NationStates

Stash Kroh wrote:The Captain's overgrown eyebrow lifted,

"I am aware of those, yes. But force shields cost a bloody fortune, and are only available to more technically progressive nations. The accumulation of space debris has increased ten-fold in high density travel zones, and has absolutely endangered both near-by planets, and astronauts -- the days of travelers only having to watch out for natural obstacles is over. There are three solutions to that problem through WA intervention that I see, 1) have the WA clean it up indefinitely (a waste of resources and time) 2) enforce high grades of shielding, which will effectively discriminate against newer, fledgling space programs, and end all space programs when the debris accumulates too much to the point that a higher grade of shielding doesn't exist or 3) we ban space littering."

Captain, it is only technically progressive nations that are traveling in the interstellar void. Additionally, there is a fourth option. Let nations deal with this themselves. If the Great Chiefdom is causing problems for other spacefaring nations, we are likely to feel its effects and clean up after ourselves. I could understand if the main issue here was the effects of artificial satellites in decaying orbits, but it is not, and further, the focus of this proposal is on the environment, rather than the safety of individuals in space or on planetary surfaces. For these reasons, Krioval is opposed to this legislation.

[Lord] Ambassador Darvek Tyvok
Great Chiefdom of Krioval

Krioval wrote:

Stash Kroh wrote:The Captain's overgrown eyebrow lifted,

"I am aware of those, yes. But force shields cost a bloody fortune, and are only available to more technically progressive nations. The accumulation of space debris has increased ten-fold in high density travel zones, and has absolutely endangered both near-by planets, and astronauts -- the days of travelers only having to watch out for natural obstacles is over. There are three solutions to that problem through WA intervention that I see, 1) have the WA clean it up indefinitely (a waste of resources and time) 2) enforce high grades of shielding, which will effectively discriminate against newer, fledgling space programs, and end all space programs when the debris accumulates too much to the point that a higher grade of shielding doesn't exist or 3) we ban space littering."

Captain, it is only technically progressive nations that are traveling in the interstellar void. Additionally, there is a fourth option. Let nations deal with this themselves. If the Great Chiefdom is causing problems for other spacefaring nations, we are likely to feel its effects and clean up after ourselves. I could understand if the main issue here was the effects of artificial satellites in decaying orbits, but it is not, and further, the focus of this proposal is on the environment, rather than the safety of individuals in space or on planetary surfaces. For these reasons, Krioval is opposed to this legislation.

[Lord] Ambassador Darvek Tyvok
Great Chiefdom of Krioval

The Capitan's face turned a furious red,
"Well sir, you do know how to tick a captain off. We, the nation of Stash Kroh, might not have fancy dancy force-fields but we've certainly traveled all around the neighboring galaxies -- and dahm proud of it too! The safety of the individuals in space, and on planetary surfaces, as well as satellites is the main concern of the proposal. That's why we're dealing with the problem of space debris. Though you're Great Chiefdom seems very wise, other nations are surely not - and their ignorance will eventually compromise any of your reactive efforts -- that is, if we do not implement some sort of WA legislation on the subject."

Stash Kroh wrote:The Capitan's face turned a furious red,
"Well sir, you do know how to tick a captain off. We, the nation of Stash Kroh, might not have fancy dancy force-fields but we've certainly traveled all around the neighboring galaxies -- and dahm proud of it too! The safety of the individuals in space, and on planetary surfaces, as well as satellites is the main concern of the proposal. That's why we're dealing with the problem of space debris. Though you're Great Chiefdom seems very wise, other nations are surely not - and their ignorance will eventually compromise any of your reactive efforts -- that is, if we do not implement some sort of WA legislation on the subject."

I certainly intend no disrespect to your field of employ, Captain. However, the Great Chiefdom does not feel that this proposal will serve its intended purpose. If its primary consideration is the safety of individuals, then it should not be classified as environmental legislation. As Krioval has stated, and will continue to state, this legislation tries to do too many things. We have already noted the existence of natural obstacles to space travel, which has necessitated armor or force shields on many of our spacecraft.

