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[PASSED] Commend Deadeye Jack

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United States of Americanas
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Postby United States of Americanas » Thu May 13, 2021 3:47 pm

A ban of same sex relations? Won’t fly in my book. No vote recorded with great enthusiasm and precaution to others to check their policies. Is this what you want to commend?

No immigration computers banned children forced to work and the country uses capital punishment.

This is more badge hunting with popularity contest gaming.

Nothing personal, the SC is literally a joke. The WA actually changes stat weighting’s.

The SC, please everyone. Don’t invite me to vote in the SC and don’t waste my time with SC campaigns. I don’t want a SC badge *ever*

Thanks and no thanks! I rest my case!
Last edited by United States of Americanas on Thu May 13, 2021 3:52 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Outer Sparta
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Postby Outer Sparta » Thu May 13, 2021 4:10 pm

United States of Americanas wrote:A ban of same sex relations? Won’t fly in my book. No vote recorded with great enthusiasm and precaution to others to check their policies. Is this what you want to commend?

No immigration computers banned children forced to work and the country uses capital punishment.

This is more badge hunting with popularity contest gaming.

Nothing personal, the SC is literally a joke. The WA actually changes stat weighting’s.

The SC, please everyone. Don’t invite me to vote in the SC and don’t waste my time with SC campaigns. I don’t want a SC badge *ever*

Thanks and no thanks! I rest my case!

Not sure what you mean by "badge hunt" in this case. It's actually a well-written resolution and the nominee is commendable for their work. The other stuff you mention is practically moot or irrelevant.
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Refuge Isle
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Postby Refuge Isle » Thu May 13, 2021 5:25 pm

United States of Americanas wrote:Nothing personal, the SC is literally a joke. The WA actually changes stat weighting’s.

Heaven forbid we take a minute to celebrate a player based on their merits.
United States of Americanas wrote:The SC, please everyone. Don’t invite me to vote in the SC and don’t waste my time with SC campaigns. I don’t want a SC badge *ever*

Voting is voluntary, not compulsory. If you wish to abstain because you don't believe in the premise of the institution, that is your prerogative, but coming here to specifically dunk on it through that indifferent perspective doesn't make sense. Just stay home.
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Tinhampton
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Postby Tinhampton » Thu May 13, 2021 6:36 pm

I have cast my (now-)twelve votes against this proposal for various reasons:
  1. It claims that the "Fort Triumph Marshal Service provided crucial stability to defending at a time of great political turmoil." How this "stability" was achieved when reference is almost immediately made to Jack's "completing 57 missions, including leading 5 of those missions" - presumably a relatively low number of defences, although over what time period is not specified - is unclear.
  2. It boasts that Jack's work helped guarantee that "accurate information about defender accomplishments will be available for future generations, including its own extensive participation in defending operations [...]." As far as I know, I have not seen or received any public resources where anybody, regardless of affiliation to TGW, can access this "accurate information."
  3. It refers to raiders as "darkspawn." While this fits with TGW's theme, such informal and questionable language should be confined to TGW's own defending updates and reports, not official Security Council resolutions.
  4. It assigns to Dead I Jack credit for "initiat[ing] and guid[ing] a legislative debate to establish an independent The Rejected Realms Media Corporation with a dedicated Editor-in-Chief." In fact, The Rejected Times' independence from TRR's government predates the Constituting Act. The Act was, in addition, originally proposed by The Grim Reaper (and seconded by Bormiar and Gorundu) - not Dead I Jack.
  5. It asserts that "In Deadeye Jack’s most recent term [as Officer of Culture, they maintained] a Culture Calendar with daily cultural events, ensuring continued activity on TRR’s communication platforms." The events so described were not, in fact, daily: Dead I Jack effectively gave up on his Culture Calendar series around the end of September 2020, halfway through his term. A Leaf on the Wind, TRR's delegate at the time, herself admitted that "The amount of preparation was deemed too much for the amount of overall participation."
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HumanSanity
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Postby HumanSanity » Fri May 14, 2021 10:35 am

Hi Tin! Glad to see you went through to justify voting against after you had decided to do so. Your criticisms are largely dogwater addressed elsewhere in this thread, so I'll respond.

