[PASSED] Repeal "Legalizing Prostitution"

[Evraim]

Boo, twas such a good bill. I'm surprised this particular edition has gained so much popularity (with no disrespect to Her Highness or her delegation) when Charlotte's bill failed quite spectacularly. Though I respectfully disagree with the arguments presented, I wish the delegation from Alqania the best of luck on their apparent, new authorship.

"I respectfully disagree, but I suppose it would be difficult to bridge our difference in opinion so early in this discourse. I believe further measures could be taken in order to ensure a respectable amount of safety for both prostitutes and their clients. If prostitution must be legal, then so too must more stringent regulatory measures. I, however, shall join in expressing my support for the alqanian delegation's endeavor. That said, I shall rigorously oppose the novel proposal and do all in my power to ensure that when it passes, as I believe it will, it will provide for the essential regulations."

-Lord Baraç

[Parti Ouvrier]

OOC: In the strange world of NSG, absolutely anything can be determined not to have any factual basis, just because an author says so. The author of this repeal might want to check with real protitutes first before assuming there is no factual basis for something like the safety of their profession.

'The only way to work free of the risk of prosecution is to work for yourself in complete isolation.'

'If someone arranges work for other people, that is considered to be “controlling for gain”, a term that explicitly includes people working of their own free as well as those who are coerced.If someone arranges work for other people, that is considered to be “controlling for gain”, a term that explicitly includes people working of their own free as well as those who are coerced.'

'Although indoor work is criminalised, it is widely recognised as far safer than working on street. In an Australian study of 247 sex workers, 52% of illegal street workers had been raped or beaten in the past year compared with 12% of private sex workers and just 3% of brothel workers. In contrast, 40% of nurses have suffered assault or harassment at work in the past 12 '

'The majority of violence against sex workers comes from those who do not pay for sex. Many assailants express hatred of sex workers and appear to feel their actions are legitimated by society’s abhorrence for commercial sex. A substantial amount of violence to street sex workers comes from members of the ‘general public’, such as gangs of youths, local residents and vigilantes. Gangs target brothels for robbery and violent crime in the expectation sex workers will not contact the police for fear of arrest. If a migrant sex worker reports a crime against them, their visa status is investigated; if in breach they will be deported, regardless of the crime they report.'

'Few industries are as controversial as the sex industry; few industries contain such human rights abuses. Often debates are polarised and simplistic: several organisations which campaign on this issue view all prostitution as violence against women, regardless of the consent of women who have sex for money. Due in large part to criminalisation, reliable data is rare and mostly relates to criminal activity, whether sex workers are perpetrators or victims.Few industries are as controversial as the sex industry; few industries contain such human rights abuses. Often debates are polarised and simplistic: several organisations which campaign on this issue view all prostitution as violence against women, regardless of the consent of women who have sex for money. Due in large part to criminalisation, reliable data is rare and mostly relates to criminal activity, whether sex workers are perpetrators or victims.'


How very safe indeed, but of course this isn't real life, and authors of NSG resolutions can make up anything they like.
See: International Union of Sex Workers
http://www.iusw.org/
I hasen to add, this includes calling for sex worker rights to the LGBT sex workers.

IC

REGRETS that this resolution equates the criminalization of prostitution with the criminalization of prostitutes, which may lead to incorrect assumptions with regards to the effects of criminalization,

Ok but how do you explain this,...

WORRIES that while this resolution mandates that prostitutes be made fully aware of the "health or other specific risk (sic)" connected to prostitution, no such information is required to be made available to clients. Risks to clients may include:

Sexually transmitted infections,
Other infectious diseases, such as respiratory diseases, which may be transmitted through talking, kissing or other non-sexual contact between prostitute(s) and client(s),(Why are you blaming prostitutes for this when this could happen between partners?
Unwanted pregnancy and parenthood,
Injury, death and psychological trauma,
Social stigma, family and work issues,
Robbery and blackmail,

So in effect, you're implying that the prostitute themselves are a moral problem, is it not logical to conclude from that, you believe prostitutes should cracked down upon using the force of law because of these moral trangressions. I thought so to. The question is, why do you bring this up, if earlier you were challenging the conflation of criminalisation applying to both the prostitute and client? And even if some of these things are true, (and I'm not suggestiong these is a degee of truth to this) why the need for punnishing the client, wouldn't these things consitute as punnishment? Does anybody else see the glaring contradictions?