Of course, for more exotic forms of travel, those defenses are typically unnecessary. We would be happy to bring in an expert in those areas to explain further, if desired.

[Lord] Ambassador Darvek Tyvok
Great Chiefdom of Krioval

Krioval wrote:

Stash Kroh wrote:The Capitan's face turned a furious red,
"Well sir, you do know how to tick a captain off. We, the nation of Stash Kroh, might not have fancy dancy force-fields but we've certainly traveled all around the neighboring galaxies -- and dahm proud of it too! The safety of the individuals in space, and on planetary surfaces, as well as satellites is the main concern of the proposal. That's why we're dealing with the problem of space debris. Though you're Great Chiefdom seems very wise, other nations are surely not - and their ignorance will eventually compromise any of your reactive efforts -- that is, if we do not implement some sort of WA legislation on the subject."

I certainly intend no disrespect to your field of employ, Captain. However, the Great Chiefdom does not feel that this proposal will serve its intended purpose. If its primary consideration is the safety of individuals, then it should not be classified as environmental legislation. As Krioval has stated, and will continue to state, this legislation tries to do too many things. We have already noted the existence of natural obstacles to space travel, which has necessitated armor or force shields on many of our spacecraft.

Of course, for more exotic forms of travel, those defenses are typically unnecessary. We would be happy to bring in an expert in those areas to explain further, if desired.

[Lord] Ambassador Darvek Tyvok
Great Chiefdom of Krioval

Adelinda grabbed a tighter grip on the Captain's leash, planting her feet firmly on the ground, as the legless man furiously clawed at the thin air -- fruitless in his attempt to strangle Ambassador Tyvok.

"Why you little fuddle-duddler, I know for a fact that by improving the environment of Outer Space we'll be saving hundreds, thousands, hell maybe even millions of lives from orbital gloom and sandblasting doom. I don't need some pencil-pushing desk boy telling me my nation's space program is out of date and inadequate because it can't keep up with the competing demands of a frozen shit storm !! Space debris has increased ten-fold since residents moved to the stars, natural obstacles are hardly the issue. This is obviously some sort of political distraction from the real problem at hand !!"

Adelinda was slowly strangling the Captain with his leash,
"Cool it, Captain !" she ordered fruitlessly at the top of her lungs.

Stash Kroh wrote:"Why you little fuddle-duddler, I know for a fact that by improving the environment of Outer Space we'll be saving hundreds, thousands, hell maybe even millions of lives from orbital gloom and sandblasting doom. I don't need some pencil-pushing desk boy telling me my nation's space program is out of date and inadequate because it can't keep up with the competing demands of a frozen shit storm !! Space debris has increased ten-fold since residents moved to the stars, natural obstacles are hardly the issue. This is obviously some sort of political distraction from the real problem at hand !!"

Adelinda was slowly strangling the Captain with his leash,
"Cool it, Captain !" she ordered fruitlessly at the top of her lungs.

There is absolutely no reason for violence, Captain, nor is there any reason to resort to petty name-calling. Though I will have you know that I am fully trained as a Kriovaller soldier and I have been working this job for just over forty-seven years, so "pencil-pushing desk boy" is inaccurate for quite a few reasons. As for the increase in space debris, outside of planetary systems, the Great Chiefdom has not noticed a significant rise in hazards, and within planetary systems, these hazards present more of a security risk than an environmental one, in our finding. That is all; there is no political distraction to be had here.

[Lord] Ambassador Darvek Tyvok
Great Chiefdom of Krioval

We find it odd that so far the WA has only managed to pass the relatively toothless "WA Environmental Council" resolution, and now this, which seems aimed at safety as much as environmental protection. Unless convincing opposing arguments are put forth Glomeland will likely support this as we have a standing policy of support for international environmental initiatives. However, in the future wouldn't it be nice to protect the surface of the planet, where people actually live?

