NationStates

Posted: **Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:58 am**

Araraukar wrote:
Our nation is against this legislation and cannot comprehend the overwhelming support for this resolution.

OOC: It's called the lemming effect. People who are too lazy to read the text either vote according to the majority numbers, or on the title.

OOC: or for things that they think would, if the resolutions applied to/in those players' own RL homelands, make RL nicer for those players themselves...

Posted: **Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:31 am**

I put it forward this legislation represents a huge overreach of the world assembly and severe loss of state sovereignty. How the citizens of each of our great nations work with law enforcement is irrelevant to other states. Specific rules to hold public forums in large cities and across the whole state will cost large amounts of money, could easily fail, and have very little benefit. The impact of this legislation is too large at a state level and too low at an international level to be considered.

Posted: **Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:50 am**

Arpak wrote:Fellow members of the World Assembly,

Alas, in such tumultuous times such as these, let us not forget the importance of well-educated and trained police and military <snip>

- World Assembly Ambassador of the Arpakian People, Hans Dortman

Perhaps you can explain how we manage to have low crime without the defense spending and 0.3% on law and order? Answer, you can't. Why? You're completely loyal to your own ideological propaganda and have no problem forcing this onto others. Besides the patronising tone of this resolution, we're being forced to waste money on something we do not need.

Posted: **Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:57 am**

I for one, found this acceptable. Our local police already live among our citizens, and crime rates are fairly low. I'll have to consult some of the chicken farmers away from the grand cit, but I see no harm in more spending of "money".

Posted: **Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:00 am**

Communist EU wrote:
Arpak wrote:Fellow members of the World Assembly,

Alas, in such tumultuous times such as these, let us not forget the importance of well-educated and trained police and military <snip>

- World Assembly Ambassador of the Arpakian People, Hans Dortman

Perhaps you can explain how we manage to have low crime without the defense spending and 0.3% on law and order? Answer, you can't. Why? You're completely loyal to your own ideological propaganda and have no problem forcing this onto others. Besides the patronising tone of this resolution, we're being forced to waste money on something we do not need.

Comrade, it seems there has been a fundamental misunderstanding.

We apologize if we indeed, sounded patronizing.

Our goal was nothing more but to promote greater synchronicity between the revolutionary forces, in order to achieve a more effective Worldwide Socialist Revolution when that takes place, as well as to maintain our ideological beliefs intact and unpolluted by external bourgeois interference, such as the ideas attempted to be implanted to all true Socialist nations by capitalist/fascist alliances, such as the one that is Nazi Europa: the idea of plenty fueled by the sweat and slavery of the Working Class, through its systematic exploitation and oppression.

A well organized police and military force, is not only necessary in order to protect our peoples but also our/their ideology against the corrupting capitalist/imperialist/fascist influence.

An ideology is necessary to coordinate the Will of Our Peoples towards the goal of Socialist Revolution, Social Equality and Justice and True Prosperity. It also gives them incentive to work and produce, something to look forward to, the sense of belonging somewhere and contributing to something essential, something that enriches and improves not only the national society, but also the World in whole, increasing productivity and employment, and thus Personal, Societal and International Prosperity. It makes sure they do not stray too far from Socialism and thus fall prey to seducing and egocentric capitalist ambitions, making also sure they do not forget the values of solidarity and equality, on which our wonderful ideology is based upon.

When people are left astray, without an ideology or spiritual leadership to lead them, they tend to be carried away by egotistical tendencies and puny consumerist ambitions. It is only a matter of time then, until they fall victims to Capitalism's vicious and seductive spirit, which turns them into nothing more but walking consumerist androids without the capability to think further of their own little self and see the greater picture. And what else, if not selfish thoughts and greed (such as the ones the aforementioned ideals breed) leads to a rise in crime numbers?

The fact that this hasn't happened in your country yet, dear Comrade, doesn't mean it won't. As I said before, it's only a matter of time.

Perhaps the lack of devotion to the Cause of the Revolution by your People is the reason for the unfortunate state of your economy, the fact that in your pursuit of greater freedom and liberties for your people, you deprived them of a philosophical guidance, an idea, a purpose, making them thus prone to corruption and unwillingness to work any more than what serves their own selfish needs.

We look forward to you joining our fight against Capitalism and Imperialism in the World , in order for the bright sun of Socialism to shine on the faces of the hard working people of the World

!
DOWN with the lethargic parasites

-World Assembly Ambassador of the Arpakian People, Hans Dortman

Posted: **Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:49 am**

Altegonnian police exist to keep the people in line as they serve the state and the country's needs. They do not need the people's respect. They do not need their understanding. They do not want it.

Posted: **Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:00 am**

Araraukar wrote:
Sciongrad wrote:OOC: The quorum isn't an obstacle meant to regulate quality, necessarily. That's the job of voters.

