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Punch debates R1 - Equality or not? (IC/MT/Apply to enter)

Where nations come together and discuss matters of varying degrees of importance. [In character]
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Asigna
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Punch debates R1 - Equality or not? (IC/MT/Apply to enter)

Postby Asigna » Sat Jul 30, 2016 3:50 am

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PRESENTS
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Do you have what it takes to fight the battle of the wits?

OOC

Skip to the actual debate


Manila, Kapitalia district, Asigna Philippines

Manila was still undergoing massive reconstruction in order to make it look like a majestic city which was envisioned by Burnham and Palafox alike. At the Punungan palace, which was also still under construction when viewed from the outside, the debates were taking place. The event was being moderated by the Punch corporation itself but the bayan government under Timente's command insisted that they still hold enormous influence over coordinating the show with Timente himself hosting the event simply because he was willing to turn this little debate club into a massive anti communist advertisement. He was very delighted to have received invitations from a Hatayan professor, a politician from Tianxi, one of the communist countries the UCI went to war with over Vulkata. He sought to use the attendance of a communist and a democratic socialist as an opportunity for humiliation of communists and to show the world how committed the bayan was in humiliating the reds in every opportunity they could get. Although he couldn't help but sigh knowing that the real targets for this debate, Victorialans, did not bother to attend as he wished to "temporarily" kidnap them and use the hostages as a bait to fish out the society of Liberty and harmony who aggressively tried to eliminate him with the dreaded Hayagriva which he still has nightmares about, nevertheless, the man always found alternate opportunities to replace the one he couldn't get.

In the makeup room, the shaggy haired punong was doing final preparations on his look in an effort to be as presentable and fashionable as possible, one of the doctrines of the Asigna party members. As he spent two minutes staring at himself at the mirror just to check if he looked good "from all angles", an unexpected visitor came to the room.

With a blink of an eye, a bespectacled man popped on the reflection behind him making Timente jump back in fright.

"Don't do that! Stop popping every now and then!" Timente hissed as the the bespectacled man, Terten, shrugged with an arrogant smug.

"I'm just a hologram Addy."

"What do you want Erin?"

"This anti communist facade is getting tiring don't you think?"

"Yeah so?"

"I still believe in you."

"No you don't. I see disbelief in your eyes." Timente said, shaking his head as he turned back to the mirror to fix his look. "My plan will work....It's the only way the bayan could survive in this crap sack world."

"Don't you think we're kinda side stepping from our true mission here?"

"You're just really excited to become a god. Trust, me, we'll go there, eventually. We just have to expand our defense perimeters before we start phase II." He says, referencing the reason why Timente's foreign policy suddenly took a 180 degree heel face turn from the SJW one which failed horribly.

"Fine, i trust you." The man in hologram sighed. "If you have to kill a billion people just make it quick. The clones can last forever."

"Sige. It's my cue. Go hide now."

The actual debate show

The crowd was very excited to see the host of the show as they all clenched their fists as soon as their little "Novena for the soul of Terten" has ended which was lead by a random pastor from the Iglesia ni Cristo. As soon as Timente entered the room, the crowd went into wild cheers and applause, but they were chanting "Terten! Terten! Terten!" rather than the host's actual name much to Timente's surprise.

But as soon as the audience figured it wasn't Terten, the cheers quickly went into dead awkward silence. The punong felt himself sweat in anxiousness as things are now very clear, he doesn't have the same level of support as the punong who came before him.

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Timente
"Good evening ladies and gentlemen!" The man casually attempted to keep his cheery persona, at least because the script tells him to but the man decides he can't keep this fake facade any longer and decides to let it all out.

"You know what?!" He said in a burst of a loud voice.

"I don't want to be all kindness and smiling anymore!" Timente said as his hand flailed vigorously as he made gestures and his fixed kind smile earlier suddenly turned upside down into a horrible looking frown.

"I approved of this debate not because i wanted you to show how kind i am because i'm not!" If it was possible, a giant question mark would be above the audience's heads as they were very confused at this sudden personality change.

"I want you to see how harsh i can be!" The members of the audience shrank back. "Tama! I am harsh! HARSH AKO!"

The crowd could only wonder where this was going to.

"And to prove to you how harsh i am.... WE'RE GOING TO EMBARRASS US SOME REDS!" And to this, the crowd gave Timente a wild standing ovation.