Darren Cahil

[Astro-Malsitari WA Seat]

Giovanni rubbed his temples. "The Joint Sovereign World Assembly seat casts its vote in favor and hopes that we never have to vote on another resolution about prostitution."

"Hey, that rhymes. Resolution, prostitution." He smiled.

[Parti Ouvrier]

Giovanni rubbed his temples. "The Joint Sovereign World Assembly seat casts its vote in favor and hopes that we never have to vote on another resolution about prostitution."

"Hey, that rhymes. Resolution, prostitution." He smiled.

I'm not really that surprised. I would have voted for this had there been a decriminalisation of prostitution resolution ready to take its place. [1] And include in that, as I've said months ago when this came up, offer health assurances and, if wanted, alternative employment opportunities. It would seem there is no enthusiasm for one unfortunately.

Notes
1. Despite what the author of this resolution says, it is my understanding that illegal prostitution would mean that it is highly likely that both the prostitute and client would face a criminal offence, the author, I believe, reveals this attitude by pointing out the health risks for clients, stigmatisation ect. A decriminalisation of prostitution could force the client to pay a fine (without getting a criminal record) and leave the prostitute unharrased and free to work in a regulated form.

[Damanucus]

1. Despite what the author of this resolution says, it is my understanding that illegal prostitution would mean that it is highly likely that both the prostitute and client would face a criminal offence, the author, I believe, reveals this attitude by pointing out the health risks for clients, stigmatisation ect. A decriminalisation of prostitution could force the client to pay a fine (without getting a criminal record) and leave the prostitute unharrased and free to work in a regulated form.

And you think this repeal will make it illegal? We have said this multiple times—I have said this multiple times—this repeal will not criminalize prostitution.

Horgen Dush
Representative, Nomadic Peoples of Damanucus

[ConDemmed]

1. Despite what the author of this resolution says, it is my understanding that illegal prostitution would mean that it is highly likely that both the prostitute and client would face a criminal offence, the author, I believe, reveals this attitude by pointing out the health risks for clients, stigmatisation ect. A decriminalisation of prostitution could force the client to pay a fine (without getting a criminal record) and leave the prostitute unharrased and free to work in a regulated form.

And you think this repeal will make it illegal? We have said this multiple times—I have said this multiple times—this repeal will not criminalize prostitution.

Horgen Dush
Representative, Nomadic Peoples of Damanucus

It would of course allow illegality and criminalisation of prostituion to be possible.

[Damanucus]

It would of course allow illegality and criminalisation of prostituion to be possible.

I know that, but the blanket assumption that the repeal is an automatic criminalization of prostitution is what I'm getting at.

Horgen Dush
Representative, Nomadic Peoples of Damanucus

[The Eternal Kawaii]

And you think this repeal will make it illegal? We have said this multiple times—I have said this multiple times—this repeal will not criminalize prostitution.

Horgen Dush
Representative, Nomadic Peoples of Damanucus

It would of course allow illegality and criminalisation of prostituion to be possible.

Which is why we've supported attempts to repeal this travesty of a law. The notion that sex should be viewed as an item of commerce violates nearly everything Kawaiians stand for. Imposing its legalization upon us was a gross violation of our peoples' right to choose their way of life, and a blatant act of moral arrogance on the part of this Assembly.

[New Populist Republik]

I do not believe this assembly should repeal this law without having another more comprehensive piece of legislation ready to take its place. This repeal will allow nations to persecute prostitutes and their clients by criminalizing their behavior and therefore making the profession much more dangerous for both the client and prostitute. Allowing nations to drive this business back underground and away from proper regulation will never stop prostitution, much in the same way that drug prohibition will never stop the use of drugs. We should begin to realize that in reality we can not legislate taste, not in any way that will ever be effective without being repressive. Education over criminalization is a much better option, assuming that people do not have the mental capability to make an informed decision will eventually breed contempt for government institutions.

I will not support any repeal of this unless there is another law ready to follow it that requires regular testing for STDs, minimum age requiremens, and guarentees the saftey of both the sex worker and client from government and public persecution and prosecution under the law.