OOC: And when have you ever seen a quality argument win over lemming effect?

World Space Administration, for about 3 days and 23 hours. The rest is history I'd rather not revisit.

The lemming effect is real, but quality argument can win over the delegates who influence the lemming effect.

Posted: **Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:27 am**

This is simply poorly written and shouldn't exist in the first place. We shouldn't be blowing funds on an issue that doesn't exist internationally. This is not nor has it ever been an issue for my nation. Keep this issue on a national level, don't bring your fluffy "education" to my nation (Unless you'll be paying for it of course)

Posted: **Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:42 am**

The Greater Siriusian Domain would like to suggest that a proposal be made in the security counsel that Happy People Land is to be condemned for their assault on the sovereignty of the members of the World Assembly. Even if it is not their intent to do so, the passing of this farce of a proposal would set a dangerous precedent that threatens the very independence of each and every member of the World Assembly.

We would propose to condemn Happy People Land ourselves, but we lack the required number of endorsements to do so.

Posted: **Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:52 am**

Neo-Kentucky believes that issues of law enforcement should remain outside the purview of an international body and has voted no on this resolution.

Posted: **Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:59 am**

The Fascist Republic of North America will be responsible for it's own police force and is disgusted at the notion of mandatory police education throughout WA member nations. Especially in a case like this where no specifics have been stated about what the education will be besides that

they will be trained to deal with the public in a responsible and respectful manner...

The Fascist Republic of North America strongly negates the resolution and urges other WA members to do the same.

Posted: **Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:14 am**

Bears Armed wrote:
Araraukar wrote:OOC: It's called the lemming effect. People who are too lazy to read the text either vote according to the majority numbers, or on the title.

OOC: or for things that they think would, if the resolutions applied to/in those players' own RL homelands, make RL nicer for those players themselves...

OOC: I thought that was why proposals like this one get written.

Excidium Planetis wrote:World Space Administration, for about 3 days and 23 hours. The rest is history I'd rather not revisit.

OOC: I was away when that farce happened, and something getting insta-repealed doesn't mean lemming effect wasn't still in, well, effect. If you're referring to something else, you need to write it out.

The lemming effect is real, but quality argument can win over the delegates who influence the lemming effect.

Well duh, that's why lemming effect is lemming effect. The delegate votes make it look like more people voted for choice X, than voted for choice Y, and then the lemming voters rather go with X as it seems like the winning bid.

And we're being horribly unfair to actual lemmings, which aren't pack animals and exhibit none of this swarming behaviour that they've given their name to.

Posted: **Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:36 am**

Reti wrote:This is simply poorly written and shouldn't exist in the first place. We shouldn't be blowing funds on an issue that doesn't exist internationally. This is not nor has it ever been an issue for my nation. Keep this issue on a national level, don't bring your fluffy "education" to my nation (Unless you'll be paying for it of course)

Okay. We'll pay for your police to undergo these training courses 24/7. Then we'll also send in a bunch of burglars to abscond with all your museum collections and bank vaults.

Posted: **Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:05 pm**

Araraukar wrote:
Sciongrad wrote:OOC: The quorum isn't an obstacle meant to regulate quality, necessarily. That's the job of voters.

OOC: And when have you ever seen a quality argument win over lemming effect?

OOC: I would argue quality resolutions only fail if large delegates vote irresponsibly. Lemmings very rarely (although it does happen) vote against the will of large delegates that stack immediately. I will also note that while lemmings do exist, there are probably thousands of players that actually do thoughtfully consider each proposal that comes to vote. The GA is much more complicated than we sometimes make it out to be. And even if that wasn't true, the quorum still does not regulate quality. My proposal nearly failed to reach quorum while the current resolution at vote had over 200 approvals.

Posted: **Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:13 pm**

Araraukar wrote:
Excidium Planetis wrote:World Space Administration, for about 3 days and 23 hours. The rest is history I'd rather not revisit.

OOC: I was away when that farce happened, and something getting insta-repealed doesn't mean lemming effect wasn't still in, well, effect. If you're referring to something else, you need to write it out.

WSA was failing at vote from its inception until about the last hour at vote. The deciding factor was not lemmings, but 10000 Islands' delegate voting FOR right before the end.

Posted: **Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:12 pm**

The Federation of Aduran strongly supports this resolution. We believe that it is of the utmost importance to educated our protectors and those who put their lives on the line every day. I understand why many of my colleagues say this is an overreach of WA authority, however, I ask, isn't it important for the WA to insure the education of law enforcement when other states within the WA fail to do so? After all, isn't it important to insure that police officers properly serve the people?

- Happy Renalds, Aduran Ambassador to the World Assembly

Posted: **Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:44 pm**

Excidium Planetis wrote:WSA was failing at vote from its inception until about the last hour at vote. The deciding factor was not lemmings, but 10000 Islands' delegate voting FOR right before the end.