"PRESENTING THE STUPID CONTESTANTS OF THIS FREAKING DEBATE!" Timente now was so angry to the point his veins were popping in his neck and somehow, the crowd found this hilarious.

"INTRODUCE YOURSELVES YOU FOOLS!!"

As soon as Timente said this, the curtains behind him opened to reveal a very sexy woman posing, it was Faye Kabil, the first of the debaters who marched to the stage with her skimpy outfits which consisted of mini skirts, black school like uniform and knee high boots, one of the many standard issued uniforms for female Asigna party members. She marched unto the front of the stage posing a few times before shuffling to another part of the stage to pose once more as if she were in a fashion show.

"You're not in a fashion show damn it! NOW GET TO THE PODIUM!" Timente commanded. Kabil then scurried to the podium before taking the mic.

"Hello! My name is Faye Kabil and i'm here to beat up some reds!" The audience then gave their applauses before sighs of disbelief arose from some among the crowd who were wearing badges that were labeled CHR. Kabil then reached for the mic once more.

"Whoops! Commission of human rights, i meant... beat up the reds with words." And to this, the CHR members joyfully joined in with the applause.
Last edited by Asigna on Sat Jul 30, 2016 3:57 am, edited 3 times in total.
NS's resident Filipino patriot. May also be that weird Vietnamese guy whose name must not be spoken.

Erian: If you are gay (like me) and looking, PM me. ;/\) (SO I CAN PRAY YOUR SOUL BURNS IN HELL) Kekekekek. No straighty and no wamen. I want no pussycats.

The Filipino dude is a Mangotreestian, yes, he is a believer in the gospel of the mango tree. The one true religion.
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Vulkata II
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Postby Vulkata II » Sat Jul 30, 2016 4:04 am

Adam Appleschwitz
During Faye was introducing herself he thought he should go to his podium, and so he awkwardly walked to his podium not knowing if he was doing what he signed up for right.

Adam applauded with the crowd, he understood what Terten had said but in all honesty he was confused.

He leaned over his mic.

"Excuse me but is this a debate or a shouting tournament? If it's the latter I'm afraid i have to leave" Adam said laughing and then he became more or less serious but grin.

"I'm Adam Appleschwitz, John Yalkovic's junior messenger and if you need to be notified when you're beat I'll tell you" and again Adam was laughing and then waited as for the his other comrades to introduce himself.
It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived. -George Patton

He alone, who owns the youth, gains the future. -Adolf Hitler

Part of the American dream is to live long and die young. Only those Americans who are willing to die for their country are fit to live. -General MacArthur
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Asigna
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Postby Asigna » Sat Jul 30, 2016 4:09 am

"Wait, do you honestly think i'm Terten?" Timente raised a brow, and could not help but feel belittled as people always thought he was Terten. It was pretty obvious that he was Terten's shadow but this was too much to bare for him.

Adriano then wept.

Kabil could only snicker while the audience couldn't help but hold back their laughs and shout "Awwwwwww".

With a single wipe on his shoulder, Timente's expression turned back into a smile. "Hopefully, you can make Vulkata proud. I'm sure Yalkovic is watching you proudly."
NS's resident Filipino patriot. May also be that weird Vietnamese guy whose name must not be spoken.

Erian: If you are gay (like me) and looking, PM me. ;/\) (SO I CAN PRAY YOUR SOUL BURNS IN HELL) Kekekekek. No straighty and no wamen. I want no pussycats.

The Filipino dude is a Mangotreestian, yes, he is a believer in the gospel of the mango tree. The one true religion.
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The Socialist Global Union
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Postby The Socialist Global Union » Sat Jul 30, 2016 4:15 am

Representative Song was not a particularly impressive looking man. Thin and short, wearing a dark suit and glasses, he slowly walked up to the podium bearing his name and assumed his position.

"Thank you, Mr Timente, for your... enthusiastic introduction." He said, a mocking smile on his face. "For those of you who do not me, I am Representative Zhihao Song of the People's Republic of Tianxia."

The crowd booed, clearly caught up in the anticommunist fervour.

"Yes, yes, your reception is not unexpected. In any case, I am here to represent the ideology concocted by the founder of my nation, Xi Jiang. I look forward to proving the superiority of his ideas over those of foreigners."
☭☭The Socialist Union☭☭


The Union is a late PMT/Early FT (with limited FanT) semi-meritocratic autarkic maoist state. Agrarian and Industrial activities are completely automated, and the nation focuses on science, engineering and the war effort.