Tinhampton wrote:It claims that the "Fort Triumph Marshal Service provided crucial stability to defending at a time of great political turmoil." How this "stability" was achieved when reference is almost immediately made to Jack's "completing 57 missions, including leading 5 of those missions" - presumably a relatively low number of defences, although over what time period is not specified - is unclear.

The Fort Triumph Marshal Service existed at a time of instability politically for defending as referenced by the resolution. Specifically, this meant during some of the throws of the chaos of the UDL and mass exodus of officer talent from TITO (with BT's banning being the most common reference point, but including a handful of other departures both before and after BT's). In that moment, the two prominent defender powers were experiencing internal chaos, and FTMS' existence and its lens was crucial as a stabilizing bridge.

The term "missions" and not "defenses" is used for a reason. While it is on me for not finding a way to better communicate this, this meant 57 updates completed, not 57 individual detags conducted. While this is not some record-breaking number, for the several months FTMS existed, it's not insubstantial. Further, the bulk of the weight in the clause is about the aforementioned political transition.

Tinhampton wrote:It boasts that Jack's work helped guarantee that "accurate information about defender accomplishments will be available for future generations, including its own extensive participation in defending operations [...]." As far as I know, I have not seen or received any public resources where anybody, regardless of affiliation to TGW, can access this "accurate information."

It does not say publicly, so nothing in this clause is a lie. No defender organization, or organization of any alignment that I am aware of, makes public its members' military achievement records, nor should they be expected to. The records are kept internally and generally are made available to outsiders upon request - e.g. how I gained access to portions of Jack's record for the purpose of writing this Commend despite never having been a member of TGW.

Tinhampton wrote:It refers to raiders as "darkspawn." While this fits with TGW's theme, such informal and questionable language should be confined to TGW's own defending updates and reports, not official Security Council resolutions.

Using the term "darkspawn" was obviously a deliberate stylistic choice. While you may disagree with it, I really am unsure how you could truly justify a real reason to vote against based on using this one word.

Further, you seem to be opposed to all creativity in the r/d arena at this point. "Darkspawn" is characteristic of TGW's lore cannon, an essential and distinctive feature of the organization. While one could argue that TGW's execution of its Dragon Age-based lore in update reports is haphazard at times (possibly true), one can't deny its a fundamental aspect of the organization and begrudge a singular reference to it in the resolution, especially given the meaning of the text is still clear as the term "invaders" is used elsewhere.

One could also argue that such an external lore base is unnecessary for a defender organization and, in fact, I somewhat agree with that on a personal level as I've always worked within and served organization that use more traditional nations/regions, invader/defender/native, battle/fortification, etc. style lore. However, in paying tribute to Jack, who has contributed immensely to TGW specifically as an organization, I believe it is fitting and tasteful to pay brief reference to one of the defining features that makes TGW distinctive. In fact, acknowledging and celebrating that other defenders practices and traditions may be different from my own (or even other defenders) while still in line with the goals of the cause is a fundamental part of internal respect within the faction.

Tinhampton wrote:It assigns to Dead I Jack credit for "initiat[ing] and guid[ing] a legislative debate to establish an independent The Rejected Realms Media Corporation with a dedicated Editor-in-Chief." In fact, The Rejected Times' independence from TRR's government predates the Constituting Act. The Act was, in addition, originally proposed by The Grim Reaper (and seconded by Bormiar and Gorundu) - not Dead I Jack.

You seem to have only read the thread where the final bill was drafted and not the discussion thread that preceded it. In fact, the imminent necessity of the Constituting Act of TRRMC was triggered in large part by Jack's decision to not assign a Media Officer during his term, instead assigning a WA Officer. At no point does the proposal say Jack wrote the law, just that he initiated and guided the debate, which is true. It is worth turning your attention to Bormiar's comments earlier in this thread, as well as other secondary sources I consulted with privately, who agreed with the characterization in the resolution of how Jack was one of the driving forces behind the formation of the position of Editor-in-Chief, and in fact some of those people wanted my language to be even loftier. If anything, this language was a compromise to avoid overplaying Jack's accomplishments.

As to your point about TRT's independence, the resolution does not credit Jack with inventing the independence of TRT. Rather, it credits Jack with helping establish TRT's EiC position separately from TRR's core set of officers, guiding the debate over this, publishing TRT in the interim, and an otherwise successful term as Delegate. All of which is certainly true.

