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Re: [IN QUEUE] Protection of Outer Space Act

PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 11:50 am
by Cobdenia
A well written, well vetted proposal that I'll be glad see reach the floor

Re: [IN QUEUE] Protection of Outer Space Act

PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:17 pm
by Flibbleites
Cobdenia wrote:A well written, well vetted proposal that I'll be glad see reach the floor

I was unaware that Cobdenia had a space program.

Bob Flibble
WA Representative

Re: [IN QUEUE] Protection of Outer Space Act

PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:38 pm
by New Leicestershire
Flibbleites wrote:
Cobdenia wrote:A well written, well vetted proposal that I'll be glad see reach the floor

I was unaware that Cobdenia had a space program.

Bob Flibble
WA Representative


Well there is this footage of a recent Cobdenian moon mission which we obtained from French intelligence.

David Watts
Ambassador
The Dominion of New Leicestershire

Re: [IN QUEUE] Protection of Outer Space Act

PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:39 pm
by Stash Kroh
Cobdenia wrote:A well written, well vetted proposal that I'll be glad see reach the floor


Thank you ambassador, that means a lot coming from such a respected WA contributer.

Though you may or may not need to implement the regulatory portions of this text in your nation, if it does not have a space program - you will be able to reap the benefits of having at least a greatly lowered probability of destructive hazards falling from the sky. A definite bonus if your nation's location lacks a large water area, or as in my nation's case, civilization has expanded to the oceans.

Re: [IN QUEUE] Protection of Outer Space Act

PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 2:53 am
by Bears Armed
New Leicestershire wrote:
Flibbleites wrote:
Cobdenia wrote:A well written, well vetted proposal that I'll be glad see reach the floor

I was unaware that Cobdenia had a space program.

Bob Flibble
WA Representative


Well there is this footage of a recent Cobdenian moon mission which we obtained from French intelligence.

David Watts
Ambassador
The Dominion of New Leicestershire

:rofl:

Re: [IN QUEUE] Protection of Outer Space Act

PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 7:33 pm
by Stash Kroh
New Leicestershire wrote:
Flibbleites wrote:
Cobdenia wrote:A well written, well vetted proposal that I'll be glad see reach the floor

I was unaware that Cobdenia had a space program.

Bob Flibble
WA Representative


Well there is this footage of a recent Cobdenian moon mission which we obtained from French intelligence.

David Watts
Ambassador
The Dominion of New Leicestershire


I'm afraid the health and environmental standards of the Cobdenian Astronautics Program will have to be greatly improved before their next expedition to their moon - if this proposal passes.

The crew was in direct violation of this clause in particular,
3) Forbids the intentional atmospheric reentry of any vessel, satellite, or object of non-weaponry purpose, if its reentry will endanger presents a substantial and unjustifiable risk to the health of any resident of a nation.


As these photos from the launch substantiate, the Cobdenian vessel posed a serious health risk to this sentient moon,
Image

.. not to mention the shaken and stirred extraterrestrials living in the moon's underground - as the vessel could have easily caused a collapse of the underground with its hard impact. No wonder why they reacted aggressively to the Cobdenians arrival !

Oh, and what's this ! Proof that the Cobdenian Moon Mission was faked !?

Image

Ah ha, I knew it!

Re: [IN QUEUE] Protection of Outer Space Act

PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:12 pm
by Cobdenia
The Cobdenian Government admits that footage was faked, largely as a result of needing to shew the natives who's boss. The real Cobdenian moon landing, of course, failed on account of a points failure at Clapham Junction. However, the Cobdenian space programme is not without it's successes! Last year, we became the first country to successfully land a man on Poland, and our efforts to reach the moon continue. Indeed, it gives me great pleasure to unveil Cobdenia's new space module, Cobstar 1

Image


Though it...errr...needs some work

Re: [IN QUEUE] Protection of Outer Space Act

PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 5:28 pm
by August Grey
In acknowledgment of the WA's pending protection of outer space act, I August Grey spokesman for the dominion do offer the General assembly of nations represented here the following services.

point 1 Tracking and removal of extra planetary objects. (junk)
point 2 emigration/immigration services and regulation for space faring and less advanced nations.
point 3 space station installation, maintenance, deployment, and administration

for these services all members will equally reimburse the dominion, cost +3% usage and administration fee.
The dominion of August Grey will also collect, and dispose of all items (see point 1) as we see fit.

