[PASSED] Crime and Punishment

[Christian Democrats]

The Most Holy and Grand Empire has abolished the death penalty.

"Then we fail to see how your interpretation is relevant, if your Government does not utilize it in its laws."

We hold other nations to standards.

As interpreted by our nation, capital punishment is disproportionate, unless the person to be executed has committed or was an accessory to an (attempted) unlawful homicide.

Surely your government could not object if a nation executed someone for rape, or treason?

Unless the rape or treasonous act resulted or could have resulted in death, we believe that execution would be condemnable. There is not proportionality between sexual assault and the death penalty, unless the assailant killed or sought to kill the victim.

[SchutteGod]

Surely your government could not object if a nation executed someone for rape, or treason?

"Executions for rape just increase the likelihood that the victim will be killed. That seems like a good reason to object."

Perhaps, in countries where they lack DNA testing, or other means of identifying perpetrators of violence not requiring eyewitness testimony.

[Ovybia]

OOC: No offense but isn't that the same reason I just said in different words?

OOC: I typed significantly more than you did and you ninja'd me by typing with brevity. Now, that you didn't fully think out the implications of both frameworks left it open to attack...

Ok, fair enough. I see that you edited your post to add two more paragraphs, sneaky.

[Excidium Planetis]

snip

Why was this OOC?

I suppose there is an argument there. But in Excidium Planetis not all rape is punishable by death. Certainly not statutory rape, or rape due to the victim being drunk and therefore unable to consent. It would only be violent sexual assaults that would be eligible for execution.

Now, I suppose that the murder rate would go up in response. But, even with rape being a crime of passion and therefore unlikely to be reduced with harsher punishments, the overall rate of rapes would still go down because there would be less repeat offenses. I guess it's a trade off between more deaths and less rapes or more rapes and less deaths.

Perhaps you could attempt to stop this trend by giving swifter executions for murders and years on death row for rape? Would a few more years of life be worth it to not kill your victim?

[Sierra Lyricalia]

Getting victims to report rape, and getting the various elements of the justice system to seriously investigate and prosecute it, and getting a jury to convict all on top of that, is fucking hard enough without bringing the enormous can of worms labeled "capital punishment" into it. Maybe for a repeat offender or a particularly sadistic perpetrator it's a deserved punishment; but it really would be a complicating factor so far outweighing any deterrent value that it's just not worth it.

Then you ask yourself, well, what if the DNA testing lab has procedure or corruption problems? How sure are you, given the number of overturned convictions IRL, that you're actually executing the right person?

My own desire and satisfaction for retribution would sure as shit get a big kick out of sending rapists to the electric chair, but that's not a reason to make that change to a criminal justice system.

[Excidium Planetis]

Getting victims to report rape, and getting the various elements of the justice system to seriously investigate and prosecute it, and getting a jury to convict all on top of that, is fucking hard enough without bringing the enormous can of worms labeled "capital punishment" into it.

IC/OOC?
This actually brings up an interesting point. If a large number of rapes don't go reported, and thus never get prosecuted, or are simply ignored by the justice system, would capital punishment for rape then increase the number of rape prosecutions? After all, apparently all these rapes are then becoming murders as well, and then we don't have to worry about them going unreported because typically people going missing attracts attention and murders are usually investigated more thoroughly than other crimes. So the victims getting killed actually helps them achieve justice, I guess. (Definitely OOC: This is pretty immoral reasoning, but it's something I could see Excidium Planetis buying into.)

Then you ask yourself, well, what if the DNA testing lab has procedure or corruption problems?

That's why DNA testing is automated in Excidium Planetis. A lot of law enforcement is, actually. Computers are just less corrupt and less prone to error (though when they do screw up, its pretty bad).