Tinhampton wrote:It asserts that "In Deadeye Jack’s most recent term [as Officer of Culture, they maintained] a Culture Calendar with daily cultural events, ensuring continued activity on TRR’s communication platforms." The events so described were not, in fact, daily: Dead I Jack effectively gave up on his Culture Calendar series around the end of September 2020, halfway through his term. A Leaf on the Wind, TRR's delegate at the time, herself admitted that "The amount of preparation was deemed too much for the amount of overall participation."

It's odd to me that you put the only criticism anywhere near validity at the bottom. It is correct that the "daily"ness of the events was discontinued, however it did occur for a significant enough portion of Jack's term to merit the inclusion of the word "daily" in my assessment. No part of the text definitively says "there were events daily for every day of Jack's term". It says in Jack's term there was a Culture Calnendar with daily events, but does not say those events were always daily. Finally, even if events were not daily, the Culture Calendar did accomplish the goal stated in the text, which was "continued activity on TRR’s communication platforms", which is why it is an innovation that has been carried on by subsequent TRR Cultural Officers.

This kind of criticism of the text, like most criticisms you raise, is excellent in the drafting phase but far too late in the voting phase.
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Refuge Isle
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Postby Refuge Isle » Fri May 14, 2021 10:56 am

Tinhampton wrote:[*]It refers to raiders as "darkspawn." While this fits with TGW's theme, such informal and questionable language should be confined to TGW's own defending updates and reports, not official Security Council resolutions.

This line of criticism is extraordinarily odd, it devalues every resolution that's been given to someone on grounds of RP writing, alone. It ignores all of the GA authors who have had their ambassador persona/dramas as a part of their C&C. The purpose of SC writing ought to be the interpretation of mundane internet events as something that can be made into fanciful tales and wild stories. You do not write about players in terms of people pushing buttons, but as what their nations and actors within them are doing. It is an IC format.

If the SC is not a platform for canonising IC lore, I don't know what is.
Last edited by Refuge Isle on Fri May 14, 2021 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Jedinsto
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Postby Jedinsto » Fri May 14, 2021 10:59 am

This is the most based thing I've heard in my life-
HumanSanity wrote:Your criticisms are largely dogwater
Last edited by Jedinsto on Fri May 14, 2021 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Buschtonia
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Postby Buschtonia » Fri May 14, 2021 3:06 pm

I should consider on starting trade relations with Deadeye Jack, given that both our people are freedom loving our countries could be the best of friends....also export more food since Buschtonia have a lot of farms out in it's rural areas

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Postby Praeceps » Fri May 14, 2021 5:22 pm

HumanSanity wrote:No defender organization, or organization of any alignment that I am aware of, makes public its members' military achievement records, nor should they be expected to. The records are kept internally and generally are made available to outsiders upon request - e.g. how I gained access to portions of Jack's record for the purpose of writing this Commend despite never having been a member of TGW.

FYI, the NPA does.
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HumanSanity
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Postby HumanSanity » Fri May 14, 2021 7:55 pm

Praeceps wrote:
HumanSanity wrote:No defender organization, or organization of any alignment that I am aware of, makes public its members' military achievement records, nor should they be expected to. The records are kept internally and generally are made available to outsiders upon request - e.g. how I gained access to portions of Jack's record for the purpose of writing this Commend despite never having been a member of TGW.

FYI, the NPA does.

To my knowledge, the NPA does not keep a public record by member of each mission. They keep a public record of all missions with members listed. As, to my knowledge, does the SPSF. This distinction is why I wrote "members' military achievement records". If NPA does, please point me to it, sounds like a useful resource.
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Praeceps
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Postby Praeceps » Sat May 15, 2021 3:29 pm

HumanSanity wrote:
Praeceps wrote:FYI, the NPA does.

To my knowledge, the NPA does not keep a public record by member of each mission. They keep a public record of all missions with members listed. As, to my knowledge, does the SPSF. This distinction is why I wrote "members' military achievement records". If NPA does, please point me to it, sounds like a useful resource.