[Damanucus]

I do not believe this assembly should repeal this law without having another more comprehensive piece of legislation ready to take its place. This repeal will allow nations to persecute prostitutes and their clients by criminalizing their behavior and therefore making the profession much more dangerous for both the client and prostitute. Allowing nations to drive this business back underground and away from proper regulation will never stop prostitution, much in the same way that drug prohibition will never stop the use of drugs. We should begin to realize that in reality we can not legislate taste, not in any way that will ever be effective without being repressive. Education over criminalization is a much better option, assuming that people do not have the mental capability to make an informed decision will eventually breed contempt for government institutions.

I will not support any repeal of this unless there is another law ready to follow it that requires regular testing for STDs, minimum age requiremens, and guarentees the saftey of both the sex worker and client from government and public persecution and prosecution under the law.

Even at the risk of being forced to legalize prostitution?

Stephanie Orman
Representative Intern, Nomadic Peoples of Damanucus

[New Populist Republik]

I do not believe this assembly should repeal this law without having another more comprehensive piece of legislation ready to take its place. This repeal will allow nations to persecute prostitutes and their clients by criminalizing their behavior and therefore making the profession much more dangerous for both the client and prostitute. Allowing nations to drive this business back underground and away from proper regulation will never stop prostitution, much in the same way that drug prohibition will never stop the use of drugs. We should begin to realize that in reality we can not legislate taste, not in any way that will ever be effective without being repressive. Education over criminalization is a much better option, assuming that people do not have the mental capability to make an informed decision will eventually breed contempt for government institutions.

I will not support any repeal of this unless there is another law ready to follow it that requires regular testing for STDs, minimum age requirements, and guarantees the safety of both the sex worker and client from government and public persecution and prosecution under the law.

Even at the risk of being forced to legalize prostitution?

Stephanie Orman
Representative Intern, Nomadic Peoples of Damanucus

Yes, most definitely.

I believe that if this assembly allows members to persecute and put their very own citizens in a situation where they can not get the same advantages from their judicial system, health care system, and tax system, as the rest of the population based on the legislation of morality or taste, then this institution has outlived it's usefulness and skirted it's duties to the international community.

Don Persia
Retired General/Chief Representative Voice of The New Populist Republik

[Damanucus]

*snip snip snip*

But surely they have a good reason as to why they want to outlaw it.

Stephanie Orman
Representative Intern, Nomadic Peoples of Damanucus

[New Populist Republik]

But surely they have a good reason as to why they want to outlaw it.

Stephanie Orman
Representative Intern, Nomadic Peoples of Damanucus

The reason for wanting to outlaw it does not matter. What does matter is the implications of doing so.

If I believed that the citizens of the international community would be better off if we left this up to their respective governments then I would support this. But I have not seen a convincing argument that allowing nations to outlaw prostitution would in any way have a positive effect either in terms of health, safety, and protection under the law against predatory business practices (such as abusive pimps and sex slavery). If anything it would increase the amount of STDs due to absence of licensing and regular medical examinations, and you would definitely see a rise in violent crimes against professional sex workers since they would not have equal protection under the law.

Don Persia
Retired General/Chief Representative Voice of The New Populist Republik

[The United Soviet Socialist Republic]

how could you people even think about passing this abomination?illegalizing prostitution would not only increase crime it would make the women who work in prostitution vulnerable to dieseses and not to mention it would drasticaly hurt the economy,all in all OPPOSED.

[Sanctaria]

I find myself rather amused at the amount of people who think a repeal of "Legalising Prostitution" directly correlates to it being mandatory illegal in every WA nation.

If WA member nations want to continue having prostitution legal, the repeal of this WA Resolution won't make a difference to that.

[Damanucus]

But I have not seen a convincing argument that allowing nations to outlaw prostitution would in any way have a positive effect either in terms of health, safety, and protection under the law against predatory business practices (such as abusive pimps and sex slavery). If anything it would increase the amount of STDs due to absence of licensing and regular medical examinations, and you would definitely see a rise in violent crimes against professional sex workers since they would not have equal protection under the law.

A nice little error in fact there, my dear fellow. Just because it isn't legal doesn't always mean it will cause more problems when it is undertaken.

