[PASSED] Repeal Condemn Unknown

[Topid]

Mhm, thanks for all the delegates. I'm hoping this goes to vote tomorrow at the mid update.

[Fotar]

May I be the first to say that I am voting for this repeal.

I was the leader of the Council of Narnia at the time of the attack on our forum. We lost everything. However, I have publicly accepted Unknown's apology and do not harbor ill-will against them.

I urge everyone else to vote for this. Forgive and move on...this is the final step.

[Parti Ouvrier]

We are going to be neutral on this.

Wez Spencer
WA Ambassador to the DRPO

[Seraveean]

We are going to be neutral on this.

Wez Spencer
WA Ambassador to the DRPO

As will the Holy Empire of Seraveean.

[Topid]

Looks like a pretty straight forward pass.

Hmm, I expected more defender opposition. Maybe timing this at the same time as a major R v. D drama was perfect. There was no drama to spare here.

[Neo-Lebanon]

Vote for.

[Grub]

Unknown has hurt a lot of regions over the years and we've had to clean up their mess. I am very much against this repeal.

[Drop Your Pants]

Well Fotar posting has helped a lot. What regions have Unknown hurt grub? I'm interested what you had to clean up

[Unibot II]

Unknown has hurt a lot of regions over the years and we've had to clean up their mess. I am very much against this repeal.

I'm not sure if the destruction of regions by Unknown is anything of extreme notoriety but let's assume for the sake of argument you're correct. Let's imagine you were being condemned for the EoP fiasco, eventually people will find out these charges are false or should simply be absolved; but the parties who first supported the condemnation... they don't stop there, they want to maintain the condemnation anyway for other reasons, perhaps they think you have been one of the main obstructions to defender unity for the latter half of this decade, often slander volunteers to the defender cause as "raiders" whenever it suits your whims regardless if these good people have been on the front-lines more so than you this past year or more, furthered the endangerment of a dozen regions this past year alone by maintaining a strict policy of military independence etc. Hypothetically speaking of course. My objection to this party trying to maintain your condemnation would be that you don't deserve to be continually condemned as a "region troller" even if you deserve to be condemned for other reasons; such a policy wouldn't be justice, it would be laziness on the part of the condemners.

[Ad Infinitum]

Apology was a year late and a thousand dollars short. Though the effort is commendable, I personally applaud Unknown for acknowledging their errors (even if committed by a rogue agent, even most real-life governments would have disowned the operative), but they've still done too much harm to too many innocent people.

[Fotar]

Apology was a year late and a thousand dollars short. Though the effort is commendable, I personally applaud Unknown for acknowledging their errors (even if committed by a rogue agent, even most real-life governments would have disowned the operative), but they've still done too much harm to too many innocent people.

I ask you to explain how you, a member of TKI and not one of the regions who was attacked in the actions outlined in the condemn resolution, can say their apology was inadequate when I, who lost everything in my region and countless hours of work and dedication, can accept their apology?

Sounds to me more like partisan politics (TKI vs Unknown) than actually looking at the issue in-depth and considering what those directly impacted feel.

[Ad Infinitum]

Apology was a year late and a thousand dollars short. Though the effort is commendable, I personally applaud Unknown for acknowledging their errors (even if committed by a rogue agent, even most real-life governments would have disowned the operative), but they've still done too much harm to too many innocent people.

I ask you to explain how you, a member of TKI and not one of the regions who was attacked in the actions outlined in the condemn resolution, can say their apology was inadequate when I, who lost everything in my region and countless hours of work and dedication, can accept their apology?

Sounds to me more like partisan politics (TKI vs Unknown) than actually looking at the issue in-depth and considering what those directly impacted feel.

Not to belittle the attack on your home, we all know that's the worst thing a nation can go through in this game... but I've made sacrifices at Unknown's hand as well. Staying up late, night after night, jumping from region to region to try and stop them or undo their damage.

