[PASSED] Repeal: WA Environmental Council

[Darenjo]

I must admit I have yet to be swayed in either direction - sure, this repeals a toothless resolution, but the "replacement" is just as toothless...

I'll need to be persuaded to vote either way.

[Parti Ouvrier]

Abstain.

CJ
Diplomat for the DRPO

[The Cat-Tribe]

Dr. Castro has done an excellent job of outlining the many arguments against this repeal.

I'll only re-hash a few points:

1) The WAEC was deliberately intended to be an advisory body and it serves a good purpose in being such. It produces scientific material that nations may choose to improve environmental conditions. It thereby completely supports national sovereignty by leaving any implemenation (if any) to individual nations. It is not, however, useless. The purpose is to use the resources of the WA and combined science of cooperating nations to produce information that would not otherwise be available to all WA nations.

2) Contrary to the professed intentions of the author(s) of the repeal, most supporters seem to be against the idea of environmental protection -- particularly any action by the WA with more "teeth." Thus, it seems unlikely the WAEC will actually be replaced by a "better" resolution.

3) Contrary to the professed intentions of the author(s) of the repeal, the proposed replacement appears to have all of the alleged "flaws" of the original WAEC -- some of them worse than the WAEC!

4) Based on #2 and #3, either the authors of the repeal are being disingenuous (which I don't wish to believe) or they are making a serious, possibly naive, and relatively pointless gamble in repealing the WAEC. If the repeal suceeds, we will either get no replacement or we will get a replacement that is essentially no better. Big risk, little gain.

I wish I had paid attention to this earlier, as speaking out now is probably too late. Nonetheless, this isn't a good idea and I urge my esteemed colleagues to vote against this repeal.

[Flibbleites]

While we here in Nervea can agree that the resolution that created the WAEC is a bit lacking, however we do not feel that it should be repealed. Rather we feel it should be amended.

To quote a famous computer, "I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that."

Bob Flibble
WA Representative

[Tandjanni]

الريهانَي تنجننِ
الريهان انشو اكرنكو
ان الاستل، ان ايل، ان الج

On Behalf of the Light of Heaven

The Emperor finds this resolution rather confused and confusing, he admits there are a couple of minor flaws in the previous act but to ask for the destruction of a body that fights the destruction of our nations seems folly. He will oppose this resolution, if the resolution was perhaps an amendment then he would be in favour.

الش مزنِ

[Mousebumples]

The Emperor finds this resolution rather confused and confusing, he admits there are a couple of minor flaws in the previous act but to ask for the destruction of a body that fights the destruction of our nations seems folly. He will oppose this resolution, if the resolution was perhaps an amendment then he would be in favour.

Amendments are not allowed.

For further information as to why resolutions sometimes need to be repealed, I'll point you towards my post on the subject: Why repeal?.

[Moronist Decisions]

Given the relative uselessness of this particular resolution on its terms - it's almost an academic committee - we voted in favor of it.
Robert Gatwick
Deputy Chief Representative

[The Cat-Tribe]

Given the relative uselessness of this particular resolution on its terms - it's almost an academic committee - we voted in favor of it.
Robert Gatwick
Deputy Chief Representative

With all due respect, Deputy Chief Representative Gatwick, .

[Charlotte Ryberg]

The resolution was not useless, but also there's no way to amend the resolution. Therefore the only solution is to replace it.

[Draculanovia]

Why are we voting to repeal, yet once again, another useless 'law' that really doesn't do anything? If we are going to keep getting useless pointless 'laws' that have no enforcement clause, no funding clause, no description of how they are going to work, why they will work, no definite protocols or anything else in them, then why should we even be voting in new laws. I move to vote to repeal all World Assembly laws, both in the GA and the SC and to start over from scratch with nothing in effect. I also vote to write the laws, as I have experience with writing resolutions courtesy of my high school speech class and my four years of high school debate. Additionally, I would like to actually see some worthwhile laws get proposed and would be more than willing to write them so as to keep things like repealing them from being necessary.

