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[PASSED] Liberate Benevolent Capitalism

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Kannap
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

[PASSED] Liberate Benevolent Capitalism

Postby Kannap » Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:22 am

The Security Council,

RECOGNIZES that Benevolent Capitalism has recently been invaded by Pwnzoria,

APPALLED that the members of Pwnzoria came in and quickly took power, password locking the region,

NOTING that on the twenty-second of June, 2012, that many of the members of Benevolent Capitalism were ejected by the raiders,

ACKNOWLEDGING that the natives of Benevolent Capitalism have been held out from their region by a password set by the invaders,

REALISING that if action is not taken to remove the region's password, then it will slowly die,

HOPING that by liberating Benevolent Capitalism, all of its natives will return to their homes, and may the region prosper once more,

HEREBY liberates Benevolent Capitalism
Last edited by Sedgistan on Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:07 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Drop Your Pants
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Drop Your Pants » Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:47 am

Are there any natives that support this proposal?
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Skyrim Diplomacy
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Founded: Jun 25, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Skyrim Diplomacy » Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:08 am

Generally you post here before submitting... :palm:

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Port Hellen
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Founded: Oct 26, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Port Hellen » Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:11 am

I am a native of BenCap and I was ejected and banned when the raid took place. Our Chief Justice was one of the raiders. He was their agent.

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Nova Mykenae
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Ex-Nation

Postby Nova Mykenae » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:25 pm

Port Hellen wrote:I am a native of BenCap and I was ejected and banned when the raid took place. Our Chief Justice was one of the raiders. He was their agent.


I just have a few questions before I decide to support this

1) How many active members did your region have?

2) Was your forum active?

3) Are you in contact with at least half a dozen other natives that want to return, and will return to the region if we support this?
Last edited by Nova Mykenae on Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Topid
Minister
 
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Founded: Dec 29, 2008
Capitalizt

Postby Topid » Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:22 pm

Looks like BenCap was founded in early September or late August of 2011, the peak population appears to be 18 in April. A couple of the natives appear to have relocated to Foxtopia, though I have made no effort to contact them to see their opinion on the matter. Further, it appears Port Hellen has indeed resided in BenCap since November of last year. This nation has never been in the WA. As per the usual, thank you so much Texas for maintaining these tools so we have access to this information!

Personally, given Port Hellen's statement, I would probably vote for this if it went to vote, small regions deserve help too. Especially since it is very rare for large region or regions with more than one or two active members to ever be raided. Though the proposal would have much better chances if it had the support of a nation that has a visible WA or one or two more natives came forward.
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Hoteldematagigantes
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Founded: Mar 31, 2012
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Postby Hoteldematagigantes » Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:57 am

Port Hellen wrote:I am a native of BenCap and I was ejected and banned when the raid took place. Our Chief Justice was one of the raiders. He was their agent.


I would like to dispute this statement. As the former Chief of Justice I wish to dispute Port Hellen's claim to be a native of of Benevolent Capitalism. Port Hellen was already on the banned list when I was granted my position and as proof of this, I have a telegram (which I can quote on request) from the former WA Delegate Macosky questioning whether I would like to let him back in to the region (This can be confirmed by asking Macosky for my corresponding reply to that telegram, but I'm not certain that Macoscky will be willing to disclose that information for somewhat obvious reasons).

It is for this reason that I disagree with Port Hellen's claim

Edit: That said, I'm not denying that I'm a raider, I'm definitely that ( although I would dispute the use of the noun "agent" but that's trivial)
Last edited by Hoteldematagigantes on Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Newtered States
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Ex-Nation

Postby Newtered States » Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:25 am

Topid wrote:Looks like BenCap was founded in early September or late August of 2011, the peak population appears to be 18 in April. A couple of the natives appear to have relocated to Foxtopia, though I have made no effort to contact them to see their opinion on the matter. Further, it appears Port Hellen has indeed resided in BenCap since November of last year. This nation has never been in the WA. As per the usual, thank you so much Texas for maintaining these tools so we have access to this information!

Personally, given Port Hellen's statement, I would probably vote for this if it went to vote, small regions deserve help too. Especially since it is very rare for large region or regions with more than one or two active members to ever be raided.


I'm not a native of this region, but myself and the author of the proposal really urge you all to help these people out. Thanks :D
Newt Gingrich '016

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Fischistan
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Postby Fischistan » Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:47 pm

If you want to submit it again, I could do the campaigning for you.
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Drop Your Pants
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Postby Drop Your Pants » Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:13 pm

Hoteldematagigantes wrote:Port Hellen was already on the banned list when I was granted my position and as proof of this, I have a telegram (which I can quote on request) from the former WA Delegate Macosky questioning whether I would like to let him back in to the region (This can be confirmed by asking Macosky for my corresponding reply to that telegram, but I'm not certain that Macoscky will be willing to disclose that information for somewhat obvious reasons).