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Asigna
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Postby Asigna » Sat Jul 30, 2016 4:44 am

The punong then nodded recognizing Song from his repeated appearances in social media where he has tirelessly defended the doctrines of communism. "Ah yes, the man who tirelessly represents the communist ideology in social network through Setsuzoku."

"Now now mga kababayan (my dear countrymen) let us not yet give them our boos until we see the true nature of their.... ideology."

Among the booing crowd of hundreds, there were less than a dozen people who brazenly clapped for Song amidst it all, which were representatives from the Vietnam based communist party of the Philippines who decided to base their party there for fear of "political persecution".

"Hey, not everyone in the bayan hates you my friend." Timente said.

"Hey, to tell you the truth, i would admit that a lot of the bayan hates communism but mostly because it has never ever done so much to defend itself in public. Not many people like social media, especially sites who happen to belong to our enemies."

Timente then turned to the camera.

"So now is your chance gin'ong Song! ...To defend thyself and end the ignorance the masses have for your ideology. Hopefully, if the providence wills it, you will be favored if your arguments are solid."

The crowd shook their heads as they doubt that it will eventually come to that.

"Anyway since we don't have enough time shall we proceed to the opening statements?" Timente proclaimed turning to Kabil.

"A pleasure my punong. The question is, should we proceed to strive for equality or not?" Kabil then reads from a teleprompter which contain the transcript of the government's official reason why they oppose communism.

"No. Simple. Because equality can never be achieved nor is it the natural order. Hierarchy has ALWAYS existed in history of not only man, but even animal. These are the points i would like to emphasize."

As Kabil was reading her speech, Timente was only watching in delight, fidgeting the microphone in his hand before glancing a few times on Song's direction to see how the man was reacting.

"It is a waste of time to do something we can never achieve! It's like attempting to teach a fish how to breathe on open air within a few minutes. To achieve equality means to enforce it and it inhibits the capabilities of man, who have proven to be quite unique from each other with some inherently skilled than the other, with some inherently more deserving of their riches than the other. Plus, to enforce equality means to control every aspect of man, even how he spends the money on his pockets and what he can eat and when he can eat. History has shown that this model is unsustainable for equality means to control and control is often shaken off by humanity's inherent desire for freedom of choice. We cannot have equality in this world for it is simply impossible, not to mention impractical also and a lot of progress built up over the years must be destroyed in order for social strata to be leveled, it's not worth it. If you will give me a choice, tyrannical equality under communism or tyrannical inequality under capitalism. I would choose the latter since in the latter at least in that world, i can have a choice to rise as well! I have a choice to be poor and rich! But in the former, everybody is forced to be poor!"

To this, the audience gave a standing ovation.
NS's resident Filipino patriot. May also be that weird Vietnamese guy whose name must not be spoken.

Erian: If you are gay (like me) and looking, PM me. ;/\) (SO I CAN PRAY YOUR SOUL BURNS IN HELL) Kekekekek. No straighty and no wamen. I want no pussycats.

The Filipino dude is a Mangotreestian, yes, he is a believer in the gospel of the mango tree. The one true religion.
Totalitarian Theocracy
THE GREATER PHILIPPINE BAYAN
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THE HOMELAND TERRITORIES - foreign affairs
Visit our nation! - Asigna TV - Know the Light of Heaven

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The Unified Isles
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Postby The Unified Isles » Sat Jul 30, 2016 4:50 am

"Hahahaha !", laughed Sir Henry at Kabil's remark. "If everyone is poor, how can you know that they are poor ? Wealth is a relative phenomenon, you are only poor relatively to others being rich. If all are equal, than no one is rich, nor is one poor. And in fact, equality doesn't decrease my freedom of choice, it increases it. At least, equal chances do. If we give everyone equal chances, than I have the option to do as I please. Whetever I use them or not is my decision by this point. The problem is that a capitalist system doesn't give equal chances, and a communist system doesn't allow for freedom of choice after equal chances are given. So we have to seek something in between..."

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Asigna
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Postby Asigna » Sat Jul 30, 2016 5:04 am

"That is to say if wealth was to be eliminated from this world." Kabil hunched before smirking.

"But it cannot because wealth, money, economics is part of the systems that had sustained civilization. Those who say otherwise are simply empty headed dreamers who propose the direction of utopia while inadvertently leading us into the canyon of the harsh reality that separates the truth from idealism!"

