[PASSED] Condemn Blackhelm Confederacy

[Andorianus]

Update is go!

Should I also draft my campaigning message here?

[Dystopianus]

Allright, I think this is ready for submitting. This is a solid proposal, and it might pass without any campaigning.

[Mostly armless]

You still have a repeated clause near the end.

ALSO NOTING the recent suppression of minorities in the Blackhelm Confederacy, where innocent people, including young children, were killed, hurt, raped, and locked in so called "salvation camps" because of their religious background,

ALSO NOTING the recent suppression of minorities in the Blackhelm Confederacy, where innocent people, including young children, were hurt, raped, executed, and locked in so called "salvation camps" because of their religious background,

ALSO SHOWING that the Confederacy has sold these minorities to work as slaves in other nations,

TERRIFIED that a nation like the Blackhelm Confederacy would perform these absolutely inhumane actions against its own innocent civilians,

LASTLY POINTING out that genocide and human trafficking are one of the many unjustified violations of human rights, and has also been deemed unacceptable by the WA,

Hereby condemns the Blackhelm Confederacy.

[Andorianus]

Just on time. I was about to submit this. Allright, I'll change "killed" to "execute".

Thank you all for your help, everyone. Now, thumbs up, and lets hope this gets approved.

[Markanite]

Allright, I think this is ready for submitting. This is a solid proposal, and it might pass without any campaigning.

Campaigning always helps

[Andorianus]

Allright then, maybe I'll campaign at all.

You are the 10K islands delegate? Well, in that case, can I send this campaigning message to you?

Greetings. A new proposal has been submitted in the security council: "Condemn Blackhelm Confederacy". As a WA Delegate it is your job to approve this proposal, and as a resolution author it is my job to convince you why.

I will keep this message as short as possible. If you need any more information about Blackhelm Confederacy or the proposal, do not hestitate to send a telegram to me. I will gladly inform you about anything you want to know.

Blackhelm Confederacy should be condemned for:
--Crimes against humanity, including but not limited to genocide, slavery, intentionally killing civillians, etc.
--Illegally annexing dozens of countries for natural resources
--Protecting a terrorist group from foreign intervention

All of the above reasons and the reasons stated in the proposal are against all standards of the World Assembly. Therefore, on behalf of the World Assembly and international goodwill, we should condemn Blackhelm Confederacy.

-Andorianus, WA member-state, author of Security Council Proposal "Condemn Blackhelm Confederacy"

Nvm, I already posted it here.

[Krakadarek]

It makes sort off sense this so called corporation is kinda pushing it......

[Novikov]

So far as all Novan nations are concerned, this proposal is unnecessary as Blackhelm Confederacy has already been nuked into oblivion.

EDIT: That said, I don't doubt all Novan nations would support this proposal.

[Globexanter]

So far as all Novan nations are concerned, this proposal is unnecessary as Blackhelm Confederacy has already been nuked into oblivion.

EDIT: That said, I don't doubt all Novan nations would support this proposal.

In a RP, you may have godmodded your way to nuking him 100%, but that is in RP. This is the WA, and what you have just suggested is a godmod. You can't nuke an entire Nation.

[Dystopianus]

So far as all Novan nations are concerned, this proposal is unnecessary as Blackhelm Confederacy has already been nuked into oblivion.

EDIT: That said, I don't doubt all Novan nations would support this proposal.

Appearently the nation has been rebuilt by the survivors. This proposal is aimed at this new nation.

Also, military intervantion can not bring the Confederacy to justice. Blackhelm Confederacy has extensive anti-missile systems, sattalite based weaponary, and an extremely large, mobile, and destructive military. A massive nuking of the Blackhelm Confederacy will no longer be possible with the new anti-missile systems in place.

^{(that, and at, and as far as I know Blackhelm Confederacy has never, ever, lost a conflict in its entire history. Except maybe for the Egyptistaani conflict, which IIRC resulted in a second war where BC did win.})

[Dystopianus]

So far as all Novan nations are concerned, this proposal is unnecessary as Blackhelm Confederacy has already been nuked into oblivion.

EDIT: That said, I don't doubt all Novan nations would support this proposal.

In a RP, you may have godmodded your way to nuking him 100%, but that is in RP. This is the WA, and what you have just suggested is a godmod. You can't nuke an entire Nation.

Tbh, you can nuke him. Although the survivors can build up a new nation just a few days after that.

Would be pretty silly if a nuked nation would be out of NS for good...

[Globexanter]

In a RP, you may have godmodded your way to nuking him 100%, but that is in RP. This is the WA, and what you have just suggested is a godmod. You can't nuke an entire Nation.

Tbh, you can nuke him. Although the survivors can build up a new nation just a few days after that.

Would be pretty silly if a nuked nation would be out of NS for good...

I never said he couldn't nuke him, but the way he said it made it sound like he nuked every single inch of his Nation.

[Novikov]

So far as all Novan nations are concerned, this proposal is unnecessary as Blackhelm Confederacy has already been nuked into oblivion.

EDIT: That said, I don't doubt all Novan nations would support this proposal.

In a RP, you may have godmodded your way to nuking him 100%, but that is in RP. This is the WA, and what you have just suggested is a godmod. You can't nuke an entire Nation.

A) The level of nuclear strikes left Blackhelm with minimal surviving infrastructure and maybe a handful of ships at sea. Effectively destroying a nation can be done without resorting to a godmod. B) You can indeed effectively destroy a nation with nuclear weapons, particularly when that nation tries to take on the combined military resources of all Dagora Doctorine signatories. C) Again, not a godmod. You'd think members of an RP region with four years experience would know what constitutes a godmod. D) I'm not here to talk about accusations of godmodding on either side. I'm simply stating what is Nova's official version of events, and is considered IC cannon.

