A simple argument for democracy.

[Petrolheadia]

Welcome.

Here I present you a good argument for why democracy is the best political system.

It's the story of 3 Asian countries: Japan, South Korea and North Korea.

After the WWII and Korean War, both Koreas were less devastated, while Japan had the worst economic conditions. Today, however, Japan is the richest of them, followed by South Korea, with North Korea a loooong way behind.

What happened?

Well, the countries went their own ways.
Japan was democratic all that time.
South Korea was authoritarian from the 60s to the 80s, with democracy before and after.
North Korea went socialist.

And seeing that the democratic Japan is the richest of them and has human rights comparable with S. Korea, while the socialist North Korea is one of the poorest and the most unfree country in the world... seems like we have a proof what political system is the best.

What do you think? Do you agree with my argument?

[Galloism]

Ok, it makes me twitch when people cast "socialism" as opposed to "democracy".

Please fix that.

[The New Sea Territory]

Welcome.

Here I present you a good argument for why democracy is the best political system.

It's the story of 3 Asian countries: Japan, South Korea and North Korea.

After the WWII and Korean War, both Koreas were less devastated, while Japan had the worst economic conditions. Today, however, Japan is the richest of them, followed by South Korea, with North Korea a loooong way behind.

What happened?

Well, the countries went their own ways.
Japan was democratic all that time.
South Korea was authoritarian from the 60s to the 80s, with democracy before and after.
North Korea went socialist.

And seeing that the democratic Japan is the richest of them and has human rights comparable with S. Korea, while the socialist North Korea is one of the poorest and the most unfree country in the world... seems like we have a proof what political system is the best.

What do you think? Do you agree with my argument?

If fails when you realize North Korea isn't and never was socialist. Say what you want about people rejecting the Soviet Union or China as not being socialist, but North Korea is a state that is almost universally condemned by socialists around the world. Juche is basically North Korean ultranationalism, with some leftist symbolism sprinkled in.

On the other hand, Japan being the "richest" has little to do with its democratic policies (if this were true, Saudi Arabia would be poor)...and they weren't "democratic the whole time". They were an empire that was literally smashed to pieces by the United States, then completely rebuilt with massive amounts of American aid. Perhaps that has more influence on their economic success.

Also, what is "Democracy"? I'd say democracy is a pretty decent political system, but not representative democracy, which is what you are referring to here. Your argument lacks nuance in its terminology. North Korea isn't "socialist", and Japan isn't "democracy", because both of these terms are not defined and have many internal tendencies that are in contradiction with one another (Marxism vs anarchism, direct vs. representative democracy).

[Pandeeria]

You are right. Democracy is definitely better than capitalism, especially that of State capitalism.

[Southerly Gentleman]

A simple rebuttal for your argument:

Why didn't Iraq's economy skyrocket when it was democratized?

[The Hoosier Alliance]

A simple rebuttal for your argument:

Why didn't Iraq's economy skyrocket when it was democratized?

Because it was (well...is) very corrupt. This guy is comparing a government ideology to an economic system and needs to fix that.

[Neanderthaland]

That certainly is simple.

[Imperializt Russia]

North Korea is not socialist, and socialism and democracy are not mutually exclusive. At all. To the point that there is "social democracy" and "democratic socialism" as democratic, socialist, political systems.

Socialism is mostly an economic system, and therefore lives in isolation of what the social and political landscape is. Again, hence democratic socialism being a thing that exists.

Japan's economy absolutely tanked in the 1990s (80s?) IIRC, and is substantially larger than either Korea.
It wasn't until the late 1970s that South Korea pulled ahead of the North. There was once a time when North Korea was the wealthier of the two.

[Southerly Gentleman]

A simple rebuttal for your argument:

Why didn't Iraq's economy skyrocket when it was democratized?

Because it was (well...is) very corrupt. This guy is comparing a government ideology to an economic system and needs to fix that.

Precisely. He's incorrectly equating democracy with a healthy economy.

[Geilinor]

A simple rebuttal for your argument:

Why didn't Iraq's economy skyrocket when it was democratized?

Because Iraq was still experiencing conflict and had been ruled by a dictator for the past three and a half decades.

[Imperializt Russia]

A simple rebuttal for your argument:

Why didn't Iraq's economy skyrocket when it was democratized?

Because Iraq was still experiencing conflict and had been ruled by a dictator for the past three and a half decades.

Therefore...

[Barunia]

Your argument compares apples and oranges.

Democracy, dictatorship, a juche, a soviet ("people's council"), etc. - these are all systems lf government. They are the political systems that determine how your government actually functions.

Socialism, Capitalism, National Socialism, Fascism, etc - are political ideologies. They are the political values that your government holds.

Nations have one of each. For example, the USA has (arguably) the democratic government system, and the capitalism ideology. Norway has a democratic government system and the socialist ideology.


You also equate national success with wealth. Whose to say it wouldn't be better if we all followed Bhutan's example and measured our wealth in the happiness of the people.

[Socialist Nordia]

Your argument compares apples and oranges.

Democracy, dictatorship, a juche, a soviet ("people's council"), etc. - these are all systems lf government. They are the political systems that determine how your government actually functions.

Socialism, Capitalism, National Socialism, Fascism, etc - are political ideologies. They are the political values that your government holds.

Nations have one of each. For example, the USA has (arguably) the democratic government system, and the capitalism ideology. Norway has a democratic government system and the socialist ideology.


You also equate national success with wealth. Whose to say it wouldn't be better if we all followed Bhutan's example and measured our wealth in the happiness of the people.

And Which of those two has higher GDP per capita and happiness?

[The Great Devourer of All]

Democracy works far better than socialism, in much the same way my local school's administrative staff hierarchy works far better than the clasp on my wallet.

Socialism is an economic system, and democracy is a political one. Please edit your post to accommodate for this fact.

[Pandeeria]

Democracy works far better than socialism, in much the same way my local school's administrative staff hierarchy works far better than the clasp on my wallet.

Socialism is an economic system, and democracy is a political one. Please edit your post to accommodate for this fact.

Socialism is workplace democracy.

[The Great Devourer of All]

Democracy works far better than socialism, in much the same way my local school's administrative staff hierarchy works far better than the clasp on my wallet.

Socialism is an economic system, and democracy is a political one. Please edit your post to accommodate for this fact.

Socialism is workplace democracy.

The OP implied that the two are mutually exclusive because they are both political ideologies with opposing views. Neither is true.