1. That doesn't occur because of lack of regular examinations. That occurs because of laziness. You see that outside of prostitution. If you're implying that, because "working girls and guys" are in a criminalized industry, they will increase the chance of STDs, then I'm afraid you are very much mistaken. If there are less prostitutes, the rate could still go up, and if it does, it will be because of the legal population more than the "criminal" population.
2. You wish to be certain of that. Regardless on where you are, there will be people who perceive prostitutes as lower-class. In an country where it is outlawed, again, there could (and most likely will) be less prostitutes, and thus less targets (and less targets per area), and less exposure for the targets. If you want to work off percentages in terms of abuse, be my guest, but be reasonable with yourself here, the numbers will be reduced.

Now, the repeal has stated perfectly reasonable arguments which make "Legalize Prostitution" unworkable. Now for your nice little arguing, it has already been addressed from the Ambassador from the Great Zavi's behaviour, which has been equal to your behaviour now: Cultural Imperialism. You shouldn't ever push your opinions down another's throat, let alone a whole committee's, as that is simply what it is. Develop your facts, my good Sir, then properly present your case.

Horgen Dush
Representative, Nomadic Peoples of Damanucus

[Damanucus]

Excuse the double post, but it needs to be said...again, apparently.

Okay, I'm going to say this one last time, for everyone that didn't hear the first few thousand times. I shall quote from the transcripts, even.

Common misconception when dealing with repeals: Repealing this resolution WILL NOT automatically outlaw prostitution in all WA member states. Rather, each WA member state will be able to (*gasp*) determine for themselves whether or not prostitution should be illegal within their own member state.

We aren't criminalizing it; the repeal will just put the option back into the hands of the individual governments. That has already been made very clear.

This repeal is not making prostitution illegal! This repeal is making it so that your government can make up its mind whether to legalise it, or not.

It has already been said that this repeal will not criminalize it. Multiple times.

You do realize that repealing the Resolution does not automatically make prostitution illegal in all member-states? A repeal cannot create new laws, only remove existing ones. All this repeal would do is allow those of us who do not want prostitution, or, in case of Zaklen's government, any form of adultery, to outlaw the practice. If you wish for prostitution to remain legal within your borders, go ahead. Having something that was already legal remain legal can in no way increase the burden on your police force.

For the last time, this will not ban prostitution, it simply gives a nation the right to choose if they want to ban prostitution. If you want to continue with policies similar to that of the legislation then go ahead. Don't force it onto other nations.

I find myself rather amused at the amount of people who think a repeal of "Legalising Prostitution" directly correlates to it being mandatory illegal in every WA nation.

If WA member nations want to continue having prostitution legal, the repeal of this WA Resolution won't make a difference to that.

Multiple representatives, multiple occasions, have already stated that this repeal will not criminalize prostitution, but simply put the choice back in the hands of individual nations. To say you are opposed because it will criminalize is by and large the worst, most easily defeated reason. So in short, if that's your reason for opposing, pick another.

Horgen Dush
Representative, Nomadic Peoples of Damanucus

Okay, it's off my chest now. As you were.

[New Populist Republik]

A nice little error in fact there, my dear fellow. Just because it isn't legal doesn't always mean it will cause more problems when it is undertaken.

1. That doesn't occur because of lack of regular examinations. That occurs because of laziness. You see that outside of prostitution. If you're implying that, because "working girls and guys" are in a criminalized industry, they will increase the chance of STDs, then I'm afraid you are very much mistaken. If there are less prostitutes, the rate could still go up, and if it does, it will be because of the legal population more than the "criminal" population.
2. You wish to be certain of that. Regardless on where you are, there will be people who perceive prostitutes as lower-class. In an country where it is outlawed, again, there could (and most likely will) be less prostitutes, and thus less targets (and less targets per area), and less exposure for the targets. If you want to work off percentages in terms of abuse, be my guest, but be reasonable with yourself here, the numbers will be reduced.

Now, the repeal has stated perfectly reasonable arguments which make "Legalize Prostitution" unworkable. Now for your nice little arguing, it has already been addressed from the Ambassador from the Great Zavi's behaviour, which has been equal to your behaviour now: Cultural Imperialism. You shouldn't ever push your opinions down another's throat, let alone a whole committee, as that is simply what it is. Develop your facts, my good Sir, then properly present your case.