Eyðvør Eilifsdóttir
World Assembly Ambassador
The Republic of Glomeland

Glomeland wrote:We find it odd that so far the WA has only managed to pass the relatively toothless "WA Environmental Council" resolution, and now this, which seems aimed at safety as much as environmental protection. Unless convincing opposing arguments are put forth Glomeland will likely support this as we have a standing policy of support for international environmental initiatives. However, in the future wouldn't it be nice to protect the surface of the planet, where people actually live?

Eyðvør Eilifsdóttir
World Assembly Ambassador
The Republic of Glomeland

Adelinda put her hand over the Captain's mouth before he could speak, and replied for him.

"Thank you for your support, honorable ambassador. However I must the stress the need for protection for all space-faring nations and their environments -- and reiterate the safety that this will establish for surface-dwellers of celestial bodies, who will no longer have to worry about falling space debris, and hazardous junk. I do however have a fledgling idea or two for a environmental proposal in the future regarding mining, and property rights -- however, if I see success with this proposal, I will follow it up with a resolution dealing with First Contact. In fact, even if I don't see success with this proposal, I will be following it with a proposal regarding First Contact. "

Stash Kroh wrote:however, if I see success with this proposal, I will follow it up with a resolution dealing with First Contact. In fact, even if I don't see success with this proposal, I will be following it with a proposal regarding First Contact. "

Ummm...first contact with whom? If there are multiple space-faring nations in the WA and they originated on different worlds then surely first contact has already been made because they would have made it with each other. (OOC: or did you mean something like the "Prime Directive", a sort of code of ethics on how to deal with previously uncontacted civilizations.)

That said, I very much look forward to your proposal on mining.

Eyðvør Eilifsdóttir
World Assembly Ambassador
The Republic of Glomeland

Glomeland wrote:

Stash Kroh wrote:however, if I see success with this proposal, I will follow it up with a resolution dealing with First Contact. In fact, even if I don't see success with this proposal, I will be following it with a proposal regarding First Contact. "

Ummm...first contact with whom? If there are multiple space-faring nations in the WA and they originated on different worlds then surely first contact has already been made because they would have made it with each other. (OOC: or did you mean something like the "Prime Directive", a sort of code of ethics on how to deal with previously uncontacted civilizations.)

That said, I very much look forward to your proposal on mining.

Eyðvør Eilifsdóttir
World Assembly Ambassador
The Republic of Glomeland

OOC:
Regrettably I'm a little shoddy on my Star Trek knowledge, but yes, precisely. However the proposal wouldn't even need to be space centric, though most uncontacted civilizations are isolated from the rest of the social world by vast stretches of Outer Space.

IC:

Thank you for the nod of approval, that might just spur me to get to it quicker, ambassador.

OOC: Can we please stop with the space proposals? Not only is a huge majority of the WA (and NS in general) made up of non-FT nations, but one can make up just about anything FT on the spot. A "prime directive" proposal makes about as much sense as a dragon sanctuary proposal. Don't do it.

Krioval wrote:OOC: Can we please stop with the space proposals? Not only is a huge majority of the WA (and NS in general) made up of non-FT nations, but one can make up just about anything FT on the spot. A "prime directive" proposal makes about as much sense as a dragon sanctuary proposal. Don't do it.

OOC: I wasn't intending for it to be specifically about space faring nations, actually. To a tribal community of isolates, a boat load of gun wielding foreigners look as alien as a spacecraft descending from the sky -- and proper steps to first contact need to be taken to avoid the horrific spread of disease, due to a cultural difference in immune systems.

The proposal would most likely be a Cultural Heritage category proposal.

Krioval wrote:OOC: Can we please stop with the space proposals? Not only is a huge majority of the WA (and NS in general) made up of non-FT nations, but one can make up just about anything FT on the spot. A "prime directive" proposal makes about as much sense as a dragon sanctuary proposal. Don't do it.

OOC: I agree with you in general about FT proposals. I also think that using FT or other fantastical arguments for or against proposals pretty much kills the purpose, since a hypothetical culture or species, FT or not, could be imagined that just about any WA resolution would not or should not apply to.

However, I think that the Protection of Outer Space Act is reasonable, and would apply perfectly well to a world that is similar to the real one. The United States and Russia are both space-traveling nations that would be impacted by it. (Though it does mention nations residing on other celestial bodies, but oh well.)