The audience nods in approval while some are reluctant to even respond to this cruel speech.

"How do you propose we can have a world without having wealth put into equation?" Kabil declares.
NS's resident Filipino patriot. May also be that weird Vietnamese guy whose name must not be spoken.

Erian: If you are gay (like me) and looking, PM me. ;/\) (SO I CAN PRAY YOUR SOUL BURNS IN HELL) Kekekekek. No straighty and no wamen. I want no pussycats.

The Filipino dude is a Mangotreestian, yes, he is a believer in the gospel of the mango tree. The one true religion.
Totalitarian Theocracy
THE GREATER PHILIPPINE BAYAN
Hukbo/Military -
THE HOMELAND TERRITORIES - foreign affairs
Visit our nation! - Asigna TV - Know the Light of Heaven

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Vulkata II
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Postby Vulkata II » Sat Jul 30, 2016 5:10 am

Adam was again confused.

He looked at the papers John gave to him and read the rules.

He the raised his hand.

"Aren't we supposed to wait for the others to tell us their opinions so it can be fair? I'm pretty sure Hatay hasn't said anything yet but of course i didn't made the rules" and then Adam piped down.
It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived. -George Patton

He alone, who owns the youth, gains the future. -Adolf Hitler

Part of the American dream is to live long and die young. Only those Americans who are willing to die for their country are fit to live. -General MacArthur
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Great Tawil wrote:The thing is I hate fighting. I just wanna draw flags and make friends


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Asigna
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Postby Asigna » Sat Jul 30, 2016 5:13 am

"Oh, that applies to individual people." Timente said.

"For example, contestant A can reply to contestant B, but he has to wait for a reply from contestant B before he can spar with the same person again, so while waiting for contestant B, contestant A can answer to C and D and so on. This exchange will end after every member has exceeded 4 pingpongs with each and every other opposing member, we don't treat this as a group, but as battle between individuals."
NS's resident Filipino patriot. May also be that weird Vietnamese guy whose name must not be spoken.

Erian: If you are gay (like me) and looking, PM me. ;/\) (SO I CAN PRAY YOUR SOUL BURNS IN HELL) Kekekekek. No straighty and no wamen. I want no pussycats.

The Filipino dude is a Mangotreestian, yes, he is a believer in the gospel of the mango tree. The one true religion.
Totalitarian Theocracy
THE GREATER PHILIPPINE BAYAN
Hukbo/Military -
THE HOMELAND TERRITORIES - foreign affairs
Visit our nation! - Asigna TV - Know the Light of Heaven

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The Unified Isles
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Postby The Unified Isles » Sat Jul 30, 2016 5:20 am

"What I propose doesn't eliminate wealth. In a world of equal chances, all people just start with a fixed amount of wealth granted by the order-giving miracle called the state. Equal chances are also possible given any amount of money to start with, it just needs to be equally distributed. In fact, considering what you said: How many do they pay you for this ?"

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The Socialist Global Union
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Postby The Socialist Global Union » Sat Jul 30, 2016 5:26 am

Song merely smiled and nodded at the Punong's words.

"Ah, straight to the point I see!" He laughed. "Miss Kabil, you make a valid argument. Inequality is indeed a natural thing. But should we, as humans, allow nature to control us? No, I say. Throughout history, we have fought against nature, bending it to our will, shaping the world as we see fit. Since when has the difficulty of a task stopped us? We are persistent creatures, and do not give up easily. Why should we allow self-indulgence to prevent us from continuing to change nature, this time within our own society. Why should we not strive for a world where everyone is treated equally?

Those that oppose equality are the same people who are at the top of the hierarchy, those who are afraid of others reaching such heights and seek to put down anyone they perceive to be a threat. Should we let such people rule our lives? Or should we fight for a better world?"
☭☭The Socialist Union☭☭


The Union is a late PMT/Early FT (with limited FanT) semi-meritocratic autarkic maoist state. Agrarian and Industrial activities are completely automated, and the nation focuses on science, engineering and the war effort.

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Vulkata II
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Postby Vulkata II » Sat Jul 30, 2016 5:33 am

Adam nodded on Timente's response.

He then turned to the Unified Isle's rep.

"Actually what Kabil said is right" Adam then raised his right hand and flatted it "Even in the bible Jerusalem fell because of problems and they were spared because they were looted of their wealth and not just that but the Byzantine's were stolen out of their wealth and Constantinople because of Justinian's great but expensive dream.