Horgen Dush
Representative, Nomadic Peoples of Damanucus

I do not see how your arguments are any more supported by fact than mine. You seem to be basing your conclusions on assumptions. I also do not wish to push it down the throat of others. If others did not want prostitution then they would not practice it on an individual basis. The very fact that it exists means that people obviously want it, otherwise there would be no reason to form legislation regarding it.

I also recognize that the wording of the "Legalize Prostitution" law is unworkable, but I don't think the solution is to repeal it without first trying to add necessary provisions to the existing law.

I am also perfectly aware that this bill does not criminalize prostitution. My view is that allowing nations to criminalize this behavior at their own discretion is a violation of human and labor rights. This is my view on the subject, if it is not widely held then the voting will reflect that, but I do not appreciate being patronized because of my difference of opinion.

I feel we have reached a point of fundamental disagreement that is unlikely to be resolved in any manner of discourse.

Good Day, Representative.

Don Persia
Retired General/Chief Representative Voice of The New Populist Republik

[Damanucus]

I also recognize that the wording of the "Legalize Prostitution" law is unworkable, but I don't think the solution is to repeal it without first trying to add necessary provisions to the existing law.

Which you can't do. To quote the rules, as created by the the esteemed gatekeeper from The Most Glorious Hack:

You can't amend Resolutions. Period. You can't add on, you can't adjust, you can't edit. If you want to change an existing Resolution, you have to Repeal it first.

There is also a rule regarding House of Cards underneath it, which would further cause you troubles:

"RECALLING Resolution #3, #4, #34, #36, #67, and #457..."

This is becoming problematic. If those Resolutions are repealed, you've gutted the base of your own Resolution. Also, we start to run into issues for new proposals.

A Proposal must be able to stand on its own even if all referenced Resolutions were struck from existance; however, you may assign duties to an existing committee. Should the Resolution that creates the committe be Repealed, the committee will continue to exist, but in a reduced capacity. If your Proposal "builds on" an existing Resolution, you're ammending that resolution. Excessive back referencing is not acceptable either. Create a new Proposal, don't just parrot existing ones. (see: Duplication)

Horgen Dush
Representative, Nomadic Peoples of Damanucus

[Bears Armed]

Allowing nations to drive this business back underground and away from proper regulation will never stop prostitution, much in the same way that drug prohibition will never stop the use of drugs

or the same way that theft prohibition will never stop the committing of theft and racism prohibition will never stop people holding racist opinions? And yet I don't see anybody trying to put forwards a 'Legalizing Theft' proposal, or a 'Legalizing Racism' one...

[Damanucus]

Allowing nations to drive this business back underground and away from proper regulation will never stop prostitution, much in the same way that drug prohibition will never stop the use of drugs

or the same way that theft prohibition will never stop the committing of theft and racism prohibition will never stop people holding racist opinions? And yet I don't see anybody trying to put forwards a 'Legalizing Theft' proposal, or a 'Legalizing Racism' one...

Or a "Legalizing Drugs" one either, on that note, Mister Bear.

On that note, to the ambassador from New Populist Republik, we do entrust these nations to develop laws regarding theft and drugs and many other topics. Yet you do not entrust the topic of prostitution with these same nations. It does sound a little...patronising, in fact. And hypocritical.

Comment?

Horgen Dush
Representative, Nomadic Peoples of Damanucus

[Retired WerePenguins]

Now clearly one cannot use national sovereignty arguments for a repeal but you can definitely use them in an argument for the need for a replacement. I really have to raise the question of why is this type of resolution necessary? Why is it needed at all?

Is this a matter that involves international borders, so that the actions of one nation impacts yours? Is this a matter of absolute fundamental inalienable rights so vital that one would possibly be willing to go to war to ensure that no one violates them? Somehow I think this doesn't apply in this case.

The simple fact (it does get complicated when you consider the regions) is that in order for any resolution to pass you need the direct or indirect consent of a majority of nations (either through direct voting or through the giving of endorsements to delegates who vote for their region) which means that if a replacement were to pass, clearly a majority of the nations would have legal prostitution anyway (I mean voting to have the WA impose something on you that you don't want to do yourself is stupid) so what is the real reason?

