by Dagashi Shojo » Tue Jul 26, 2016 2:55 am
by Benuty » Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:11 am
by Dagashi Shojo » Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:06 am
Benuty wrote:I am convinced of Hobbes claim the universe is predetermined, and that God is composed of material matter. Considering I met Hobbes, and know the gods I serve are made of material matter then they were right.
Their claim of souls dying upon death, and being resurrected upon judgment day is found wanting.
by Ifreann » Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:09 am
by Dagashi Shojo » Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:10 am
Ifreann wrote:I love knowledge as much as the next person, but I don't know if I'm in love with knowledge, you know?
by Benuty » Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:06 pm
Dagashi Shojo wrote:Benuty wrote:I am convinced of Hobbes claim the universe is predetermined, and that God is composed of material matter. Considering I met Hobbes, and know the gods I serve are made of material matter then they were right.
Their claim of souls dying upon death, and being resurrected upon judgment day is found wanting.
If God were material, wouldn't it stand to reason he would be observable? Yet we've found no evidence of any sort of deity, especially not a material one who would need to reside somewhere. The idea of the soul "dying" and being resurrected at some point has always been strange to me. Though it might just be due to me having been a former Neoplatonist with Aristotelian and Aquinian influence.
by Conscentia » Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:12 pm
Dagashi Shojo wrote:[...] At the moment, I'm inclined to believe reality is primarily mental, to what extent, I am not sure.
Dagashi Shojo wrote:Where do you fall on the philosophical scale, NSG?
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by Kubra » Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:20 pm
by The New Sea Territory » Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:36 pm
| Ⓐ ☭ | Anarchist Communist | Heideggerian Marxist | Vegetarian | Bisexual | Stirnerite | Slavic/Germanic Pagan | ᚨ ᛟ |
Solntsa Roshcha --- Postmodern Poyltheist
"Christianity had brutally planted the poisoned blade in the healthy, quivering flesh of all humanity; it had goaded a cold wave
of darkness with mystically brutal fury to dim the serene and festive exultation of the dionysian spirit of our pagan ancestors."
-Renzo Novatore, Verso il Nulla Creatore
by Kubra » Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:36 pm
one must imagine Sisyphus bored of itThe New Sea Territory wrote:>inb4 "only real philosophical question is suicide" quote drop
by United Marxist Nations » Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:49 pm
The Kievan People wrote: United Marxist Nations: A prayer for every soul, a plan for every economy and a waifu for every man. Solid.
St. John Chrysostom wrote:A comprehended God is no God.
by Conscentia » Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:51 pm
United Marxist Nations wrote:Morally speaking, I tend to go with divine command theory. I just don't see how there could be a moral system that is correct in the absence of a supreme being that defines right and wrong tbh.
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by United Marxist Nations » Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:53 pm
Conscentia wrote:United Marxist Nations wrote:Morally speaking, I tend to go with divine command theory. I just don't see how there could be a moral system that is correct in the absence of a supreme being that defines right and wrong tbh.
Obedience of divine command is still an arbitrary standard by which to judge the 'correctness' of an action.
The Kievan People wrote: United Marxist Nations: A prayer for every soul, a plan for every economy and a waifu for every man. Solid.
St. John Chrysostom wrote:A comprehended God is no God.
by Conscentia » Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:56 pm
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by Hong Hua » Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:59 pm
by Jumalariik » Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:01 pm
Hong Hua wrote:United Marxist Nations wrote:I don't think so, because I think the presence of said being would make all truth relative to the existence of that being.
Plato's Euthyphro problematizes this. Is an action holy because it is loved by the gods? Or do the gods love it because it is holy?
Frankly I do not see why truth has anything to do with the existence or non-existence of a 'supreme being'.
by United Marxist Nations » Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:02 pm
Conscentia wrote:United Marxist Nations wrote:I don't think so, because I think the presence of said being would make all truth relative to the existence of that being.
An equally arbitrary inverted standard - that God is evil, and it's commands evil - seems just as valid. Just because adherence to the latter standard supposedly ends in hellfire, while the former in salvation doesn't make the former more correct. It just makes it preferable to you.
The Kievan People wrote: United Marxist Nations: A prayer for every soul, a plan for every economy and a waifu for every man. Solid.