-President Dracul
Draculanovian Head of State

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

Our legislative analysts have carefully considered the points raised by the opposition in this debate, and after much discussion, dismissed them as "typical elitist drivel." But then they were taken out and beaten for actually listening to these idiots rather than simply defenestrate them. The acting ambassador cast his vote strongly in favor of this legislation...until he was also taken out and beaten for actually bothering to vote in the WA instead of the usual Kennyite practice of pointing and laughing at them.

The official position of the Kennyite "mission" to the WA is thus:



You suck, WA.

- Jack Riley, Secretary of State

OOC: My puppet voted in favor, obviously.

[Nervea]

The Emperor finds this resolution rather confused and confusing, he admits there are a couple of minor flaws in the previous act but to ask for the destruction of a body that fights the destruction of our nations seems folly. He will oppose this resolution, if the resolution was perhaps an amendment then he would be in favour.

Amendments are not allowed.

For further information as to why resolutions sometimes need to be repealed, I'll point you towards my post on the subject: Why repeal?.

Since there is no way to amend legislation, we therefore vote against this piece of legislation.

[New Aventine]

DIscoveria is in agreement with the assessment of the repeal by Dr. Castro of Glen-Rhodes. In our analysis, the resolution seeks to abolish a scientific programme of the WA on the false premise that said programme must see its recommendations adopted in WA member states, when this was never the intention of the original resolution.

The replacement resolution discussed at http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=104306 would essentially reestablish the same scientific programme under a different name, with just one major difference - "REQUIRES member nations to assist ERO research within their nations to the best of their abilities". We find this to be a poor justification for the amount of disruption and bureaucracy that a repeal and new resolution will cause.

New Aventine concurs with the honored ambassador from Discoveria.

[Darenjo]

Chancellorial Order Number 34; Subject: General Assembly Vote on "Repeal WAEC"; International Release;

On the subject of the repeal currently at-vote in the General Assembly, a Voting Rights Transfer Form was submitted by the Darenjon WA Ambassador, Dr. Park Si-Jung, to the Darenjon Senate on May 15th, 2011. After a total of 24 hours of deliberation, the Senate was unable to come to a decision, and so, according to the WA Voting Procedure Act, the choice was transferred to the Darenjon Chancellor. On May 19th, 2011, a petition was filed to the Darenjon Supreme Court to approve Chancellorial Order Number 34, which was approved after .7 hours of deliberation.

Our ambassador to the World Assembly, Dr. Park Si-Jung, is hereby instructed to vote AGAINST the current at-vote repeal.

[Danatha]

Please vote in favor. These WA funds funding this organization should be used for humanitarian supplies.

[Retired WerePenguins]

Flash Blonde enters the chamber, listens for a minute (OOC I only read the last page) and comments, "Ladies and Gentlemen, the delegation of Retired Werepenguins is shocked! Shocked I tell you! Shocked that the delegation from Omigodtheykilledkenny is wearing ties? I'm going to call the First Navigator to immediately bring this up before the regional council. I hate ties."



"Now where was I? As yes the repeal of the WAEC. I'm all for it, of course. Now, please understand, I'm all for the environment. I don't think you realize how wonderful it is to stand naked in the middle of a barren freezing antarctic wasteland when the wind is whipping up at hurricane levels - when you are a penguin of couse which most of you can only imagine - but the fact of this repeal is this - the resolution "has no legal authority to resolve environmental problems, and is therefore powerless to act in the face of environmental problems." On the other hand, it can sure mess up the economies of all major businesses of every business in every WA nation, while, in fact DOING NOTHING. Now only if it does something, this might be worth it. But it is worse than nothing. Therefore we vote yes in favor of nothing at all, and home that something better that actually does something is eventually put in its place. Thank you."

[Danatha]

The WAEC is a waste of WA funds if it only does what this resolution says. As WA Delegate of the Grand Duchy of Danatha, this repeal has my full support.
-Grand Duke Baro Rikon, Ruler and WA Delegate of Danatha

[The Cat-Tribe]

The WAEC is a waste of WA funds if it only does what this resolution says. As WA Delegate of the Grand Duchy of Danatha, this repeal has my full support.
-Grand Duke Baro Rikon, Ruler and WA Delegate of Danatha

How much funds does it waste?

How does it waste them?

