PASSED: Liberate belgium

[Mexar]

Actually, I took Belgium with the help of a bunch of my personal friends and region members. The other 3 regions mentioned, helped us with WA endorsements AFTER I became delegate, so that I can keep the position easier.

And yeah, Belgium is important. That's why I took it, with a fight, and that's why you are trying to take it back from me, but without fighting. Quality over quantity - we were in small numbers (I had less men than Belgium's delegate actually) and we still took the region. Because we are good at invading and fighting for what we conquer.

And you are all good at writing proposals and insulting us.

Without fighting? Nope. The proposal makes it POSSIBLE to fight back, but we still have to fight against an experienced enemy who is expecting us. I'd say the fight that will come after this proposal passes will be harder than your fight to take Belgium in the first place.

[Northern Chittowa]

There is more than one way to skin a cat as they say. War/military manoeuvres etc are just as much about diplomacy and backroom dealings than just the numbers being put down on the ground.

[Daynor]

And yeah, Belgium is important. That's why I took it, with a fight, and that's why you are trying to take it back from me, but without fighting.

This proposal won't remove the delegate will it???

I thought this only removes the password... which would mean natives and defenders would still have to 'fight' you, to get the region back...

[Veilyonia]

And yeah, Belgium is important. That's why I took it, with a fight, and that's why you are trying to take it back from me, but without fighting.

Please notify me if the definition of "fight" has been changed to "stealing something while nobody is looking." We still do have to fight you for the region, there just won't be an invisible wall (i.e. password) for you to hide behind this time.

[Goobergunchia]

And yeah, Belgium is important. That's why I took it, with a fight, and that's why you are trying to take it back from me, but without fighting.

This proposal won't remove the delegate will it???

I thought this only removes the password... which would mean natives and defenders would still have to 'fight' you, to get the region back...

The ambassador from Daynor is correct. This resolution does not obviate the need for combat operations.

[float=right][/float][Lord] Michael Evif
Goobergunchian UN Ambassador
Retired Officer, Nasicournia

[Warner Channel]

This Liberate Belgium thing is pathetic. If your region was that important then it should have been able to defend itself from this type of thing.

I find you all hillarious and I think that the whole idea of the WA taking a region back is laughable.

You are sick.

*promptly pukes his guts out*

[Dysian]

Come on now, don't make it personal. He's actually kind of right.

[Vinoslavia]

This Liberate Belgium thing is pathetic. If your region was that important then it should have been able to defend itself from this type of thing.

I find you all hillarious and I think that the whole idea of the WA taking a region back is laughable.

You are sick.

*promptly pukes his guts out*

LOL!.

I just think that it's people like Dysian and nations who actively engage in raiding, such as Mencer and Macedonia who are the only people who put any sort of life into this game. Of course I would disagree with someone invading Belgium IF THIS WAS REAL.

But It's a game. And I just personally find it funny. Seeing as there is no other real way within Nationstates to build up an Empire of sorts, I think that this is an essential element of the game.
Of course role play and a bit of imagination is important but surely some kind of fight would have looked a little less wimpy.

[Goobergunchia]

[OOC:

I feel that a liberation resolution such as this one also furthers the goal of putting life into the game. This resolution doesn't automagically remove Dysian as delegate from Belgium, it just allows others to try to remove him. Effectively, this resolution puts one more region back "in play" for the raiding game -- currently, Belgium is just in a "game over" locked-down state, which isn't (IMO) that interesting.]

[Dysian]

well opposite of what many of my rivals claim, founderless regions WON'T die off this way - a founder dies more often than a region gets raided. Therefor, people should find themselves OTHER regions to play with (there are, and always will be, plenty of those) - Belgium is MINE

[Mary Queen of Scots]

I agree it is a great issue and must be dealt with quickly. Can't we just have one law that free's all of their invaded Regions.


Mary Stuart

[Goobergunchia]

While the Security Council had been drained of its water in the days following the events of the previous resolution, it was still extremely damp. Lord Evif had apparently decided to not let this ruffle him.

While our resolution, "Liberate belgium", will not be put before the World Assembly for a vote for another few hours, I will not be present on the floor when it is officially laid down. Therefore, I wish to open floor debate on this measure by simply restating what has already been said on the subject. As all parties have conceded, the region of Belgium is under occupation by invaders from Macedon, Mencer, and allies. The only way to permit the natives of Belgium to reclaim their region is through World Assembly action to lift the regional password and bar its reimposition.

The World Assembly cannot by itself compel a change in delegacy. This resolution does not force Wallonia-Flanders from the delegate's seat in Belgium. But it allows the original residents of Belgium to call in friends from other regions, giving them a chance to fight back. Without this chance, we are forced to conclude that Belgium will eventually fall, be it in weeks or months.

The occupiers claim that they have a right to occupy Belgium indefinitely, and if you agree with them, then you should vote against this resolution. But if you disagree, and you think that the natives of Belgium deserve a chance to have their region back, you should stand with me and vote in favor of this resolution.

I urge a vote FOR the resolution "Liberate belgium".

[float=right][/float][Lord] Michael Evif
Ambassador to the United Nations and any successor organizations
Liberal Unitary Republic of Goobergunchia
Retired Officer, Nasicournia

[Martyrdoom]

As the ambit of liberations are neutral and merely allow free-entry to all nations by taking the password off, then the following is illegal/invalid:

"The only way to permit the natives of Belgium to reclaim their region is through World Assembly action to lift the regional password and bar its reimposition." And: "and you think that the natives of Belgium deserve a chance to have their region back, you should stand with me and vote in favor of this resolution."