OOC: bump

Stash Kroh wrote:...that is, if we do not implement some sort of WA legislation on the subject."

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

SARAH HARPER: The presiding officer will now formally declare the official debate open:

PRESIDING OFFICER: Protection of Outer Space Act, a resolution to increase the quality of the world's environment, at the expense of industry. Written by Stash Kroh, the representative of the nation of Unibot. Voting ends: Thursday afternoon. I yield the floor.

SARAH HARPER: Yarr, the good ol' honoured ambassador to Unibot. We do keep outer space tidy.

Charlotte Ryberg wrote:The presiding officer will now formally declare the official debate open:

PRESIDING OFFICER: Protection of Outer Space Act, a resolution to increase the quality of the world's environment, at the expense of industry. Written by Stash Kroh, the representative of the nation of Unibot. Voting ends: Thursday afternoon. I yield the floor.

Yarr, the good ol' honoured ambassador to Unibot. We do keep outer space tidy.

OOC sorry who's the presiding officer now ?

A rather angry looking millitary armoured (and lightly armed) man rises, his shaven head directing a hostile glare to anyone who might be about to raise their words in support of the ridicious motion.

'I, Colonel Nicolas Hogwral, Representative of his most dignified Admiral Halsey, ruler of the Halseyist Faction, object in most serious terms to the passing of this restrictive piece of legislation. As a nation that to the best of our knowledge, Uniquely dwells within Low Earth Orbit, we find the World Assembly trying to dictate our garbage and recently implimented laws upon spacing criminals. (After the prior motion enforced unacceptable treatement conditions upon them). Obviously as a nation entirely located in space, we are going to generate industrial and other forms of waste, and it is utterly impratical to expect us to fly such waste down to another nation on earth for disposal. Space is a ridiciously vast entity, and if I want to hurl my broken pencil out an airlock when I'm done, I'll damn well have free will to do so.

Sailing in space is no different to doing so in water. If your not capable of suriving a hurricane, don't do it, or accept the risks when you do.

The Halseyist Faction encourages everyone to side with us on this stance, as it is niegh on impossible for us to collaborate with such ridicious legisalture, if passed.'

He remains standing, contining to direct that angry glare at the delegates. Maybe he was just going to shoot anyone who argued against him? Boy would that create an unfortunate scene...

i'm new to the WA but i voted for this act to take place i understand and i my self think it a good one

Colonel Hogwral verbally leaps upon the first person to open their mouth, and attempts to pound them into the ground with a tirade of angry sentences.

'Oh? And pray tell the Assembly why you might think such a thing, hmm? Your vote is already a matter of record, sharing it with us will not chance it. But if you have some sort of reason why you belive the destruction of the Admiral's nation and free will is, as you so quaintly put it is a 'good one', then please share it.'

The government of the Altani Federation believes that this measure would place undue restrictions and hindrances upon our emerging space program. As the space program is essential to both our national defense and our future prosperity, this is unacceptable to us. Therefore, we have no choice but to oppose it, though lauding its intent.

-Irina Misheli, Ambassador

Qumkent wrote:

Charlotte Ryberg wrote:The presiding officer will now formally declare the official debate open:

PRESIDING OFFICER: Protection of Outer Space Act, a resolution to increase the quality of the world's environment, at the expense of industry. Written by Stash Kroh, the representative of the nation of Unibot. Voting ends: Thursday afternoon. I yield the floor.

Yarr, the good ol' honoured ambassador to Unibot. We do keep outer space tidy.

OOC sorry who's the presiding officer now ?

OOC: Script clarified. The presiding officer would be another of those mythical beings that work in the HQ (no one knows what the name is). That's roleplay: some assumptions have to be made.

Charlotte Ryberg wrote:SARAH HARPER: The presiding officer will now formally declare the official debate open:

PRESIDING OFFICER: Protection of Outer Space Act, a resolution to increase the quality of the world's environment, at the expense of industry. Written by Stash Kroh, the representative of the nation of Unibot. Voting ends: Thursday afternoon. I yield the floor.

