If perpetual war existed, how advanced would humanity be?

[New Axiom]

Okay, so let's pretend the whole world is nationstates. Always at war with each other, always. Never a day of peace. Now, let's pretend that this doesn't have any effect on economy and stuff. If this scenario was real, how advanced would humans be?

I mean, space travel was first done with the V-2, a Nazi cruise missile.

The Internet was made as a military communication tool, as were radios.

The Nazis pioneered many medical technologies, including the catheter, during horrendous war related experiments.

The Nazis also developed the first jet fighter, designed for combat. Now we use jets in civilian ways too.

So, if we were ways at war, would we gen more advanced or no?

I think we would be, becuase we would be under more pressure to develop better tech faster.

Thoughts, NSG?

[Nagarael]

I think there's a point of diminishing returns.

Yes, war does tend to accelerate advancements, but were it perpetual there would soon be no one left to do the research.

Now constant looming threat of war. That may be a different story.

[Gauthier]

Warhammer 40000 is not real life.

[Galloism]

Doesn't perpetual war already exist when taking earth as a whole into account?

Pretty sure there's been constant war somewhere on earth since WW2.

[Napkiraly]

The catheter was not invented by Nazi Germany. Benjamin Franklin had a catheter design that was used iirc.

[Elwher]

What do you mean, if? When has there been a decade in the history of man when a war was not going on somewhere?

[Victoria and Vacuna]

Warhammer 40000 is not real life.

Warhammer 40K has decaying tech due to milennia of war anyway.

[The Romulan Republic]

War might have driven technological advancement, but their need to be breaks in the warfare to allow economies and industries to recover, I'd think.

In any case, at this point, perpetual war would probably go nuclear sooner or later, which would potentially set us back decades or centuries, if not ultimately lead to our extinction.

Finally, I would say that we'd be better off just investing the money directly in research, rather than indirectly via killing massive numbers of people.

[Napkiraly]

Doesn't perpetual war already exist when taking earth as a whole into account?

Pretty sure there's been constant war somewhere on earth since WW2.

There's been constant warfare for most of, if not all, of human history as far as we know. Tribal societies are notoriously violent.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

In the Grimdarkness of Nationstates, there is only war.

[Gauthier]

Doesn't perpetual war already exist when taking earth as a whole into account?

Pretty sure there's been constant war somewhere on earth since WW2.

There's been constant warfare for most of, if not all, of human history as far as we know. Tribal societies are notoriously violent.

Tribal societies never have WMDs either.

[Victoria and Vacuna]

Now, let's pretend that this doesn't have any effect on economy and stuff

You need time to accumulate gold to spend, and if there's perpetual war you're constantly shitting out money anyway. The world is subject to stronger entropy and loss of wealth than NS II is. Besides, we saw this shit in 1984. Perpetual war is kept up to oppress the people, but that's besides the point: the war has made them poor and the only ones benefitting are the generals and their subordinates. And possibly the generals' overseers.

[Victoria and Vacuna]

Doesn't perpetual war already exist when taking earth as a whole into account?

Pretty sure there's been constant war somewhere on earth since WW2.

There's been constant warfare for most of, if not all, of human history as far as we know. Tribal societies are notoriously violent.

Surely, in all of human history, there is a point in time where at least one of these tribes took off the time from killing their neighbors to invest in their advances in spear technology?

[Khadgar]

Let's pretend a state of total war exists with no peace ever, and it has no effect on the economy.

Couldn't I just imagine that... I'm trying to think of something more impossible. Maybe all oxygen was antimatter? Be less absurd.

[Victoria and Vacuna]

Let's pretend a state of total war exists with no peace ever, and it has no effect on the economy.

Couldn't I just imagine that... I'm trying to think of something more impossible. Maybe all oxygen was antimatter? Be less absurd.

Every time you breathe you die of gamma radiation. And you are made of constantly annihilating fermions. No fun!

[Napkiraly]

There's been constant warfare for most of, if not all, of human history as far as we know. Tribal societies are notoriously violent.

Surely, in all of human history, there is a point in time where at least one of these tribes took off the time from killing their neighbors to invest in their advances in spear technology?

Yeah but then two other tribes over the mountain were still bashing each other's heads in with rocks. Until the tribe that made spears came along. Then they killed everyone. Then they meet another tribe that has spears and arrows. And on the bloody path we go.

[Khadgar]

Surely, in all of human history, there is a point in time where at least one of these tribes took off the time from killing their neighbors to invest in their advances in spear technology?

