Paganism as a way to attack Christianity

[A Czecherboard]

Hello Nationstates,

For a while I have seen several self-proclaimed "pagans" on this board, most of which are very liberal, and most of whom constantly attack Christianity, while claim Islam to be a religion of peace.

My message to these people is to stop using the gods of myself and my ancestors to rebel against your conservative parents. It is disrespectful, and makes Paganism look more ridiculous than it already does.

There are many things that these "pagans" believe or want, that are not pagan at all. To make it easier, I have compiled a list of things that no actual pagan would want or believe. If you want or believe any or all of these things, then you are not a true pagan in my eyes. For this list, I will be viewing it from a Norse Pagan perspective, because I am norse, however there are many other forms of paganism originating in Europe.

1. Open borders
Borders were formed for a reason, because certain groups of people don't get along with other groups of people. Opening borders will weaken everyone in the region.
2. Supporting "Syrian Refugees"
You would be laughed out of a room if you suggested that a village take in thousands of foreign refugees, many of which may be a threat to the stability of the region.
3. Feminism
While women were allowed to vote, and a few occasionally went on raids, their first duty was to be housewives. They knew their place, and so should you.
4. White Privilege/White guilt
Suggesting a pagan not be proud of what his people and ancestors had done, whether that be conquering or building great things, would probably get you killed.
5. Pacifism
War was a way of life for pagans all around Europe. They may not have wanted it, but they understood that if it came, they would have to be ready.
6. Multiculturalism
Again, borders existed because certain groups were incompatible with one another.
7. Fat acceptance
An exception would be made if they are or were good warriors, but children who were fat and lazy were children that were useless, and there's no place for that.
8. Weakness
Physical or mental disabilities, or just plain weakness, were, and still are bad things. Most babies who had this were left to die. One exception being Ivar the Boneless, but he was the son of a King, and even then, his father wanted to leave him to die. If you can overcome your disability, then you will be accepted.
9. Homosexuality
Homosexuality was punishable by death in Pagan society. Transgenderism or whatever the fuck you call it was out of the question.

So, if you happen to support any of the things listen above, please do me and any other real pagans a favor, and find another religion to rebel against your parents with. Thanks.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Have you considered people can have political views that have nothing to do with religion?
Oh and you seem to think all pagans are vikings

[Prauria]

Hello Nationstates,

For a while I have seen several self-proclaimed "pagans" on this board, most of which are very liberal, and most of whom constantly attack Christianity, while claim Islam to be a religion of peace.

My message to these people is to stop using the gods of myself and my ancestors to rebel against your conservative parents. It is disrespectful, and makes Paganism look more ridiculous than it already does.

There are many things that these "pagans" believe or want, that are not pagan at all. To make it easier, I have compiled a list of things that no actual pagan would want or believe. If you want or believe any or all of these things, then you are not a true pagan in my eyes. For this list, I will be viewing it from a Norse Pagan perspective, because I am norse, however there are many other forms of paganism originating in Europe.

1. Open borders
Borders were formed for a reason, because certain groups of people don't get along with other groups of people. Opening borders will weaken everyone in the region.
2. Supporting "Syrian Refugees"
You would be laughed out of a room if you suggested that a village take in thousands of foreign refugees, many of which may be a threat to the stability of the region.
3. Feminism
While women were allowed to vote, and a few occasionally went on raids, their first duty was to be housewives. They knew their place, and so should you.
4. White Privilege/White guilt
Suggesting a pagan not be proud of what his people and ancestors had done, whether that be conquering or building great things, would probably get you killed.
5. Pacifism
War was a way of life for pagans all around Europe. They may not have wanted it, but they understood that if it came, they would have to be ready.
6. Multiculturalism
Again, borders existed because certain groups were incompatible with one another.
7. Fat acceptance
An exception would be made if they are or were good warriors, but children who were fat and lazy were children that were useless, and there's no place for that.
8. Weakness
Physical or mental disabilities, or just plain weakness, were, and still are bad things. Most babies who had this were left to die. One exception being Ivar the Boneless, but he was the son of a King, and even then, his father wanted to leave him to die. If you can overcome your disability, then you will be accepted.
9. Homosexuality
Homosexuality was punishable by death in Pagan society. Transgenderism or whatever the fuck you call it was out of the question.

