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PASSED: Protection of Outer Space Act

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Rutianas
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Re: Draft: The Coordination of Outer Space Act

Postby Rutianas » Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:09 pm

The Imperial Republic actually agrees with everything but this:

Demands that Outer Space be free from entitlement, property claims or lawful jurisdiction as it is an environment shared by all, and owned by none. Exceptions regarding jurisdiction may be specified within other WA resolutions.


Surely an interstellar nation, which has more than one planet to their claim, is entitled to claim the space between the planets as their domain and defend it as they see fit. Forcing this upon interstellar nations will only be putting them in dangerous situations from non-WA members who are likely monitoring this and rubbing their hands together and waiting for something like this to pass.

Paula Jenner, Rutianas Ambassador

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Ostronopolis
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Re: Draft: The Coordination of Outer Space Act

Postby Ostronopolis » Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:12 pm

This is far too demanding on the part of the taxpayers, and effects many businesses. I say nay.
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Krioval
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Re: Draft: The Coordination of Outer Space Act

Postby Krioval » Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:21 pm

Right. Space is vacuous void right up until something previously overlooked becomes discovered, either due to advances in technology or simply because nobody bothered to look in a particular direction. The Great Chiefdom claims several regions in space to protect our national interests and to make it clear to other spacefaring nations or individuals exactly when they will be under Kriovalian surveillance to some degree. We cannot promote acts that are make light of these issues, and we would obviously prefer that the WA keep itself out of these territorial issues in general.

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Great Chiefdom of Krioval

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Stash Kroh
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Re: Draft: The Coordination of Outer Space Act

Postby Stash Kroh » Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:22 pm

And a new clause for judgement....

Establishes the Coordination of Space Consortium (C.O.S.C) between interested member nations,
to support peaceful scientific research carried out by member states regarding the environment effects of interstellar travel and Outer Space in general.

Requires the Consortium to devise new technologies and methodologies to lower the environmental footprint of space traveling if their examinations conclude that the current voyaging is having adverse effects on the environment or is potentially hazardous .


Surely an interstellar nation, which has more than one planet to their claim, is entitled to claim the space between the planets as their domain and defend it as they see fit. Forcing this upon interstellar nations will only be putting them in dangerous situations from non-WA members who are likely monitoring this and rubbing their hands together and waiting for something like this to pass.


But what if the space in between their Interstellar Empire spans severals light-years and/or other nations ? How could we make an exception for some, and none for others. I've already stricken the clause that disallowed these empire from fortifying their planets' and defending as they see fit, I don't see enough convincing evidence to support the WA allowing Interstellar Empires large grants of vacuumed space.

This is far too demanding on the part of the taxpayers, and effects many businesses. I say nay.


I'm sorry you feel this way, but I must warn you that your Space-faring Private Sector could very well be putting your nation in serious dangerous of falling space debris, or god knows what else. However, if these sectors are responsive to a little regulation, surely we could make everyone a little safer. The price of a nation having to recover after a falling piece of space junk destroys a city or worse, would be 'astronomical', much less than the required funds of this proposal.
Last edited by Stash Kroh on Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Rutianas
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Re: Draft: The Coordination of Outer Space Act

Postby Rutianas » Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:47 pm

Stash Kroh wrote:But what if the space in between their Interstellar Empire spans severals light-years and/or other nations ? How could we make an exception for some, and none for others. I've already stricken the clause that disallowed these empire from fortifying their planets' and defending as they see fit, I don't see enough convincing evidence to support the WA allowing Interstellar Empires large grants of vacuumed space.


What if's aren't in question here. If there are territorial disputes, create a committee to deal with it. What you are doing here is creating a resolution that will define the borders of other nations. The WA should not get in the habit of doing so. There are non-WA nations that will just go in and put claim on the space that this has just opened up. They'll use that to actively attack other nations from what is considered international space. They're not going to care. All you are doing is allowing non-WA interstellar empires to grow larger and more powerful while weakening WA insterstellar empires. Or is it that the WA just shouldn't care about whether or not they're weakening nations to the point where they could be invaded so easily that it's far more beneficial to just not belong to the WA? If this should ever get to the floor and pass, it will be the largest mistake the WA has ever committed.