SARAH HARPER: Yarr, the good ol' honoured ambassador to Unibot. We do keep outer space tidy.

Zhildigio sprayed coffee over his khakis on that line, intercepting the cold stare of the Stash Kroh ambassador across the room.

"Um... just to clarifying ambassadors. Unibot is not affiliated with Stash Kroh anymore... remember? The whole "Unibot-has-gotten-cursed-and-now-everyone-in-Unibot-is-a-caveman" fiasco that happened shortly after my hiring?"

Thankfully most of the other ambassadors were too preoccupied with the latest televised cockfight to notice.

OOC: I am Stash Kroh's puppetmaster though.

Unibot wrote:

Charlotte Ryberg wrote:SARAH HARPER: The presiding officer will now formally declare the official debate open:

PRESIDING OFFICER: Protection of Outer Space Act, a resolution to increase the quality of the world's environment, at the expense of industry. Written by Stash Kroh, the representative of the nation of Unibot. Voting ends: Thursday afternoon. I yield the floor.

SARAH HARPER: Yarr, the good ol' honoured ambassador to Unibot. We do keep outer space tidy.

Zhildigio sprayed coffee over his khakis on that line, intercepting the cold stare of the Stash Kroh ambassador across the room.

"Um... just to clarifying ambassadors. Unibot is not affiliated with Stash Kroh anymore... remember? The whole "Unibot-has-gotten-cursed-and-now-everyone-in-Unibot-is-a-caveman" fiasco that happened shortly after my hiring?"

Well, writing a resolution is so easy a caveman can do it.

Bob Flibble
WA Representative

Flibbleites wrote:

Unibot wrote:

Charlotte Ryberg wrote:SARAH HARPER: The presiding officer will now formally declare the official debate open:

PRESIDING OFFICER: Protection of Outer Space Act, a resolution to increase the quality of the world's environment, at the expense of industry. Written by Stash Kroh, the representative of the nation of Unibot. Voting ends: Thursday afternoon. I yield the floor.

SARAH HARPER: Yarr, the good ol' honoured ambassador to Unibot. We do keep outer space tidy.

Zhildigio sprayed coffee over his khakis on that line, intercepting the cold stare of the Stash Kroh ambassador across the room.

"Um... just to clarifying ambassadors. Unibot is not affiliated with Stash Kroh anymore... remember? The whole "Unibot-has-gotten-cursed-and-now-everyone-in-Unibot-is-a-caveman" fiasco that happened shortly after my hiring?"

Well, writing a resolution is so easy a caveman can do it.

Bob Flibble
WA Representative

HHhmm.. thank you Ambassador Flibble.
It was a good read, I hadn't seen that one before. Funny and effective.

Yours
Amb. Commander Zhildigio

Unibot wrote:

Flibbleites wrote:

Unibot wrote:

Charlotte Ryberg wrote:SARAH HARPER: The presiding officer will now formally declare the official debate open:

PRESIDING OFFICER: Protection of Outer Space Act, a resolution to increase the quality of the world's environment, at the expense of industry. Written by Stash Kroh, the representative of the nation of Unibot. Voting ends: Thursday afternoon. I yield the floor.

SARAH HARPER: Yarr, the good ol' honoured ambassador to Unibot. We do keep outer space tidy.

Zhildigio sprayed coffee over his khakis on that line, intercepting the cold stare of the Stash Kroh ambassador across the room.

"Um... just to clarifying ambassadors. Unibot is not affiliated with Stash Kroh anymore... remember? The whole "Unibot-has-gotten-cursed-and-now-everyone-in-Unibot-is-a-caveman" fiasco that happened shortly after my hiring?"

Well, writing a resolution is so easy a caveman can do it.

Bob Flibble
WA Representative

HHhmm.. thank you Ambassador Flibble.
It was a good read, I hadn't seen that one before. Funny and effective.

Yours
Amb. Commander Zhildigio

Yeah, the only real problem was that half the debate was people complaining about the "unprofessional writing style."

Bob Flibble
WA Representative