It uses WA resources to investigate environmental problems and solutions for them in ways beyond the means of individual nations and publishes the results so that individual nations may take heed if they so choose. Can you think of a way to improve the environment that is more cost-effective and more respectful of individual national sovereignty?

[The Cat-Tribe]

Flash Blonde enters the chamber, listens for a minute (OOC I only read the last page) and comments, "Ladies and Gentlemen, the delegation of Retired Werepenguins is shocked! Shocked I tell you! Shocked that the delegation from Omigodtheykilledkenny is wearing ties? I'm going to call the First Navigator to immediately bring this up before the regional council. I hate ties."

*snip*

"Now where was I? As yes the repeal of the WAEC. I'm all for it, of course. Now, please understand, I'm all for the environment. I don't think you realize how wonderful it is to stand naked in the middle of a barren freezing antarctic wasteland when the wind is whipping up at hurricane levels - when you are a penguin of couse which most of you can only imagine - but the fact of this repeal is this - the resolution "has no legal authority to resolve environmental problems, and is therefore powerless to act in the face of environmental problems." On the other hand, it can sure mess up the economies of all major businesses of every business in every WA nation, while, in fact DOING NOTHING. Now only if it does something, this might be worth it. But it is worse than nothing. Therefore we vote yes in favor of nothing at all, and home that something better that actually does something is eventually put in its place. Thank you."

The WAEC neither does nothing nor messes up the economy of any WA nation.

Not only are these claims both untrue and contradictory, but they fail to recognize the valuable role of the WAEC as an advisory group.

(I realize I am wasting my breath. Clearly this repeal will pass. I only hope a replacement will actually be supported with the same enthusiasm as this repeal.)

[Sagatagan]

As the current drive to repeal has failed to produce a replacement that is adequate, just, and not a toothless mockery of justice, the Sagat delegation has proposed a replacement:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=113709

[Krioval]

One must wonder at the environmental commitment when they seem content to light money on fire just to watch it burn.

Henrik Søgård
Imperial Chiefdom of Krioval

[Retired WerePenguins]

The WAEC neither does nothing nor messes up the economy of any WA nation.

Romana Red, Secretary for Retired Werepenguins Department of Stat Wank Analysis and Budgetary Affairs, strongly disagrees with you.

OOC: So in fact does the offical topic - Rules for GA proposals.

Environmental
A resolution to increase the quality of the world's environment, at the expense of industry.

Precisely what it sounds like. Any Environmental resolution will cause a hit to your industries while improving the environment. Any proposal written for this category should preferably talk about industry having to somehow pay for environmental improvements. Of course, this could be abstracted by saying that the government taxes industry more to implement an environmental plan of some kind.

WA GAR #42 is Environmental - All Businesses - Therefore it results in a hit to ALL INDUSTRIES while doing nothing parctical to help tjhe environment.

[ThirdEyeBlind]

The Delegation of ThirdEyeBlind would like to support this proposal on the basis of the following:

a) The WAEC has very little power to effect environmental change and urge nations to do so.
b) The expectation that every country should help with research and that research would somehow prove useful is impractical.
c) Industry and businesses still have little incentive to change their destructive ways.

That being said, we support the repealing of this.

[Glen-Rhodes]

OOC: WA GAR #42 is Environmental - All Businesses - Therefore it results in a hit to ALL INDUSTRIES while doing nothing parctical to help tjhe environment.

Citing in-game effects is useless. WAR#42 would have the same effect as cap-and-trade, which would have the same effect as mandating that businesses not impact the environment in any way, shape or form. Game mechanics does not reflect roleplay.

[The Palentine]

OOC: WA GAR #42 is Environmental - All Businesses - Therefore it results in a hit to ALL INDUSTRIES while doing nothing parctical to help tjhe environment.

Citing in-game effects is useless. WAR#42 would have the same effect as cap-and-trade, which would have the same effect as mandating that businesses not impact the environment in any way, shape or form. Game mechanics does not reflect roleplay.

Why, aren't you just peachy today! Does stuff like this come naturally to you, or do you have to work at it?
Excelsior,
excelsior,
Sen. Horatio sulla