Liberations are not looking to re-constitute things how they were pre-invasion as it would illegalise retrospectively currently legal gameplay i.e. invading, invasion-griefing etc. The former natives may have reason to "re-claim" Belgium but they have no right, certainly no right above any other nation that may want to join the region. The removal of the password is not the exclusive preserve of the former natives but is proposed for the benefit of every other nation wanting "free-entry".

The following line from the submitted proposal invalidates everything, "it would impossible for the natives of Belgium to reclaim their region,". That is preference and bias when liberations are supposed to above reproach, and above politics. Instead liberation is being used politically.

As I've just wrote on another thread, liberations reward lacksidasical defending while punishing true raiding success.

[Unibot]

Liberations are not looking to re-constitute things how they were pre-invasion as it would illegalise retrospectively currently legal gameplay i.e. invading, invasion-griefing etc. The former natives may have reason to "re-claim" Belgium but they have no right, certainly no right above any other nation that may want to join the region. The removal of the password is not the exclusive preserve of the former natives but is proposed for the benefit of every other nation wanting "free-entry".

Nothing about this proposal is attacking invading in general, it does however hint to the fact that several nations cannot return to their home region because of barriers in place (you can call them "natives" if you like or not), and the current sphere of political freedoms in Belgium is that of absolute despotism. It does not matter, if they are natives or not, they are above all, nations, whose freedoms to entry and residence have been disregarded, with the region itself under the arbitrary reign of a tyrannical political force. The preamble of this proposal is admirably asking for the Furtherment of Democracy to reach Belgium's political arena, by no means is the proposal suggesting the WA wants any new particular leadership in Belgium's government, its asking for some simple changes to its administrative policies concerning freedoms - thats all.

"it would impossible for the natives of Belgium to reclaim their region"

As this proposal, or any previous WASC proposal does not define "native" - this line is not legally stating that the WA believes the region belong to them as "natives". As far as English goes, native could just mean someone who resides there for a while. Now, if one were to define native as the senior residents of region, who are forever deserving of full political control over the region's parliament. Well this clause would be a problem then. But at the moment, I don't see how one can say its claiming anything more, than the current Belgian political atmosphere does not allow for any changes in government, which is something that the WA finds intolerable, having worked in the past with democratic goals.

[Martyrdoom]

I appreciate the reply but I don't buy it for a second. The term "natives" "reclaim" and "their" cuts through the rhetoric to what's really at hand.

[Charlotte Ryberg]

PRESIDING OFFICER: The first ever liberation security council resolution "Liberate belgium" is now at vote.

SARAH HARPER: I've waited for a long time for this resolution to come up. We voted FOR at the stroke of five. Good luck, ambassadors to Goobergunchia!

[Greenlandic People]

Well, I do feel bad for the plight of the native Belgians. And, I suppose it wouldn't hurt to give them their region back. So, as apathetic as I am about the Security Council, I suppose I can give this one my approval.

~Sigismund Ibsen,
WA Delegate of Lavinium

[Veilyonia]

As I have already stated many times, I will throw my full support behind this resolution. Thus far, arguments posed by those in opposition have done little to sway my stance on this issue. Belgium was one of the oldest, most vibrant nation-based communities in the entire game. I could not think of a more deserving candidate for a liberation.

[West-Flanders]

And about time it is..

The proposal was started 8th of july, the voting of the resolution is scheduled to end at 27th july. Let's say the earliest date for a liberation attempt is 28th july.. by then 3 weeks have gone by! And that's only for the resolution to get approved. And don't expect us to succeed in dethroning the invader delegate the very first day as he'll will be watching like a hawk the first days and weeks. After all, there's little surprise effect to it.

Proposals are drafted, have to be accepted, wait in line, a resolution has to approved... red tape all around! Meanwhile, a region is bleeding to death. It's 55 days today since Belgium has fallen, almost two months! If we in Belgium weren't all old farts with a huge history, it could have been game over already. And once a region is refounded, no liberation resolution is gonna help anymore. And it's not about the excisting community alone.. in the meantime there aren't any new entries as well. Belgians who're new to NS are likely to chose a random region if they discover Belgium is passworded.

[Travancore-Cochin]

OOC:
It's amazing to see the spinners from Macedon/Mencer at work. Now, if only they could play Cricket...

IC:

On behalf of the Republic of Travancore-Cochin, I shall vote FOR the resolution.

We wish the natives of Belgium all the best in reclaiming their home from griefers.

A. Parameswaran Nair
Ambassador from Travancore-Cochin to the World Assembly

[Chazicaria]

I vote YES

[Metania]

Don't the people of Mencer & co. portray themselves as great warriors?

Then why do they have a problem with having to show their continued prowess to control a region that, indeed, they snuck up on and took over with great finesse? Indeed, if their opinion of their abilities is so high, then they should be able to hold off anyone who even remotely tries to retake Belgium, burgeoning their reputation in the process. Why, they would be so excellent as to not even need a password to protect their work--because they would be just that good at it.

After all, what kind of a warrior hides behind an indefinite password protect and hopes no one will ever fix that game oversight, eh? Doesn't take much skill to do that--skill to take the region, but not to let a password prevent any further tests of might.

[Unibot]

I appreciate the reply but I don't buy it for a second. The term "natives" "reclaim" and "their" cuts through the rhetoric to what's really at hand.

Um... well, I tried.

---

The Unibotian government will be politically demanding that its region supports this bill. With such an cause as Belgium, it should be easy as *insert catchy simile here* to sway their votes. I look forward to seeing a freed region.


Yours
Kuno Krugner
Unibot

[Draegos]

The Philosophical Conundrum of Draegos approves of this resolution. It does, however, note the few errors in wording. Nevertheless, as all is well and good, I will telegram my delegate and urge him/her/it(we can never tell) to vote FOR this resolution.

[Durdastan]

Free belgium and accept nothing until belgium is liberated.




Long live Durdastan and Long Live New Sorvun