Screenshot would be better. And i'm requesting :P
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Hoteldematagigantes
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Postby Hoteldematagigantes » Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:06 pm

Umm, well this is embarrassing. I don't know how to upload pics, so I kinda need help with that. Sadly (for me) the evidence I provide is somewhat inconclusive as Port Hellen's name is not mentioned, so I rely on your trust that you believe my statement and the hope that [nation]Macosky[/region] (or anyone else) will testify to support this statement. In addition I should be able to provide a list of BenCap residents we DID remove.

any way, here's the quote in word form and I'll post the Pic when I figure out how.

"The Foxtopia WA Delegate of Macosky (Saved. 7 days ago)
What is your position on the regional ban list?? You are the one who decides now. The person who is banned is a foreign spy that lived here for a long time. Do you want to allow him back?"

Edit: Although atm, deciding if Port Hellen is a native or not won't really prevent the liberation going through
Last edited by Hoteldematagigantes on Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Drop Your Pants
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Postby Drop Your Pants » Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:36 pm

Its not that i don't trust you....not wait your a raider in the region, i don't trust you :P screenshot it (print screen on a pc/Command-Shift-3 on mac), upload it to photobucket then post the link to the image here.

Lets have the list of nations you have ejected then :)
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Topid
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Founded: Dec 29, 2008
Capitalizt

Postby Topid » Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:58 am

Hoteldematagigantes wrote:Umm, well this is embarrassing. I don't know how to upload pics, so I kinda need help with that. Sadly (for me) the evidence I provide is somewhat inconclusive as Port Hellen's name is not mentioned, so I rely on your trust that you believe my statement and the hope that [nation]Macosky[/region] (or anyone else) will testify to support this statement. In addition I should be able to provide a list of BenCap residents we DID remove.

any way, here's the quote in word form and I'll post the Pic when I figure out how.

"The Foxtopia WA Delegate of Macosky (Saved. 7 days ago)
What is your position on the regional ban list?? You are the one who decides now. The person who is banned is a foreign spy that lived here for a long time. Do you want to allow him back?"

Edit: Although atm, deciding if Port Hellen is a native or not won't really prevent the liberation going through
As my link above shows, Port Hellen existed in BenCap from November of 2011 until May 15thish of this year, when Port Hellen left the region he went to The Rejected Realms. So I don't have too much trouble believing you, given that your nation arrived about a month ago. That doesn't really change the fact that you have spent a month there and he seven. So unless there really is evidence that he was a raider spy, I don't see how I can doubt his nativeship. First of all, had he been a raider spy as I believe you are saying he was banned for would not raider unity require him to oppose this Liberation? Secondly, that delegate obviously had not so good judgements of who was a raider spy, given you (raider spy) was in charge of whether or not to let the other alleged raider spy back in.

Seems to me Port Hellen was banned, but I have no reason to believe it valid.
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Hoteldematagigantes
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Postby Hoteldematagigantes » Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:16 am

In review of the evidence, I to cannot deny that Port Hellen was in fact a native of Benevolent Capitalism but I still maintain that Port Hellen was not ejected by Pwnzoria. Here is the list of known ejected citizens:
-Macosky
-Nautican
-I made this nation on rock and roll
-LWU

This list can be confirmed by BenCap's history in the link posted by Topid, which shows that we only ejected four nations when coming to power. In addition, from that history, it also shows that Port Hellen had been outside of the region for almost a month before the invasion was launched. Anyway, here's an interesting pic I took of the BenCap RMB:
http://s1064.photobucket.com/albums/u363/Vwooooshenator/?action=view&current=Screenshot2012-06-26at75016PM.png

Here is the requested screen shot. As I said, it is somewhat inconclusive in supporting my claim, but I hope it shows the legitimacy in my claim (that Pwnzoria did not eject Port Hellen). I cannot actually verify the validity in Macosky's claim because this was the first time Port Hellen had been brought to my attention. I suspect you would have to contact Macosky for the answer to that.

http://s1064.photobucket.com/albums/u363/Vwooooshenator/?action=view&current=Screenshot2012-06-26at75016PM.png#!oZZ1QQcurrentZZhttp%3A%2F%2Fs1064.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu363%2FVwooooshenator%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3DScreenshot2012-06-26at105930AM.png

Topid wrote: First of all, had he been a raider spy as I believe you are saying he was banned for would not raider unity require him to oppose this Liberation? Secondly, that delegate obviously had not so good judgements of who was a raider spy, given you (raider spy) was in charge of whether or not to let the other alleged raider spy back in.