There's nothing partisan about it. The apology was meant to appeal to you and yours, not me and mine. It was meant to turn the softer minds of those not directly affected by the forum crash in sympathy of Unknown. Personally, seeing how late it came and how it was delightfully timed right before a repeal condemn proposal makes me think it's fueled by propaganda. They may actually mean well, and if I were in your position I'd accept the apology as well... but seeking to make amends for one mistake a whole year later isn't much of an undoing. There's still hundreds of other regions that have been hurt by these guys, and they haven't seen an iota of an apology.

[Augustus Este]

There's still hundreds of other regions that have been hurt by these guys, and they haven't seen an iota of an apology.

They weren't condemned for that

[Topid]

There's still hundreds of other regions that have been hurt by these guys, and they haven't seen an iota of an apology.

They weren't condemned for that

Eh, reading what the resolution says is boring.

From the original resolution, no one knows Unknown is a raider organization. I specifically left that out because I didn't want to Condemn Unknown for raiding. So, actually if TITO were interested in condemning their raider action, the old resolution prevents that from happening. (Well, it isn't illegal to condemn a region twice, but actually getting people to vote for it is not easy.) If TITO wants to pursue a condemnation based on raiding they could after this is repealed.

But the truth is, TITO is opposed to this because they are bitterly out to harm raider communities in any way possible, and labeling Unknown 'forum destroyers' even if it isn't fair, is more damning than a condemning them as raiders. They aren't interested in justice or doing the right thing, just scoring points. Or rather, that's what the greater part of the leadership is interested in, and the rest of them are interested in not getting ousted for disagreeing with the heads.

I thank almost every other major region for their devotion to doing the right thing.

[Sichuan Pepper]

I assume we are still debating the repeal and not TITO?

[Topid]

I assume we are still debating the repeal and not TITO?

Yes, that's why my post was entirely about TITO's vote and position on the proposal, and not any other actions TITO has taken.

Good try, though.

[Kshrlmnt]

PAI, when the original condemnation went through Unknown welcomed it as a shiny badge of pride regardless of the real reason for it. Since then, we've found that the reason for the condemn matters more to us than the condemn itself. To be condemned for an act we did not approve of and have grown to dislike even more, done by an agent who has long since turned on us; and for reactions of ours that we now regret--that isn't a condemnation we want or can be proud of.

If you want to condemn us for raiding, you're free to try; it's up to the NS community to decide if that's condemnable. A condemn for raiding we might boast of and be proud of if we chose, because raiding is what we do. But a condemnation for our much-regretted association with forum killing--that can only be shameful, and the NS community has our heartfelt thanks for helping us to move on.

[Evil Wolf]

I am very much against this repeal.

Shocking.

[A mean old man]

Thanks for the fun times everyone, specifically Uni, Sedge, and AMOM.

A blast from the past...

http://209.85.48.11/14831/181/emo/theunholytrinity.png

Peace out, Topid.

[Drop Your Pants]

I've made sacrifices at Unknown's hand as well. Staying up late, night after night, jumping from region to region to try and stop them or undo their damage.

Sorry for the slight off topic post, but that made me laugh. Thats not a sacrifice, you decided to do that and you can't go blaming Unknown for your choice of gameplay

Congrads on repeal, toodles Topid.

[Black Marne]

Well, this has been passed, so, have fun Topid. We're going to miss you.

-The New Argonian Homeland of Black Marne

[Unibot II]

Thanks for the fun times everyone, specifically Uni, Sedge, and AMOM.

A blast from the past...

http://209.85.48.11/14831/181/emo/theunholytrinity.png

Peace out, Topid.

Any symbolism behind the 1 and 5 fingers being held up by me? Liberate Land of the Liberals, SC#15?

*bearhugs Topi* Gunnna miss you bud. Just the other day I remembered the SCHQ and how it was a prism because of an off comment by you, those were good times. You be good now.