Also if we equally distribute money then the world would probably be a lot and lot more harder sure farmers can get better deals but the price of vegetables are always high in that chances and what about the people who sells incredibly high prices? What about a man who lets say in your scenario happens is too poor of the distributed money he was given but in our world he could pay it easily, i say if we made people do their jobs right they have a bigger paycheck but if they don't, we lower them and so like children if we give rewards to those who actually works then they will work harder but the ones that sit back and relaxes would have a paycheck of a few pennies and a peanut"

He then turned to song, his face said he's neither impressed nor angry on everyone still but his hand was still raised and his palm flattened.

"Actually no that's true, if my history is correct there were lots of assassination because of political fear heck America joined the Vietnam war because of the fear of Communism but if we let people go freely then they'll tear each other apart like dogs and cats it would be chaos but that's a scenario more or less."
It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived. -George Patton

He alone, who owns the youth, gains the future. -Adolf Hitler

Part of the American dream is to live long and die young. Only those Americans who are willing to die for their country are fit to live. -General MacArthur
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Great Tawil wrote:The thing is I hate fighting. I just wanna draw flags and make friends


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Chzeng
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Postby Chzeng » Sat Jul 30, 2016 6:02 am

Myinhsia smiled as the participants pronounced aloud their arguments. She was about to dispense her own in what would be regarded by most as misanthropic vitriol unique to her corner of the world and only surpassed by 'the serpentine of Myaike', whatever that referred to. Some odd offshoot of Yongnyeism with, paradoxically enough, a role model race of mythical serpentine wisemen who were violent in their arguments and short in lifespan as a result of their struggle-oriented ways.

Such was only one of a myriad sources on which the unique and odd aspects of Chzengese social philosophy was built upon, and upon that, its culture. Advanced evolutions, or in the eyes of some, degenerations, of Darwinian philosophy had created a culture that despised the word 'equality' in every method possible. Around it they erected countless social monuments, intellect exams, procedures for the scum of society, shadow rules of their already extremely lethal politics, etc. The Chzengese took it upon themselves to self-accelerate intellectual evolution while the transhumanist fringe researched the counterpart to that in terms of biology without involving overly extensive sterilizations and euthanizations. They refused to yield to what they called social conformity, nature's beast-binding force in a civilized society's vile form, and any ideology which defended it in any form.

Myinhsia spoke.

"One fallacy in Song's argument is that he assumes that humans as a collective are uniform, all the same, all following and meeting qualifications he lists, some very nice sounding qualities on paper he applies to the entirety of the human race. But this is in fact wrong. These traits simply put are not encoded in every human whether it be his intellectual facilities or his genetic print. Every single individual is different. Among these, many do not have the listed qualities, nor are they even close to them. Only a merited few can be able to persist, to fight against nature, while the rest bend to conform, only to be concerned about their next ration of turnip soup. No. It is not the great group as a whole that shapes society and history. It is the merited elite who can guide and shepherd the conformity-minded sheep-like masses to their advantage who shape history."
Denhsze [MT]
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The Socialist Global Union
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Postby The Socialist Global Union » Sat Jul 30, 2016 6:32 am

"Correct, Mr Applescwitz." He smiled. "If we were to eliminate all forms of authority, humanity would devolve into anarchy. But I am not advocating the dissolution of authority, but rather inequality."

"As for you, Miss Myinhsia," He said, turning to face her. "You make an interesting argument. However, I think that there is one flaw, and that is that you have made the same mistake that you accuse me of. You assume that the majority of humanity are mindless, mentally identical sheep, when in fact it is impossible to divide humanity into two groups based in merits. Everyone has a different set of skills, and when they put aside personal goals and work as one to achieve something greater, they do better than any individual can hope to do. The problem with putting the 'merited elite' in positions of power is that they will always compete against one another, and create divisions in the governmental structure which is most inefficient."
☭☭The Socialist Union☭☭


The Union is a late PMT/Early FT (with limited FanT) semi-meritocratic autarkic maoist state. Agrarian and Industrial activities are completely automated, and the nation focuses on science, engineering and the war effort.

