by Midewin » Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:19 pm
by Socialist Nordia » Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:39 pm
by Euanos » Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:43 pm
by Yumyumsuppertime » Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:47 pm
Euanos wrote:I believe in moral objectivity and that it has to be found. Without objectivity, no one has a right to claim that the Nazi's were truly wrong for the genocide of Jews, Gypsies, Handicaps and Homosexuals. I think its too easy a route to go to say that all morality is subjective and that no one is held accountable for anything.
by Jumalariik » Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:50 pm
Yumyumsuppertime wrote:Euanos wrote:I believe in moral objectivity and that it has to be found. Without objectivity, no one has a right to claim that the Nazi's were truly wrong for the genocide of Jews, Gypsies, Handicaps and Homosexuals. I think its too easy a route to go to say that all morality is subjective and that no one is held accountable for anything.
Nonsense. They were wrong from a subjective standpoint, albeit one shared by most in the Western world.
by Neutraligon » Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:52 pm
Jumalariik wrote:Yumyumsuppertime wrote:
Nonsense. They were wrong from a subjective standpoint, albeit one shared by most in the Western world.
That doesn't make it wrong.
I do believe in objective morality, being Christian. I think that just as God created numbers, universal laws, universal concepts, animals, people, He also create moral truths.
by Jumalariik » Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:53 pm
Neutraligon wrote:Jumalariik wrote:That doesn't make it wrong.
I do believe in objective morality, being Christian. I think that just as God created numbers, universal laws, universal concepts, animals, people, He also create moral truths.
Since they are moral truths as far as gods opinion is concerned they would still be subjective to the mind of god.
by The Great Devourer of All » Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:54 pm
Yymea wrote:We would definitely be scared of what is probably the most scary nation on NS :p
Multiversal Venn-Copard wrote:Actually fairly threatening by our standards. And this time we really mean "threatening". As in, "we'll actually need to escalate significantly to match their fleets."
Valkalan wrote:10/10 Profoundly evil. Some nations conqueror others for wealth and prestige, but the Devourer consumes civilization like a cancer consuming an unfortunate host.
The Speaker wrote:Intemperate in the sea from the roof, and leg All night, and he knows lots of reads from the unseen good old man of the mountain-DESTRUCTION
by Neutraligon » Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:54 pm
by Jumalariik » Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:54 pm
by Neutraligon » Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:55 pm
by Jumalariik » Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:56 pm
by Neutraligon » Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:57 pm
by New confederate ramenia » Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:58 pm
by Yumyumsuppertime » Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:02 pm
Jumalariik wrote:Yumyumsuppertime wrote:
Nonsense. They were wrong from a subjective standpoint, albeit one shared by most in the Western world.
That doesn't make it wrong.
I do believe in objective morality, being Christian. I think that just as God created numbers, universal laws, universal concepts, animals, people, He also create moral truths.
by Jumalariik » Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:03 pm
by Neutraligon » Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:06 pm
Jumalariik wrote:Neutraligon wrote:Since morals are opinions they cannot have proof.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sermon_on_the_Mount
If we can assert that universal laws have an existence and the ability to cause, and believe, as I do that God created them, it would follow that there is also the possibility for moral laws with such truth. I'd say that just as God made 1+1=2 to be readily knowable to be true, the evil that is murder has the same.
by Yumyumsuppertime » Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:07 pm
Jumalariik wrote:Neutraligon wrote:Since morals are opinions they cannot have proof.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sermon_on_the_Mount
If we can assert that universal laws have an existence and the ability to cause, and believe, as I do that God created them, it would follow that there is also the possibility for moral laws with such truth. I'd say that just as God made 1+1=2 to be readily knowable to be true, the evil that is murder has the same.
by The New Sea Territory » Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:13 pm
| Ⓐ ☭ | Anarchist Communist | Heideggerian Marxist | Vegetarian | Bisexual | Stirnerite | Slavic/Germanic Pagan | ᚨ ᛟ |
Solntsa Roshcha --- Postmodern Poyltheist
"Christianity had brutally planted the poisoned blade in the healthy, quivering flesh of all humanity; it had goaded a cold wave
of darkness with mystically brutal fury to dim the serene and festive exultation of the dionysian spirit of our pagan ancestors."
-Renzo Novatore, Verso il Nulla Creatore
by Jumalariik » Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:39 pm
Neutraligon wrote:Jumalariik wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sermon_on_the_Mount
If we can assert that universal laws have an existence and the ability to cause, and believe, as I do that God created them, it would follow that there is also the possibility for moral laws with such truth. I'd say that just as God made 1+1=2 to be readily knowable to be true, the evil that is murder has the same.
I disagree with your claim of a god existing. I fail to see why universal laws have an existence. These claims that you have made right there are subjective.
Yumyumsuppertime wrote:Jumalariik wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sermon_on_the_Mount
If we can assert that universal laws have an existence and the ability to cause, and believe, as I do that God created them, it would follow that there is also the possibility for moral laws with such truth. I'd say that just as God made 1+1=2 to be readily knowable to be true, the evil that is murder has the same.
Physical laws have an existence. You have not proven the objective existence of a moral law. An existence of God must be taken on faith, as there is no verifiable way to test the assertion of the existence of God (and I say that as a believer). The fact that people have written down moral codes does not mean that they can be said to exist in the same way as physical laws any more than writing a story about a unicorn proves their physical existence.
by Yumyumsuppertime » Sun Aug 28, 2016 8:31 pm
Jumalariik wrote:Neutraligon wrote:I disagree with your claim of a god existing. I fail to see why universal laws have an existence. These claims that you have made right there are subjective.
They are debatable, but are either objectively true or false.Yumyumsuppertime wrote:
Physical laws have an existence. You have not proven the objective existence of a moral law. An existence of God must be taken on faith, as there is no verifiable way to test the assertion of the existence of God (and I say that as a believer). The fact that people have written down moral codes does not mean that they can be said to exist in the same way as physical laws any more than writing a story about a unicorn proves their physical existence.
Well if we take on faith that they were written by God, this makes sense.
by Lady Scylla » Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:06 pm
Jumalariik wrote:Neutraligon wrote:I disagree with your claim of a god existing. I fail to see why universal laws have an existence. These claims that you have made right there are subjective.
They are debatable, but are either objectively true or false.Yumyumsuppertime wrote:
Physical laws have an existence. You have not proven the objective existence of a moral law. An existence of God must be taken on faith, as there is no verifiable way to test the assertion of the existence of God (and I say that as a believer). The fact that people have written down moral codes does not mean that they can be said to exist in the same way as physical laws any more than writing a story about a unicorn proves their physical existence.
Well if we take on faith that they were written by God, this makes sense.
by Lady Scylla » Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:13 pm
by 36 Camera Perspective » Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:43 pm
by New Werpland » Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:51 pm
36 Camera Perspective wrote:Objective moral truths are whatever perfectly rational beings would agree upon in a social contract.
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