Paula Jenner, Rutianas Ambassador

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Stash Kroh
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Re: Draft: The Coordination of Outer Space Act

Postby Stash Kroh » Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:56 pm

What if's aren't in question here. If there are territorial disputes, create a committee to deal with it. What you are doing here is creating a resolution that will define the borders of other nations. The WA should not get in the habit of doing so. There are non-WA nations that will just go in and put claim on the space that this has just opened up. They'll use that to actively attack other nations from what is considered international space. They're not going to care. All you are doing is allowing non-WA interstellar empires to grow larger and more powerful while weakening WA insterstellar empires. Or is it that the WA just shouldn't care about whether or not they're weakening nations to the point where they could be invaded so easily that it's far more beneficial to just not belong to the WA? If this should ever get to the floor and pass, it will be the largest mistake the WA has ever committed.


Okay, that clause will be struck. I see your logic. (I think I'll have to change something in the preamble too then)

However the clause that demands Outer Space been left clean and tidy, will remain, as regardless if a nation owns a plot of space, space junk has a habit of flouting off and leaving that area for a more gravitationally inclined portion of the universe.
Last edited by Stash Kroh on Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Rutianas
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Re: Draft: The Coordination of Outer Space Act

Postby Rutianas » Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:10 pm

Stash Kroh wrote:
Okay, that clause will be struck. I see your logic. (I think I'll have to change something in the preamble too then)

However the clause that demands Outer Space been left clean and tidy, will remain, as regardless if a nation owns a plot of space, space junk has a habit of flouting off and leaving that area for a more gravitationally inclined portion of the universe.


Oh, there's no argument there. If a nation has developed enough to travel in space, they should be able to clean up after themselves.

Paula Jenner, Rutianas Ambassador

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Stash Kroh
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Re: Draft: The Coordination of Outer Space Act

Postby Stash Kroh » Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:18 pm

One of my goals with this proposal was to secure the right of a smaller nation reaching space for the first time, as I don't want to see their goals of exploration hindered by property claims (such as one that inconveniently spans all around their nation). So I've added a nice, fluffy, encourage line. I hope you do not mind.

Further Encourages nations to refrain from restricting space exploration or trade routes with defensive barriers or aggressive property claims.
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Rutianas
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Re: Draft: The Coordination of Outer Space Act

Postby Rutianas » Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:27 pm

Stash Kroh wrote:One of my goals with this proposal was to secure the right of a smaller nation reaching space for the first time, as I don't want to see their goals of exploration hindered by property claims (such as one that inconveniently spans all around their nation). So I've added a nice, fluffy, encourage line. I hope you do not mind.

Further Encourages nations to refrain from restricting space exploration or trade routes with defensive barriers or aggressive property claims.



Exploration and trade would be something I actually wouldn't mind being unrestricted, provided permission from the nation is granted. For those nations who are just reaching space, I actually think that encouraging against hostile action is good. The nation may not be aware that their planet lies in the middle of someone else's territory. We've actually catalogued all planets in our system and found several that are developing nations, not yet having achieved space travel. They are, as of now, unaware of us. When they do reach space for the first time, we will, of course, let them know we are here. Perhaps an encouragement of peaceful first contact with these nations would also be in order? As well as encouragement of allowing them to have some space to 'breathe' that they can call their own? Encouragements, though. Not mandates.

Paula Jenner, Rutianas Ambassador

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Ostronopolis
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Re: Draft: The Coordination of Outer Space Act

Postby Ostronopolis » Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:29 pm

Ambassador Robert Guss Ostronopolian Diplomat To The World Assembly wrote:This is far too demanding on the part of the taxpayers, and effects many businesses. I say nay.