[Globexanter]

In a RP, you may have godmodded your way to nuking him 100%, but that is in RP. This is the WA, and what you have just suggested is a godmod. You can't nuke an entire Nation.

A) The level of nuclear strikes left Blackhelm with minimal surviving infrastructure and maybe a handful of ships at sea. Effectively destroying a nation can be done without resorting to a godmod. B) You can indeed effectively destroy a nation with nuclear weapons, particularly when that nation tries to take on the combined military resources of all Dagora Doctorine signatories. C) Again, not a godmod. You'd think members of an RP region with four years experience would know what constitutes a godmod. D) I'm not here to talk about accusations of godmodding on either side. I'm simply stating what is Nova's official version of events, and is considered IC cannon.

So, instead of giving me a massive list... How many nukes did you use?

[Novikov]

A) The level of nuclear strikes left Blackhelm with minimal surviving infrastructure and maybe a handful of ships at sea. Effectively destroying a nation can be done without resorting to a godmod. B) You can indeed effectively destroy a nation with nuclear weapons, particularly when that nation tries to take on the combined military resources of all Dagora Doctorine signatories. C) Again, not a godmod. You'd think members of an RP region with four years experience would know what constitutes a godmod. D) I'm not here to talk about accusations of godmodding on either side. I'm simply stating what is Nova's official version of events, and is considered IC cannon.

So, instead of giving me a massive list... How many nukes did you use?

I didn't. I'm not a DD signatory. I don't know how many were used, nor do I care. Answering your question is just going to lead to further discussion about Nova-Blackhelm history, rather than discussing the proposal. As I stated before - in bold so you would notice - I'm just stating a Novan's opinion on the proposal. If you want answers to your question, take it up with Katanozag or some other DD signatory via TG.

[Maertilia]

OOC: Any legal references are based on English RL law. Thus legal systems in other countries may be different to what I've learned

IC:

I'm going to give you some legal advice and some criticism. To effectively convict someone of a crime (which is what we're trying to do). There needs to be two elements which the prosecution can prove to the jury (in this case the entire voting population of the WA). Those two elements are called the actus reus (guilty act) and the mens rea (guilty mind or guilty thought). I saw lots of actus reus, but didn't see much mens rea. Untill you provide some evidence of Blackhelm Confederacy's mens rea, we cannot support this proposal

Yours;

Dr Xu WA (LLD, D.Phil History
International criminal lawyer)

[Globexanter]

OOC: Any legal references are based on English RL law. Thus legal systems in other countries may be different to what I've learned

IC:

I'm going to give you some legal advice and some criticism. To effectively convict someone of a crime (which is what we're trying to do). There needs to be two elements which the prosecution can prove to the jury (in this case the entire voting population of the WA). Those two elements are called the actus reus (guilty act) and the mens rea (guilty mind or guilty thought). I saw lots of actus reus, but didn't see much mens rea. Untill you provide some evidence of Blackhelm Confederacy's mens rea, we cannot support this proposal

Yours;

Dr Xu WA (LLD, D.Phil History
International criminal lawyer)

Follow the links on the first post and your questions will be answered.

[Dystopianus]

-snip-

(EDIT: It should be noted that Andorianus and I are both the same player. Also, in Holland there would be a lot of problems if someone was seen guilty for thinking crimes, but allright then.)

Well, I didn't include those parts as much, because of 3 reasons:

1: A condemnation is aimed towards a country. A country is an object. It has no mind, therefore it has no mens ra.
2: A condemnation for thinkcrime can not be done properly, as there is no factually based evidence and the evidence that remains can easely be dismissed.
3: A condemnation must be neutral and unbiased. Therefore it must only contain facts, not opinions. This is easier to do if the proposal only contains actus reus.

For these reasons I did not state any claims of mens ra, but instead included links so that people can decide for themselves wheter Blackhelm Confederacy is guilty of mens ra. (And I do believe everyone who reads those links will be convinced that the actions performed by the Blackhelm Confederacy hadn't been done accidentally. Myself, I do believe there is a guilty mind here, even though it is uncertain who this guilty mind is*.)

Btw, are you a lawyer IRL? Or is that name on the bottom a fictional name?

[Katonazag]

To the OP:

Blackhelm Confederacy was ICly legitimately nuked in a post on 29 MAY 10 because he tried to back out on an RP he was losing badly. I'm surprised you're trying to legitimize his IC existence by issuing a condemnation...

[Blackhelm Confederacy]

What we do we do for the benefit of mankind.

[Blackhelm Confederacy]

To the OP:

Blackhelm Confederacy was ICly legitimately nuked in a post on 29 MAY 10 because he tried to back out on an RP he was losing badly. I'm surprised you're trying to legitimize his IC existence by issuing a condemnation...

Katonazag is actually a colony of the Blackhelm Confederacy btw

[Blackhelm Confederacy]

To the OP:

Blackhelm Confederacy was ICly legitimately nuked in a post on 29 MAY 10 because he tried to back out on an RP he was losing badly. I'm surprised you're trying to legitimize his IC existence by issuing a condemnation...

And I never backed out you made it impossible to carry on

[Mediterreania]

IC: Mediterreania has encountered Griffencrest before, and not on good terms. We vote yea.

OOC: They're good RPers.

[Andorianus]

Thanks, Meditereania. Allright, just 41 more approvals and 1 day and several hours left. Am I doing well?

Btw, BC, don't triple post please. And OOC discussion shouldn't belong here, we can't condemn anyone for not accepting losses. We can only condemn you for your IC actions, and by now it should be clear you are guilty. Unless you have an impossible statement that counters all the proof in the proposal?

Katonazag, in NS every country will "respawn" after a week or two, so BC still exists.

[Mythryll]

Mythryll is not a major country, but it approves.