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Hatay
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Postby Hatay » Sat Jul 30, 2016 6:50 am

Professor Ghayth Faris stands behind his podium and interjects.
"It is delusional to think that complete economic equality or any other total equality, whether it be social or anything else will be achieved within our lifetimes or our grandchildren's or their children's. But that does not mean we should not strive to make the lives of the less unfortunate better. Despite the fact the total equality is a dream for the future, we should do our part to make sure that the poor do not live in rags and the rich do not live in unimaginable splendor with no one in between. From my view, that is dystopian. Closing to the income inequality gap is necessary, bring it to reasonable levels. Many of the higher classes have worked hard to achieve their wealth. But they should contribute to the rest of society through a graduated income tax to better the lives of the less fortunate through their tax dollars paying for essential programs such as welfare and our NHS. This is called strengthening the middle class, when families are strong, a nation is strong. When the middle class is stable and large, and the gap between rich and poor is not insanely high, the economy will be strong, and the nation will have unity. Total equality may not be possible or necessary, but strengthening the middle class is. The poor will have hope, the middle class will have a future they can believe in, and the rich can produce the products that make a nation what it is."
Long live Democracy!
R.I.P Tuva SSR, Unjustly deleted on 8/30/2014

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Vulkata II
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Postby Vulkata II » Sat Jul 30, 2016 6:56 am

"I agree with Mr Song here and Professor Ghayth Faris" Adam said.

"It's full out discrimination, also yes and because this 'elites' would be elites their brains would more or less wouldn't be elite and lets use Cladius or Tiberius Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus.

He was weak yes but he succeeded Rome and look where it is today, there will always be discrimination in the world and we cannot kill it but we can weaken it so when it's crippled we can take it out and many people would be happy but the problem is, is the fighting. Did not Terten said that and i quote. WE'RE GOING TO EMBARRASS US SOME REDS" Adam then coughed and excused himself and drank a glass of water, after he drank it he then continued.

"Now with Misses Kabil's introduction she stated they were going to beat some reds and i saw some in disbelief before she stated she was going to use swords.

I tell you this if this debate was suppose to be for equality then why did the opening statement of the Bayan full of hate against the Communist? I am not attacking everyone but merely asking a question, if we want for everyone to equal then we need to be equal, equal rights,living conditions of the poor and the middle class and etc. Thank you" Adam then bowed and waited for others responses.
It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived. -George Patton

He alone, who owns the youth, gains the future. -Adolf Hitler

Part of the American dream is to live long and die young. Only those Americans who are willing to die for their country are fit to live. -General MacArthur
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Great Tawil wrote:The thing is I hate fighting. I just wanna draw flags and make friends


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Hatay
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Founded: Mar 22, 2012
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Postby Hatay » Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:02 am

"Mr Applescwitz, I should remind you that Terten is a dead man and Timiente is the current Punong. But as to your earlier statement, Timiente has his opinions and so do you. Hopefully you can rebut his statements with well reasoned arguments rather than shouting. Communism would be a nice system, but is devolves into state capitalism and tyranny. It is impossible and the communist regimes of the world, have always devolved as such. Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Ceaușescu, and Hoxa were all communists, and terrible dictators who ruled via fear and violence. Not all communists may be like that, but it is a system that put simply, cannot and will not work. Liberal and social democratic economics are a better way to seek prosperity."
Long live Democracy!
R.I.P Tuva SSR, Unjustly deleted on 8/30/2014

Back on NS, hello! Feel free to TG. Canon and History is (largely) the same.

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Hatay
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Postby Hatay » Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:10 am

The Professor took a drink and continued his previous statement:
"Ms. Song's proposal does indeed rely on humans being cardboard copies of one another. Each human is different and has different traits and each one a unique personality and mindset. Each man and women should follow their own hopes and dreams, not have them dictated by their government. Each man and women should work for themselves, not for the wishes of a regime that only wishes for the success of the regime. Now obviously, there will be common interests, these laborers in the same field will cooperate and work together to make superior products to their competitors. When there is a system of both co-operation and competition, the economy is successful."
Long live Democracy!
R.I.P Tuva SSR, Unjustly deleted on 8/30/2014

Back on NS, hello! Feel free to TG. Canon and History is (largely) the same.