There is the roster list here which indicates totals. That being said, if someone is looking for specifics of operations, the mission logs are searchable by name
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Tinhampton
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Postby Tinhampton » Sat May 15, 2021 9:00 pm

Commend Deadeye Jack was passed 11,907 votes to 1,552. (88.47% support)

For: 11,907: McMasterdonia (1,093), Zukchiva (715), Beepee (713), Dilber (537), East Durthang (422), Wischland (342), Primorye Oblast (222), Chimes (209), Valerievna (202), Narvatus (153), You Should See Me in a Crown (135), Duby (131), Lesser Velutaria (121), Ruinenlust (118), Brototh (115), Josephtan (91), The Salaxalans (78), Paleocacher (71), Stephenese Republic (70), Sylh Alanor (65), TESDAI (64), South Boston Irishmen (61), Asdersland (60), Courelli (60), Enlais (55), Avian Collector (44), Dabberwocky (42), Candensia (37), Particle (36), Yodle (35), Grey County (33), Parkplace (33), German Federal Reich (33), Indusse (31), Novum Orientis (31), Roma Sparta (31), Lunar Martian Alliance (31), LollerLand (31), Karteria (30), Alcala-Cordel (28), Occoron (27), Bassiliya (25), Panther (25), Noble Titans (24), West Phoenicia (24), Tostandia (24), NewTexas (24), Rangers of the Grey (23), Suter (22), Orioni 2 (22), Sjevre (22), Hipsters With Airpods (21), Tomisburg (18), Baloo Kingdom (17), Candanadium (17), Ecclestia (17), One Small Island (17), Volkerben (16), Boris Cult (15), Mellyland (15), North Sonovia (13), Valerity (13), Union of the Squids (13), Kingdom Of Deutchland (13), Hashishin (12), Seludong (12), Castelia (12), Martinilinian (12), Princess Luna (12), Halcyon Nova (11), Northern Frost (11), The Stalker (11), The New North Republic (11), J-O-E (11), Cavisco (11), Slavuja (11), East overworld (10), Calamari Lands (10), Zamastan (10), OneOnlyOne (10), Vegaga (9), Sail Nation (9), Greater Zhanland (9), Hulldom (9), Ethwelistan (9), The Hard Part (9), The Voltarum (8), The Soviet state of Svalbard (8), Miklozia (7), Golanchia (7), Lamoni (7), Vaarland (7), Spectral Empire (7), Halexandria (7), Rei I (7), West Selania (6), GoodKingWenceslas (6), New Herdon (6), Koxor (6), Greater Cesnica (6), The Regalian Underland (6), Muzztopia (6), Pitbull (6), Harmony Cafe (6), Omniabstracta (6), FORKTASTICSTAN (5), San Lumen (5), Khavar-Niscea (5), San Teodoro de Haro (5), Shinomiya (5), Goodrum (5), Santa Thereza (5), Aldrest (5), So Pep (5), Dollystana (5), Communo-Slavocia (5), TAF International (5), Cyng (5), Cynetia (5), Denathor (4), Reultan (4), Thialrer (4), Ravko (4), Jacobopolus (4), Kiwi Bird Land (4), Barak Khalad (4), Kalin Oblast (4), Molopovia (4), Ben Kenobi (4), Srotino (4), Horden (4), Thermodolia (4), Chap Ven (4), The Onionist Socialist Randos (4), Masonolixia (4), Alistia (4), Wabacha (4), United States of Arizelon (4), Oppy Gasai (4), Aelythium (4), New Majoria (3), Free New Spris (3), Samogitias (3), Frontier Isles (3), Ur-Noxia (3), Germeria (3), Vanra (3), N E A C (3), Ariosa (3), Kinkerland (3), Kaizo Beikoku (3), Sedgistan (3), Bandst Sipsianthordia (3), Raccquesi (3), The States of France (3), Stevemeve (3), Socruell (3), Nathan pesta (3), Suvmia (3), Stedinia (3), Flor-Fina (3), Kingdom of Derita (3), Eotheood (3), Inner Urkey Gres Lair (3), Pastries (3), Krezenel (3), Greenkeep (3), North Carve (3), United Countries of North America (3), Lacontone (3), Iescech (3), The Neolithic German Empire (3), Beazlend (3), TexJeeps (3), Russtopolis (3), Yjlom (3), Doomsayer 6666 (3), Island Girl Herby (3), Zarnath 2 (2), Yugandastan (2), Gran Serenissima (2), The Federation of Mythology (2), Zombiedolphins (2), Potato-Nation (2), Wolflandil (2), Imperial Felchah (2), Hoshido and Nohr (2), Merulla (2), Australia and Antarctica (2), Readlng (2), New Taters (2), Vanshia (2), United Dependencies (2), Kalonixa (2), Southeast Marajarbia (2), Free Economic Zone Of Rapture (2), Nerdesia (2), Dracolia (2), The Ancient World (2), Central Republic of China (2), RemiBourg (2), Briaven (2), The Greaterlands (2), Glorious Scythia (2), Shnrubton (2), Nopengie (2), Rhode 1sland (2), ButWhyTho (2), Zizzland (2), Some People on Planet Arcadia (2), Bloodhide (2), Ophello (2), Pelagus Borealis (2), Novus Greater Britannia (2), FarmerGroot (2), Mooseland12 (2), Our lord Hot Pocket (2), The Soviet Onions and the Baltics (2), Greater Eireann (2), Hamgria (2), Langenia (2), Saganye (2), Sad Women (2), Creator Land (2), Fsdh E (2), Chudwick (2), Hannsilien (2), Brox Deu (2), Valkovia (2), Sun Burst (2), North Aqusomia (2), Kraytonia (2), Real Gamers (2), Zarnicovia nova (2), Melanocytes (2), For The worlds of the midrim (2), The Akasha Colony (2), Lebrea (2), The Eurasian SFSR (2), Apollor (2), Central Protectorate of Alkoholi (2), The Soviet Union Republics (2), The Fire Born (2), Scakulever (2), The Glorious Nation Texas (2), The Kingdom of Morocco1 (2), Romulus III (2), Kimidayo (2), Conservativealia (2), Democratic Exodian Territories (2), Uhremberg (2), Slices Right (2), Arkti (2), Przeginia (2), United States of Europe- (2), Sufferlandia (2), New Technocratic Prussia (2), United Colony Coalition (2), ErykCarrillo (2), and (4,245) individual member nations.