Re: [IN QUEUE] Protection of Outer Space Act

PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:48 pm
by Malikov
The third point of the draft (currently in queue) is a loophole. from my understanding, it says that a space shuttle/ship whatever, can't enter the atmosphere of a planet, is it poses an unjustifiable risk to people of any nation. if, however, the people on the shuttle/ship would die without landing, then they can ignore the rule. Then all a nation has to do to land somewhere is say that they needed to land or the crew would die. Alternativly, they could purposely break something on the shuttle/ship, and claim that it needed emergency repairs. Either way this presents a massive loophole, which, if this were to be passed, would render the majority of the draft's purpose null, and void

Re: [IN QUEUE] Protection of Outer Space Act

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:32 am
by Bears Armed
OOC -- and this is completely OOC, not something that any of the Bears themselves has just noticed & is pointing out -- wouldn't clause #3 rather hinder interplanetary warfare? After all, although bombardment from outside the atmosphere wold still be allowed, you couldn't land any invasion forces... ;)

Re: [IN QUEUE] Protection of Outer Space Act

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 5:44 am
by Rutianas
Bears Armed wrote:OOC -- and this is completely OOC, not something that any of the Bears themselves has just noticed & is pointing out -- wouldn't clause #3 rather hinder interplanetary warfare? After all, although bombardment from outside the atmosphere wold still be allowed, you couldn't land any invasion forces... ;)


OOC: I hadn't noticed that.

IC:

Malikov wrote:The third point of the draft (currently in queue) is a loophole. from my understanding, it says that a space shuttle/ship whatever, can't enter the atmosphere of a planet, is it poses an unjustifiable risk to people of any nation. if, however, the people on the shuttle/ship would die without landing, then they can ignore the rule. Then all a nation has to do to land somewhere is say that they needed to land or the crew would die. Alternativly, they could purposely break something on the shuttle/ship, and claim that it needed emergency repairs. Either way this presents a massive loophole, which, if this were to be passed, would render the majority of the draft's purpose null, and void


Hmm. The Ambassador from Malikov is quite right. This would open interplanetary nations to a great risk. Should they be attacked by a non-WA member, they are still bound by WA law to not land invasion forces in order to defend themselves. The way it reads, it even prevents them from bring in troops from off planet as the reentry of the vessel will endanger the health of citizens from a nation, just not necessarily the nation that they're landing on. In my opinion, this should be pulled and redrafted to remove the mention of vessel from the clause or to allow for the landing of manned vessels while in armed conflict.

Paula Jenner, Rutianas Ambassador

Re: [IN QUEUE] Protection of Outer Space Act

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 6:38 am
by Qumkent
The government of the Principality of Qumkent is thoroughly opposed to this utter waste of time, and we are shocked at the complete lack of logic evident in it. The notion that the vast voids of space need environmental protection is absurd and nonsensical.


Yours,

Re: [IN QUEUE] Protection of Outer Space Act

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:27 am
by Charlotte Ryberg
We also landed people on the moon as well. The first group of astronauts were a man and a dog and they discovered that it was made of cheese. The following mission uncovered a group of mouse-like creatures that spoke in whistles and ate green soup.

Re: [IN QUEUE] Protection of Outer Space Act

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:04 am
by Malikov
Really? When my nation landed on one of our moons (OOC: different planet obviously) we found a bunch of Oompaloompas eating green eggs and ham! Another was inhabited by Foxes in Sockiz!!!

Re: [IN QUEUE] Protection of Outer Space Act

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:56 pm
by Sionis Prioratus
I think it's fabulous and a perfect companion for my draft tentatively named "Protection from Supernovae Explosions"! :bow:

Re: [IN QUEUE] Protection of Outer Space Act

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 2:30 pm
by Krioval
Qumkent wrote:The government of the Principality of Qumkent is thoroughly opposed to this utter waste of time, and we are shocked at the complete lack of logic evident in it. The notion that the vast voids of space need environmental protection is absurd and nonsensical.


The Great Chiefdom must concur with the Principality of Qumkent with regard to this issue. Krioval does not oppose caution when launching and retrieving spacefaring vehicles, but this proposal has the potential to restrict the defense of our national holdings, as well as to conduct otherwise lawful military engagements against nations that would threaten our national holdings. We also find that "outer space" does not contain anything by definition, and therefore has no environment to protect.