Yeah but then two other tribes over the mountain were still bashing each other's heads in with rocks. Until the tribe that made spears came along. Then they killed everyone. Then they meet another tribe that has spears and arrows. And on the bloody path we go.

A state of constant war where there's never any peace sounds like a recipe for barbarism. You don't have many inventors if you need every able body to prevent being slaughtered.

[Victoria and Vacuna]

Surely, in all of human history, there is a point in time where at least one of these tribes took off the time from killing their neighbors to invest in their advances in spear technology?

Yeah but then two other tribes over the mountain were still bashing each other's heads in with rocks. Until the tribe that made spears came along. Then they killed everyone. Then they meet another tribe that has spears and arrows. And on the bloody path we go.

Sounds like a game of Civ5 on a crowded continent with always-war enabled. Only time you have peace is when you kill all the enemies in sight.
Anyways, yeah. Peace has not been a state that was universally common for humanity. But it's been sufficient for the improvements and efficiencies developed and in use today to exist

[Napkiraly]

Now, let's pretend that this doesn't have any effect on economy and stuff

You need time to accumulate gold to spend, and if there's perpetual war you're constantly shitting out money anyway. The world is subject to stronger entropy and loss of wealth than NS II is. Besides, we saw this shit in 1984. Perpetual war is kept up to oppress the people, but that's besides the point: the war has made them poor and the only ones benefitting are the generals and their subordinates. And possibly the generals' overseers.

Even the Inner Party members had it worse compared to the pre-war period. The world of 1984 is depressing and shite for all, with just varying levels of shite that you are wallowing in.

[Frank Zipper]

Soldiers are economically unproductive, they are just a drain on the economy. If the whole world was constantly at war, the money funding the innovation would run out very quickly.

[Gauthier]

Yeah but then two other tribes over the mountain were still bashing each other's heads in with rocks. Until the tribe that made spears came along. Then they killed everyone. Then they meet another tribe that has spears and arrows. And on the bloody path we go.

A state of constant war where there's never any peace sounds like a recipe for barbarism. You don't have many inventors if you need every able body to prevent being slaughtered.

It would be like a game of Age of Empires where all sides are throwing militias at each other instead of trying to research better technology and units.

[Victoria and Vacuna]

Yeah but then two other tribes over the mountain were still bashing each other's heads in with rocks. Until the tribe that made spears came along. Then they killed everyone. Then they meet another tribe that has spears and arrows. And on the bloody path we go.

A state of constant war where there's never any peace sounds like a recipe for barbarism. You don't have many inventors if you need every able body to prevent being slaughtered.

Well, they are all barbarians until they invent agriculture

You need time to accumulate gold to spend, and if there's perpetual war you're constantly shitting out money anyway. The world is subject to stronger entropy and loss of wealth than NS II is. Besides, we saw this shit in 1984. Perpetual war is kept up to oppress the people, but that's besides the point: the war has made them poor and the only ones benefitting are the generals and their subordinates. And possibly the generals' overseers.

Even the Inner Party members had it worse compared to the pre-war period. The world of 1984 is depressing and shite for all, with just varying levels of shite that you are wallowing in.

I knew that book was too depressing for a reason. And not just because I read it.

[Victoria and Vacuna]

A state of constant war where there's never any peace sounds like a recipe for barbarism. You don't have many inventors if you need every able body to prevent being slaughtered.

It would be like a game of Age of Empires where all sides are throwing militias at each other instead of trying to research better technology and units.

In a world of perpetual war, the one who achieves peace for five seconds is king.

[Napkiraly]

Yeah but then two other tribes over the mountain were still bashing each other's heads in with rocks. Until the tribe that made spears came along. Then they killed everyone. Then they meet another tribe that has spears and arrows. And on the bloody path we go.

A state of constant war where there's never any peace sounds like a recipe for barbarism. You don't have many inventors if you need every able body to prevent being slaughtered.

I don't see how this pertains to my post.

[Nayba Collective]

In the Grimdarkness of Nationstates, there is only war.

Oh dear. Poor II. Hobbes was right.

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> Now, let's pretend that this doesn't have any effect on economy and stuff.

OP, that kind of misses the whole point, doesn't it? War does drive some investment out of necessity, but it also destroys massive amounts of expensive infrastructure, and all those metals and so on don't grow on trees.

Think of it as the State's adrenaline response due to a mortal threat. Your body manages that by burning off reserves and turning off safeties. Keep at it too long, and all you get is a burnt out shell of a body and a crippling anxiety disorder.