Seems to me Port Hellen was banned, but I have no reason to believe it valid.


I would also like to point out an error in your reasoning. There is often competition between raiders and we, Pwnzoria were unwilling to share our prize. Even if Port Hellen had offered to collaborate (if he was a raider), we would have declined. In addition if Port Hellen was a raider, then they would have every reason to support this liberation as the region is currently inaccessible. If the region was only insecure, it would at least give a rival raider the chance of invading.

Any way, I hope this helps achieve something productive

(P.s Please don't call me a "spy" that implies lying. I maintain a system where I will not lie, nor deny being a raider if asked, but that does not mean I will necessarily declare it upon arrival. Just use the term "raider", thanks)

Edit: There were some formatting issues but I think they're fixed
Last edited by Hoteldematagigantes on Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Ardchoille
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Postby Ardchoille » Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:46 am

Gentlebeings, your interest in an individual nation has drawn you away from the actual topic. The major problems a proposal faces are: is the Liberation proposal justified, and is it legal (ie, does it meet the technical requirements of such a proposal). Try looking at it as a whole.
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Topid
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Postby Topid » Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:37 pm

Ardchoille wrote:Gentlebeings, your interest in an individual nation has drawn you away from the actual topic. The major problems a proposal faces are: is the Liberation proposal justified, and is it legal (ie, does it meet the technical requirements of such a proposal). Try looking at it as a whole.

Are you saying legalities and justifications are all we're allowed to discuss now?
AKA Weed

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Skyrim Diplomacy
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Postby Skyrim Diplomacy » Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:16 pm

I think that was a gentle "discuss the proposal" prod. All the other chatter probably belongs in Gameplay.

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Hoteldematagigantes
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Postby Hoteldematagigantes » Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:26 pm

I agree with Skyrim Diplomacy. Did the resolution achieve quorum? I'm not sure where it would say if it did.

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Skyrim Diplomacy
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Postby Skyrim Diplomacy » Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:57 pm

Hoteldematagigantes wrote:I agree with Skyrim Diplomacy. Did the resolution achieve quorum? I'm not sure where it would say if it did.

It failed to reach quorum, as expected.

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Topid
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Capitalizt

Postby Topid » Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:11 pm

Skyrim Diplomacy wrote:I think that was a gentle "discuss the proposal" prod. All the other chatter probably belongs in Gameplay.

That's a bit dull and silly. I can't think of a single liberation proposal where the regional communities strength and activity, and the views and integrity of said members was not a central issue if not the only issue at play in the debate.

I suggest a quick resubmit. Id also be willing to assist in a campaign to help the proposal reach quorum.
Last edited by Topid on Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Hoteldematagigantes
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Postby Hoteldematagigantes » Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:51 pm

Topid wrote:I suggest a quick resubmit. Id also be willing to assist in a campaign to help the proposal reach quorum.


I concur, we, Pwnzoria, have our reputation to consider. What is a raiding nation without infamy?

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Topid
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Postby Topid » Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:09 pm

Hoteldematagigantes wrote:What is a raiding nation without infamy?

Pwnzoria? Never heard of your region or anything you've done before quite honestly.

Seriously though, it looks like there is a couple nations left with fairly high influence but I think the faster we get this resubmitted the more sure we can be that the raiders lose in the end.
Last edited by Topid on Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Hoteldematagigantes
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Postby Hoteldematagigantes » Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:38 pm

Topid wrote:Pwnzoria? Never heard of your region or anything you've done before quite honestly.


My point exactly,we need to build Pwnzoria's reputation. Also if someone here could follow our progress please? We intend to build enough support for a condemnation. (Including evidence of our suitably nefarious actions, although this does not necessitate that these actions will be dishonest, just evil)

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Sedgistan
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Postby Sedgistan » Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:55 pm

Topid wrote:
Ardchoille wrote:Gentlebeings, your interest in an individual nation has drawn you away from the actual topic. The major problems a proposal faces are: is the Liberation proposal justified, and is it legal (ie, does it meet the technical requirements of such a proposal). Try looking at it as a whole.

Are you saying legalities and justifications are all we're allowed to discuss now?

Nope, definitely not.

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Hoteldematagigantes
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Postby Hoteldematagigantes » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:03 am

Ok, now that discussion should go on Gameplay. I think discussing specific players is fine in this case because it relates to the legitimacy of the resolution (I think we established that it's a legitimate liberation)

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