[Lord] Ambassador Darvek Tyvok
Great Chiefdom of Krioval

Re: [IN QUEUE] Protection of Outer Space Act

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 2:43 pm
by Stash Kroh
Bears Armed wrote:OOC -- and this is completely OOC, not something that any of the Bears themselves has just noticed & is pointing out -- wouldn't clause #3 rather hinder interplanetary warfare? After all, although bombardment from outside the atmosphere wold still be allowed, you couldn't land any invasion forces... ;)


OOC: That's taking the wording pretty far,
3) Forbids the intentional atmospheric reentry of any vessel, satellite, or object of non-weaponry purpose, if its reentry presents a substantial and unjustifiable risk to the health of any resident of a nation.


The wording discusses the reentry of a vessel, without specifying the crew.

Malikov wrote:if, however, the people on the shuttle/ship would die without landing, then they can ignore the rule. Then all a nation has to do to land somewhere is say that they needed to land or the crew would die.


IC: Yes, but only if their landing would not harm anyone, let's say -- landing in a suburbs or a rock concert, as opposed to landing in an vacant plot of ocean.

Qumkent wrote:The government of the Principality of Qumkent is thoroughly opposed to this utter waste of time, and we are shocked at the complete lack of logic evident in it. The notion that the vast voids of space need environmental protection is absurd and nonsensical.


Yours,


Its not that space needs environmental protection, honorable ambassador, its that debris can cause serious problems for travel routes and space-faring nations (or non-space-faring).

Krioval wrote:The Great Chiefdom must concur with the Principality of Qumkent with regard to this issue. Krioval does not oppose caution when launching and retrieving spacefaring vehicles, but this proposal has the potential to restrict the defense of our national holdings, as well as to conduct otherwise lawful military engagements against nations that would threaten our national holdings. We also find that "outer space" does not contain anything by definition, and therefore has no environment to protect.

[Lord] Ambassador Darvek Tyvok
Great Chiefdom of Krioval


OOC: Just curious, have you taken a look at the proposal in its newest form. I've reedited since your original input. I silently agreed that some of the clauses which you showed distaste for, should be deleted and replaced -- therefore I did.

Re: [IN QUEUE] Protection of Outer Space Act

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 3:00 pm
by Krioval
Stash Kroh wrote:OOC: Just curious, have you taken a look at the proposal in its newest form. I've reedited since your original input. I silently agreed that some of the clauses which you showed distaste for, should be deleted and replaced -- therefore I did.


OOC: The opposition is IC, not OOC. Krioval is a bit imperialistic and militaristic, so it stands to reason that anything challenging that on environmental grounds is going to cause problems. Don't expect too strong an opposition, though.

Re: [IN QUEUE] Protection of Outer Space Act

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 3:13 pm
by Stash Kroh
Krioval wrote:
Stash Kroh wrote:OOC: Just curious, have you taken a look at the proposal in its newest form. I've reedited since your original input. I silently agreed that some of the clauses which you showed distaste for, should be deleted and replaced -- therefore I did.


OOC: The opposition is IC, not OOC. Krioval is a bit imperialistic and militaristic, so it stands to reason that anything challenging that on environmental grounds is going to cause problems. Don't expect too strong an opposition, though.


OOC: Okay-dokey! No harm in trying, I suppose....

IC: Well, honorable ambassador, I believe your resistance to the proposal exists in the "supposed" complications that clause #3 creates for military personnel.

As I've stated before, that clause refers to the reentry of a vessel, and does not specify that the crew need to be non-harmful to any citizen as well.

So, as long as the entry onto your supposed target goes without complications, you're well within the legality of the proposal.

Re: [IN QUEUE] Protection of Outer Space Act

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 3:19 pm
by Stash Kroh
Charlotte Ryberg wrote:We also landed people on the moon as well. The first group of astronauts were a man and a dog and they discovered that it was made of cheese. The following mission uncovered a group of mouse-like creatures that spoke in whistles and ate green soup.


Ah yes, I humbly remember watching the footage of that iconic space mission as a youngling ...

Image

Re: [IN QUEUE] Protection of Outer Space Act

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:15 pm
by Qumkent
Stash Kroh wrote:
Its not that space needs environmental protection, honorable ambassador, its that debris can cause serious problems for travel routes and space-faring nations (or non-space-faring).



How serious exactly your Excellency ? Is space not vast enough to allow for the tiny deviations in route we are discussing?

Yours,

Re: [IN QUEUE] Protection of Outer Space Act

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:44 pm
by Stash Kroh
Qumkent wrote:
Stash Kroh wrote:
Its not that space needs environmental protection, honorable ambassador, its that debris can cause serious problems for travel routes and space-faring nations (or non-space-faring).