OOC: So if one superdelegate's vote changed the ending, then isn't that just proof that the delegates have too much power? And that doesn't mean lemming effect wasn't real, or that quality argument had had anything to do with 10k Islands' vote, if their delegate votes according to internal vote, as lemming effect can work in smaller scales too.

...I'm going to have to find someone to re-do the Badger Song into a Lemming Song, aren't I?

Posted: **Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:25 pm**

Arpak wrote:
Fellow members of the World Assembly,

Alas, in such tumultuous times such as these, let us not forget the importance of well-educated and trained police and military officers, for they are the ones to maintain order in times of crisis and protect the People from harm. It is they, that form a pillar of stability and security for the nation, provided they are corruption-free, obey the law word-by-word and their function is well coordinated with the one of the state. This allows them to take swift and effective action in maintaining order against not only petty and minor acts of crime but also out-of-control riots, natural catastrophes as well as terrorist attacks.
Educating both the public and police/military officers contributes to the creation of a mutually beneficial relationship, in which the law enforcement has an efficient cooperation with the citizens in combating crime and results in a society in which crime is greatly reduced, through both the cooperation of the citizens with the police, and their own law abidance.

By coordinating these efforts on a worldwide level, we take decisive steps towards the reduction, and who knows, maybe even eradication of crime, ensuring not only state but also international security and both financial and cultural prosperity.

Representing the will of the Arpakian People and the Patriotic Socialist Party of Arpak, this resolution receives my full support.

- World Assembly Ambassador of the Arpakian People, Hans Dortman

"Unfortunately, it is the consideration of the Dominion that while the goals you speak of are noble, this resolution is neither an efficient nor efficacious means of achieving them," the Mouth says. "Hence the Dominion's support of the repeal."

Posted: **Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:52 pm**

Author Of The Proposal

Someone brought up condemning me for this proposal? I would love to have that cool logo by my nation's name! JK, but what is the purpose of conditions when most people who are condemned use it like a badge of honor?

Posted: **Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:06 pm**

Happy People Land wrote:Author Of The Proposal

Someone brought up condemning me for this proposal? I would love to have that cool logo by my nation's name! JK, but what is the purpose of conditions when most people who are condemned use it like a badge of honor?

"Conveying our supreme displeasure at this piece of junk being submitted in the first place."

Posted: **Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:07 pm**

The Most Serene Republic of Hudsonvale commends The People's Republic of Happy People Land for their efforts in writing this resolution, however, it cannot vote in good conscience for this resolution, or even abstain. The Most Serene Republic notes the following flaws in the resolution's clauses, among many others, in defense of its decision to vote against the resolution at vote:

Firstly, The Most Serene Republic is professedly confused by the first clause, which is stated as "RECOGNIZING The growing distrust of law enforcement by the general public," as this seems more an issue on a nation-by-nation basis than on an international scale by any meaning or interpretation. The Most Serene Republic itself, for example, has no problem with the trust or lack thereof of its law enforcement personnel.

Secondly, The Most Serene Republic is disappointed by this resolution's forced misuse of government funds for the "[education of] the public and police on how to maintain a healthy and mutual relationship." As previously mentioned, many nations do not suffer from the issue this resolution calls attention to, only meaning these funds will go straight to waste, but more significantly, The Most Serene Republic feels this unfairly disparages the less developed members of the World Assembly, whose budgets for law enforcement may be very limited. With its current wording, the resolution by force mandates such nations to prioritize "education" rather than actual law enforcement, which in consequence may be more damaging than helpful to their civil society.

Thirdly, The Most Serene Republic is unfavorable to such strong language in a resolution addressing an issue as insignificant as this, when more voluntary wording would be much more appropriate and proper in the situation presented. When many nations have no problem with this matter of "distrust," and many others may be incapable of affording the measures to combat such "distrust," it would be verily more fit if such measures and "required" funding was made voluntary to those who actually required this issue to be addressed or those who could even afford to pay for these measures.

These are just three of the glaring problems The Most Serene Republic judged its vote against on. For the sake of brevity, others will not be described. The Most Serene Republic recommends The People's Republic of Happy People Land to resubmit this resolution should it fail to pass with more voluntary language, or be in favor of a repeal for a more appropriate piece of legislation to address this non-issue. In the mean time, The Most Serene Republic believes the members of the World Assembly who have decided to vote in favor of this ill-written resolution should reconsider, and implores those who have yet to vote to vote against it, so that better legislation than this inconsiderate, bureaucratic waste can be passed in its stead.

Posted: **Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:42 pm**

While we still oppose this bill I'm glad so many nations have come fourth to express their need for it. Now I have a nice list to forward to the Passport Agency so they can warn travelers about the dangers your police pose to them.