So, if you happen to support any of the things listen above, please do me and any other real pagans a favor, and find another religion to rebel against your parents with. Thanks.

says the Nazi

[Aggicificicerous]

For a while I have seen several self-proclaimed "pagans" on this board, most of which are very liberal, and most of whom constantly attack Christianity, while claim Islam to be a religion of peace.

I doubt that.

[Community Values]

Doesn't the alt-right support paganism to?

If that's true, imagine this. People don't choose paganism because of their political views, it's because they believe in it. Damn, people believe in their religion? What's next, blue skies? Toasters toasting bread? Nazis hating jews?

[The Land Fomerly Known as Ligerplace]

Paganism isn't a religion, it's anything that isn't Abrahamic.

So literally anything that isn't worshiping YHVH is pagan. Which includes things outside of Europe.

And since having a religion doesn't exclude people from having political/social views contrary to that religion, I fail to see the point of this thread.

[Merriwhether]

Being a self-proclaimed or proper Pagan doesn't obligate you to observe 'traditional' prejudices and conservatism of yore. Let's be realistic, freedom of conscience still exists and a person's religion is neither here nor there. That's all I have to say and I'm not debating the point.

[Ithqington]

No, I did not see any pagans in Nationstates before?

Even I join Nationstates just for 2 years now, and I never seen one pagan in this site

[Internationalist Bastard]

No, I did not see any pagans in Nationstates before?

Even I join Nationstates just for 2 years now, and I never seen one pagan in this site

Oh, hi, I'm a pagan

[Community Values]

No, I did not see any pagans in Nationstates before?

Even I join Nationstates just for 2 years now, and I never seen one pagan in this site

OP is a norse pagan, apparently. He's complaining about how all these liberal millennials believe in Thor and Odin.

[The Land Fomerly Known as Ligerplace]

Being a self-proclaimed or proper Pagan doesn't obligate you to observe 'traditional' prejudices and conservatism of yore. Let's be realistic, freedom of conscience still exists and a person's religion is neither here nor there. That's all I have to say and I'm not debating the point.

The only thing that is a true pagan isliterally anyone in a religion that isn't a form of Christianity, Judaism, or Islam.

So this entire thread is a pin-worthy example of a "No True Scotsman" fallacy.

[A Czecherboard]

For this list, I will be viewing it from a Norse Pagan perspective, because I am norse,

Have you considered people can have political views that have nothing to do with religion?
Oh and you seem to think all pagans are vikings

Political views have a lot to do with religion. You'll notice that most of the people who are muslim also support Shariah law.

Doesn't the alt-right support paganism to?

If that's true, imagine this. People don't choose paganism because of their political views, it's because they believe in it. Damn, people believe in their religion? What's next, blue skies? Toasters toasting bread? Nazis hating jews?

Clearly you don't understand paganism. The gods aren't actual gods. They're paragons of certain virtues, Thor for strength and masculinity, Odin for wisdom and honor, Loki for cunning, etc.

The point of this is that the pagans who only say they're pagans to attack or go against Christianity are almost always liberal, despite paganism itself being very right-wing.

[Thyrgga]

Have you considered people can have political views that have nothing to do with religion?
O, And you seem to think all pagans are vikings.

Doesn't the alt-right support paganism too?

If that's true, imagine this. People don't choose paganism because of their political views, it's because they believe in it. Damn, people believe in their religion? What's next, blue skies? Toasters toasting bread? Nazis hating jews?

What does it mean to "have" or "identify with" a religion if one does not believe in its tenets? Why even identify with the religion at that point? That sounds meaningless to me.