How serious exactly your Excellency ? Is space not vast enough to allow for the tiny deviations in route we are discussing?

Yours,


The Stash Kroh ambassador began to speak "Well you have a point ... ambasss...", when a large thud interrupted her from across the assembly which echoed from the dramatic door-kicking entrance of astronautics legend, xenoarchaeologist, and all around Space Cowboy, Captain Willie Drake McDevitt.

The ominous figure, which lacked too many appendages to count (that is, if you relied on his mangled fingerless hand to count), hobbled over to the discussion, rubbing his silverly beard with some sort of limb of his.

The Ambassador was flabbergasted, but did her best to introduce him to the crowd,
"Um, this is Captain Willie Drake McDevitt. Everybody. I''ve asked him to join us here to apply his um...wealth of knowledge and years of experience on the subject to our discussion."

She turned away from the other diplomats, and whispered directly to the Captain (whose wardrobe was attracting attention).

"Is the astronaut suit really necessary !?" she whispered.

The captain didn't listen to her, and instead approached the Qumkent ambassador.

"Now, just a second, I heard you were talking about space debris. I just wanted to clarify that dodging big rolls of frozen turd ain't easy when you're cruising at a hundred thousand miles per hour - and don't even get me started about that new warp technology stuff-fagingy. Also the most damage to your craft won't come from the big stuff, no sir-ree -- its called sand-blasting, little debris, that you can't possible look out for can cost you big problems when you're in the skies. Mostly electrical problems. But trust me, big problems."

Re: [IN QUEUE] Protection of Outer Space Act

PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:23 pm
by Krioval
Stash Kroh wrote:"Now, just a second, I heard you were talking about space debris. I just wanted to clarify that dodging big rolls of frozen turd ain't easy when you're cruising at a hundred thousand miles per hour - and don't even get me started about that new warp technology stuff-fagingy. Also the most damage to your craft won't come from the big stuff, no sir-ree -- its called sand-blasting, little debris, that you can't possible look out for can cost you big problems when you're in the skies. Mostly electrical problems. But trust me, big problems."


With all due respect, Captain, do your spacecraft come equipped with either armor plating or force shields? Secondly, you are aware that there are plenty of small objects floating in the interstellar medium that are of other than industrial origin, yes? Hence the armor plating and force shields.

[Lord] Ambassador Darvek Tyvok
Great Chiefdom of Krioval

Re: [IN QUEUE] Protection of Outer Space Act

PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 4:25 am
by Charlotte Ryberg
Stash Kroh wrote:
Charlotte Ryberg wrote:We also landed people on the moon as well. The first group of astronauts were a man and a dog and they discovered that it was made of cheese. The following mission uncovered a group of mouse-like creatures that spoke in whistles and ate green soup.


Ah yes, I humbly remember watching the footage of that iconic space mission as a youngling ...

Image

Yup honoured ambassador, that's our guys, they built the rocket out of household materials: these were also the space creatures we discovered back in the 70s, where we still thought we needed shielding:
Image

Re: [IN QUEUE] Protection of Outer Space Act

PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:05 am
by Stash Kroh
Krioval wrote:
Stash Kroh wrote:"Now, just a second, I heard you were talking about space debris. I just wanted to clarify that dodging big rolls of frozen turd ain't easy when you're cruising at a hundred thousand miles per hour - and don't even get me started about that new warp technology stuff-fagingy. Also the most damage to your craft won't come from the big stuff, no sir-ree -- its called sand-blasting, little debris, that you can't possible look out for can cost you big problems when you're in the skies. Mostly electrical problems. But trust me, big problems."


With all due respect, Captain, do your spacecraft come equipped with either armor plating or force shields? Secondly, you are aware that there are plenty of small objects floating in the interstellar medium that are of other than industrial origin, yes? Hence the armor plating and force shields.

[Lord] Ambassador Darvek Tyvok
Great Chiefdom of Krioval


The Captain's overgrown eyebrow lifted,

"I am aware of those, yes. But force shields cost a bloody fortune, and are only available to more technically progressive nations. The accumulation of space debris has increased ten-fold in high density travel zones, and has absolutely endangered both near-by planets, and astronauts -- the days of travelers only having to watch out for natural obstacles is over. There are three solutions to that problem through WA intervention that I see, 1) have the WA clean it up indefinitely (a waste of resources and time) 2) enforce high grades of shielding, which will effectively discriminate against newer, fledgling space programs, and end all space programs when the debris accumulates too much to the point that a higher grade of shielding doesn't exist or 3) we ban space littering."