Against: 1,552: Dyl (195), ShrewLlamaLand (109), Nulkia (53), Mikeswill (49), Demon Havens (20), Greater Cuba (18), Red Green and Black (17), Castle Federation (17), Otaku Stratus (17), Cruciland (12), Tinhampton (12), The Union of Costa Rica (11), Gatchina (10), The Yellow Emperor (9), Brocklandia (8), OF Courscant (8), Dossiny (7), Orennica (6), Chodean Kal (6), Ospeia (6), Crawlaysia (6), Sith Isles (6), Matonis (6), Madrocea (5), Wadelhelpia (5), ColdHeartedBastards (5), New Delfos (5), Republic of Dixie (4), Sietsk (4), Winfallow (4), Deskoslovakia (4), Pidgekhistan (3), Kleinekatzen (3), Littjara (3), Friimark (3), Rykkland (3), Ayylmao69420 (3), Felistia (3), Unbridled Mediocrity (3), Fred Knijampongedona (2), North Altair (2), Ashaie (2), Wirebrush (2), Islands Of Ventro (2), Adeiatic (2), Tirnot (2), Boarder Princes (2), Tarlag (2), Republic of Blank (2), Rivgalia (2), Lyon-County Emporia (2), MotherNation (2), Polish Commune (2), 11 Templar Knights (2), Chundukeratopia (2), Kocksangonta (2), Italian Community (2), Poliktatia (2), and (846) individual member nations.
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Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549, SC#356
Other achievements: Cup of Harmony 73 champions; -45 Darkspawn Kill Points; Philosopher-Queen of Sophia; "Tinhampton? the man's literally god"
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Deadeye Jack
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Postby Deadeye Jack » Sun May 16, 2021 6:28 am

Thank you HS, Frenchy, and Inquista for putting in the work writing this. Thank you to everyone who voted in support of the resolution. And thank you especially to all my friends and region mates who have hung out with me, humored my ideas, taught me things about the game and so much more. There are too many of you to name but you know who you are and you are the ones who have made NationStates special for me and keep me playing all these years.

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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Sun May 16, 2021 6:34 am

Congratulations on the Commendation - well deserved. Shout out to HS also for putting together an excellent proposal.
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Lenlyvit
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Postby Lenlyvit » Sun May 16, 2021 8:59 am

Congratulations!
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Nova Vandalia
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Postby Nova Vandalia » Mon May 17, 2021 6:19 am

Well done on to HS on writing a good commend and of course congratulations to Jack, definitely a deserving candidate.
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