St. John Chrysostom wrote:A comprehended God is no God.
by Hong Hua » Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:05 pm
United Marxist Nations wrote:Conscentia wrote:An equally arbitrary inverted standard - that God is evil, and it's commands evil - seems just as valid. Just because adherence to the latter standard supposedly ends in hellfire, while the former in salvation doesn't make the former more correct. It just makes it preferable to you.
I'm not assuming salvation or hellfire in this case. I am simply saying that, because the being exists, that therefore makes reality its domain, and that good can only exist as defined by that being, because all else is defined by that being, including all facts. I would say that denying that the being is good would be like denying gravity. You could do it, but it would be utterly pointless.
by Dagashi Shojo » Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:14 pm
Conscentia wrote:Dagashi Shojo wrote:[...] At the moment, I'm inclined to believe reality is primarily mental, to what extent, I am not sure.
I'm inclined to believe that idealism provides an inferior explanation of the evidence to physicalism.
Am I supposed to believe that I, or humanity collectively, imagined existence to appear as though it's billions of years older than I am/humanity is? And that the apparent physical explanation for human existence, and my personal existence, is just some illusion? Is that really plausible?
by Conscentia » Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:16 pm
United Marxist Nations wrote:Conscentia wrote:An equally arbitrary inverted standard - that God is evil, and it's commands evil - seems just as valid. Just because adherence to the latter standard supposedly ends in hellfire, while the former in salvation doesn't make the former more correct. It just makes it preferable to you.
I'm not assuming salvation or hellfire in this case. I am simply saying that, because the being exists, that therefore makes reality its domain, and that good can only exist as defined by that being, because all else is defined by that being, including all facts. I would say that denying that the being is good would be like denying gravity. You could do it, but it would be utterly pointless.
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by Novsvacro » Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:17 pm
The New Sea Territory wrote:>inb4 "only real philosophical question is suicide" quote drop
by United Marxist Nations » Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:18 pm
Conscentia wrote:United Marxist Nations wrote:I'm not assuming salvation or hellfire in this case. I am simply saying that, because the being exists, that therefore makes reality its domain, and that good can only exist as defined by that being, because all else is defined by that being, including all facts. I would say that denying that the being is good would be like denying gravity. You could do it, but it would be utterly pointless.
Except it wouldn't, because purpose is intrinsically subjective. The maker's intent is irrelevant, as purpose is imparted by the user not the manufacturer.
Analogy: The user may not decide the form of a hammer's head but the user can decide whether to use it to bash nails into surfaces, or as a paper weight or whatever. No particular use is intrinsically correct or incorrect.
The Kievan People wrote: United Marxist Nations: A prayer for every soul, a plan for every economy and a waifu for every man. Solid.
St. John Chrysostom wrote:A comprehended God is no God.
by Novsvacro » Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:20 pm
Dagashi Shojo wrote:Conscentia wrote:I'm inclined to believe that idealism provides an inferior explanation of the evidence to physicalism.
Am I supposed to believe that I, or humanity collectively, imagined existence to appear as though it's billions of years older than I am/humanity is? And that the apparent physical explanation for human existence, and my personal existence, is just some illusion? Is that really plausible?
It's a common misconception that Berkeley believed that existence is imagined, and not all idealists are Berkeleyan (the Transcendental Idealists for instance). What Berkeley denied was that matter was independent of the perceiver. He was one of the first to point out that color is a production of light and not the object in question, and that all the qualities of the object that we associate with it (sensation, shape, etc.) only exist within our perception and nowhere else. To argue for mind-independent material was for the subjective idealists to argue for matter which lacked any and all properties.
Since Berkeley was a fervent Christian who had no objection to Deus-ex-machina, he was content say that God had always existed and the bundle of perceptions is a result of him. One could make the argument that the bundle of perceptions existed before the birth of the mind. Though I've not read enough of him to make a strong case for his philosophy.
by Dagashi Shojo » Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:22 pm
United Marxist Nations wrote:Morally speaking, I tend to go with divine command theory. I just don't see how there could be a moral system that is correct in the absence of a supreme being that defines right and wrong tbh.
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