[Internationalist Bastard]

For this list, I will be viewing it from a Norse Pagan perspective, because I am norse,

Have you considered people can have political views that have nothing to do with religion?
Oh and you seem to think all pagans are vikings

Political views have a lot to do with religion. You'll notice that most of the people who are muslim also support Shariah law.

Yup. There's also Muslims who are feminists. Gay Catholics. I'm pretty sure most Jews are barely observe their religion. Lots of people have views seperate from their religion

[The Portland Territory]

Hello Nationstates,

For a while I have seen several self-proclaimed "pagans" on this board, most of which are very liberal, and most of whom constantly attack Christianity, while claim Islam to be a religion of peace.

My message to these people is to stop using the gods of myself and my ancestors to rebel against your conservative parents. It is disrespectful, and makes Paganism look more ridiculous than it already does.

There are many things that these "pagans" believe or want, that are not pagan at all. To make it easier, I have compiled a list of things that no actual pagan would want or believe. If you want or believe any or all of these things, then you are not a true pagan in my eyes. For this list, I will be viewing it from a Norse Pagan perspective, because I am norse, however there are many other forms of paganism originating in Europe.

1. Open borders
Borders were formed for a reason, because certain groups of people don't get along with other groups of people. Opening borders will weaken everyone in the region.
2. Supporting "Syrian Refugees"
You would be laughed out of a room if you suggested that a village take in thousands of foreign refugees, many of which may be a threat to the stability of the region.
3. Feminism
While women were allowed to vote, and a few occasionally went on raids, their first duty was to be housewives. They knew their place, and so should you.
4. White Privilege/White guilt
Suggesting a pagan not be proud of what his people and ancestors had done, whether that be conquering or building great things, would probably get you killed.
5. Pacifism
War was a way of life for pagans all around Europe. They may not have wanted it, but they understood that if it came, they would have to be ready.
6. Multiculturalism
Again, borders existed because certain groups were incompatible with one another.
7. Fat acceptance
An exception would be made if they are or were good warriors, but children who were fat and lazy were children that were useless, and there's no place for that.
8. Weakness
Physical or mental disabilities, or just plain weakness, were, and still are bad things. Most babies who had this were left to die. One exception being Ivar the Boneless, but he was the son of a King, and even then, his father wanted to leave him to die. If you can overcome your disability, then you will be accepted.
9. Homosexuality
Homosexuality was punishable by death in Pagan society. Transgenderism or whatever the fuck you call it was out of the question.

So, if you happen to support any of the things listen above, please do me and any other real pagans a favor, and find another religion to rebel against your parents with. Thanks.

says the Nazi

Seig Heil?

[The Land Fomerly Known as Ligerplace]

Have you considered people can have political views that have nothing to do with religion?
O, And you seem to think all pagans are vikings.

Doesn't the alt-right support paganism too?

If that's true, imagine this. People don't choose paganism because of their political views, it's because they believe in it. Damn, people believe in their religion? What's next, blue skies? Toasters toasting bread? Nazis hating jews?

What does it mean to "have" or "identify with" a religion if one does not believe in its tenets? Why even identify with the religion at that point?

Social acceptance, or avoiding death are two pretty big reasons, historically.

[A Czecherboard]

Being a self-proclaimed or proper Pagan doesn't obligate you to observe 'traditional' prejudices and conservatism of yore. Let's be realistic, freedom of conscience still exists and a person's religion is neither here nor there. That's all I have to say and I'm not debating the point.

The only thing that is a true pagan isliterally anyone in a religion that isn't a form of Christianity, Judaism, or Islam.

So this entire thread is a pin-worthy example of a "No True Scotsman" fallacy.

They're not pagans because they believe in that stuff. They're not pagans because they only say they're pagans to attack Christianity. It's like a libertarian voting for republican because he doesn't want a democrat president.