No Internet July 1-July 16

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Flardania
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5951
Founded: Nov 13, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Flardania » Sat Jul 30, 2016 9:19 am

OOC: Gotta squeeze thoughts of my own from vacation lol
Gam Sol-Mi was listening intently but after deciding there was nothing she exactly wanted to refute, she decided to say what she originally planned to bring up. "There will never be Equality, it is impossible. Sure if you generalize it and say men and women should get equal pay or everyone should get healthcare, it might seem reasonable. However within women their are a host of factors that makes us difference from each other in terms of work potential, emotions, and everything else. To me and the current government of Kirishima the only thing we can do is help provide equal opportunities. Leveling the playing field so that bright minds can develop and one day contribute to the economy regardless of wealth, pedigree, sex, or location." She stated
A Proud FMR. Foreign Minister of the INTERNATIONAL FREEDOM COALITION!
Proud member of the -ALLIANCE OF DEMOCRATIC STATES-



I am a MT Japanese/Korean nation inhabited by Human, Anime(They're also Human), and Secret FanT beings (Northern Wilderness)that perform acts based on MT/PMT Reality

Internationally known as Flardania in English, known domestically as Kirishima in Japanese & French, and domestically as Angaeseom in Korean

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Hatay
Minister
 
Posts: 2786
Founded: Mar 22, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Hatay » Sat Jul 30, 2016 2:57 pm

"The Kirishiman is correct. Leveling the playing field, giving none an advantage based on gender, sexual orientation, birthplace, religion, or race. That is the best we can come towards equality. Full equality, the complete economic and social equality that Marx wrote of and that all those leaders tried to enact through cruel and unjust measures, cannot be achieved."
Long live Democracy!
R.I.P Tuva SSR, Unjustly deleted on 8/30/2014

Back on NS, hello! Feel free to TG. Canon and History is (largely) the same.

No Internet July 1-July 16

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Chzeng
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 192
Founded: Feb 16, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Chzeng » Sat Jul 30, 2016 6:57 pm

Indeed, dispensed vitriol had been met with severe, yet somehow lacking, backlash she had expected. The intellectual's mind remained rational, coldly, as she analyzed the dismemberment of every single one of their pathetic ideology's brazen arguments cast from herd-think. Triumph against egalitarianism was inevitable, eschatological beliefs in the collapse of the liberal democratic order was now a standard must-list of any Chzengese individual's political views, they had fanatically believed in such a collapse even more than Fourinterns, and for a far better reason beyond what was essentially their own counterpart of decay. Struggle is eternal, keeping a lid on the constantly colliding natural order of things will but work for a short while before the jar collapses upon itself.

Also, Myinhsia was thinking about running for President after the conspiracy to get rid of Fyenghsian had succeeded. Eh, she'd have to train her hands on a knife with improved proficiency if she wanted to do that, or a gun if things get messy. Or maybe simply social connections to get access to the secret and highly esoteric class of assassins. But for now preservation of her own...'right', no, 'privilege', nah, just so she could continue doing whatever goes on in her country she'd have to destroy and cut to ribbons the forces of social control.

First was the Tianxia guy. Plot twist Chzeng was nowhere near a Sinic civilization, if Kojiro's bullshit got onto their place they'd be considered Turanic - lack of morals in society when it comes to gaining leadership - and on steroids. Fucking rice-planting peasants.

"Yes, division of humanity into two groups is not rational either. However, inherently, some are better than others in some way or another; here is where social dilution comes in, examinations of intellect and merit picks out those who have the relatively better skills, and cultivate them to make use of their full potential. As for your argument on the so-called 'synergy of the group', I would merely say that in such a case consensus required for their functioning destroys the individual enslaving them under another form of conformity."

Then was the Vulkatan, To be honest Myinhsia was confused quite so over whatever the fuck the islander was saying, but eh the Bahtari bombings probably worsened their capabilities. There was a flash or two of USN atrocities in Vulkata in Chzengese news on some obscure regional channel and she managed to take hold of that information. But no understanding will be granted.

"First of all, the fact that you use 'discrimination' shows that you are still living in the delusion that, all humans are somehow still worth the same value. Secondly, the elite I refer to was that of an objectively and relatively higher intellectual and merit capacity than that of others; one may be socially weak, but if their intellect is still worth something, they are in fact worth of cultivation. And I wouldn't say Claudius did much in the greatness of Rome other than invading Britain.

Discrimination against one's background is, indeed, wrong, for it denies them the opportunity to demonstrate their worth. But when it comes to dilution of the inherently inferior and unneeded from society, it is not 'discrimination', it is quite simply weeding out those who will do nothing in the betterment of the species and civilization."