Araraukar wrote:...I'm going to have to find someone to re-do the Badger Song into a Lemming Song, aren't I?

Posted: **Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:21 pm**

Ambassador Geist trudges through a side wall, exiting another long session reviewing pending WA legislation.

"Though they appear to be rather split on the issue, the nations of my region have spoken clearly enough for me to comfortably cast my vote against the resolution in question. Not only is the resolution poorly written, it proposes a simplistic solution to a problem that manifests itself very differently from nation to nation, if it exists in the nation at all. This resolution should have been debated throughout the drafting process rather than submitted without review. I generally prefer resolutions that offer flexibility in their execution, but the flexibility inherent in this resolution only exists because it is poorly written and leaves too much to the imagination, to the point where the purpose of the resolution can be too easily subverted. When the arguably unnecessary and sloppy solution to a problem that may or may not exist can be virtually ignored and effectively not exist as far as compliance is concerned, the resolution should be rejected. I may support something like this in the future, provided it has teeth and actually addresses an issue that can be comfortably considered international, and consistent, in scope.

To the author of this resolution, I would like to add that by no means should my words, or the words of nearly every official who has spoken in this chamber, discourage you from continuing to participate in this process. You had good intentions and while I find it impossible to support the resolution as currently constituted, I always like to see input from nations like yourself so that our diverse and multi-faceted assembly produces legislation that demonstrates that diversity in its ideas as well as its authors."

Posted: **Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:27 pm**

We Couldnt Agree On A Name wrote:While we still oppose this bill I'm glad so many nations have come fourth to express their need for it. Now I have a nice list to forward to the Passport Agency so they can warn travelers about the dangers your police pose to them.

"I'll have to have our Immigration and Visa Service forward you our list. Over the course of several years in the World Assembly, we've managed to compile a pretty long list."

Bell shuffles some old paperwork.

"Yes, lets see...Draica, Jaresh Inyo, Stellonia, Falconia...yes, the list rather goes on a while."

Posted: **Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:43 pm**

"I've just grabbed the list of every delegate currently voting in favor of this abomination."

Votes For: 10,544: Pierconium (465), Tsunamy (339), Westnesia (316), Todd McCloud (302), BearNation (109), Caelapes (104), Lichtenstein0o (83), De La Malvarma (69), Farlandiay (67), Eldrahar (48), Ascoobis (48), El Fiji Grande (47), Atealia (44), Eisenkernland (40), Prumerica (37), Independent Federation of Croatia (35), Ainin (35), Albarusija (34), Alexiandra (30), Kronomia (30), The Emerald World (28), Taprobana (27), Burned lands (26), Egalitia (26), Noladea (24), The Flame Dawn (24), Joktria (24), Qandaristania (20), A Million Voices (19), Escanthea (18), The GrottoBay (17), The United Kingdom of New Britain (17), Corcetia (16), Gothedan (16), Timmii3 (15), The Holy Empire of the Spaghetti Monster (15), Malson (14), Greater Hawthorne (13), Vernafer (13), Lindenholt (13), Muzztopia (13), Eskaeba (12), XxXx420n0sk0p3z360 Nati0nstat3sXXd0rit0s (12), The Derrak Quadrant (12), Auremena (12), Euthrasia (11), Massentotung (11), Asarkia (11), Contrivit (11), Agham (11), Celibrae (11), Beazlend (10), The Acean Order (10), Serbior (10), Opeteck (10), Yellowoak (9), Abdoa (9), Hong Kaong (9), Veraria (9), Diyel Grandiose (9), Czechloklavicslovenslavi of Kavalkia (9), Free Atlanticans (9), Afsharid Persia (9), Egnatia (9), Central Kadigan (9), Entrits (9), Golanchia (9), Dead Tree (8), Scottsasia (8), Olvic (8), Eristia (8), Canzer (8), Arioslavia (8), Kranostav (8), Mustard Sandwiche (8), WA Klopstock (8), San Juan de Sinka (8), The Germanic European Empire (7), Lux Dominion (7), Cazzador (7), Zyonia (7), Aurea Adamas (7), Ariusgrad (7), Basim Island (7), The Eastern Antarctic State (7), Virgin Islands Of Madonna (7), Briarglen (7), Liecthenbourg (7), The United Kingdom of the Soviets (7), Byzar (7), Bazookistan (7), Kuruzubek (7), Happy People Land (7), Strag (7), SFR of Yugoslavia (7), SECP (6), Contora (6), Alan Nui (6), Lacast (6), Lennia (6), Cyrodiiill (6), Rzeczpospolita Krakowska (6), Messeren (6), Eldritch Truth (6), Morientis Wish (6), The League of The 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OOC: Or withdraw your endorsement if you're in their region.

NationStates

[PASSED] Law Enforcement Education

Massive Over Reach of the World Assembly

opposed

Reply

Agreed