteemed colleagues from Ballotonia and Glomeland. Then there is the matter of the presumption of innocence, which was in the original draft but was changed before the proposal was submitted. It is my hope that this bill will be defeated so that a re-draft can be submitted with the presumption of innocence restored and teh other problems addressed.

Respectfully submitted,
Silvana Rossi
Ambassador to the World Assembly, Federal Republic of New Rockport
Delegate to the World Assembly, Region of Albion

[Bellarine]

The power is beautiful, isn't it?

Bending your people (sometimes quiet literally) to your will.

Making them cower and beg. Seeing the fear in their eyes as your travel amongst them.

You have successfully created a sadistic society, with people who gleefully carry out your every, brutal command.

But at the first opportunity, such people will destroy you without mercy.

What's that, I hear someone at your bedroom door! Perhaps it's just the wind. Sleep tight.

Aaron Davies
High Guardian of the Republic of Bellarine (a true leader who loves his people)

[Lord Bucas]

How can people possibly vote against this resolution?

If you right-wing psychopathic extremists ever fell into my hands, I'm sure you would wish for at least a bare minimum of legal rights and human empathy.

Aaron Davies
High Guardian of The Republic of Bellarine

It's easy. If a psychopath every was caught lets say in a terrorist camp that a certain terrorist leader was in, my nation has already established that torture is allowed and ecouraged to get the info we need.

[Koumpounophobia]

The power is beautiful, isn't it?

Bending your people (sometimes quiet literally) to your will.

Making them cower and beg. Seeing the fear in their eyes as your travel amongst them.

You have successfully created a sadistic society, with people who gleefully carry out your every, brutal command.

But at the first opportunity, such people will destroy you without mercy.

What's that, I hear someone at your bedroom door! Perhaps it's just the wind. Sleep tight.

Aaron Davies
High Guardian of the Republic of Bellarine (a true leader who loves his people)

Richard Makner nodded at this.
"That's precisely what happened in Koumpounophobia. We simply cut the former President out of the loop. If he returns, we plan to arrest him and execute him for crimes against his people."

[Levition]

I too will push for a repeal if this resolution passes. Any threat to the security of my nation shall be dealt with how I see fit.

[Malikov]

This resolution will put too big a strain on the economy, and government, over criminals. Criminals have basic rights, that's it. They gave up all other rights when they resorted to crime. This is an idiotic peice of legislation, and anything drafted to repeal it will get my full support.

[Robbinsylvania]

Prisoners give up their rights when they commit a crime whether tuntil they are proven innocent... prison should not be something that people are ok going to.. prison should be farely close to hell on earth

No really bravo. This shows how twisted our worlds become. We might as well crucify them because they've broken the law. Hate to tell you this but prison is already hell without the help of people like you who want the most extream and meaningless forms of punishmeant

[East Molovsky]

The Communist party does not believe that crime is of benefit to the party or Our glorious Leader, hence we stick them in the Gulag!

[United Justice Nation]

Prisoners give up their rights when they commit a crime whether tuntil they are proven innocent... prison should not be something that people are ok going to.. prison should be farely close to hell on earth

No really bravo. This shows how twisted our worlds become. We might as well crucify them because they've broken the law. Hate to tell you this but prison is already hell without the help of people like you who want the most extream and meaningless forms of punishmeant

You see, this man has ideas, why did I never think of Crucifixion?