Have you considered people can have political views that have nothing to do with religion?
O, And you seem to think all pagans are vikings.

Doesn't the alt-right support paganism too?

If that's true, imagine this. People don't choose paganism because of their political views, it's because they believe in it. Damn, people believe in their religion? What's next, blue skies? Toasters toasting bread? Nazis hating jews?

What does it mean to "have" or "identify with" a religion if one does not believe in its tenets? Why even identify with the religion at that point?

That's a great question.

[Tulais]

My message to these people is to stop using the gods of myself and my ancestors to rebel against your conservative parents. It is disrespectful, and makes Paganism look more ridiculous than it already does.

Your particular selection of gods that you and your ancestors follow doesn't nearly reflect on the entirety of all religions that would be considered "pagan." If anything, your post appears to be the rantings of ultra-conservatism and being annoyed that some people ascribe to pagan beliefs, but also attempt to reform them to suit the modern world.

Furthermore your ideas of what pagans believe and don't believe is riddled with aggressive reactionist thought and assumes that all pagan faiths are that way, and if you aren't, then you can't be a pagan. Furthermore, religion does not have to necessitate your values and political opinions; there's many out there with just the same "credence" you have to worshiping a pagan faith who aren't reactionists.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Have you considered people can have political views that have nothing to do with religion?
O, And you seem to think all pagans are vikings.

Doesn't the alt-right support paganism too?

If that's true, imagine this. People don't choose paganism because of their political views, it's because they believe in it. Damn, people believe in their religion? What's next, blue skies? Toasters toasting bread? Nazis hating jews?

What does it mean to "have" or "identify with" a religion if one does not believe in its tenets? Why even identify with the religion at that point?

Different viewpoints. Look at the Protestant Christians. Many separated from the Catholics to provide a unique view to it. Hell, one of the key tenants of my religion is that there's a solid chance we're wrong, so listen to other views and beliefs.

[Community Values]

Doesn't the alt-right support paganism to?

If that's true, imagine this. People don't choose paganism because of their political views, it's because they believe in it. Damn, people believe in their religion? What's next, blue skies? Toasters toasting bread? Nazis hating jews?

Clearly you don't understand paganism. The gods aren't actual gods. They're paragons of certain virtues, Thor for strength and masculinity, Odin for wisdom and honor, Loki for cunning, etc.

The point of this is that the pagans who only say they're pagans to attack or go against Christianity are almost always liberal, despite paganism itself being very right-wing.

Christians are very right wing, yet we still have a liberal pope. Islam is very right-wing, yet we still have Gülen. Hindu is very right wing, yet we still have hindi liberals. The same makes sense for any other type of religion, I guess. Furthermore, I doubt that they are only pagan to hate Christianity.

Admittedly, I don't know a lot about paganism, as you've said, so I wouldn't know.

[Arachaea]

Homosexuality wasn't actually punished by death in Pagan Scandinavia. I've done my research and it was allowed, but socially frowned upon to be a bottom.

Can't remember the website per se, I just googled something like 'Vikings and homosexuality'.

[New Grestin]

Fucking hell, this is some edgy shit, said by a Nazi.

If your main issue is teenagers, a group historically known to be generally morons, are using paganism to lash out at Christianity, let me just ask if you can see your Texas from that high horse of yours. Trust me, your "religion" isn't special. Us Atheists have been dealing with this shit ever since it got "hip" to be atheist, even though it's probably one of the more existentially depressing ways of looking at the universe.

Secondly, your apparent need to lump all Paganistic peoples together is a little amusing. Paganism is, to quote it's definition, "a person holding religious beliefs other than those of the main world religions." That's such a fucking general term that you using it to espouse your backwards ass ideaology is skeevy, to say the least.

There were literally thousands of Pre-Abrahamic Pagan Religions, and contrary to whatever this shit is, none of them knew what the fuck "Syria" was, or what White Guilt was. They were all too busy killing, fucking, or kill-fucking each other to actually care, or even know what those things are.