Ambassador from Stash Kroh to the World Assembly wrote:I'm sorry you feel this way, but I must warn you that your Space-faring Private Sector could very well be putting your nation in serious dangerous of falling space debris, or god knows what else. However, if these sectors are responsive to a little regulation, surely we could make everyone a little safer. The price of a nation having to recover after a falling piece of space junk destroys a city or worse, would be 'astronomical', much less than the required funds of this proposal.


And regulation far increases the size of government, the way I, as the Ostronopolian ambassador to the World Assembly sees it, and my government would likely agree, you are proposing a bill in which would not only increase the size of government and the amount of red tape by regulating a healthy sector, which already clearly shows responsibility, but also intrudes on our national sovereignty, and is demanding on the taxpayers, which is the backbone of an economy. Especially after the fact that through our efforts, we have decreased taxes nearly thirty percent, and this would be reversing it.
Last edited by Ostronopolis on Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Stash Kroh
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Re: Draft: The Coordination of Outer Space Act

Postby Stash Kroh » Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:33 pm

And regulation far increases the size of government, the way I, as the Ostronopolian ambassador to the World Assembly sees it, and my government would likely agree, you are proposing a bill in which would not only increase the size of government and the amount of red tape by regulating a healthy sector, which already clearly shows responsibility, but also intrudes on our national sovereignty, and is demanding on the taxpayers, which is the backbone of an economy. Especially after the fact that through our efforts, we have decreased taxes nearly thirty percent, and this would be reversing it.


Your nation's private sector might be responsible, but what about some neighboring nation's. I think it would be naive to expect every government in the universe to have good clean environmental practices in Outer Space.
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Ostronopolis
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Re: Draft: The Coordination of Outer Space Act

Postby Ostronopolis » Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:43 pm

Ambassador From Stash Kroh To The World Assembly wrote:Your nation's private sector might be responsible, but what about some neighboring nation's. I think it would be naive to expect every government in the universe to have good clean environmental practices in Outer Space.


And do you have proof of the fact that other nation's private sector is doing such things? And how do we know negative effects would happen, every piece of debris that has ever been sucked either into a star or into a black hole has never been seen again, and the most we have seen from either occurrence is nothing.
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Tanaara
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Re: Draft: The Coordination of Outer Space Act

Postby Tanaara » Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:44 pm

"No, just a plain and simple no suffices" The UnDelegate wanders off with a massive headache. New delegates should never be allowed to try and draft proposals. They always over reach themselves.
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Stash Kroh
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Re: Draft: The Coordination of Outer Space Act

Postby Stash Kroh » Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:47 pm

We've actually catalogued all planets in our system and found several that are developing nations, not yet having achieved space travel. They are, as of now, unaware of us. When they do reach space for the first time, we will, of course, let them know we are here. Perhaps an encouragement of peaceful first contact with these nations would also be in order? As well as encouragement of allowing them to have some space to 'breathe' that they can call their own? Encouragements, though. Not mandates.


This is something that had not occurred to me, I'd have to think about it.

At the moment that "Further Encourages" line already encourages that explorers be meant with peaceful cooperation, and not aggressiveness or retaliation.
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Krioval
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Re: Draft: The Coordination of Outer Space Act

Postby Krioval » Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:28 pm

Stash Kroh wrote:
GENERAL ASSEMBLY

The Coordination of Outer Space Act

Author: Stash Kroh | Category: Environment | Strength: All Business


The World Assembly abroad,

Acknowledges that Outer Space is an impossible location for some nations to even dream of exploring, let alone colonizing,

Conversely Acknowledges that it is an area frequently used by space-voyaging nations, who in many cases leave behind a hazardous trail of space debris, garbage and remains of warfare,

Utterly disappointed that nations feel they have the right to pollute this internationally encompassing environment, as space debris that is uncontrolled will not remain in one area forever and may even gravitate towards celestial bodies,


Fine so far.