Suppose, for the sake of silly argument, my nation were to build sex robots with replaceable, disposable and highly sanitary necessary body parts. Prostitution would be both unnecessary and dangerous. Suppose, for the sake of another silly argument, my nation were to nationalize the industry, and in so doing, provide the service for free (well they have to pay taxes but that's a minor issue). There are all sorts of scenarios that can be envisioned. That's the wonder of nations, they can do the strangest things. A one size fits all approach is only logical when it's a necessary and ideal situation.

I don't really care if the sex workers in the nation of Idontcareistan have to evade the morality police. If they were serious, they would rise up, purchase our arms (they can get them wholesale but for this cause I'll even give a discount) and change their nation's laws. I do care if crappy resolutions result in crappy laws that our nation cannot improve upon because of WA mandate.

RWPO Elizabeth (Z) Brown PFN

[DanHoMe]

Honored delegates of the World Assembly

It is not the prostitute that should be punished its the person buying sex who should be punished! The legalization of prostitution favors women and men. Mainly this concerns poor and marginalized women, who are the ones which willingly or unwillingly apply for this line of work. Wee can not illegalize the womans right to her own body. It would be an unfeminist thing to do.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

DanHoMe
National info http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=160697&p=8216102&hilit=DanHoMe#p8216102

[Gatchina Ministry of Foreign Affairs]

It amazes me just how prevalent illiteracy is in some nations. I will say it now, just so Damanucus doesn’t blow a gasket; this repeal does not criminalise prostitution! If you wish to keep it legal in your nation, that’s fine. This repeal will not automatically make prostitution illegal in your nation. You can still be in favour of the legalisation of prostitution in your nation and still vote for this repeal, the two are not mutually exclusive. Are we all clear?

-Col. George Hentzau
Minister of Foreign Affaris
Supreme & Exalted Empire of Gatchina
The Holy Moosean Empire

[Damanucus]

It amazes me just how prevalent illiteracy is in some nations. I will say it now, just so Damanucus doesn’t blow a gasket; this repeal does not criminalise prostitution! If you wish to keep it legal in your nation, that’s fine. This repeal will not automatically make prostitution illegal in your nation. You can still be in favour of the legalisation of prostitution in your nation and still vote for this repeal, the two are not mutually exclusive. Are we all clear?

-Col. George Hentzau
Minister of Foreign Affaris
Supreme & Exalted Empire of Gatchina
The Holy Moosean Empire

Thankyou for stepping in before I did; I have been warned about what heightened emotion can do to my health. If I blow a gasket now, it may have irreversible effects.

Now clearly one cannot use national sovereignty arguments for a repeal but you can definitely use them in an argument for the need for a replacement. I really have to raise the question of why is this type of resolution necessary? Why is it needed at all?

Is this a matter that involves international borders, so that the actions of one nation impacts yours? Is this a matter of absolute fundamental inalienable rights so vital that one would possibly be willing to go to war to ensure that no one violates them? Somehow I think this doesn't apply in this case.

The simple fact (it does get complicated when you consider the regions) is that in order for any resolution to pass you need the direct or indirect consent of a majority of nations (either through direct voting or through the giving of endorsements to delegates who vote for their region) which means that if a replacement were to pass, clearly a majority of the nations would have legal prostitution anyway (I mean voting to have the WA impose something on you that you don't want to do yourself is stupid) so what is the real reason?

Suppose, for the sake of silly argument, my nation were to build sex robots with replaceable, disposable and highly sanitary necessary body parts. Prostitution would be both unnecessary and dangerous. Suppose, for the sake of another silly argument, my nation were to nationalize the industry, and in so doing, provide the service for free (well they have to pay taxes but that's a minor issue). There are all sorts of scenarios that can be envisioned. That's the wonder of nations, they can do the strangest things. A one size fits all approach is only logical when it's a necessary and ideal situation.

I don't really care if the sex workers in the nation of Idontcareistan have to evade the morality police. If they were serious, they would rise up, purchase our arms (they can get them wholesale but for this cause I'll even give a discount) and change their nation's laws. I do care if crappy resolutions result in crappy laws that our nation cannot improve upon because of WA mandate.

RWPO Elizabeth (Z) Brown PFN

Your arguments may seem silly on the surface, Ms Brown, but as you are probably well aware, they do make a good point, and pretty much echo the reasoning that we had for not wanting the original resolution to pass, and are now repealing here today.

Horgen Dush
Representative, Nomadic Peoples of Damanucus