You're applying Modern terms and ideas to groups that were more concerned with appeasing the gods and not dying of Cholera, and it's fucking slimy as shit.

[Internationalist Bastard]

For this list, I will be viewing it from a Norse Pagan perspective, because I am norse,

Have you considered people can have political views that have nothing to do with religion?
Oh and you seem to think all pagans are vikings

Political views have a lot to do with religion. You'll notice that most of the people who are muslim also support Shariah law.

Doesn't the alt-right support paganism to?

If that's true, imagine this. People don't choose paganism because of their political views, it's because they believe in it. Damn, people believe in their religion? What's next, blue skies? Toasters toasting bread? Nazis hating jews?

Clearly you don't understand paganism. The gods aren't actual gods. They're paragons of certain virtues, Thor for strength and masculinity, Odin for wisdom and honor, Loki for cunning, etc.

The point of this is that the pagans who only say they're pagans to attack or go against Christianity are almost always liberal, despite paganism itself being very right-wing.

Again, norse paganism. The Incas believed trans people were holy

[The Land Fomerly Known as Ligerplace]

The only thing that is a true pagan isliterally anyone in a religion that isn't a form of Christianity, Judaism, or Islam.

So this entire thread is a pin-worthy example of a "No True Scotsman" fallacy.

They're not pagans because they believe in that stuff. They're not pagans because they only say they're pagans to attack Christianity. It's like a libertarian voting for republican because he doesn't want a democrat president.

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that certain people are using the pagan label simply as a way to identify themselves as anti-Christian, regardless of the word's proper use?

[Lady Scylla]

Hello Nationstates,

For a while I have seen several self-proclaimed "pagans" on this board, most of which are very liberal, and most of whom constantly attack Christianity, while claim Islam to be a religion of peace.

My message to these people is to stop using the gods of myself and my ancestors to rebel against your conservative parents. It is disrespectful, and makes Paganism look more ridiculous than it already does.

There are many things that these "pagans" believe or want, that are not pagan at all. To make it easier, I have compiled a list of things that no actual pagan would want or believe. If you want or believe any or all of these things, then you are not a true pagan in my eyes. For this list, I will be viewing it from a Norse Pagan perspective, because I am norse, however there are many other forms of paganism originating in Europe.

1. Open borders
Borders were formed for a reason, because certain groups of people don't get along with other groups of people. Opening borders will weaken everyone in the region.
2. Supporting "Syrian Refugees"
You would be laughed out of a room if you suggested that a village take in thousands of foreign refugees, many of which may be a threat to the stability of the region.
3. Feminism
While women were allowed to vote, and a few occasionally went on raids, their first duty was to be housewives. They knew their place, and so should you.
4. White Privilege/White guilt
Suggesting a pagan not be proud of what his people and ancestors had done, whether that be conquering or building great things, would probably get you killed.
5. Pacifism
War was a way of life for pagans all around Europe. They may not have wanted it, but they understood that if it came, they would have to be ready.
6. Multiculturalism
Again, borders existed because certain groups were incompatible with one another.
7. Fat acceptance
An exception would be made if they are or were good warriors, but children who were fat and lazy were children that were useless, and there's no place for that.
8. Weakness
Physical or mental disabilities, or just plain weakness, were, and still are bad things. Most babies who had this were left to die. One exception being Ivar the Boneless, but he was the son of a King, and even then, his father wanted to leave him to die. If you can overcome your disability, then you will be accepted.
9. Homosexuality
Homosexuality was punishable by death in Pagan society. Transgenderism or whatever the fuck you call it was out of the question.

So, if you happen to support any of the things listen above, please do me and any other real pagans a favor, and find another religion to rebel against your parents with. Thanks.

Conservative self-proclaimed Norse pagan making broad generalisations according to their view of the world, and is upset that some things do not conform to said view. What's there to discuss?