Hereby

Defines “Outer Space” as a large void which occupies the rather empty areas of the universe outside the atmosphere of any planet, star or other celestial body.

Further Defines the edge of any celestial body’s atmosphere at the specific position where a craft would have to travel faster than orbital velocity in order to receive sufficient aerodynamic lift from the atmosphere to support itself.


For us non-physicists, could the honored Ambassador please explain whether this covers an entire star system or merely the individual planets or asteroids therein? The Great Chiefdom typically claims star systems at once, though we occasionally find it necessary to claim influence, if not ownership, over entire sectors of space.

Prohibits space-voyaging nations from damaging or polluting Outer Space unnecessarily, as it is a communal environment.

Further Prohibits travelers from leaving hazardous debris near a frequented travel route or within dangerous proximity to a celestial body where nations reside.


The problem here is that Krioval does not consider space to be "communal". There are neutral areas to be sure, but in those areas we follow a strict "clean up your own mess" policy. Besides, few people are going to jettison space debris into the void. Better is to throw it into an active star and let the stuff be completely assimilated into it, or at least burned up by it.

Establishes the Coordination of Space Consortium (C.O.S.C) between interested member nations to support peaceful scientific research carried out by member states regarding the environmental effects of interstellar travel and Outer Space in general.

Requires the Consortium to devise new technologies and methodologies to lower the environmental footprint of space traveling if their examinations conclude that the current voyaging is having adverse effects on the environment or is potentially hazardous .

Encourages nations to adopt the C.O.S.C’s technological designs or environmental practices if applicable, or otherwise remain outside of Outer Space until their crafts and crew are compliant with its standards.

Further Encourages nations to refrain from restricting space exploration or trade routes with defensive barriers or aggressive property claims.


Ultimately, it's space. If it's just the limitless void, there aren't really any species that suffer unduly for the occasional exploded spacecraft. The Great Chiefdom does not see a strong and compelling reason to craft an environmental protection resolution where there is really no environment to protect.

Now, if the primary threat is to interstellar trade or security, please feel free to propose legislation that addresses those issues. We might even be able to assist in the creation of such a proposal.

[Lord] Ambassador Darvek Tyvok
Great Chiefdom of Krioval

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Stash Kroh
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Re: Draft: The Coordination of Outer Space Act

Postby Stash Kroh » Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:23 pm

For us non-physicists, could the honored Ambassador please explain whether this covers an entire star system or merely the individual planets or asteroids therein? The Great Chiefdom typically claims star systems at once, though we occasionally find it necessary to claim influence, if not ownership, over entire sectors of space.


Though in all practicalness no-one is going to be flying out of the atmosphere of a star, but star's do have atmospheres of gas and therefore are included in the definition, being "Celestial Bodies". Asteroids are what I'm worried of.

However having a community on an asteroid would by this draft of the proposal's standards merely require that the community be careful about launching its waste into the skies. This seems logical to me anyway.

The problem here is that Krioval does not consider space to be "communal". There are neutral areas to be sure, but in those areas we follow a strict "clean up your own mess" policy. Besides, few people are going to jettison space debris into the void.


We will strike the "communal" part, such comments are better left for preambles anyways. As for your other comments, we're more worried about people leaving out-of-date or unresponsive space equipment just flouting in space, especially large scrap pieces. As it is in many cases cheaper for nations to leave their space junk there, then recovering it and disposing of it.

Ultimately, it's space. If it's just the limitless void, there aren't really any species that suffer unduly for the occasional exploded spacecraft. The Great Chiefdom does not see a strong and compelling reason to craft an environmental protection resolution where there is really no environment to protect.


I'd personally like the WA do some research on the subject before it declares "yeah you're not doing any harm, go at it" to everyone. Many nations have been environmentally shattered because its people underestimated its ecosystem's vulnerability in the past. I don't feel like seeing us making the same mistake with such a large encompassing environment, vacuum or not.