The Hatayans were staying on economic policy level, hahahaha, but eh then the guy started talking things actually on the level of the mainstream discussion and sid- no, not that synergy bullshit again. Kirishima gal says something agreeable, but not nearly on Chzengese bullshit level.
Denhsze [MT]
--->>> FACTBOOK <<<---

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The Socialist Global Union
Envoy
 
Posts: 302
Founded: Apr 28, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby The Socialist Global Union » Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:24 am

"That is indeed true, and it is important that those with such skills are placed in positions that allow them to excel and serve society." He explained to the Chzengese woman. "A 'free' society that encourages individualism is inherently self-destructive, as individuals force the state to loosen its grip until anarchy reigns and society is destroyed. This is the inevitable fate of liberal nations. Other nations that encourage social darwinism and infighting in order to rise through the ranks are also inherently self-destructive, as people in such a society place themselves before the society as a whole."

"I must say, I am disappointed by your focus on economic matters." He turned to Professor Faris. "It makes you seem depressingly narrow-minded, to only speak of economic equality when we are supposed to be discussing equality as a whole. In any case, your dismissal of economic equality is saddening, and shows a concerning apathy. How do we know it is impossible if we do not try? Should we notary and strive for economic equality?"
☭☭The Socialist Union☭☭


The Union is a late PMT/Early FT (with limited FanT) semi-meritocratic autarkic maoist state. Agrarian and Industrial activities are completely automated, and the nation focuses on science, engineering and the war effort.

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Hatay
Minister
 
Posts: 2786
Founded: Mar 22, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Hatay » Sun Jul 31, 2016 8:02 am

"Full social and economic equality is impossible. Why, because humans will always strive to be better then their counterparts. It is our nature. And no matter how many people you eliminate from the picture, on matter how much propaganda you use to make everyone similar, human nature cannot be sidelined by a government. And there will always be someone on top, someone who manages, someone who accumulates the wealth. It is present in every "communist" society, including yours Ms. Song. There is someone on top in your country, is their not? Someone who commands the party, the army, and eventually, the individual. Attempts at full equality eventually drive everyone to the bottom. The most you can do is level the playing field and strengthen the unfortunate. This comes from a liberal, not a Nihonese."
Long live Democracy!
R.I.P Tuva SSR, Unjustly deleted on 8/30/2014

Back on NS, hello! Feel free to TG. Canon and History is (largely) the same.

No Internet July 1-July 16

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Bolrieg
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7614
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Bolrieg » Sun Jul 31, 2016 3:02 pm

Julipine Kladnov then took the stage.

"While most of the other debaters on this stage seem to be on the right track, I however believe the Communist agenda of "True equality" is nothing more than a ploy to divide a society, to pit the upper, middle and working classes off against each other while the communist leadership scheme and plot on how they will seize power from all of them. Then by the time they realise that they've been taken for idiots, it will then be far too late as they are all shackled together, starved together and tortured together.

Truth is fairness and total equality are different as to achieve a fairer, more prosperous society everyone will cooperate together for the enrichment of the Nation and with a more or less totally free market people can thrive and those who are poor can become extremely rich when they put their minds to it. Mind you while our essentials whether it be defence, law and order and public healthcare is necessary for the Nation to survive as well as a tighter control of the Banks so that they don't finance the communists as in history they have always been behind the reds taking over, there in absolutely NO reason why anything else needs to be messed with by anyone who isn't working in that sector.

Don't believe the garbage that the lunatics and liars concocted for you, for their version of equality will leave a nasty and bitter taste in your mouths."
Last edited by Bolrieg on Sun Jul 31, 2016 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Aterria
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1645
Founded: Jan 21, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Aterria » Sun Jul 31, 2016 3:26 pm

Tall, white haired, but otherwise indistinctive, Phillip Yarrick had served on the Aterrian Communist's national committee for the last 10 years. He was popular with his constituents in the industrial belt of Aterria, and had long fought for a maintenance of the equality the Union's founders had fought for over 100 years ago.

This obviously wasn't the place for a man like him, as the crowd made it obvious that figures like him weren't too appreciated around. Not that that mattered. For now, he would stay quiet, and wait for the moment to speak.

WIP
A large mixed tech / retro empire set in an Earth-like world
Currently undergoing heavy civil unrest
**Based on the old game "battlenations" (now dead), Valkyria Chronicles, Code Geass (Holy Britannian Empire), and lots of other things

IMPERIAL BROADCASTING CENTER No real news as of today

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