Also the clause in question, also means the C.O.S.C will be doing a whole host of other things, such as determine if the space junk could be hazardous to planets, in many cases this includes crunching a lot of gravitational and mathematic formulas to determine the path of the object.

Now, if the primary threat is to interstellar trade or security, please feel free to propose legislation that addresses those issues. We might even be able to assist in the creation of such a proposal.


If you feel that line is completely out of order of the category, we agree, but at the moment it stays unless I need the extra room. It seems like a good cause to me, and may be deserving of its own proposal.
Last edited by Stash Kroh on Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kulomasciovia
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Re: Draft: The Coordination of Outer Space Act

Postby Kulomasciovia » Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:57 pm

This is a very bad Act! I demand that we incinerate it at once!

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Stash Kroh
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Re: Draft: The Coordination of Outer Space Act

Postby Stash Kroh » Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:59 pm

Eh. Nevermind. I've scrapped that last clause. After reading it for a thousandth time, I've found it to stick out like a sore thumb. However it would be a great concept to cover in a Political Stability/Global Disarmament or Free Trade proposal.
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Stash Kroh
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Re: Draft: The Coordination of Outer Space Act

Postby Stash Kroh » Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:00 pm

This is a very bad Act! I demand that we incinerate it at once!


Care to tell me why? , Honored Ambassador.
Last edited by Stash Kroh on Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Stash Kroh
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Re: Draft: The Coordination of Outer Space Act

Postby Stash Kroh » Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:42 pm

Okay, I'm just giving it a trial run in the queue, so if you wish to support the current version, here it is, ambassadors.

Your comments, advice, suggestions and ripping concerning the proposal are still fully welcome here, I'm sure it will be several drafts before I get the submission that is proper for success.
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Progressive Union
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Re: Draft: The Coordination of Outer Space Act

Postby Progressive Union » Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:00 pm

Image
ROYAL FEDERATION OF NATIONS
Ambassador D. Mark Melancon - Representative


Having reviewed this proposal, I am willing to see it debated more in the entirety of the World Assembly. I therefore give my approval and hope to see this reach Quorum.

THE TECHNO-SOCIALIST REPUBLIC OF THE PROGRESSIVE UNION
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Charlotte Ryberg
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Re: Draft: The Coordination of Outer Space Act

Postby Charlotte Ryberg » Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:01 pm

It does look rather green to me than free trade, but what does other WA ambassadors think?

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Stash Kroh
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Re: Draft: The Coordination of Outer Space Act

Postby Stash Kroh » Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:22 pm

It's environmental, for sure. Especially with the latest edit that stuck out the clause regarding trade routes.

If I can in the future get this passed, I'll look in the direction of a Free Trade proposal or Political Stability, that aims to securing the right for trade routes and explorers to travel through areas of space that were previously barricaded or protected by an territorially aggressive, interstellar empire. Or atleast encourages...

Thanks for the approvals so far.
Last edited by Stash Kroh on Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Buffett and Colbert
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Re: Draft: Protection of Outer Space Act

Postby Buffett and Colbert » Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:15 pm

As of now, I see no issues with it.
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New Rockport
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Re: Draft: Protection of Outer Space Act

Postby New Rockport » Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:33 pm

The only problem I see is with this section:

Establishes the Coordination of Space Consortium (C.O.S.C) between interested member nations to support peaceful scientific research carried out by member states regarding the environmental effects of interstellar travel and Outer Space in general.

(emphasis added)

The WA is allowed to form agencies, but is not allowed to determine the agencies' members.

Other than that, this looks like a good proposal.

Respectfully submitted,
Silvana Rossi
Ambassador to the World Assembly, Federal Republic of New Rockport
Delegate to the World Assembly, Region of Albion
The Federal Republic of New Rockport


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